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TagForce
S3 licensed
Uhmmm...

I miss the option "Mass Murder Practice".
According to some the only use of video games.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Danica will be at Ganassi next season. At Indy at first, but in 2 years she'll be in NASCAR. The woman can't drive worth anything anyway, so I won't mind her leaving. Leaves room for improvement in de Indy field, probably SeaBass Bourdaisy in her seat after next season. Bobby D. filling her seat at AGR next season, now that there's no more commitment to the idiot grandson, as he's no longer owner/CEO of the series.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Fact: Santa Claus lives on the moon.
The guys in the lunar module told Houston this: "Ground Control, be advised, there really is a Santa Claus."

Santa Claus was the codeword for alien intelligence or UFO's on the surface of the moon. Many broadcasts containing this codeword were captured by amateur radio operators.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from Timdpr :
One question I have is why does the amount of detatched wheels differ so much between F2, F1 and Indycars? They all use the same material as I said, so why are indycars so good at keeping wheels attatched compared to F1, and why is F2 so much worse than F1?

Hope that made sense!

Liking the sig btw Jack

Everybody is forgetting the bleedingly obvious shortcoming of tethers... They are not attached to the wheel. They are attached to the hub, which basically has one wheelnut keeping the wheel on. If any part holding the wheel onto the hub fails, it's goodbye wheel, tethers or not.

The reason some cars are better at keeping the wheels on is simply because the suspensions are much tougher in Indycar (they need to be able to withstand a small impact with a wall), and so is the wheel hub. It is less likely to break off during impact.

I'd say the hubs in F2 can't handle much of an impact at all.

And of course sometimes the tethers just fail and you see wheels with suspensions attached rolling and bouncing across the track.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from TexasLTU :Vatanen please.

Todt is just another old fart, who will ruin Formula 1. From what Mosley said, "he will continue our hard job of 16 years, blah blah". We need something fresh, not that bullshit, what Mosley are doing right now.

But he have less and less chances... Mosley is favoring that shorty with timer (Todt)...

It's funny how we need 'change' to keep everything as it is now... That's what'll happen, anyway, with Vatanen. Nothing at all. Teams get their way, fans will be happy for 2 years, and then F1 stops existing.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Tony George, or Brian France.
TagForce
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Quote from Mustafur :Thats not the point, Why they are not on the confirmed entries list is the real question.

Because the FOTA did NOT sign up unconditionally. They signed up for a season with the 2009 rules + the agreed rules from the Paris meeting in April.

until the 5 teams that signed up unconditionally with the new 2010 rules agree to the FOTA changes, FOTA hasn't officially signed up and have no say in any rulemaking decisions.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from bunder9999 :no wonder half the teams don't want the FIA in control anymore.

FIA does not create the calendar... FOA/FOM does (Bernie), FIA just approves it, just as they do with every other racing schedule in the world.

Quote from Crommi :Factory teams did not oppose budget cuts, just the sum proposed by Mosley and the timeframe. For big teams this would have ment cutting budget down to a quarter which is just not possible in that short time, it's not simple as shutting factory lights one hour earlier. Lots of people will lose their jobs and partnership deals have to be cancelled, getting all that sorted out is not going to be cheap or one day task.

They were offered a cap of $100 million in 2010, and $65 million from 2011 onwards... They refused the offer. Not because it would be impossible for them, but because they wanted their own proposal to be 100% accepted. There's plenty of correspondence between FIA and FOTA on the FIA site to show that.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from Mustafur :Way to support a Completely Stupid budjet cap in the first place idiot.

Suzuka is still there and Honda(who own Suzuka) pulled out last year, is the Irony lost somewhat?

Hosting the Venue there costs Craploads of money, expecially with bernie in charge.

Would you rather a GP2 series with the name F1 or a series which is actually worth of being called Formula one?

How stupid is the budget cap if one of the manufacturers is now pulling their race due to cost cutting?

This is EXACTLY what Max was warning the teams about. The chance that due to decreased profits for major car manufacturers, the F1 teams would not be able to compete at the same level indefinitely, and there would be no new teams to replace those that go belly up.

Listen, this is the situation at the moment:
Car sales are at an absolute low. Major car manufacturers are going belly up around the world, and the magic words for those that haven't yet is "cut costs", and "mass reorganisations".

I ask you 3 questions... The answer to the 3rd one you can derive from the answer to the first 2.

1.) Is there a guarantee that the manufacturers will be in F1 after 2011?
No.

2.) Is there a guarantee that there's somebody who's willing to spend upwards of $100 million a year to be a backmarker in case another teams goes belly up?
No.

3.) Is the continuity of F1 as a class guaranteed without the guarantee that there will be enough teams to have races in 2012?


Is a budget cap really that stupid, if the ultimate goal of it is to change the answer to all 3 of those questions from 'No' to 'Yes'?

Max, with the budget cap, was not thinking of the teams when he proposed the cap, and that is not his job. His job is to think about F1 as a class and do everything needed to guarantee its existence beyond 2011. As such, creating a healthy financial situation at this time should be his top priority. If that means a budget cap, so be it. Another option, which is basically what FOTA proposed but more strict, is to ban every technology thinkable, return to the basic chassis with engines that use carburators, and a simple 6-speed H-pattern shifter/gearbox, and steel brakediscs, with absolutely no testing whatsoever, so that teams are allowed, but unable, to spend anything over 45 million a year on F1.

If I have a choice, then I opt for the budgetcap, and a greater degree of technological freedom so that the SMARTEST team wins, and we see innovations back into F1. Because since manufacturers have entered F1 en-masse there's been a painful lack of innovation. It's all about making things smaller and lighter, instead of smarter and faster.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Is this the same Toyota that was against the budgetcap because the financial crisis wasn't FIA's concern?

Way to prove Max's point, idiots.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from BreadC :ok plz americans i been trying to search nascar sites n that about patrick..

is dale jr really setting up nationwide team and having her in it?

Danica is using every opportunity for rumors to get herself a better Indycar deal. The only place she will go if she doesn't stay in Indycar is F1, and she won't make that.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from Mustafur :Probably more about the Technical side. Touring cars are all made to be equal, in F1 you have to earn your right to be with the top teams with cutting edge design.

Unlike say WRC, this has a Real Constructors Championship.

F1 has a TEAM championship... Not a constructors championship... Big difference. Ferrari don't get points for having another Ferrari powered car win a GP. Much like Ozzie V8s where Team Vodafone is in the lead. Unlike WTCC where different teams do gain points towards their car manufacturer regardless of which team they drive in.

Yes, that is due to the fact that you have to call yourself a 'constructor' when you sign your team up for F1. Nevertheless it's really a team championship.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Bernie and the FIA should put the Lausitzring oval on the calendar... Just to piss the teams off.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from DieKolkrabe :IMO a breakaway series is still a threat

Why? Because the FIA most likely won't let FOTA do whatever they want with the regs, for instance if FOTA went and said 'Oh let's get rid of KERS, downforce, let's ban pitstops', the FIA'd most likely step in.

That'd provide motive for a breakaway series

That depends on how much power the teams get, indeed. They want total and full control, but couldn't get it this time without either looking like complete arseholes, or starting their own series and look like arseholes.

They won the 'max' war... He's out in 2010. All they have to worry about now is who will replace him. I actually hope it's a bigger ass than max ever was. FOTA deserves that for staging this mutiny. In the old days you'd get marooned. These days you get what you want.

The deepest circle of hell is reserved for betrayers and mutineers. I'll be rooting for the new guys and Williams next year.

Having said that. Part 2 of FOTA's plan is to get rid of Bernie, so I'm looking for some controversy in that direction. I fully expect Bernie to become involved in some really juicy scandal and the teams demanding his retirement next.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from Shadowww :Ambient lightning can be done with software rendering too, seriously.

Of course it can... EVERYTHING can be done using software rendering...
Just not if you want anything over 0.001 FPS...

Quote from Shadowww :Well, maybe it affects fps, but not graphics.

If it affects FPS it affects graphics...
In the words of Scawen: "It's a racing simulator, not a screenshot generator".
If it affects FPS to the point a normal rating can't be obtained, it won't be used in the game, hence it affects the graphics.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from Shadowww :DX Version affects _N_O_T_H_I_N_G_. NOTHING.

You couldn't be more wrong...
DX interfaces the games with the hardware. It has support for many features on graphics cards that games would otherwise have to do through software. Hardware acceleration, like the name suggests, makes things go faster, and faster means we can do more fancy stuff...

In other words, you try to use vertex shaders and stuff using DX 1 and get the same FPS you get on DX 10, and then you can come back and act the way you're acting.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from Danke :Forumla Federation Series = FFS
Super Team Formula Union = STFU

Greatest Teams of Formula One = GTFO
TagForce
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Quote from 5haz :IRL was weak at first, but it had the Indy 500

Which has lost all its former significance except for those that do not watch the rest of the season. The Indy 500 gets as many viewers as the worst NASCAR race. Indycar series gets as many viewers in The Netherlands as it does in the US (about 250000).

IRL is still weak, so weak that it will cease to exist after the 2011 centennial Indy 500. The idiot grandson will pull the plug unless it starts to make a profit, which it will never do.

People trying to fix series, that aren't really broken, just for personal gain is what is destroying racing. We've seen it with CART/IRL, and we'll see it with F1 now.

If somebody would turn the BRL into a European series, I bet it can take on the roll of NASCAR in Europe.
[FIA & FOTA] What will happen now?
TagForce
S3 licensed
Out of interest, I thought I'd start this poll to check opinions about what will happen with European Open Wheel Racing now that the FOTA has announced a split.

This is not a poll about what you want to happen, but what you think will actually happen.

Keeping in mind that we've seen a similar event in the US which effectively destroyed American Open Wheel Racing to the point there won't be any big series after the 2011 Indy 500 if Indycar doesn't become profitable before that, what is going to happen here?


I think F1 will remain, simply because the FOTA is doomed to fail when Bernie starts his lawsuit war against them.
TagForce
S3 licensed
You know what I'm wondering? Where the hell is the scirocco... I mean, seriously, it's been 8 and a half years since it was scheduled for release.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from tristancliffe :Unless the lawyer fees are part of the budget cap, in which case they won't be able to afford huge teams of them

Oh, and I'm not a fan of the budget cap idea. If the sponsors are happy to give the teams that much money then they should be allowed to spend it. New teams just have to convince the sponsors...

lol... funny you think sponsors are still willing to come up with in excess of 400 million euro's to fund a team.
The 400 million is almost entirely paid by the manufacturers themselves. Which inevitably leaves the FIA in a very dangerous position (which is exactly why they started the budgetcap deal). The manufacturers throw huge amounts of money at the team but are not accountable for any contract the team has. This means they can decide to quit F1 on a race by race basis. If the manufacturer backs out, there is no way for the team to continue racing, and no way for the FIA to get their guaranteed fee for breach of contract. There is also no way for a new team to fill the gap as no amount of sponsors will give you enough money to compete on this level. Which means the F1 as a series is in serious danger of running out of competitors. FOTA, in all their wisdom, choose to deny this fact stating that there are plenty of teams and there is no urgent need to accomodate new teams, while simultaneously holding off on signing any kind of agreement that would commit them to stay in F1 until at least dec 31st of 2012.

The solution to this mess was really simple. Either play by the rules which all the teams (except Ferrari, in part) accepted last year, which included a budgetcap. Or sign a contract, as manufacturer, to commit yourself to F1 for another 3 seasons, and be done with the budgetcap until then. The manufacturers and teams chose the first option themselves, and are now trying to fight that decision.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from Mustafur :They only get about 35% of the Tv income Bernie gets about 75% thats why they don't agree, they did not say 100% at all they said they want a substantial increase because afterall they are the ones that provide the entertainament.

Reducing such a huge teams spenditure to just 45 mil euro would mean mass lay offs and huge closers, plus the catagory loses its prestige at the same time.

Sure we might be in a ression but from 200 milion to 45 is soo much of a drop to be capped, even williams where using double the money in the early 90s.

Which is why the FIA offered a 100 million cap, which the FOTA declined.
And Carlos Ghosn, CEO of Renault did state that the teams should be given 100% of the TV revenues. But without any guarantees the teams will stay until a new Concorde Agreement has been signed the FIA has no choice but to impose a budget cap. Otherwise the sport would be in danger.


TagForce
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Quote from lizardfolk :Well...this isn't NASCAR, it's "World of Outlaw's" winged sprint cars but NASCAR driver Johnny Benson was hospitalized in serious condition on Sunday from this crash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzuoc94oXhE&feature=fvst

The irony is that his injuries resulting from the crash itself weren't that serious. A broken rib, and some minor bruises. The serious condition he was in (he's expected to make a full recovery) was a result of inhaling the chemicals used in the fire extinguisher that was used to put out the fire in his car. Or so I understand.
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from 5haz :In the crash at Puebla, the car hit the wall 'end on', instead of side on like it should have done if the barrier was placed properly, tbh no roll cage can withstand hitting a wall end on.

For example, Mike Harmon at Bristol a few years back, was unlucky enough to hit the wall at the exact point where there is a small gate to allow access, the gate snapped and so he hit the wall end on, even a car built to full Nascar safety standards was completely ripped to pieces, luckily Mike wasn't hurt, especially after a following car ran into the wreckage.

Michael Waltip at Bristol hit the same wall head on, and also walked away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVlj7F8OJCY

NASCAR has had some lucky breaks in the past, not due to the car being so tough.

Mike Harmon's crash:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuzCc0hBKYE
TagForce
S3 licensed
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :If they declined that, then they are fools. Renault won 2 world championships with a budget close to 100 million euros.

They're not fools, they're just unreliable and want an easy out.
The problem is that the whole budget cap deal could've easily been avoided over half a year ago. The FIA wanted to secure F1 until the end of the proposed Concorde Agreement (31st december 2012), and asked the manufacturers including Fiat for a commitment agreement to stay in F1 until that time after Honda left. If they were positive about committing to F1 until that time, the FIA and FOTA would discuss and sign a new Concorde Agreement that would further strengthen the championship, and the governance of the championship in a way that would please both the FIA and the FOTA.

Repeated requests by the FIA, and Max Mosley to Luca di Montezemolo to secure this commitment from the manufacturers, and repeated promises by Luca di Montezemolo to obtain such commitments have resulted in nothing, not even the parent company of Ferrari (Luca's very own Fiat) seemed to be interested in committing to F1, so the FIA saw no other option than to secure the future of the sports in other ways. The most viable one being a costcap to secure the ability for other teams to join the championship. And then the proverbial sh*t hit the fan.

By this time I firmly believe that, given the latest information released by the FIA, including but not limited to private letters between the lawyer of Ferrari and the Secretary General of the FIA, no matter what happens, no manufacturers want to take part in a 2010 F1 season unless they completely control the series (hence Renaults nice request to be given 100% of the TV income, instead of just 50%). They do not want to commit themselves to F1, and do not want to allow other teams to fill their positions, and use this issue to effectively destroy F1, directing blame at the FIA.

Ferrari will be on the entry list this friday, but I suspect them to not be on the grid. I suspect none of the factory teams to be on the grid in 2010, and that one of the non-factory teams will be absent (brawnGP). I do not believe a spin-off series created by FOTA will be viable, and if there is an intention of starting one, both the FIA and FOM under Bernie Ecclestone will start legal action to postpone this series for at least one year, and maybe even until the current Concorde Agreement with Ferrari ends (in 2013). Until such time Ferrari is bound, contractually, to not run in non-FIA sanctioned classes, regardless of their commitment to F1, Signed per 2005, as part of the extention of the Concord Agreement which includes clauses that gives Ferrari certain rights within F1 as well as obligations. Ferrari's lawyer has at least confirmed that Ferrari has special rights per that agreement, so that would mean they also have obligations per that agreement.

Needless to say that any FOTA series will not be sanctioned by FIA, and would need to be run under their own or some non-FIA directed governance.

The FOTA's demands kept on changing every time the FIA would give them a compromise. At this point it is hopeless, unless the FOTA will back down and remove their conditions from their entry lists. I think by this friday, F1 will have changed drastically, and we need to start learning a lot of new names.
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