Quote from Becky Rose :

Being an internet relay is not a crime, the LFS master server is merely passing on an "email". The point of origin of the skin is the author who uploaded the skin.

Hence the big Napster lawsuit... Hence the taking down of several dozens of torrent sites around europe... Being an internet relay may very well be a crime... In the case of torrent sites, the actual data is not even on the server, it is merely a link to a file containing hashcodes. LFSW is not a relay, simply because the content is monitored. A relay means content is not stored but only relayed to its final destination. LFSW is storing the content long-term.

The point of origin of that collection of mp3s you have on your M3U list is some bloke who got hold of the CDs... That didn't make you any less of a criminal for downloading them in the UK... (I love being dutch)

(being totally unrealistic, but in theory I could package a file into a jpeg of 512x512, that would be untouched by LFSW, which could then be downloaded by a friend of mine on a private server. He could then recreate the original file, and LFSW would in fact become a filesharing hub)

Quote :

One could therefor argue it is the skin author who must adhere to local tobacco advertising legislation.

Yes, and no... Yes, if history proved you right in your statements above... Unfortunately, they haven't, so there's really no argument. Precedent dictates that the downloader is at least partly responsible for the content on his/her PC. In almost every country that every had an internet lawsuit.

Quote from southamptonfc :

What if I had a rear wing with child porn on it?what if I had a rear wing with porn on it?what if I had a rear wing with a pair of t!ts on it?
My point is that legality is not the issue here, its what the writers of the game (hopefully motivated by their customers) think is acceptable. Personally I think it is morally wrong to allow tobacco companies free advertisment in games played by children but that is my opinion.</p>

That would make for some really weird positions on the rear wing...
All jokes aside... Without getting into the legal issues with tobacco advertisements, here's what the devs say on the upload page:

Quote :

DO NOT upload skins which contain offensive images!
If a skin that contains nudity, pornographic, racist or any other extremely offensive content is uploaded, the skin(s) will be removed without notice and you will no longer be allowed to upload skins here.

Now for the moral part... You'd ban tobacco advertisement, but wouldn't mind the devs having huge FOSTER'S/McDonald's/Domino's/Martini billboards around the tracks?

Edit: Reading the devs' statement again I wonder if an image of the prophet muhammed would be considered offensive, while an image of jesus doing stuff with George W. wouldn't (I just watched that southpark episode again, yes) :P

Last edited by TagForce, Tue 9 May 2006, 17:58.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Nope that's not illegal as the internet has no official nationality and case history (in the UK & I understand the US) proves it is the individuals responsibility to ensure that they are receiving legal content, and where they have unwittingly received illegal content do not click through.

Missing the point though, they're not receiving illegal images, they're providing illegal images, which could be illegal in the country the server is hosted.

The internet is not a nation or souvereign country. It is, in effect, bound by the laws of the country in which the nodes reside. For example... It is perfectly legal to download copyrighted movies or music in my country... It is illegal to provide access to copyrighted movies or music in my country. So, I can download, but cannot upload. If I, however, go off shore into international waters, and create an island and declare that a country, and have laws allowing the uploading and downloading of these files. I could, basically, install a server there that downloads every file ever put on the p2p networks legally, and then upload those to my home computer in Holland legally... Nothing wrong with that, and I'm not breaking any laws. In fact, someone did something like that just to bypass country laws (bought up an oil rig in international waters).

Quote from tristancliffe :

What causes people to start in the first place is usually curiosity combined with peer pressure. This can be at any age, from 10 to 80, peer pressure isn't confined to schools.

Actually that's kind of how I got into LFS...
While waiting on RL (anyone remember?) forums, someone spotted LFS, which got me curious... Then more and more people pressured me into trying it... Which I did, and I've been hooked ever since.

First of all...

You are not allowed to overtake when under a yellow flag, not even if you're lapping another car... So the yellow should be visible and the blue should be halted when the yellow is out.

Secondly, the blue flag serves as a warning to a driver that a faster car is behind him and he should let him pass without problems... It is up to the backmarker to choose when and where to do that. The blue flag does not mean "get the heck away from the line now!", but merely means "look in your mirror and watch for a faster car wanting to pass you". Also, being shown a blue flag does not give the faster car the right to pass anywhere he/she would like... It is the right of the backmarker to choose the spot (within reason) and the leader should wait for this moment. Normally, when a car is within overtaking distance (that is, being slowed down because of you being in front of him) you have 3 marshall stalls (flag positions) to let him pass. It usually only takes 1, or 2 at the most to find a good spot.

Quote from Vain :

If it is really forbidden then Scavier are violating the law in distributing these skins online.

Vain

So is *insert random p2p client* violating the law by allowing child pornography to be distributed? Is your provider violating the law by allowing you to access these illegal files? Or are YOU violating the law by turning on auto-skin downloads which may (or may not) result in the downloading of possibly illegal images?

Please, let's stick to racing online and NOT turn this into another MPAA/RIAA versus the big bad internet community.

I have a big problem with governments banning tobacco advertising (which in effect kills only the ones using it) but allowing alcohol advertising (which in effect kills the people that get hit by drunk drivers). It seems that they are more intent on keeping you from killing yourselves, than they are on keeping you from killing others. (oh, btw, standing at a busstop for 10 minutes with an average of 10 cars per minute passing and 2 busses in 10 minutes is worse for your health than smoking 5 cigarettes... Just to put things in perspective).

It's 1000N for the rear wing (3.17.3)...
I never said they were in fact doing anything illegal, but I was merely saying what the other teams are complaining about. The other teams are simply saying that for each 1000N the rearwing cannot deflect more than 1 degree, and Ferrari's wing is... So for 2000N the deflection may be 2 degrees, 3000N 3 degrees etc... That's what the teams say are the rules (or should be the rules), and they think Ferrari's wing deflects more than 1 degree/1000N when there's over 1000N applied.

Side note... I just noticed everyone is talking about the front wing... The discussion with the ferrari wing is in fact about the rear wing, and for that the following rule applies (and is alledgedly broken by Ferrari):

3.17.3 Bodywork may deflect by no more than one degree horizontally when a load of 1000N is applied
simultaneously to its extremities in a rearward direction 780mm above the reference plane and 20mm
forward of the rear wheel centre line.

The other rules on the flexibility of the bodywork are:

3.17 Bodywork flexibility :

3.17.1 Bodywork may deflect no more than 5mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it 700mm
forward of the front wheel centre line and 625mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a
downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram and an adapter 300mm long and 150mm wide. Teams
must supply the latter when such a test is deemed necessary.

3.17.2 Bodywork may deflect no more than 10mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it 450mm
forward of the rear wheel centre line and 650mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a
downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram and an adapter of the same size, Teams must supply the
latter when such a test is deemed necessary.

3.17.4 Bodywork may deflect no more than 5mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it at a point
which lies on the car centre line and 380mm rearward of the front wheel centre line. The load will be
applied in an upward direction using a 50mm diameter ram, teams will be required to supply a suitable
adapter when such a test is deemed necessary.

3.17.5 The uppermost aerofoil element lying behind the rear wheel centre line may deflect no more than 5mm
horizontally when a 500N load is applied horizontally. The load will be applied 800mm above the reference
plane at three separate points which lie on the car centre line and 250mm either side of it. The loads will be
applied in an rearward direction using a suitable 25mm wide adapter which must be supplied by the
relevant team.

3.17.6 The forward-most aerofoil element lying behind the rear wheel centre line and which lies more than 600mm
above the reference plane may deflect no more than 2mm vertically when a 200N load is applied vertically.
The load will be applied in line with the trailing edge of the element at any point across its width. The loads
will be applied using a suitable adapter, supplied by the relevant team, which :
- may be no more than 50mm wide ;
- which extends no more than 10mm forward of the trailing edge ;
- incorporates an 8mm female thread in the underside.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Because every wing of every car flexes, not just Ferrari's.

Yes, of course every wing of every car flexes (although that second animation doesn't show a flexing wing, but the suspension at work)... That's pretty much inherent to the design of the wing supports. Much like an aeroplane wing will flex... The point the other teams are trying to make is that the flexing of the Ferrari wing is done in such a way that the front moves down about 10mm, but the rear comes down 30mm (or so), in effect creating a different wingsetting at high speeds... Whereas the allowed flexing of the wing would be uniform (front and back go down, but equally far).

Someone explain to me why NAT is an ugly hack to an ugly problem?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Okay lets compare racing games. I'll do it in English money (cos it's the best :shy

LFS S3 - £36
Grand Turismo x - £39.99 initially, probably reducing to 29.99 after a few months for each new version they bring out.
GTRx - £30 for each new version they bring out. Assuming one very two years, and two years before LFS is finished, they thats £60
GTLx - £30 a clone of GTR to fleece more money from you
rFactorx - £30 (once you add tax) Another version of rFactor's gravity defining masterpiece
netKar Pro - £25 but it'll still be unplayable online in all likelihood.

So LFS isn't really all that bad. I kind of hope track editors never get released, because it attracts a poorer type of person in my opinion, as well as flooding the community with 8 polygon versions of the 'Ring, including the 100ft kerbs.

Maybe peeps need to look at LFS and the costs differently...
S1, S2, and S3 are *not* seperate entities... You pay for S3, not S1 or S2... However, you have the option of paying a certain percentage of the game (S1 and S2) and that leaves less money to pay for the result. As soon as S2 was released S1 stopped existing! So those that have bought an S1 license should see it as their Symantec (or McAfee) update license ending... Maybe the devs should've made this clearer, and even shut down all the S1 licenses completely at some point. But they don't because they're nice people.

As for the track editors: Yeah, the community would be flooded with 8 poly versions of the ring, unless there's some kind of QA system in place. For every 10 "track creator noobs" there is at least 1 track creator artist, and for every 5 track creator artists there's 1 track creator god. I'd rather have the option of wading through 50 'bad' tracks to find one really good one, than to know I won't be seeing any tracks added at all.

Quote from Kid222 :

last race yesterday i was fighting with fly running on my screen (UFR/ SO town). It was very funny battle,but im better than this little b**ch .) so i win

Just wait till you see that large dark stain right in the middle of the screen in your first race today... That's that same fly having the last laugh :P

Quote from Drakkula :

No....if u r not sure, just scan LFS file with your antivirus, that`s all!!

Sad that your post is the 4th and the first one with a serious answer

No, LFS (if downloaded from liveforspeed.net) is highly unlikely to contain any malicious code (malicious for your comp that is)...

It is however medically proven that LFS does cause serious physical and mental problems. Namely speedmania, social disabilities, insomnia, severe competition insanity, and a bad case of tennis ankle (your right ankle will develop a lot more muscle). Also, if you don't currently own a good set of pedals and/or a wheel your wallet might not enjoy this game, because in the end you will get one, or two, just so you have a reserve one in case of serious pedalitis.

I usually start this conversation with my pitcrew trying to come up with a good strategy for the remainder of the race...
Usually goes like:
"Ok, what my position now, and how are we doing on fuel?"
"..."
"Guys? Could use some feedback here..."
"..."
"Hellooooooo, anybody listening?!"
"..."
"GUYS! ARE WE PITTING LAP 12 OR LA... HOLY SH***!!!" (lots of crackles, uhmphhs and ouches as I roll the car 6 times because I missed the turn)
"..."
"Yeah, I'm ok guys, thanks for asking."

I think we need a radio in LFS...

(in all seriousness, I do adjust the pit orders for fuel and tire strategies, and in the BF1 on Blackwood I move the Brake bias back 8% on the back straight, and 8% forward on the front straight)

Quote from Krane :

After you have watched the video I attached, compare to this Hmmm...


NB: Incase you missed it, my point is how the sound behaves and how far you can hear it - the engine that is. Although I wouldn't mind having cars that sounds like the BRM in the MP3 in LFS

That BRM sounds like a NASCAR V8 at the lower RPMs... But yes, LFS needs a lot of work on the external sounds, and especially how the sound reflects across the land and vegetation.

Quote from bal00 :

Same goes for the GTR's basically. Here's a video of a 700hp 911 race car which should be relatively close to the FZR in terms of noise. All you hear at higher speeds is wind and drivetrain, but you can't really tell where he lifts:
http://www.blinkerfluid.net/vi ... Alzen_996_turbo_700HP.avi
(It's also rather entertaining to watch if you not interested in noise levels, btw)

All I hear when there's wind is clipping... Nothing to do with the volume of the individual sounds.

Quote from Blowtus :

yellow flags are pretty useless at the moment. If you're trying to be competitive the best you can do is just be ready to avoid any drama and not pull any crazy moves.

If they are useless now, they'll stay useless forever... They serve the purpose of telling you you're approaching a problem zone and should take precautions not to run into trouble.

As for the shift-s thing... I HATE it, even on the ovals... It takes away from the reality of racing (just as the oval 'no passing on the outside' rule, wtf are we doing? Racing or parading?)
You spin out, you let the car come to a complete stop, and you wait till the track is clear to either move on or press shift-s... Following cars see the Yellow flag warning, and either go around you, or hit you, in which case it is their own fault, not yours.

Last edited by TagForce, Tue 2 May 2006, 12:07.

Quote from peejayh :

I have retained my old machine and after a servicing by my local friendly computer shop I lost my LFS installation.
Enter stage right my new PC. It has got the full version of LFS and runs great together with the latest patch.
Now I'm thinking of putting a router link between the two machines.
Being a sort of belt and braces man, if one machine breaks down can the one licence stand if I download LFS to the older machine?

Yes, you can install LFS on different machines... You can only go online with one machine at any given time though.
I have an installation on this laptop which is unlocked, only to be able to watch replays and test insim stuff (at a whopping 12fps), and one on my desktop with the same username/pass combo to actually race (at a cool 100+ fps).

Quote from rancid :

It's pretty simple in real life, but the lack of stereo vision really shows when you try and do it in the game.

After a few quick runs, I can do it in about 1min 30seconds

What car?

I did it in 1:07.74, although my instructor would've killed me had I done a handbrake 90 degree left forward parking manouvre in his car

Quote from Shep :

I hate having the leading bracket on the same line as the command, like filur's last if.

It makes no sense to me- it is harder to line up the closing brackets when dealing with bigger blocks of code.

Then again I come from a Pascal background, where the words "begin" and "end" were the brackets.

Yup... The only sure way to learn proper indentation is using pascal
You one of those that when you started using another language the first thing you did was try to set the colors of the IDE to something EXACTLY like the old DOS Pascal IDE? I know I am :P

We need a program that can connect to LFS via Insim, STOP de replay completely, and advance it step by step while capturing each frame from the DirectX canvas and export that to an uncompressed AVI. Much like GPL2Avi... And from what I´ve read on InSim, it is possible.

Quote from Tweaker :

Ermm this should be in the Technical Assistance forum, but anyways....

It might be your sound card, but also make sure you aren't accidentally pressing SHIFT-N, that turns the sound on/off in the game.

Also, if the sound ever cuts out, you might want to press SHIFT-W, that reintialises the sound.

Hope this helps. It might not fix the issue, but you may want to try these keypresses before fiddling with hardware.

Or the bug report forum for that matter, as it´s affecting more people.

On your notes... I doubt he presses shift-N every 4 hours roughly... And he already told us that shift-w reinitialises his sound. It could be some strange Audigy 4 thingy. I have an Audigy 2, and do not experience this problem at all... Although every now and then the soundcard seems to be gone from Device Manager in Windows, which is strange...

So where do we find hundreds and hundreds of monitors showing LFS menus?

the best track would take about 1:30 to drive in the BF1, and have at least 5 corners connected where you´d brake hard from 7th gear to 2nd gear, accelerate while turning to 5th gear, brake hard to 3rd gear for a long sharp sweeping turn that opens up to allow for early throttle and side by side driving, where it ends up in a really tight double chicane which should be 1st or 2nd gear... All through this section your wheel should be turned one way or the other.

THAT is a technical section. AS new configs have some, but the other tracks (or new ones) need them as well.

Oh, and the bigger tracks are boring in the slow cars because the slow cars weren´t meant to drive them. Why do you think there are `cadet´, ´club´, and `GP´ configs?

Quote from richy :

can we make a list of which countries the lorry drivers indicate which way you need to overtake.

im going to take out life insurance if i ever drive there

Yeah, or do like me and get really messed up in the head when you realise he wasn't signalling for YOU to pass, but actually signalling HE was going to pass another truck... Geez, that was a tight squeeze between a truck and the armco.