Quote from Dark Elite :

With the same power/weight ratio, I don't think an LX8 GTR would ever keep up with the current GTR cars. It'd be bloody quick off the mark, but its smaller tyres and less aerodynamic shape would make it slower in the corners and slower on the straights too, so it would need a greater power to weight ratio - giving it a bigger kick out of the corners, and helping to make up for the aerodynamic defecit at higher speeds. Unless, of course, we go all single-seater with the downforce and really stick it to the track

It's a bit out of the LX style, though, isn't it? Wings and slicks? Isn't it supposed to be a fun, challenging waste of tyres? Might as well just cut the roof off an FZR otherwise...

Sam

Well it may keep up with the GTR with the same Hp/weight ratio, only if it had slicks. This car would be for corners, not for straights, and with 500 kilos less (600kg) than the others GTR, it would be really reall nice to drive
Especially with a heavier engine in the front, it would make the weight distribution closer to 50/50, with then an extreme cornering power. The LX series kick out at the exits because of the too high rear weight.

Quote from Bean0 :

I think the SC should be a fairly uncomplicated livery, but recognisable.
Hopefully this has the desired effect.

I totally agree.
Because Safety cars are in the RL series usually high-specced cars provided by manufacturers that compete in the serie (Mercedes-AMG for the F1 Championship), I decided to follow that pattern for my skin.
Thus, I added a homemade carbon kit (not only the bodykits and skirts, but also the air inlets as well as the front lights received carbon fiber parts) that elongate the FZ5 "silhouette" (shape) and make them more refined.

The color pattern is blue, gray and black. The blue comes directly from the race logo, while the grey is meant to remind us of the stock color of that kind of car. Finally, the purpose of the black is to emphasize. Emphasize what? Simply, the blinkers that will be used during the races, and also the roof logo that I put here for broadcasting purposes.

Speaking of logos, as stated, I included the race logo on the roof, for broadcasting purposes, if you guys have an "helicopter-like" camera. The MoE logo is located on the hood, as painted on the carbon fiber, and on the trunk. The race logo is also located on the doors, next to the "Safety Car" inscription.

Here is a little preview. I will send the skin to you later this week, because I might still have some tweaking to do

Hope you like it !

PS : I would sincerely like to thank Master Skinnerz for providing a very good wireframe model for the FZ5, that helped me a lot during the creation process of the skin.
PS2 : If I may, your skins on your website are really well done Bean0. Good job
Edit : Sorry for the low res of the preview, but the skin is in 2048², don't worry

Last edited by Zen321, Sat 20 Dec 2008, 21:28.

Try changing the sound with shift+A

Quote from foopower :

Nice idea!!! ... Many people would like to have an endless road(or a freeway/highway) to cruise on. Like reststops, R&Rs... Many people think cruising is meaning less and g@y. What do you think?

People did not pick up that post ?

Foopower, I think you answered your question in the first part of your post. Having a long straight road would make cruising really really meaningless and a lot more gay (without any parallel with the gameword or the gay population on those forums ).

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Nice in theory, bad in practise. There are too many idiots that can't drive cleanly, half the grid would be wrecked on the warm up lap, there'd always be one prick that'd steal someone elses grid position "for lols", maybe a server side option for league races where people are actually sensible, but on more public servers such as CTRA and stuff, it'd be a waste of time.

It's easy to prevent this behavior. When every one has arrived at 100m from the start boxes, a simple indication with : "Please join your personnal box within X seconds before being spectated" would be efficient enough.
This should be automatically applied for races with qualifications, as the immersion would be really really better

Quote from unseen :

Not an easy reply, I know, but I`m just wondering why announce it when it wasn`t 100% sure of a release.

If you`re reading this Scawen, you normally only announce releases when something is guaranteed, so why the public announcement and subsequent cancellation?

Even those of us that aren`t playing LFS atm know you are constantly working on it with your own schedule, and development isn`t going to just die all of a sudden without some sort of official statement, so why make the statement and cancel afterwards? It just seems like a radical departure from the norm.

I know everyone likes a patch or expects some sort of gift at xmas, but there was no need at all to announce it if it couldn`t be released. It`s your project, and no amount of whining is going to force a release of anything.

Was it just wishful thinking to release something to us all for xmas, or are you starting to feel overly stressed about the perceived lack of visible public progress, and felt you needed to announce something prematurely to keep people happy?

I think it is partly because between the announcement and the probable release dates, some unexpected bugs came up, so I think it's not a whim from their part.

Don't you, though, like the fact that basically, we know what they are working on? Plus, Scawen clearly stated, "the next patch [hear the patch that was supposed to come out before Friday 19th] was not representative of all the work done since patch Z". Imagine that all of the features they worked on that were finished at 70% could not be integrated in 0.6A. Then it is clearly understandable that they finally changed their minds and said : "All right, let's work bloody hard for one more month instead of losing times with the testpatches now".

Because it's true, launching a test patch makes them lose time in the development process. Instead of finishing started things, they have to focus one week or so by correcting the bugs of the version, and it's not possible for them to work on something else. So, let's hope that the next patch will make us come up with nice things, more than in the actual build of 0.6A

Quote from Wikipedia :

1930 - 1945

The first successful consumer application came in 1931 with the DKW F1 from Germany. Other German car producers followed: Stoewer offered a car with front wheel drive in 1931, Adler in 1932 and Audi in 1933. In 1934, the very successful Traction Avant cars were introduced by Citroën of France. BSA three-wheelers of the United Kingdom were also popular front-wheel drive automobiles, and the Cord 810 of the United States managed a bit better in the late 1930s than its predecessor one decade earlier. These vehicles featured a layout that places the engine behind the transmission, running "backwards," (save for the Cord, which drove the transmission from the front of the engine). The basic front-wheel drive layout provides sharp turning, and better weight distribution creates "positive handling characteristics" due to its low polar inertia and relatively favourable weight distribution. (The heaviest component is near the centre of the car, making the main component of its moment of inertia relatively low). Another result of this design is a lengthened chassis.

I said back in the 1930's, because of the heavy materials. Since nowadays the materials are lighter, the weight bias is more toward the front

I think that since the vehicls possess aftermarket parts, adjustability should still stay there.
However, limitating the gears ratios, the ARB settings to a large choice, eventually the springs might not be depleasant

Quote from ColeusRattus :

Well, living in a quite flat country where the annual snowfall is only in meters if you measure it horizontally, that might be true.
But as soon as you have to go up somewhere that's higher than the average house on a snowy or icy road, you quickly learn to despise RWD cars. The only upside of them over FWDs (or AWDs) is that you usually don't have to reverse down to take a new try, as you'll end up facing backwards anyway.

Yep, this is why FWD cars are extremely popular (for the safety).

It's necessary to state that the first FWD cars were built for competition, for having the engine at the front and the transmission right between the driver and the engine helped having a 50/50 weight ratio because of the heavy materials used to buidl a car in the 20's-30's.
"Modern" (from the 70's to nowadays) FWD are popular, because of the 52/48ish weight ratio, which creates a sharp turn-in, and understeer over power due to the front wheels slipping. Thus, you can still turn well, and don't risk spinning out on power (you just release the gas if you're taking the corner too wide). However, a RWD acheiving a 50/50 weight ratio, will have better performance than a 50/50 FWD.

For racing purposes, a car with the exact same characteristics but the drivetrain will have better times than an FWD on short races, and will last longer on long races (for in a FWD, the front tires are overheated compared to the rearies). This is an "absolute" comparison. Speaking of relative comparison, some FWD cars can own other RWD cars with different specs. (aka the new Minis vs modern BMW on narrow and twisty roads).

What about the AWD then ? They are extremely forgiving, but they only get extremely powerful when you have 4 wheel steering and a Center LSD (Open center differential will give the power to the axle where the spinning wheel, which makes either no power with open diff on both axles and only one powered wheel if the said axle has a LSD). Just look at the "heavy" Nissan GTR-32 in its track application (39 victories in 39 races).

Last edited by Zen321, Tue 16 Dec 2008, 22:39.

Okay, I didn't see that post Thanks MP3

I just have a question.

Since the VWS is postponed to an unknown date, should we get back to work on the FZ5 ?

Or should we still work on the Scirocco skin, while there are chances that it won't be released before the race?

Both, maybe?

I think that it is good news that it is delayed.
The worst thing software developper could do is to release prematurely an upgrade because of the customer pressure, and disappoint the customers because the standard was not high enough.

Live For Speed must keep its high-standard, so the delay is not a problem
For all the whiners, the delay of a car by a couple of month is not a seriously big deal. You paid for your license, and it's a free upgrade, so you won't have to pay anything more to get it Plus, you have a social life, get drunk and get laid at the new year's eve, to let to steam off

Keep up the good work Scavier ! At least it seems that you heard that we wanted more communication, and you apply it transparently and in a very good way!

Quote from raif995 :

I know how you all feel, coming out of a corner with wheelspin (I generally measure speed in and out of corners to optimize lap times) is an annoying problem and hopfully will be fixed in future patches (no more exit wheelspin yay!) WE CAN HOPE!

You bumped a year-old thread suggesting that there'll be no more exit wheelspin in future patches?
Did you know that the only way to prevent exit wheelspin is, and that's a ROUGH GUESS, get better on the throttle control ??

Quote from silent_wind :

good news... just a question though , what engine versoin is it ? the 2.0tsi or the 1.4 ?

It's the 2.0tsi

@Sinbad : Trackday cars usually are not required to have roll bars. So you can fit suspension and differential upgrades to your road-legal car (making it less road legal though) and go at your local track for some pick up racing. I feel it's like this in Live For Speed for the road legal cars. For the race-cars there is no arguing.

It just shows your conception of what LFS should be, while my ideas show mine. Do you want to have "extremely road legal cars ?" (Fixed suspension settings, Open diff for the lowered powered cars, no RB, "safety camber and toe"). Or do you want to have "trackday prepared cars" ? You said in your earlier post that the first conception wasn't good, so we agree on the second point

TBH, I don't see the link between the rollcages and the matter of the discussion, as they are essentially for the look in LFS (no chassis flex and stiffness yet ) so there is no point of including them .
The beauty of LFS is that there is a lot of adjustement possible. Having less variety would be a great idea, however, having to restrict them to a very few choices would make it very very bad. As I said, there are some values that need to be diminished (transmission, spring stiffness, ARB ratio to quite a bit, different brake strength) while some others should stay the way they are (all wheel and tires settings, direction, differential, damping settings, ride height, brake bias), because they are "easily" modable IRL.

A counter-argument to "in the series, every car needs to be to the same specs". It's true, all the time you usually only have a choice between some of mandatory parts. However, the same car can be eligible for different series, and then, the rules are different, with different boundaries of adjustement. This is why having LFS have the largest realistic adjustment boundaries is better, since, if some InSim programs is out, you can always downgrade the cars (not only restriction speaking).

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

in sequential I must have damaged it as it has started to double shift, which sucks as I was getting used to it and was getting faster lap times than flappy paddles.

I've read on a review that it's because the paddles are on the same sheet of metal, so if you shift strong and release it too quick, then it creates a small shockwave in the paddles which might be strong enough to touch the button inside, and double shift it.

Try to keep you hand on the paddle when you're releasing it

Contrarily to what I expected, there were some interesting arguments about the restrictions on the car

I especially liked AndroidXP's efforts to offer a tangible suggestion of how it should be
On the road cars, setup adjustment should be limited up to a certain point, assuming that if we are racing the XRG we bought it on ebaymotors and upgraded it to the serie's specs. WE obviously don't have the financial of the material power to build custom springs that manage to work with a frequency 0.01Hz away from what the engineers calculated.
Concerning the dampers, the adjustments seem to be fine the way they are now. For a lot of dampers, you juste have to turn a sprocket in a certain way to make it stiffer (like the Konis, so like LFS). For others, you have certain positions which provide different damping ratios.
For the ARB, you should not have a choice of 6 ratios, but a choice of six different values at the front and at the rear which makes 36 different choices, and which is pretty close to the choice between different IRL front and rear ARB for a car.

The wheel adjustment seems perfectly fine, since the tools used to adjust each wheels are really, really precise.

@gezmoor (Thanks for the magnesium wheels links The RS Watanabe are the same design as the superlite, but idk whether they are made of magnesium, so I'll take a look )
Concerning the "cheap" suspension that would be "mainly unadjustable", I think this is a wrong assumption. Cheap doesn't always mean of a bad quality and, especially with the big companies, the price of the suspensions is directly linked to the price of the brand.
Let's look at the jeans' market for example. A Lot of really expensive jeans are not that durable (Diesel), while the average priced jean (Lewis) can last for around 3 years.
Concerning the suspension, it is similar. Some brands like Koni or Bilstein make you pay a lot for a product which, honestly, can be compared in quality and performance output to a one costing 50 to 75% of the price. The only thing is that it is cooler to tell you have Bilstein suspension than a Tokico one This explains the difference of prices for a similar quality setting.

As I told, I am exploring all of the options to modify a car for asphalt rallyes/slalom and uphill/downhill races events. After looking at a lot of different paths to follow, to enjoy more the ride and yet be competitive, I concluded that modifying as much as I can (aka spending time & money as much as I can afford) is definitely the best way to acheive a good output. I think this should be the way you think about it in LFS.
I spent so many hours of thinking, calculating and test driving setups for my cars in LFS that I find they are pretty damn optimized. And I usually don't screw around wiht 1 click of spring stiffness

Quote from D_Thrasher :

I think the ABS is a great inclusion personally. Road cars in real life have it, so why not the road cars in LFS? Leaving it out would make the sim *less* realistic. And of course, it's likely to make laps faster; the whole point of ABS is that it shortens braking distances and helps maintain control. I'm not saying that it should necessarily be used in races (the ability to ban ABS at the host's end would be a great idea IMO - I'm all for racing without ABS), but it's just an extra facet of the sim. Perhaps something to use on cruise servers, or just for playing around with. It could also help new drivers, as a learning aid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... &feature=channel_page

At the end, there is a comparison with the ABS engaged (after the threshold of the grip, brake pedal depressed to the max), and at the end, just right before reaching the ABS threshold (it does not kick in).

The ABS at full braking can be compared to "cadence" braking we can see earlier in the video.

@Scawen : the ABS is a really good idea for LFS. However, maybe reducing its frequency (making the time when it releases the pressure a bit longer), or even lowering the pressure it applies when it releases the pressure so that it can't stay at the optimum braking point for too long would make it more balanced, and emphasize on the driving skills, instead of putting the brake pressure to the max and kicking it hard

I've got a little question concerning the hotlaps.

I tried to upload once XRG hotlap at WE1R, and I can't because that it's a test patch Z4 hotlap.
My question is : will I have to do it again? or well the test patch hotlaps can be converted anyhow in a future patch

Thanks for answering (I'm not ranting, I don't care about redoing it, since it's nowhere near the WR, I just need to know whether I should take a break of hotlapping )

Quote from BlueFlame :

I wasn't suggesting the Super OR Ultraleggera wheels were the lightest production alloy wheels, but I did say that they are very light wheels anyway.

Don't worry, I wasn't suggesting they were either I was just asking, because I need to find a pair of rims for my "rally" car and I plan on buying the lightest ones (when I got enough money ). So I wanted to have like the latest-to-date information about the wheels

Quote from gezmoor :

I would expect more flexibility of set up, but in a road car I expect next to none.

It's the opposite. A low-specs sport car is the easiest to tune. You can find extremely good suspension bundles (springs, adjustable dampers and ARB) for "quite cheap" (understand £500 a set if you stick with the stock suspension geometry), which can diabolically change the car's behavior. Also, you can buy a Clutch Pack LSD for around the same price.
I don't know yet about the wheel adjustment prices but I would say (correct me if I'm wrong) between £500 and £700 depending on what you want to do (toe, camber, or both). and let's say £400 for the aftermarket rims.

Thus, my setup on the XRG would cost around £2100, since I was too cheap to switch to supers (£400 more!)
On the other hand, more expensive cars are more expensive to tune.

In spec-car series, like the Mazda Spec in the US, the cars ned to have specific parts (such as the Mazdaspeed suspension) which is mandatory, but adjustable as you'd like to

In LFS, we are not driving completely stock road cars. Otherwise, most of them would have to have a fixed Open Diff. If it was the case, LFS would lose its title of "Racing Simulator" (as it simulates a bit the rules of Spec series) to the one of "Sunday Fast Driver Simulator".

The only thing that would be nice is, of course, the limitation of the transmission settings, but this belongs to another topic.

___

Concerning the rims, I thought the RS Watanabe were the lightest rims ever made? Did OZ beat them with their Super or Ultraleggera ?

Quote from chk :

Now the only things missing in lfs are a light MR car like the elise/exige and a reproduction of the nordschleife

Noooooo, don't say that, there is already the RAC (turbo Elise/Exige like ).
What LFS needs is a 50/50 weight ratio RWD car, preferably front engined Well, as long as it is 50/50 with a decent power to weight ratio (and around a ton), I'd like it, should it be front, mid or rear engine, as long as it's RWD

Quote from Zipppy :

Seems to me that is where the tire would get inflated from in the real car.

Yep, it's a hole in the wheel where your tire's valve should go through.

But there is no valve here Won't we able to change the tires pressure ?

(Please don't post useless replies to my post )

Quote from danthebangerboy :

I am having issues with FPS, and general slowness when loading up LFS I dont really play anything other than LFS so i have nothing to compare it to in terms of capability if you know what i mean.

Have you installed custom DDS textures (track, skies, cars, barriers, tires)?

With my non competition-spec laptop (Intel Dual-Core, GeForce Go 7300 @ 128MB and Dx10), I used to have like 55FPs in 1280x(can't remember but it was a 16:9). I swicthed to 1024x768 to get better fps (around 70), but I realized a few weeks from now that my FPS was aorund 35 in every track (with the same settings, i forgot to add that I had 2x aa and af).
However, my unmodded install of LFS-V1 could run wihtout problem at 60fps in 1280.

I DLed a fresh install of LFS, and it now works brilliantly as before.

I think it was mainly because of custom textures. Each do not make your FPS drop significantly, but if you DL too many, then you expose yourself to bad performance

Try a fresh install of LFS to see how it works Otherwise, try to clean your skin_x (downloaded skin when joining a server) folder from time to time.

Quote from MijnWraak :

S2 has XFR. pretty comparable.

Not really,the Scirocco GT is an AWD with 312hp

Quote from robbielayton :

and u dont go on green ive been racing for 5 yrs 3rd amber light comes on u go .

Yeah so that the power has time to go to the wheel through the whole transmission.

Please tell me you're racing on a standard tranny