Quote from Dumpy :

I rather love carving around something like this. (I live about half an hour from that particular park - small, but tons of fun)

Now *that* is a sweet little bowl. I'll be up Portland way in a few years. I noticed Grindline has been busy there abouts. Looks like Dreamland is doing some good work too. I'm going to like it there.

Hey Spook!

My name is Mark Jeangerard - Amatuer Skateboarder (Among other things.)

In 2005 I was sponsored by SinSystems Bearings. (Which are VERY, VERY good.)

When racing I use a Landyachtz R4, Randalls Race Stock, 83mm Flys at whichever duro is working, KHIRO bushings and SinSystems bearings. I'm going to get them shiny JimZ hangers for 2007.

44" FibreFlex, 46" Sector 9 Bomber, 44" Dregs race, with 150mm R2s and Flashbacks, Classics, Flys.... Cruising and ditches.

40" Alva Cadillac with R2 150s and Red Kross Duane Peters wheels for sliding. (What the kids call *drifting* in cars now-a-days.)

36" Alva Cadillac with Grind King Jay Adams and any old wheel that suits the park/pipe/ramp...

Some Skaterbuilt Cone Killers with the odd Fluit truck and 3dm and Chaput wheels. (Radikals next summer? Weeeeee...)

Oh, BTW... did I mention I live a few minutes from Indian School Ditch? (he he he)

Who are you? Where you at?

I'll be in Breck this winter.

Yeah... or something like the Wii... or just good keyboard layout.

Techniques:

• Weight on rear foot - slower, more understeer.
  
• Weight on front foot - faster, more oversteer.
  
• Tuck, hands wrapped tight - faster, less wind.
  
• Tuck, hands or hand out - slower, more wind, or aero turn assist.
  
• Tuck, head up or down - better or reduced aero, able to see over leading riders butt.
  
• Upright, and upright with arms out - massive air braking.
  
• Standing up too quickly or finging one arm out - major upset.
  
• Foot braking
  
• Foot braking with foot on wheel - major upset.
  
• Push starting
  
• Push starting with foot on wheel - major upset.
  
• Leaning and pushing on toes or heals - steering.
  
• Then all of the above with rail grab turns.
  

Yeah... like that.

I thought is was kinda cute. I was entertained for a full 4 minutes by, "What *exactly* is the point to this replay?"

Here's another unnecessary post.

When I use the term "Drift" I ALWAYS mean it in the traditional sense. That other meaning does not exist in my universe.

I can assure you it's racing. The first heats are all about checking out the road. The next ones are about challenging your opponents and your wheels to see how they respond under pressure. The final heats are taking advantage of all you've learned on the day, and pushing yourself to limits you never knew existed.

If you think drifting around corners at 60 mph *this* close to your opponents on a vehicle that's smaller than your shadow is not racing....

Well then...


PS You're talking to the guy who took 8th place in the Professional division at the U.S. Nationals 2005. The only reason I was in 8th was because I read the brackets wrong and was on the side of the road cheering everyone on in what should have been my final heat. Whoops! So, yeah. I know a little bit about racing skateboards and the grip characteristics of polyurethane.

PSS Controller implementation would be heady.

Last edited by Slartibartfast, Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:53.

For all you nay-sayers...
<<Victor
- One of LFS's goals is to be able to simulate anything on wheels.
So I'd say the strength of LFS will lie in versatility and of course quality.
Limitless would be a good keyword >>

Downhill skateboarding is on wheels. Is it not?

hehehehehehehehehe... <cough> eh?

Absolutely, positvely, yes! 1,000 times yes! Great work Eric! And the other two... whoever they are...

This sim is top of the heap. And it looks fantastic!

I just went through and did the Main Hotlap Rank. Boy, that was a lesson. I realized there are some cars I hate. (There are in RL too.) Most of the FWDs drive me buggy. The FXO is ridiculous. illepall That XRT is a real pain to drive.

On the other hand, the FXR was a wonderful surprise. And all the single seaters are terrific. I'm really stoked to go out and find MRT and FO8 races now. What exceptional racing vehicles.

Working fine now

Same message here from S2 Hotlaps/Ranks/p.5

I should be on page 5. When I click any other link visible it works fine, including page 4, page 6, etc. But when I click page 5 I get the page load time out message.

Mozilla 1.7.

Quote from alland44 :

Xfg should be the easiest car to drive, of the RWD`s. I drove it yesterday on Aston north rev - A track I know reasonably. It took me 15 minutes, to beat my own uf1000 pb on that track

FOX is easily the easiest RWD to ease around in. Try this at BLGP.

I was reading some forum, don't remember which, thoroughly fed up with GPL. I hated the lack of immersion in GPL. The aural/visual/controller interface and I simply did not get along. Racing Legends was my only hope.

The conversation went something like this in the forum:

"RL is going to be the greatest ever."

"Sure it looks good, but is it a driving sim? Who's played it?"

"OK. But it looks like it will be the best ever..."

"Anyone can draw pretty pictures. Who's actually *tried* it? Can I try it? I think not."

"Yeah, but just imagine how beautiful the world would be if RL actually existed."

Then someone posted something like this:

"The West's got it all wrong. They're making all this hype but nothing to show. GPL did it right. They posted a video of a sim that was running, then shortly thereafter a demo that you could *actually* drive. Like these guys --->"

And there was a link to LFS. I was off GPL at the very first demo. None of my GPL friends would follow because the thing had virtually no features. But I was hooked.

I am soooo happy the thing has made it this far. It is, in my mind, the only option we have for racing from our office chairs.

@Hyper

Don't toy with us, man! Those would be great features. Sounds right to me. mmmm.... starts and engine damage....

As far as surprises go, LFS has been one of the best surprises of my life. It's been a constant surprise for the last 4(?) years. Non stop giddy up giggle fest. Will be sad in some way if it's ever "completed".

I'm on board with the original post. I kinda noticed it before, but the idea really didn't come forward until Soro mentioned it. LFS does seem more real because it's not the same face or 3 faces in every car. Each driver has their own personality. It has more depth for me. I don't see programmer face one, I see Tweak, or Nick, or DWF. It's very immersive.

There is a beauty that RWDs exhibit that FWDs simply cannot. There is soul in the way they rotate. A Motown funk. A stink, that you either get or don't get. Like Stevie Wonder. He got some stink. No matter how hard they try, others just plain got no stink. The reason RWDs rotate like they do is because you can only ask two wheels to do so much. Braking, steering, *and* accelerating? Pffft! FWD is driving with two wheels. Drive the car. Don't follow it. And when I say drive, I mean put some stink on it. Like the keys in the intro of Superstitious. Lift to get rotation at entry. Squeeze to get rotation at the control phase of the turn. Squeeze more and release, like an orgasm, to exit on the edge of disaster. The corner is not the only one. The lap is not the only one. The entire race is one continuous motion. Unhaltingly grooving with the very fiber of your being. An extention of your true spirit. An expression of the non-linear chaotic state that is nature in all it's glorious unpredictablility. Pure destiny. You cast yourself into it and when the groove is right, the voice comes naturally. It springs forth from the wells of eternity. From the depths of your soul and all souls before you. It manifests as celebration. Glee in moving with the ebb of the universe. It is known by all in it's truth. The beauty of motion. Of flow. Of human recognition in gravity, and our natural instincts to explore and conquer. We master by sheer will. The will of the engineers, the will of gravity, and the will of the driver.

FWD aint got no stink, brudda.

"Very superstitious... writings on the wall... "
Eh ow eh ehh oww ooowadaaa, eh ow eh oh oh OH OH!

With FEELING!

[PS I live in the snow. Once you know how to work it, RWD is soooooo much more effective and safe than FWD. The car will simply do more things to change direction. FWD scares the pickles out of me in all conditions. It simply does not work as a car should. Of course, in the snow, AWD is kinda nice. But still don't got the stink.]

I'd like to stick my nose in here and say that I totally back up separating oval and road stats. I do use the stats from time to time to scope racers on servers I'm thinking about joining. I inevitably end up going, "Cool, this guy will be fun." Then... "Oh... oval racer..."

I think laps done accounts for more than speed. Races finished and won and 2nd and third tells a lot of the story. I like the stats.

I'll also take this opportunity to repeat my pitch for consistency stats. Extracted from all the laps times that are already recorded, a simple average would tell a lot about a driver. Putting oval consistency stats with road consistency stats would make the road stats worthless.

• Hose
  
• Soap
  
• Windex
  
• Paper Towels
  
• Chamois
  
• Armorall
  
• Turtle Wax
  
• Box to carry the stuff in.

When I was in junior high I went around the neighborhood washing cars for 25 bucks a pop. That was in 1977. Two cars washed = LFS S2.

And that's at 1977 prices.

[EDIT] 1977 I was in highschool. Had I been in junior high it would account for why I can't do the math that tells me when I actually *was* in junior high. I have no excuse.

Last edited by Slartibartfast, Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:55.

Some people think that's "racing like a MAN". "I am a strong racer." "I drinve in the spirit of battle." "You are weak!"

bah....

Great ending!

@Hyperactive LSHMNFO!!!!!!!!!!

I think the FO8 is a gas. Much better now and highly underused.

I really don't see the point in any of the FWDs.

I have my pedals against a piece of wood which is against my subwoofer. It gives me an excellent representation of what the engine is doing. Not so much on the tires. However, some small tranducers, like a small pair of headphones, taken apart and built into two separate bracelets might do the trick. So, a stereo speaker system with a sub woofer, headphone bracelet instead of speakers, a roomate to tell you when it's too loud, and off you go.

Also, I'm kinda thinking an added gauge in the F9 view might be sorta easy. Something fed by the forces view, but not so sproingy. Maybe four little bars that go from green to yellow to red...

Just a comment page in the setup screen would be nice. So's we could write things like, "Need to tweak cambers." or "Tires will go 23 laps." or "17 percent fuel for 5 laps."

I use a calculator all the time when tweaking my setups. Since I've lost my physical one, a calculator in the setup screen would be nice.

Man... that is so cool. Thanks for posting that.

Now, when is Scawen going to get off his ass and simulate all those 32,000 parts, hmmm?

Looking at your laps, I have some ideas. Most of them have been mentioned here, so I hope to add more clarity or priority to them. I will start many a sentence with "You're doing this wrong...". Don't take it personally. My intention is to be perfectly impersonal. Factual. Ask anyone who's worked with me on track. I gobble up the "I did this wrong" factoids. Just my style, sorry if it offends.

1. Use the whole track. (I still have trouble with this one, been working on it forever.) Hit your clipping points. Entry, apex, exit. Clip, clip, clip. It gives you larger turning radii, therefore more speed. Your last two laps were starting to get real comfortable. Track camber is usually steepest at the apex. If you can tuck down in there, you can carry more speed and throttle up earlier.
   
2. Whatever headspace you were in on the last two laps, get there earlier. Count sheep. Do practice laps at Silverstone in a BMW M3 in your imagination. Try to remember if you left the stove on... Get out of the tight space. It makes you look too closely in front of you and makes your movements stiff.
   
3. Look very, very far in front of you. If you are looking 6 feet in front of you, the only things you will see are those that are closer than 6 feet. At 100mph 6 feet equates to... uh... lessee... not very many seconds. That's your reaction time, not very many seconds. Should something come up, like a brake marker, turn in point, apex, exit point, other car... etc. you have exactly "not very many" seconds to react. Yer toast. It might be easier to think in terms of how many seconds to look up the road. Look 4 seconds ahead of your position... time scaled to speed, of course.
   
4. Don't steer too much or too little unless you mean to. If you can add more steering lock and the car turns, you aren't going fast enough. If you add more steering lock and the car understeers, you are using too much lock. (Except in the case where you would exit the track with less lock, then you are going too fast or have the wrong line.) Push Your outside hand towards the apex. Note the O'Clock position. In each given turn, on a given line, at a given speed, the perfect amount of lock will be a certain O'Clock position. (Such as 11:00 or 1:15.) That is a good way to guess how much to steer at turn in each time around. If you get off line, miss a marker, or whatever, your brain will do the math very quickly and adjust by 15 minutes or an hour. It really works. When releasing the car from the corner, push with the new outside hand. Steer right with the left hand, left with the right.
   
5. Turning the steering wheel is exactly like stepping on the brakes. Don't turn it unless it benifits you. Release the steering in a continuous motion with additive throttle. Make throttle up and steering release one move in your mind.
   
6. Be very smooth on the throttle, steer, and brakes. Every movement is progressive. Start with a little, add more slowly and then more quickly. Someone watching you will think you are making quick movements. But you know that you are "squeezing" the triggers. Step on the gas like your familiy jewels are underneath the pedal. Gently, slowly, with the slightest noticable movements. That same motion is how you lift off the brake. Off the brake real easy, deeper into the turn, closer to the apex. As you are letting off the brake, match the movement with the throttle pedal going the other way. Trading one for the other, gracefully. Again, one motion in your mind.
   
7. Rotate. Rotate the car with the throttle. Like you do on the left hand part of the chicane, or the right hander in the "S" after the right hander at the end of the straight. Some corners are faster if you are spinning out, but in control. Sometimes it feels like you should lift. Like keeping your foot down is not a good idea. But it is. Kyoto National is a track where you need to keep it down and spin (throttle rotation) the car around almost every corner. Rotating is an exercise in using imperceptable throttle movements. It's kinda tricky to learn, but I've seen you do it. Imagine a certain imaginary turn... If you go 85, no problem. If you go 90, big problems, pushing off track and such. If you go 95, no problem because you're flat and the car is rotating. Gearing is key. Just using RaceS and setting the aero and gearing only for each track will get you a long, long way.
   
8. Don't slow too much for corners. What speed do you take the right after the straight at? 93? Don't slow to 85 at entry. Slow to 90. Remember to trade throttle for brakes.
   
9. Yes. Do let the car go where it wants to. Once you set your steering, do the rest with the throttle, if at all possible. The more you steer and fidget with the pedals, the more time you lose. Remember to release the steering progressively, throttling at the same time. Less resistance, let the car run it's line out.
   
10. Use a neutral setup. If you get in late you can lift and let the car rotate under trailing throttle. If you get in early you can rotate the car under throttle up to exit quicker.
    
11. It's all about exit speed. Use whatever it takes to get the best speed off of corners.

Try this setup. Most people who try it are blown away. It is very grippy and neutral. I use less lock than most. Turn the steering lock up to what you normally use.

People say I am very consistent. It's interesting that we are on Blackwood. I really struggle with it. Normally my lap times would span 3/10ths through the whole performance. But this track kills me. GOOD. I hope to show that using the techniques I've described above, you can turn lap after lap by letting the car go, steering with the throttle, and using progressive movements. Such as I did. Please note that my line is all over the place. I miss markers more regularly than I hit them. Yet my times are still somewhat consistent. That because I keep my foot down, look ahead, and let the car go where it will. I use whatever I have at hand, to make the car get through a bad line. Note my use of understeer as braking.

Later on we can talk about drifting. (Trad.) Where you steer right at the armco at the inside of a turn on a street course, dead collision course, but you are going so fast you just slide by it with one inch to spare....




PS I am always astonished to see what a Clean Racer Stoney is. Love his work.

[edit] I just wanted to add, that all of these things including letting the car go where it wants really helps in traffic consistency. (Just so long as you don't "let" the car go into another car.)

Last edited by Slartibartfast, Mon, 24 Jul 2006 02:45.

Ah... Thank you so much. :-)