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z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Quote from Sparky206 :had an idea whilst watching the monaco grand prix...

I had one too, take away all the car restrictions, then we'll really see who can build the best car.

There are plenty of racing series with close racing due to similar cars, formula 1 is currently boring, I'd rather see what they come up with to build the fastest cars they can without being hampered by "oh noes the fast cars are too fast!" restrictions.
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
LOL at german person in a french car. The saxo/106 has the single worst chassis I've experienced. I don't care how many valves the VTS has or how much peak horsepower it has, it'll always be worse than a bag full of smashed badgers.

Quote from Soeren Scharf :
Edit: That's me

Revision Aids
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Please can a moderator ban me from this forum till the 30th of this month as I have exams to do for university.
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
I have it mapped to a wheel button, and with a fairly 'loose' setting even when it is on.

I use it to launch out of hairpins in low gears with the slightest of opposite lock if I've stuffed my exit line, then I turn it off for the quicker stuff where the wings keep the car settled despite the wheelspin.
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
If you look up the force dynamics videos which map the G's to motion simulating changes in angle etc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uy7rNr1OrY

You will note that the actual G's experienced by the virtual driver are pretty potent, so even measuring it in this "whip" effect you've magically dreamed up. It's still fine.


And yes, I know that's a far more powerful race car, but that looks about right to me from what I've experienced of slick tyres and cars with no interior!
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Quote from Shotglass :wont stand a chance against my lightweight 1200hp bear pit on wheels






z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Are we going to have a "speed dating" pairing up thread? Or should we go through the ritual humiliation I thought I'd escaped having left school of "picking teams" on the day....

Quote :
Consistantly quick superstar on the brakes 21yo male, 5ft11/11stone, red OMP gloves and boots, black helmet with tinted visor, drives BMW E46 2.5L, seeks similarly enthusiastic karting partner for Karting, maybe podium finish. Must be light, consistant, focused, and aggressive, and roughly the same size so we don't have to swap any seat padding at the "driver change".

Quote from Bob Smith :
Note that 2 hours of karting only involes you in the seat for 1 hour, in 4x 15 minutes stints. Much easier than 2 hours straight.

oooooooooh - well that's alright then, my practice sessions are 1hr15 straight! n00b alert over.
Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Quote from Bean0 :Thread Tools > Subscribe

I've done that :dunce: I mean threads in this forum starting with LFS Karting Meet as I can't subscribe threads I havn't seen!

Quote from AMB :I'd be interested since I race karts over the UK, i came 4th in the Welsh Championship and 3rd in the LKRC Championship, if anyone wants to team up just post it here , also what track would it be at?

Awesome - real karters for competition. I've always aspired to Karting, but I have to be self sufficient and attend university, leaving weekend time as I'm at work, and no money as I only have time to work at weekends! That said, this sounds worth a day of leave and saving up some cash for.
Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
I just know I couldn't resist once I'm there - therefore a yes!

Seal of Approval
Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
I'm an idiot - I can make all dates, I voted only one by accident.
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
I'm going to need to do some weight training for this one, the last time I did 2 hours straight in a kart I was *ruined* the next day.

That said it was one of the top 2 hours of my life thus far, and as such vote for the max race length - when you're battling for position, time goes all too fast!

Is there a way to subscribe to threads relavent to this? I don't have time to frequent the forums much and I'm concerned about missing threads crucial to this event.

nb.
I've got a Formula Renault rag round Thruxton in 2 weeks time - so if I never post again, it's because I apexed early.
Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
moar hawzpowah kneedud
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Pgr4
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Awesome,

sadly for every 1 of these there are twenty where you shaft/get shafted by some poor tonk who darted left/right of you doing their own knife through butter....
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Quote from JTbo :Just to note that not all cars have guibo.

Don't know if these help, but here is pic and it came from this page


Material is bit similar to some engine mounts, it can flex, but it is used mainly to remove small vibrations, it is not flexing anything significant amount as you can see by looking photo.

I have a LOT of flex in my bmw drivetrain, I'm in the process of replacing all the bushings with polymer ones instead of this crappy, over-flexible rubber. It's a giant arse ache.

The flex matters a lot - the reason I'm swapping them out is because I raced someone elses with this already done and it was brilliant, really responsive dynamics.

You can even buy aluminium ones for racing, things like diff mounts especially.

My differential rocks enough just flicking it into first gear to make a clunk from it rocking in its carrier and the bushings, if you dump the gass and take it off again you can really feel the whole lot elasticate the application of torque to the wheels.
Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Yes Please.

I'm 69th fastest driver ever at my local track, and I LOVE overtaking.



Also happy to do a run up from Surrey in the BMW.
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed









In other news -

Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Nero Vision Express - part of the super flash nero MASSIVE SOFTWARE SUITE edition.
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
I wasn't very sure about where to post this. But much like the hilarious videos posted in the general forum, if you are driving with the automatic gears (I was testing out the demo on a fresh install on a work laptop, as I was too impatient to wait to get home),

If you melt the clutch, the computer "changing gear for you" doesn't know the difference between driving the wheels, and burning the clutch.

This may mean that the AI drivers won't be able to baby the clutch after a serious spin?

Sorry if this is in the wrong place/already somewhere I couldn't find - I don't even mind to be honest - First time I've used auto gears in ages.
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Quote from PioneerLv :Redline limiter sound is TERRIBLE.
I hope it will not be in the patch Y. It should be removed.

Previous REV. limiter sound is much better. Worst thing I don't want to play anymore with that limiter sound (with road stock cars).


The limiter is to stop the engine exploding immediately from too much throttle, its an upper limit, you should shift before it. I've never heard the rev limiter in any car I've raced, no matter how hard I drive it. The power drops off towards it so you should be changing pronto!
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Borrow a naff motorbike and have a go at downshifting without the clutch - it's a great way to learn!

If you are braking on a corner approach, the engine is trying to go slower than the wheels, it resists being turned over as there is not enough fuel going in to explode and expand to drive it. If you are at zero throttle, the engine will always by trying to turn at idling rpm, much slower than the rpm it will actually be going unless you've left your downshift 2 weeks too late.

If you blip with the clutch engaged, that is, connected to the drive shaft, there is a transition from the engine slowing the rear wheels, to trying to accelerate them. In order to go through this transition, bang in the middle there is a point where the dogs are completely unloaded, and it is this point that allows the higher gear to be disengaged.

As the gearbox parts moves, the revs climb from the blip, and if you time it right, the dogs mesh with the new lower ratio at the right rpm for the wheel/gearbox speed.

This is a fine art, one that can be expensive to earn.

I will always go for mechanical sympathy where practically available because I believe it pays off not only as a calm, controlled driving style, but looks after the car as well.

If you're downshifting on a corner approach as you always are when time matters, it doesn't matter if your shift is fractionally slower because you don't need the engine to slow down the car, that's what the brakes are for.

That's what it feels like to me anyway.



lol at red dwarf reference
Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Any petrol engine can have an electronic microswitch on the gearstick or paddle arrangement, which can activate a relay, which in turn cuts the ignition for the duration of the shift action.

You can get micro-switches for a euro... relays and wiring is simple enough. No race team would bodge it that simply.

A version for motorcycles is this :

It’s the Dynojet Quick Shifter (DQS), and this one allows full-throttle, clutchless up-shifting.

http://www.partsmag.com/0402/dynojet-0402/dynojet-0402.html

in short, its an ignition system, which when it detects pressure on the foot control push/pull rod, cuts the ignition to the cylinders - (the dynojet ignition replaces the stock version).

I'm pretty sure you can get one for the engine in the motorcycles that gives its engine to formula bmw.

All of this is well off topic though, as formula one is sealed engine, strictly governed racing. What can be done, and what is allowed, are very different.
z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
I've alread thrown this over the patch test forum, but for good measure:

Hewland Sequential Gearbox designers opinion on the best way to shift their boxes:
Quote :
Successful up-shifting, (defined as fast and non dog-damaging) will be achieved by fully moving the dog ring as rapidly as possible from one gear to the next, preferably with the engine's driving load removed until the shift is completed. (The opposite is true of a synchromesh gearbox as used in passenger cars, where slow movement helps). It should be remembered that it is not possible to damage the dogs when fully engaged (in gear). The damage can only take place when initiating contact during a shift, (the `danger zone`) therefore this element must be made as short as possible. If a driver moves the gear lever slowly, or if the linkage is not rigid and effective, dog wear will occur. We always recommend lightweight yet solid rod linkage, not cables ideally.

I list below the different methods of up-shifting that are used in racing most commonly. The best at the top, the worst at the bottom:

Automated (semi automated). The movement of the dog ring is powered and the engine is cut / re-instated in a co-ordinated manner. Gear-shifts take milliseconds. This system produces zero dog wear when set up well. It is not applicable to most cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing.

Manual with engine cut. This system is almost as good as an automated one as long as the driver pulls the lever very quickly. Again it is not applicable to many cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing. A `cheat` version of this is to shift on the engine rev limiter, which can work well. With this system it is especially important to move the lever ultra fast, otherwise the engine will be reinstated during partial dog engagement, causing damage. The damage can usually be felt by the driver.

Manual.
Best method: With no assistance from the engine management, the driver must lift off the throttle sufficiently to allow the dog ring to be pulled out of engagement. He should then stay off the throttle long enough to allow the dog ring to engage with the next gear. In practice, the driver can move the gear lever faster than he can move his foot off and back on to the throttle. Therefore the effective method is to apply load to the gear lever with your hand and then lift the throttle foot off and back on to the pedal as fast as physically possible. In lifting your foot, the loaded gear lever will almost involuntarily flick to the next gear before the foot is re-applied to the throttle.
Another method is to load the gear lever with your hand, stay flat on the throttle and dab the clutch to release the dog ring. The overall effect on the gear shift is similar to the above method, but clutch wear may become a big issue.
The worst method (most destructive and definitely slowest) is to attempt to change gear in a `passenger car / synchromesh` way, i.e. lifting off the throttle, dipping the clutch, moving the gear lever, letting the clutch up and re-instating the throttle. The method causes unnecessary clutch wear, does absolutely nothing to help come out of gear and usually causes dog wear whilst engaging the next gear. This wear is due to several reasons. Firstly, it is impossible for a driver to co-ordinate the complicated sequence of all five physical movements accurately. Consequently the engagement dogs often find themselves engaging whilst the throttle is applied. The lever is usually pulled more slowly as it was not pre-loaded, lengthening the `danger zone`.

Successful down-shifting, has similar rules applied regarding speed of shift. Unloading the dogs is done in the opposite manner obviously. Whilst braking, the dogs must be unloaded by either touching the throttle pedal or- my preferred method- by dipping the clutch. However, one sharp dab of clutch or throttle is appropriate per shift. Continued pressure on either will cause dog damage for different reasons. `Blipping the throttle` just before engagement is advisable if the rev drops between gears are over 1300 rpm, as this will aid engagement and stabilise the car.

This is a subject which can be much expended on, but I feel that these are the basics, which I hope are of use.

z3r0c00l
S2 licensed
Quote from sinbad :Not a bug, but I'm curious about the setup options. I'm guessing that you can't adjust/swap the differential in a real FBMW in the way you can in LFS, among other things I imagine.
So........why aren't setup options chosen to follow the real cars/series' when every effort is made to make it identical in other ways?

You order the differential type with the gearbox, either a free diff, or for an extra few hundred quid, you get a powerflow differential. From what I can tell... it's pretty damn adjustable!

Which looks like this:

http://www.hewland-engineering.com/drawings/egt.pdf - page 13

it has 11 friction plates and is adjustable in 3 ways.


Quote :The side ring gears angles
have an effect on how much of
the transmitted torque is
converted into sideways
(clamping) force onto the
plates. For example, on the
drive side of the ring gear, 45
degrees transmits less
sideways force than 30
degrees. Likewise on the coast
side of the ring gear, an 80
degree angle will transmit little
or no clamping force onto the
plates, whereas a 45 degree
angle will transmit a much
greater force. The side rings
gear(120) are available with
many different drive/coast
ramp angle combinations.

The second adjustable factor is
how tightly the plate stack is
compressed on assembly (known
as static preload). Included in the
plate stack is a preload spacer
(118). The preload torque is
measured between the side bevel
gears, by holding one side bevel
gear (68) stationary, and
measuring the torque required to
turn the other using tool SK-838-
C. Disc spring (96) provides a
pre-load of 100lbs.ft. The static
pre-load can be altered by rotating
the diff end cap (38). Each rotation
of a tooth alters the preload
by approximately 20lbs.ft.


The final adjustment is simply to
re-order the plate stack so as to
change the number of relatively
rotating faces. The diagram
shows the stack setup with the
maximum 10 working faces.
Standard stack may be shuffled
to give as few as 2 working faces.

Available gear ratios include:

Quote :Part Number DESCRIPTION Ratio
FTR-12:38-INT Layshaft integral first gear 3.17
FTR-12:35-INT Layshaft integral first gear 2.92
FTR-12:33-INT Layshaft integral first gear 2.75
FTR-12:31-INT Layshaft integral first gear 2.58
FTR-12:29-INT Layshaft integral first gear 2.42
FTR-14:33-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.36
FTR-13:30-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.31
FTR-15:34-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.27
FTR-15:33-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.20
FTR-15:32-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.13
FTR-15:31-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.07
FTR-15:30-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.00
FTR-15:30-STD RATIO 2.00
FTR-15:29-STD RATIO 1.93
FTR-15:29-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.93
FTR-16:30-STD RATIO 1.88
FTR-16:30-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.88
FTR-17:31-STD RATIO 1.82
FTR-17:31-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.82
FTR-15:27-STD RATIO 1.80
FTR-15:27-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.80
FTR-17:30-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.76
FTR-17:30-STD RATIO 1.76
FTR-15:26-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.73
FTR-15:26-STD RATIO 1.73
FTR-17:29-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.71
FTR-17:29-STD RATIO 1.71
FTR-16:27-STD RATIO 1.69
FTR-16:27-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.69
FTR-15:25-STD RATIO 1.67
FTR-15:25-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.67
FTR-16:26-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.63
FTR-16:26-STD RATIO 1.63
FTR-17:27-STD RATIO 1.59
FTR-16:25-STD RATIO 1.56
FTR-17:26-STD RATIO 1.53
FTR-16:24-STD RATIO 1.50
FTR-17:25-STD RATIO 1.47
FTR-16:23-STD RATIO 1.44
FTR-19:27-STD RATIO 1.42
FTR-18:25-STD RATIO 1.39
FTR-19:26-STD RATIO 1.37
FTR-17:23-STD RATIO 1.35
FTR-18:24-STD RATIO 1.33
FTR-19:25-STD RATIO 1.32
FTR-20:26-STD RATIO 1.30
FTR-18:23-STD RATIO 1.28
FTR-19:24-STD RATIO 1.26
FTR-20:25-STD RATIO 1.25
FTR-21:26-STD RATIO 1.24
FTR-18:22-STD RATIO 1.22
FTR-19:23-STD RATIO 1.21
FTR-21:25-STD RATIO 1.19
FTR-23:27-STD RATIO 1.17
FTR-19:22-STD RATIO 1.16
FTR-21:24-STD RATIO 1.14
FTR-24:27-STD RATIO 1.13
FTR-19:21-STD RATIO 1.11
FTR-24:26-STD RATIO 1.08
FTR-18:19-STD RATIO 1.06
FTR-25:26-STD RATIO 1.04
FTR-24:24-STD RATIO 1.00
FTR-25:24-STD RATIO 0.96
FTR-26:24-STD RATIO 0.92
FTR-27:24-STD RATIO 0.89

And for good measure, their reccomendations on changing gear with a sequential:

Quote :Successful up-shifting, (defined as fast and non dog-damaging) will be achieved by fully moving the dog ring as rapidly as possible from one gear to the next, preferably with the engine's driving load removed until the shift is completed. (The opposite is true of a synchromesh gearbox as used in passenger cars, where slow movement helps). It should be remembered that it is not possible to damage the dogs when fully engaged (in gear). The damage can only take place when initiating contact during a shift, (the `danger zone`) therefore this element must be made as short as possible. If a driver moves the gear lever slowly, or if the linkage is not rigid and effective, dog wear will occur. We always recommend lightweight yet solid rod linkage, not cables ideally.

I list below the different methods of up-shifting that are used in racing most commonly. The best at the top, the worst at the bottom:

Automated (semi automated). The movement of the dog ring is powered and the engine is cut / re-instated in a co-ordinated manner. Gear-shifts take milliseconds. This system produces zero dog wear when set up well. It is not applicable to most cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing.

Manual with engine cut. This system is almost as good as an automated one as long as the driver pulls the lever very quickly. Again it is not applicable to many cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing. A `cheat` version of this is to shift on the engine rev limiter, which can work well. With this system it is especially important to move the lever ultra fast, otherwise the engine will be reinstated during partial dog engagement, causing damage. The damage can usually be felt by the driver.

Manual.
Best method: With no assistance from the engine management, the driver must lift off the throttle sufficiently to allow the dog ring to be pulled out of engagement. He should then stay off the throttle long enough to allow the dog ring to engage with the next gear. In practice, the driver can move the gear lever faster than he can move his foot off and back on to the throttle. Therefore the effective method is to apply load to the gear lever with your hand and then lift the throttle foot off and back on to the pedal as fast as physically possible. In lifting your foot, the loaded gear lever will almost involuntarily flick to the next gear before the foot is re-applied to the throttle.
Another method is to load the gear lever with your hand, stay flat on the throttle and dab the clutch to release the dog ring. The overall effect on the gear shift is similar to the above method, but clutch wear may become a big issue.
The worst method (most destructive and definitely slowest) is to attempt to change gear in a `passenger car / synchromesh` way, i.e. lifting off the throttle, dipping the clutch, moving the gear lever, letting the clutch up and re-instating the throttle. The method causes unnecessary clutch wear, does absolutely nothing to help come out of gear and usually causes dog wear whilst engaging the next gear. This wear is due to several reasons. Firstly, it is impossible for a driver to co-ordinate the complicated sequence of all five physical movements accurately. Consequently the engagement dogs often find themselves engaging whilst the throttle is applied. The lever is usually pulled more slowly as it was not pre-loaded, lengthening the `danger zone`.

Successful down-shifting, has similar rules applied regarding speed of shift. Unloading the dogs is done in the opposite manner obviously. Whilst braking, the dogs must be unloaded by either touching the throttle pedal or- my preferred method- by dipping the clutch. However, one sharp dab of clutch or throttle is appropriate per shift. Continued pressure on either will cause dog damage for different reasons. `Blipping the throttle` just before engagement is advisable if the rev drops between gears are over 1300 rpm, as this will aid engagement and stabilise the car.

This is a subject which can be much expended on, but I feel that these are the basics, which I hope are of use.

Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG