Quote from Sawyer :

No what I meant. You never get a working CDky for online play. Offline allright they work thats just as good as cracks anyway. But I have never heard of a game which wasnt bugged like STEAM for some time to get it working. Just like LFS. You can crack it for offline but you wont get online with that and without an account. So I say the protection works 99.9% on this one. Just like you cant play CSS on offical servers without an key nowdays.

All the games that have a keygen, and do NOT require a paid subscription to play online, have them. Not all of them work (some may be already used, some may have been excluded), but if you try enough keys, you'll find one that passes the tests. Especially if the key isn't actually used online for verification, then any simple working key works online.

Damn you guys... Now I'm hungry!

Let's hope Intel does this in other countries too, sometime soon.

Quote from Scawen :

For patch S, I changed something in the skin downloading, related to users with the wrong time and date on their computer, forcing other people to repeatedly download skins and the skins not appear. I don't know if that may be related to it. LFS does not download "skins from the future" any more. We'll see I guess.

That could be it, since the symptoms are the same... Just strange that removing the Helmet skins would solve it then.

Quote from Scawen :

I'm just trying to get to a fully stable version without bugs

Oh my, not only are you trying to create the perfect sim...
You're going for the perfect software.

Just a little side-question here...
Has anything changed in the auto skin downloading feature, or is it still prone to mess up when there's a corrupt helmet file somewhere in the skins_x folder?
Since you're on a bugfixing spree, I figured I'd check on this bug that has been known for ages, but was not reproducable.

Quote from spsamsp :

Erm... were talking about in-game credits... not the design team etc. lol

lol... soz... the screenies put me off there :P

You gotta love how the credits screen credits the translators in their own script...
Who of you knows what the cyrillic translator (russian) is called?

Quote from Kajojek(PL) :

How about Norbi?

Wasn't he the one that got into real racing because of LFS? So that's basically the inverse of what I was talking about.
In any case, there are a few real life racers that are online racers too...
I've raced Dale Jr in NR2003, and he was fast enough. It's just that they use real world experience to drive their sim, whereas a regular gamer uses ingame experience to drive.

I'm not saying they can't be both, I'm saying that a real driver running a game would first and foremost use his rl knowledge to be fast, instead of his knowledge of physics engines and their shortcomings.

And I can beat most drivers in LFS too...

Quote from deggis :

But I've read some real rally drivers' impressions about RBR (I can go and find a link to some thread on BMHS.com if someone is interested) and only complain have been always that the cars are too light (mass) and the behaviour on tarmac. Some German rally driver had even a long history with sim games so I'm sure he knows his stuff. I don't think RBR would be so accurate without Richard Burns' immense help with the physics.

Yes... I'm not saying RBR is unrealistic... I was just pointing out that there are flaws in the engine, and they are used by the aliens. RBR is the most realistic rally sim to date (even though I hate the menu system and arcade "unlock the tracks by winning" progression), and if there are rules enforced about not cutting the tracks, I'm sure most real rally drivers would be at the top of the leagues if they entered. Tarmac feels arcady at best. It feels like they had all the surfaces down 2 weeks before release and then went "Yikes! We forgot tarmac! Quickly hack up some values, guys!"

Last edited by TagForce, Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:34.

Quote from Krane :

First LFS needs damage (even slight body damage) affecting performance, creating drag, small damage becoming a larger problem after stress, vibrations, etc. Now all that matters is suspension damage, you can go head on to the wall and have your wing(s) all bent up and you don't suffer any performance loss.

No... For that to work the damage model needs to be finished, and it is far from that. Current damage is simply eyecandy for now. Ever seen a formula car bend a wing like we do? If that would affect performance, that would be totally unrealistic. Wings don't bend, they break (or rather... shatter), so the only performance change would be loss of downforce.

Quote from Kajojek(PL) :

I dont think so. Robert Kubica after few laps in RBR was like a master of that game. Also he won the champonship in Colin Mcrea. I am sure that he doesnt play video games all the time. It has to be in you.

Have you seen the wr times in RBR and watched the replays? If Robert Kubica drives RBR the same way, then he's just another alien on a computer game. But I bet he doesn't and isn't. There's no real life racer that would beat any of the faster guys in a computer game, simply because computer games (and for once I say that includes sims) are not perfect.

A real driver would use his own knowledge of lines and physics to drive as fast as possible, whereas a computer racer would use the lines and physics engine of the game to drive as fast as possible. Any synthed engine has flaws. Granted, LFS is very close to being comparable to real life, but still there are exploits in the engine that makes us go beyond real life fast. Just see how the cars in RBR fly over the tracks. I mean, ever seen a real rally car take a double 90 chicane flat out? No, but in RBR you can because you can jump the whole thing (which would kill you in RL).

Quote from Gunn :

It happens to attract the biggest viewing audiences worldwide, much bigger than any other sport on the planet, so I guess there's a lot more F1 fans than you understand there to be.

Yeah, I've been begging for my local TV stations to broadcast NASCAR live or on tape delay, but apparently they won't try anything that hasn't "proven itself yet". So I'm stuck with F1, as are millions of people outside the US.
Unless of course there is a chauvinistic aspect to it, like they did with Darts when Raymond van Barnevelt won the world championship, or A1GP when Jan Lammers signed up to form a dutch team. So I'm hoping some dutch fellow will win the Daytona 500 someday. Hmmm, maybe that should be me.

And your statement is not entirely true... The World Bowl has the biggest audience worldwide. There's more people watching F1, yes, but no single GP reaches the audiences the World Bowl has each year. Even the Indy 500 and Daytona 500 have bigger audiences if you look at the amount of people that are able to view it at home, and the percentage of people that do.

Quote :

It's also known as the pinnacle of motorsport because of cutting edge development using aerospace technologies, sometimes new developments occur in F1 and are then adopted by the aerospace industry. This is a motorsport where engineers squeeze every possible advantage out of the car, within the designated formula for the sport. New components may appear on any given car on a per-race basis so agressive is the development. F1 is the cutting edge and there are several "races" being fought behind the scenes that add a strategic element to the sport which many casual fans don't see.

Most of the time it's the other way around though. The aerospace techs find new stuff, and the F1 guys use it on their cars. Stuff designed for F1 makes it to roadcars often enough, though. ABS, TCS, EDL, etc etc. For that I salute the F1, and the people running it.
But motorsports isn't about technology, it's about fast cars going round and round on a track until a certain distance or amount of time has passed. Hence why I said it was the pinnacle of fast cars.
Even the FIA thinks F1 is boring, or they wouldn't make all these changes to try and get the cars closer together.

Quote :

If all you see is fast cars going around a track then you don't have a good understanding of F1 and that is probably why you are at odds with the opinions of true fans. F1 may be a little too technical or perhaps intellectual for the average couch potato sports fan to easily digest, but it is rewarding and entertaining once you take all aspects of the competition on board.

Maybe "true fans" are fans for the wrong reasons then.
Once I took all aspects of F1 on board, it instantly became twice as boring, because it truly is not about the best driver. Not even about the best car. And definitely not about the best team. It's a matter of money. He who invests most money makes best technical advancements, and wins title. For years the FIA supported this format, up until last year. And why? Because they saw the sport destroying itself because of Ferrari and McLaren, and the other big teams. Now they wanna make F1 cheaper starting 2008, and look what happens... No less than 22 teams have written up for 2008. We used to have 26 cars on each grid. There were times there was a pre-qual to determine which 26 cars of the 32 available ones would make the actual race. But no, it had to become the Ferrari versus Mercedes versus Renault versus Honda show. We ended up with 18 cars on the grid, if one of the manufacturers was kind enough to give some low team a couple of engines. F1 has stopped being motorsports long ago. And only now does the FIA realise that was a big mistake.

Quote :

In this drive-thru society we live in it's somewhat refreshing to watch something that is complex and not as pre-fab as many other sports can appear to be. I enjoy the struggle between rival team's engineers, managers, pit crews and of course drivers. I enjoy seeing the pit stop and fuel strategies unfold or alter over the course of a race. I respect the difficult task that the drivers have to hold on to these machines at amazing speed and still think and race under strong G-forces while experiencing rediculous levels of heat and vibration.
There are many aspects of F1 racing that I don't get to experience in a series like BTCC and vice versa. They are two different animals living in the same jungle.

BTCC is sprint racing, and yes, they are very different.
Watch a NASCAR/CART/IRL/A1GP/ALMS race sometime... There's team engineers, managers, pit crews, and drivers that battle it out every week. The point is, F1 stopped being about those people a long time ago. Only now are the FIA trying to get them back into the picture.
I would argue that the F1 pit strategies used are childishly simple compared to those of NASCAR.

But hey, you like F1, I don't so much anymore. Let's not get into a huge discussion about it... (oops, too late )

Quote from wE1l :

F1 is generally considered to be the pinnacle of motorsports, or more specifically, of open wheel racing. It's widely accepted, but not everyone thinks so. That's a correction to your like, not really a "correction".

Yes, the problem lies in the fact that it is only accepted by those that actually LIKE F1... I don't particularly dislike it... I just find it boring these days... And it's not just the cars either. There is a lack of interesting tracks apart from a couple of oldies. Every new track that's added to the season is more boring than the last. Where have the days gone that tracks were designed by men drawing possible roads on a height map like in the days of the old Zandvoort circuit, or Mosport, for that matter? These days a computer draws a map for you on a preferably flat piece of land, and voila, another Sepang clone to add to the season.

Quote :

Do you watch this year's formula one? Or did you watch last race at Albert Park in Melbourn? If you claim there's no overtaking after you watched a race or two this season, I would think you're kind of illepall .

Well... I won't get up for it, or stay home for it like I used to. So, no, up until now I haven't seen any GPs. I'll be at my gf tomorrow, so there's a chance I won't see Imola either. And there's a difference between an overtaking manouvre, and racing. If you're behind a slower car, you'll just have to overtake him/her. But the problem with F1 is that there are no equal cars... Even cars of the same team often seem miles apart.

Quote :

The speed and look of the BF1 just totally blew me away, from a driver's point of view this machine is bloody quick and the brake is like hell. Boring? No. Exactly the opposite.

Wet dream would be a dream about sex... Sex is good, and as such a wet dream is something positive I agree with you on this.

Quote :

Not sure, because I am afraid you're gonna miss a lot of fun.

Maybe, but if it takes missing some fun to save me from watching yet another boring F1 race, then so be it. Honestly, I thought it would be awesome to see someone else win GPs instead of MS all the frikkin time. Of course there were the fun parts, such as 6 car races at Indy, but once it became clear that Renault were starting to dominate it became boring very quickly indeed.

And believe me, I am a 100% race fan. Anything that has 4 wheels and goes fast I love. Even F1... If only they would start making the series interesting again, instead of changing the whole thing over and over again without ever fixing anything on the pretence that it will make the series 'cheaper and more exciting'. A1GP did in one season what F1 was unable to do in 2 decades. Look at other series and why people are attracted to them, and implement those things in their own series. I'm talking: Rolling starts, standing starts, p2p buttons, short races, pitstops, caution periods, close racing... Of course A1GP made some mistakes, such as their qualifying system. But as a whole, the A1GP, for me at least, is a winner. And I guess a completely sold out Zandvoort proves I'm not alone.

Quote from Screeny :

just for everybody to understand:

THERE IS TELEMETRY IN LFS!

Just for you to understand... the only way to get the telemetry that's in LFS is outside of LFS... That's not telemetry, that's physics engine parameters... We can then analyse those parameters as if it were telemetry. Ideally, we would be able to take the BF1 for a spin, enter the pit, analyze the telemetry data recorded while driving, make adjustments accordingly, and go drive some more. You don't see actual F1 teams tape the laps of their cars on video first, only to run them back and interpret the images for telemetry data in a studio away from the track, go back to the track, fix the car, and do it all again?
No, they record the actual data that the car collects, and can instantly analyze them. Or if not, they can at least hook the car up to a monitor and get the data from there, without needing to tape it first.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

One problem I found at SO in the BF1 last night, wondered if anyone might know what was up: Braking for T2 (the 90-degree right hander) whenever I shifted into 2nd the rear end locked up. It didn't happen at any of the other 2nd gear corners, just that one, and I tried varying the timing of my downshift but couldn't get it happening. Anyone have any suggestions?

Yeah, turn in in 3rd gear, and downshift in the corner... Not the best thing to do, but it solves the problem of the rears locking up on braking.

Quote from Eddster :

There are some very avid followers of what is the pinnacle of motorsport on this forum. But in any thread to do with Formula 1, for every poster that likes F1, there is another that thinks it is boring and BTCC is much better. illepall

Correction: What is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsports...
It's the pinnacle of fast cars and drivers, yes, but not motorsports.

If anything, the BF1 has shown me just how boring F1 today is, and exactly why it is boring. There's no overtaking, the cars accelerate too quickly and equally with TC, and the brakes are exceptional, so late braking is a matter of inches rather than meters. Although the occasional "terrific move" happens in F1, it's mostly a matter of desperately trying to pass that slower car rather than actual racing.

Mind you, from a driver's point of view, the BF1 is a wet dream for the exact same reasons it's (even in LFS) boring to watch from the sidelines.

So no... I won't get more interested in F1... In fact, I stopped watching the races mostly halfway through last season, and am not inclined to get back to them any time soon.

Quote from ArosaMike :

You're assuming that the TV graphics are 100% reliable though. They're not...they're calculated values done through estimation. It's possible to calculate the revs through analysis of the sounds, so I don't know whether it's done 'on the fly' by the TV system, or whether they just match it to approximated frequencies. You can tell it isn't a real feed as it goes a bit hay-wire sometimes.

None of the F1 teams want to give away the exact rpm figure because of their competitors. I'd say that the LFS revs are relatively accurate.

Ah, but F1 teams sign a contract obligating them to send a telemetry feed to the FIA for broadcasting purposes. The feed you see on TV is actually a low quality telemetry read out from the actual engine status. It goes haywire sometimes because the quality is so low that like in LFS sometimes lag occurs and the feed kinda 'warps' all over the track.

Quote from richo :

We have been given the amazing BMW F1 car which there must have been some serious effort put in to get BMW and Intel brands into LFS ,yet the first thing that happens is "we" reskin the car into BMW,s opponents?

Hardly good advertising for BMW (i realise there must be some technology exchange aswell) I would be pissed if it were my products being rebranded tbh..

that said im hoping someone does a Webber Williams for me

I'd be more than happy to re-paint their car in our team colors as well, just to keep the cars look the same

Quote from Dygear :

Last year at france, in qualifying a Minardi did a nice drft, forgot who the driver was.

Must've been a dutch driver, and you can't really use those as an example of proper driving

Physics have improved in the way the car behaves more predictable while cornering. Braking and turning in is still a bit dodgy, but once your settled in the corner, it's a lot better. I'd even go as far as to say I couldn't enjoy the LX6 in Q, because it was so tail happy, and with S I might consider making it my new favorite car, because now the slides and power oversteer happen when I'd expect them to.

Quote from wistily :

So why does it stay always on after some time ?

Probably because it's set to a button you use for other things?
It's supposed to be on when TC is OFF or actually working.

Quote from mrfell :

easier than i thought!!
good fun though

Just take TC off and try again

55.35

Anyone try the unforgiving FO8 after the BF1 yet?
I swear I can now take at least 3 seconds off the WR... That's how slow it feels!

Quote from xpjames :

What ? U serious ?

About what?
The DDOS part, or the it being a joke part?

Apparently it kinda worked, cos the site was down around 4pm cet.

Quote from TagForce :

I have a proposition to make...
How about we ALL start F5ing the page, AND start our webmonitors to monitor it each second at 13:59 GMT (which is 14:59 BST, and 15:59 CET)?
That way, most likely the LFS page will be down for a DOS attack, Scavier won't be able to upload the patch, and we won't get it till tomorrow.

Deal?

GUYS! THIS WAS A JOKE!

I have a proposition to make...
How about we ALL start F5ing the page, AND start our webmonitors to monitor it each second at 13:59 GMT (which is 14:59 BST, and 15:59 CET)?
That way, most likely the LFS page will be down for a DOS attack, Scavier won't be able to upload the patch, and we won't get it till tomorrow.

Deal?

Quote from Vain :

1. Better singleplayer = more crackers are happy with their crack = less money for devs
2. Better singleplayer = less multiplayer-action = unhappy players = less money for devs
3. More work on AI = less work on physics etc. = unhappy players = less money for devs
4. Take a look at the endurance leagues around. If you don't want a league, look at the ATC 60 lapers.

The AI is good for practicing overtaking. But it's just a preperation for online play.
Yes, I love endurance-racing. But mostly online or offline for practice.

Vain

1. Nonsense... Crackers that are happy with their crack are mostly drivers the devs could do without anyway... And WE definitely could do without them.
2. Nonsense... The fact that the offline racing is better has nothing to do with racing real people online. Experiences are completely different, and would not even compare.
3. True, but not problematic. In the end, S3 will be the best overall experience anyway. Why let the AI be the part that keeps LFS from being the BEST SIMULATOR EVER??? I would like to be able to race the AI whenever I like, and get at least some kind of racing experience from them.

200 laps @ michigan in NR2002 for ESCORS... Took about 3 hours.