Quote from ajp71 :

This is just getting stupid, regardless of what is actually possible it is not done IRL R/C racing due to the danger it presents on a track which actually goes right. Sure if you put Nascar racers in R/C cars they'd bash into each other driving down the straight, but if you went and drove into the back of the average R/C racer he'd tell you to f*** off.

Yes, this is getting stupid, because I will for the 3rd time tell you that not everybody thinks like you... There are plenty of RL racers that do not mind an occasional bumpdraft, as has been proven over and over again in this thread... You keep referring to BD as "bashing into eachother" which it is not.
Only in your mind is BD slamming other cars... I'll go look for that link to that vid...

Here it is... Examples of guys who don't mind bumpdrafting, and one who does mind bumpdrafting. http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=29907#post29907
(it's a 25 minute video so take time watching it)

Quote from tristancliffe :

What on earth are you on about Vacuums. There won't be a vacuum. To get a draft all you need is a situation where the air pressure following a car is lower than the air pressure not following a car.

In an F1 car the air is thrown about, directed upward, eddy currents and vorticies are set up and what have you. All of this helps to create a lower pressure region behind the car.

What the F1 designers try to do is reduce this pressure drop (which they can't do completely), and increase the rate at which the low pressure region recovers - thus not allowing the following car to gain a draft. Add in to that that modern F1 cars are designed to work 'best' in clean, predictable air (like a CFD program can cope with), but loses efficiency in 'dirty', turbulent air, and you have a recipe for low draft, low overtaking situations.

Spouting nonsense about the air going upwards and therefore not creating a vacuum just makes you look silly. And if you look silly, your chances of convincing us that bumpdrafting is used to any great extent in real life are greatly diminshed.

Well, I didn't see a need to get technical and vacuum is what best describes a low pressure area, since there's nothing with less pressure than no pressure at all. No matter what you do with the air around the car, as soon as there is less air directly behind the car than there is elsewhere, that's a partial vacuum and that's a low pressure area... And that's the only way a low pressure area is created... Turbulent air (dirty air) is NOT a low pressure area, it's a variable pressure area... Where air molecules collide there is high pressure, where they've bounced off of eachother there's low pressure. That's why F1 cars are inefficient in dirty air, there's unequal pressure working on the wings and pushing against the car.

That's also how the wings of cars and planes work. Air sticks to a denser object when it flows passed it. So the longer part of a 2 sided wing will have the exact same amount of air stuck to it, over a larger area, which means there's less air in that area than the other side, which is a partial vacuum, which creates a lower pressure, which creates downforce, or lift, respectively. What actually happens is that the air molecules travel a larger distance in the same amount of time, but while it is being used to explain what happens it is totally irrelevant to the creation of lift or downforce. The speed of air molecules has nothing to do with air pressure, only the amount of air molecules in a certain area does.

And F1 designers not only try to create as small a pocket of low pressure as possible so others can't draft them... The smaller the low pressure area behind the car, the more pressure there is at the back of the car, which simply means the lower the drag of the car will be (and the faster it will go).

It's not nonsense Tristan, it's explaining what happens in an easier to understand way than you do. I've only barely managed to keep the damn golfball my teacher loved out of the discussion.

I never said great extend, just a lot more than "only in NASCAR"...
It happens a whole lot more than you guys want to believe... And less than you seem to think I want to prove...

Quote from Ardent :

If you had to produce the energy of the kart with your feet, then it would have a huge effect of course Thats what I wanted to say, both cases are not really comparable.

The only difference is the source of energy... So both cases are pretty much the same. Aerodynamics don't change.

Quote from Gunn :

Lol, it isn't my logic. Like I said, opinions are irrelevant in light of the facts, even mine.

Point 1: We know already that cars with a higher latency will appear to jump around in relation to your car. We know that odd collisions often occur in these cases and they are best avoided.

Which I already said I do avoid.. I don't go around bumping every car on the track.

Quote :

Point 2: We know that many people consider a bump from behind to be disruptive and would prefer no interference. We also know that some racers will take offense to this and act according to their interpretation the action with unpredictable outcomes for all.

That's not the problem of the bumper, but a lack of discipline of the bumpee... So if someone messes up an overtaking manouvre, and pushes me to the outside of the track, that gives me the right to punt him off in retaliation on the next turn?

Quote :

Point 3: We know that in the majority of real life race series that deliberate contact is illegal or of questionable ethics and so is frowned upon.

And that's why there are rulebooks... And if the rulebooks say "no bumpdrafting" then I shall not bumpdraft... No such rulebook exists in LFS, only in the leagues. So in public servers, it's allowed unless otherwise stated. Frowned upon or not. Besides, it's really fun when you find someone you can work with race after race... So what's the big issue? It's all in good fun. Don't agree with BD, let me know, and I might just stop doing it just for you.

Quote :

These three points have nothing to do with my or your opinion. A logical process of deduction after considering these points leads me to suggest:

a: A real potential exists for disruption or accidents during and after a driver takes it upon himself to bumpdraft, whether the leading car is expecting it or not.

b: A real potential exists for conflict and animosity between drivers due to these actions, even if no accident or apparent disruption occurs.

c: Bumpdrafting, or any deliberate contact is not at all common or accepted in the greater world of motor racing, with very few exceptions (some of which seem to be in conflict with themselves and with popular opinion).

Very good points, but not only valid for BD. Forget point C and replace BD with overtaking. Same conclusion. So is overtaking bad? Has nothing to do with BD in itself, but more with the amount of stupid people on servers. Like I said before, there's no harm in BD when done correctly, and when both drivers are in agreement.

As for point C, LFS doesn't represent the "greater world of motor racing", LFS represents "all of motor racing", which includes the part that does think BD is ok. It IS a part of motor racing, and as such it will be done in LFS... Nothing anybody can do about it in public servers with no set rulebook.

Quote :

Weighing up these points and deductions, even with a healthy dose of scepticism, one can arrive at the conclusion that bumpdrafting in LFS is a risky venture which may cause accidents, fights and general on-track mayhem.

Yes, and could make for some really fun races too.

Quote :

I could harp-on on the poor structural integrity of formula car aerodynamic devices, and how an F1 car disturbs the air for up to 100metres behind it as it races along, that the hole it punches in the air is way more then one metre and how oval racing is not by any means a universal example of motor racing behaviour and regulations, but I don't need to because the logical conclusions arrived at previously negate the need for such elaboration.

Disturbing the air, yes, but the vacuum a formula car makes is very small because of the way the air flows around it (1 meter was just exaggerated to show the point, but not far from the truth, watch the spray of rain behind a formula car, it goes straight up... the vacuum (draft) is where there's no spray). Dirty air is not a draft or slipstream. Slipstream is the hole a car creates in the air, sucking the next car towards it. A formula car is designed NOT to do that.

Quote :

So my actual opinion is irrelevant. The facts tell me what I need to know, whether I choose to accept it or not.

But the facts as you represent them are open for interpretation. It's like religion. Everything is presented as being facts, but the only fact is that it is only an opinion on how to interpret the so-called facts that is presented as fact.

Tristan, you forget one thing... Aerodynamically designed vehicles create less of a slipstream than the touring car type cars which aren't... So a formula 1 type car would create a hole about 1 meter long, while a BTCC car would create a hole about 10 meters long. So while an F1 car may have a draft at 130mph, a BTCC car may have a draft at 100km/h.

Tell me what a "worthwhile speed benefit" is, if you would be so kind...

As for it not existing in R/C cars or karts... Watch the vids, and read this quote from a TransAm driver:

Quote :

Stu Hayner: I love running in the Trans-Am Series. Period!

Trans-Am has so many top drivers, beautiful bodywork, and the
right sound and feel for true racing cars. Trans-Am has the best
racing can provide. Trans-Am cars look like real cars (NO sissy
4 door/FWD's here). They sound of hi-performance-American
muscle. The Trans-Am Series race at tracks that turn both ways,
left and right. The drivers are not afraid to rub fenders, bump
draft and take chances. We race on some of the best road
racetracks in the USA and Canada. Mid Ohio, Road America, Lime
Rock 2and Road Atlanta, to name a few. We support the CART
Series at Long Beach, Denver, Rd America, and the Cleveland Grand
Prix. What more could any racing fan want?

Why would he mention Bumpdrafting when it doesn't happen?

(I won't forget not to bumpdraft you)

Last edited by TagForce, Mon 2 Jan 2006, 01:59.

Quote from ajp71 :

^^ I'd call that on an oval, in a kart the speeds are much slower and small amounts of contact are part of the game.

Doesn't matter if it's on an oval or on a tight and twisty circuit like your local kart track... It's a kart, and it's BD, which you said never happened (actually, you didn't, Keiran did, but you agreed)... Do you really think other racers won't take that opportunity when it presents itself (like in BTCC)? There's 2 videos of bumpdrafting in non-NASCAR series in this thread (one RC, one kart), and still you keep saying it doesn't happen anywhere but NASCAR... How much proof do you need?

Quote from Gunn :

Then you don't understand lag. If you bump others unexpectedly then you don't care if they crash. It's just simple logic really, no opinion required.

Have you ever raced me? Because then you'd know your logic doesn't make much sense... I'm probably one of the nicest people on the track. Yes, I make my share of mistakes, but I don't go slamming doors shut that I leave open, nor try to push into holes that do not exist, like some of the aliens I've raced over the years. Why? Because I want the other drivers to finish the race as much as I want myself to.

I understand lag better than most people, since it makes a huge impact on who I'll bump, and who not (ever since NR 4). There's less spike lag in LFS than there was in NR2003S (sudden warping and stuff)... And we used to BD all the time there (ESCORS championships), and it went wrong about as often as it does in the real world (ok, bit more often, but not noticably much more). Out of experience, I can tell you that bumpdrafting is safe enough when you know who to do it with and who not to do it with.

The problem remains that there are too many people BD that have no clue when and how to do it.

Quote from Clownpaint :

Replays need to take up less memory imo, so we don't have to turn every detail to minimum and make lfs a tiny window just to get a decent framerate when making a movie. I'm trying to make a movie at the moment but all the clips I'm using look awful because they are so jumpy.

Replays need to take up more memory, so that every car position is saved every physics frame, so that we can simply step through the replay how we like, forward and back, and render each frame as a still... In NASCAR Racing and Papyrus I used to do 36fps renders of replays at full detail, which would take about 3 seconds per frame to do, but looked absolutely perfect (rendered them at 1280x1024 so I could do them anamorphic DVD quality).

No need to capture at running speed with Fraps that way... No lost frames, and smooth as silk, since you're rendering every frame, one by one.

I'm going to quit trying to prove my point...

Here's a vid of a KART on a long straight bumpdrafting another kart...

First a little nudge, and then when the lead car nods a long ass push (no that's NOT just running really really close) along the huge straightaway...

There is, in my book, absolutely nothing wrong with this kind of bumpdrafting in LFS...
(it's in 2 parts, because 1.95MB on the forum != 1.95MB in windows )

Quote from keiran :

TagForce I really can't be bothered arguing the fact across it is not done in single seaters, it's not done in touring cars, karting, r/c racing.

I'm sure somewhere in the MSA rule book it says contact most be avoided if possible. I really don't think you watch things like BTCC properly and see that they are just running close to each other and not pusing each other along

You go find us some pictures of single seaters bumpdrafting.

Nice read for people who don't think bump drafting is idiotic
http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/ ... cin/archives/10938272.htm
Stright from a Nascar type person to



Keiran

Let's just agree to disagree then At least I know not to do it to you.

Why would I go find you pictures of single seaters BD? I just told you it doesn't happen, and I've only ever seen the 2 idiots in the BMW World Series do it. But to say it's impossible is taking it to the other extreme, because it is possible... Just insane.

As for the Kyle Petty quote... At least you know why he's always hung out to dry on the speedways...

Quote from tristancliffe :

Bumping yes. But not Bumpdrafting.

Bumping on the straights or bumping in turns?
There's plenty of times when 2 or more drivers in BTCC line up behind eachother and push eachother forwards... Especially on the few tracks which have straights... Whether you think so or not, that's bumpdrafting...

Quote from ajp71 :

1. Bumpdrafting is only ever done on ovals, few R/C racers even know what it is.

2. Bumpdrafting is never done in single seaters, dirty air would stop cars coming close, and if they do the damage to the wings would create a very dangerous situation.

3. Touring car drivers do not bumpdraft, they simply hit each other because they are dum idiots.

4. The vast majority of people will be pretty pissed off if you ram them at anywhere other than the oval.

1. Wrong... Don't know where you got that idea, but it's wrong... Watch the video posted in this thread of the Dijon race... That's not an oval, and it is bumpdrafting.

2. Agree, although I did see a couple do it for a couple of laps, and it pretty much worked. Some open wheel cars produce no dirty air, just a big hole in the air, which is exactly what they wanna do in F1. It's still too dangerous to do irl in open wheelers.

3. Yeah, agreed... But the ones that are not dumb idiots bumpdraft and simply say they're dumb idiots... Who's to know?

4. Once again... BD != ramming. It's pushing a car, not ramming it through the soundbarrier. I think you would hardly notice a correct bumpdraft any other way than the revs of the car going up and it feeling a little light on the steering.

Quote from cgrassham :

Got it in one. The BMW cars are built to last and the drivers are young and don't care. I have never seen it used in any other single seater series as its dangerous. I don't believe that its as common as you seem to be making out either, even the BTCC don't use it and thats becoming a bumper car series.

What?? There's tons of BD in BTCC... It's just not as obvious as in LFS... Almost all touring car series has bumpdrafting.

Quote from cgrassham :

Most motorsports I watch never use bumpdrafting, I'd never heard of it until today, and it seems its only used in a tiny number or Motorsports. I mean, F1 is my favourite sport and could you imaging it being used in that? The danger would be immense! same goes for Champcar or the IRL.

I can do nothing but kindly inform you that there are, in fact, several championships that do not involve cars with no roof, huge inverted wings front and back, and wheels that stick out like antennae. There indeed is a reason you don't see it in those classes, although I did watch a BMW World Series race this week (replay) where there actually were 2 drivers who DID bumpdraft... Even I thought they were mental.

Quote from keiran :

It's funny that most of the bumpdrafters in this topic or on oval F08 servers right now What are you going to do when it comes to aero damage in LFS

Keiran

Bump more, because as long as you stay in someone's draft the aero damage doesn't affect you
(not the answer you were looking for, was it? )

Quote from Fonnybone :

(I didn't go through ALL posts...)

I don't find bumpdrafting bad in itself. As long as it's ok with the one being
bumped (it's essential imo), i see it as just another trick to win.
I find it can be a good trick for team races. Having groups of cars
bumpdrafting to catch up to a leader or to help out a teamate. I don't
think it should be used on your competitors though, unless you know
each other well and everyone is ok with it.

The problem is when people 'take liberties' with your car, as someone
wrote so well. Don't come behind me and start bumping me if i don't
wanna. Rest assured you'll see red soon enough ! I'm pretty good at
maintaining control after a rear hit.

I agree with you except with the last part if you meant you'd hit the brakes... As has been said a couple times (read at least page 2, m8) there's no reason to take out a bumpdrafter... You could just tell him to stop. Oh, and in case you didn't catch that part... I'm talking about the people that nudge you gently, not the people that run into you with a 20mph difference in speeds, because I think that's insane as much as you do.

If you didn't mean that:
I agree with you.

Last edited by TagForce, Sun 1 Jan 2006, 03:44.

Happy New Year all... May this year be one of many PBs, WRs, and lots and lots of fun on LFS...

To the devs I'd like to give a very big thank you for S2Alpha, and may this year bring you loads of happy and supporting racers, a lot of breakthroughs in the game development, and of course all the joy and happiness you could ever hope for. Keep it up guys.

Quote from Vain :

Wrecking is also a strategy to WIN RACES. Yet, just because you win because you shove everyone off the track, wrecking isn't a good thing. The same goes for bumpdrafting.

Vain

Wrecking is a strategy to finish alone... Not in first. There is a difference between punting cars into the wall, and pushing a car to gain speed. In the first, the other car doesn't finish, in the latter everyone finishes, but not necessarily in the order of speeds on hotlaps.

For now, let's just agree to disagree, because we're not ever going to agree on this subject on this forum.

Valkyrie: Read my explanation of BD a bit higher up in the thread... BD is ALL about winning... The fact that it's also the best way to get a low pb has nothing to do with the practice of BD... At least not with people who know what they're doing. The only reason the pb times are mentioned is to show you how much of an advantage it can have...

Vain: Unfortunately for you, in most national touring car series it is NOT forbidden. However, the person doing the bumpdrafting will be held responsible (and possibly be penalized) for any crashes that are a result of it. Online as well as in real life it is a risk you take, but when executed properly the benefits for both drivers involved may well outweigh the risks.
How is it not fair to the other drivers? Isn't racing about finishing first? If bumpdrafting helps drivers gain on the leader, then it's not their fault that they (unlike the other drivers who don't BD) go faster. If you don't like the practice of BD, fine, don't do it. But either start doing it yourself, or quit bitchin' about it being cheating while it's just another form of strategy that you can (and should) use to WIN RACES. Seriously, don't do it if you don't want to, but accept the fact that 2 guys who are BD and beat you didn't do so by cheating, but by working together.

Too bloody much time on your hands!

But thank you sooo much for the movies! They are absolutely marvelous!
Great job!

Quote from Valkyrie :

ok i normaly keep quite but bumpdrafting is just silly but it happens most of the "bumpdrafting" in rw happens on ovals in cars like nascar's mainly saloon racing car's not F1 or indy and they don't bump not if they can help it its just good use of the draft
Using the draft from the car in front is a good technique for overtaking at the end of a straight (before the corner) or on a oval you will traveling much faster then the guy in front and if you time it right you will get round quicker than bumpdrafting anyday. If someone bumpdrafts me all i do is change postion on the track before the corner and let them past if there paying attention that is other wise they miss there braking point and fly off. Any contact in a racing car is not good it screws up the dynamics of your car and damages there's which is not a good idea and there is always a risk of sending both cars off.

And again you fail to see the point of BD...
I can tell you that the normal drafting method does in fact NOT get you around the track faster. Since after one straight (we're talking oval here) you lose the draft completely and don't get it back until the straight after you've been drafted. The trick is to end up really close to the car in front, and gently nudging into his rear so as not to upset his car, and then just push him forward gently. When I bump you I don't want to pass you, I want you to hold your perfect line through all the corners... I can see where you're at, so I can get out of your draft and take the corner on a higher line... Then on corner exit I can get onto your gearbox again and bump you along the next straight, etc... This method is faster than passing all the time (although on the oval that is still faster than a single car can go).

Quote from wheel4hummer :

Is that so?
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3605/camaro8dp.jpg

Beamer just setting the Cam up for a bumpdraft there :P (kidding)

Quote from Ardent :

by just logically thinking this over, if you pick a slower car for bumpdrafting, this car will be in front when you arrive at the twisty section and will then slow you down greatly while the faster car you want to catch up to will just drive away.
I also cannot imagine you can use this for overtaking because you first have to pass the car you are bumping and then go one on one with the faster car. That will never work (except oval maybe).

Also you are falsly asuming that others have to inform you that they don't want to get raped from behind. It's the other way round, if you wanna bump someone you are to make sure that the other driver is informed before you do that (just as you cannot just bump any girl in RL from behind without asking).

Really, by just thinking over it, I would deny the big benefit of bumpdrafting on any track but the oval. On the oval everyone is equally fast and expects bumpdrafting as it seems, that is ok then. Please show me a replay where you beat a better driver because of bumpdrafting on a regular track (no oval).

I think you're missing the point of bumpdrafting here...
When 2 racers decide to bumpdraft, they actually agree not to overtake eachother and fight for position. Fighting for position slows you down, and when the 2nd and 3rd place drivers want to catch up to the leader, they need to have some form of cooperation going on. In general, the driver that is the fastest through the turns will get 'the point' in a bumpdraft deal. This driver will be 2nd, and will lead the slower driver through the turns, guiding him over the best line (it's easier to navigate when you have a close focal point in front of you), and the following car will in turn push the lead car to higher speeds on the straights... Until there's a pack of 3, there is absolutely no overtaking happening. Once the leader's been caught, all hell breaks loose and the overtaking commences.

As for the "who's to inform who" question... In real racing, it is the lead car that has the capabilities of signing to the following cars, since they can clearly see him in his car. So that's where the responsibility of you telling me not to bump you comes from. Just because I am able to tell you what I'm going to do from behind, doesn't mean that SHOULD be what happens, nor does it mean it happens like that in real life... I could agree with you on changing the signing responsibility to the following car, though. Just that I've always learned that the front runner is the only one that can sign to the back, unless both drivers know there's going to be comms.

As for the replay... We'll meet on the tracks one of these days, and I'll show you (not on you, but on some willing racer) what the difference in laptimes can be. If you want a quick look, there's a link to a video posted in this thread that shows just how much of an advantage bumpdrafting can have over normal drafting, and also how the driver of the car in the video tells the following car he doesn't want to be bumped. (to save you about 25 mins of LX racing: The cam-car drafts 2 other cars and gains quickly, then gets out of the draft to pass, and halfway passed the first car he's slowed down by having the wind in his face, and ends up where he started.)

Quote from Jakq :

im ok with bump-drafting on the long staights (and i mean straights, not mildly curved ones!) and the oval (when will people learn about the effects on down force when in draft and there fore you should never draft on a corner!), again, only on the straight, plus you must give warning and ask first, you never know, my car may be in a bad way with the suspension and tires , secondly, if i am given warning, i can line myself up, and therefore will not go crash if you touch me, personally, i think that you can get much better advantages from drafting past each other, much more fun, like i said before, drafting happens, and in LFS race to be the ultimate simulator, drafting will still work. for example, even a newbie can draft/can be drafted, where as if a newbie tries bumpdrafting on the start/finish straight, on the corner, they touch your wheel and your out! where as, you can pull out of the draft and uses the other foot for a change!

It all depends on what you want to accomplish with the draft... If I want to pass someone I'm not going to bump him, simply because every mph he gains makes it harder for me to pass... However, bumping someone might negate the effect of the 3rd car that tries to pass me by drafting me in the normal way, because he will be in full air, and we are 2 cars as one, gaining speed. It also might help you to make up that 3 seconds the leader has on you 2, which simply wouldn't work in the normal way.


I'll try to find a good racer that will allow me to demonstrate bumpdrafting on Blackwood.

EDIT:
I agree there are too many noobs bumpdrafting on Blackwood that scare even me... Word of advice to people who've just started racing in LFS... Don't bumpdraft until you are able to match the speed of the car in front of you every time, without touching him or feathering the throttle... Then, and ONLY then, you may think about bumpdrafting him. And only on the long straights, and only until 200 meters before the next braking point. Trust me, the first couple of months you race, you should never, under any circumstance, bump another car for speed.

Last edited by TagForce, Sat 31 Dec 2005, 00:05.

What are we talking about here?

Bumpdrafting, or the noobish slamming someone to go faster?

I've been known to bumpdraft on long straights in any car except the formulas... But my bumpdrafting is NEVER about ramming someone into going faster... I've never caused any car to fly off into the sunset, nor even get upset by my touching... The end result should always be two engines pushing two cars forward through half the air it normally takes.

And you should always let up early when your bumpdrafting someone... Your going faster than normal, so you should brake earlier... And you should give the lead car plenty of room to do his/her braking.

About not bumpdrafting in formula cars... That's just plain wrong, it DOES happen... Just not that often because basically the cars are built in a way that passing someone in a regular draft who passes you in another regular draft, etc, has more advantage. Yes, the nose is less forgiving when it comes to touching, but trust me when I say that the carbonfibre nosecones on IRL cars are a LOT harder to break than the steelplating/steel grilleplate on a NASCAR nose. It's just that the Formula cars need to be bumped with more precision so as not to ruin the lead cars gearbox or rear wing and there aren't that many places where you can safely bump someone.

As for it being cheating... Where did you get that idea? Are you a person who won't run high-nose setups? Even if the effect is too severe, it's still something that is done in real life, and it's not cheating there... As is the high-nose config, btw, done in real life (look at tristans car, it actually HAS the high-nose config built into the wing!)...

Racing is not a solitary sport... It's not something you do alone... On some tracks you can win by being selfish and fast, and on some tracks the winner will be determined by the way people work together (most notably the oval, but KYGP and BL as well)... If this involves hanging someone out to dry because you know he's faster in the twisty sections, then by all means you should hang him out to dry (which means, break his draft by simply refusing to let him draft you and picking another car to draft with). If this involves bumpdrafting someone to get a small lead into a series of turns, then do it...
Racing is not about being the fastest driver... Racing is about crossing the finishline first. If it was about being the fastest driver we'd all be watching timetrials for F1 GPs.

There are plenty of ways you can let me know you don't want me bumpdrafting you without you wrecking my race... If you pass me on the inside and push me out I don't go slamming you into the wall from the inside on the next turn... That would be wrecking... So would repaying a bumpdraft with a braketest or a sideswipe be...

Yes, it's more dangerous online because of lag, but you can pretty much see what stable cars you can try a bumpdraft with and which would lag into you. It's nothing more dangerous than going into turn 1 3-wide after the start, which most of you (me included) seem to have no problem with.

Why don't we just end this discussion about the wrongs and rights of bumpdrafting, and just kindly communicate how you feel about it when the need's there on the track? You'll never agree with me, at least not until you actually have me pushing you along the BL straight and find it is actually a useful and fun way of cooperating with someone to gain time. It's all part of strategy.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

Well, I was racing on that server for two 6 lap races beforehand, lag free. And, you shouldn't need to hit on the brakes while being bumpdrafted, because the bumpdrafter should only be doing it on a long straight away (like me)

The way I understood him he doesn't brake because he has to... He does it to wreck you (and more than likely himself and several innocent racers as well).

It's like that video a couple posts higher... Don't like it... Show the drafter you don't like it by doing the online equivalent of waving the (index)finger at him.

Quote from Vain :

The first one who bumpdrafts me will get a big fat "Stop touching me there! My rear is virgin and it will always be! I'm not queer!"

Vain

And that's the way it should be... Although the intonation could be a bit more, uhmmm, friendly?

Quote from al heeley :

Agreed, thats why I moved it here. Tragic event, the world is filled with them.
Can't see the relevance of posting it on a racing sim forum, don't mean to be dispassionate.

Good job on moving the thread, but would you mind leaving a little note saying you moved it next time? Saves us all some confusion...

Quote from keiran :

I brake for bumpdrafters its a stupid thing to do on a online game where lag can happen. What happens if someone spins in front of the car in front while your ramming that car up the rear you'll never hit the brakes in time.

There's one thing more stupid than bumpdrafting with lag... And that's hitting the brakes when you're being bumpdrafted... That goes right down on my list about 1 point higher than ramming someone off the track on purpose... And I will mark you as a wrecker if you ever do that to me. (not that that's something to be worried of, but you could simply tell me not to bump you, and I won't)

Quote :

It isn't done in all motorsports if thats what you think to and in real life lag isn't an issue. In real life there is no physics engine to confuse.

Keiran

Well, it happens a whole lot more than you, and a lot of others, wanna think. Last night on Motors TV there was the BMW World Cup season replay, and there were a couple of guys that were bumpdrafting very often... Deliberately, and in Formula cars! And almost ALL saloon series have loads of bumpdrafting throughout the field...

Doesn't make it easy, nor safe... But it's as much part of racing as overtaking (which you don't get in F1 either, so that may be why they don't Bump).