Having 0 lift would not be better than wings.

A negative lift is what you want to acheive (so that the faster you go, the more ground effect you get), as simple as that.

Quote from d1gp :

Yeah seriously Matrixi, WHAT THE HELL? We're discussing points here... http://xs139.xs.to/xs139/09191/sumup713.jpg This is serius stuff.

And Zeug, didn't he prove his point? Do you think you need billions posts to prove a point when a video could speak for itself? Maybe you didn't watch at it or didn't get it? If you still fail to see it, well... I can't help you

The different comments by real life racers/drifters (especially in page 3) where much more useful to support his argument than the video the guy posted in the OP. (And no, I didn't flame you)

I think we all know the issues about the tires when they are too hot in LFS. I have no idea on how it translates into real life with similar temperatures (I don't have any spare money to blow up a set of tires) so I have to rely on the inputs (especially scipy's points that were quite good imho).

What most people don't understand is that physics in games are just models. They are not real life. The goal of a model is to get as close as possible to real life, but it'll neither be equal to (to be perfect, LFS would have to model the heating of every molecule of the compound and see how this affects the wear/temperature/grip level of the tire, which is totally non-feasible considering our level of technology rightnow).

Of course there are flaws in each models, and so far the devs are doing a good job. And I'm sure they will improve it sooner or later (read my previous point on improving a model).

For doing karting a bit, I find that the model so far is quite realistic. I overheated my tires one day during a race (I had to slide around to dramatically avoid the erratic driving of lesser experienced racers), and the soft slicks got pretty weird to control. The rear would snap out very fast and very roughly under power, and under coast to a lesser extent (which helped regarding the entry-understeer on the machines I race on).

I have no idea, though, on how the same tires would handled at 150+°C, so I'll shut up

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Please don't wait around.

What he said

RoR is bad anyways

Yup, Takumi got it right.

The license only applies to people who use some brand's/product's image for their own benefits. So it's normal that they pay a license for that.

For community made mods, their are non-profit, so no-license needed.
Apart in the case that a mod would really RUIN the image of the product/brand they are using, in which case, the owner could ask for a compensation

Atledeier, you can still use your left foot for braking even with a three pedal setup I mean, it's unlikely you'll shift during a corner (or at least not when you'd need your left foot on the brake).

If it's the case, you should try to heel-toe with the left foot (toe on the brake, heel on the clutch)

Quote from Whisper :

Body kits? Wat? I'm talking about mods to the game, not cars. You know, like how CounterStrike is a HL mod. Maybe making a hillclimb rally mod, or something of that sort.

No, a lot of Arcade physics mods would pop up, which is WRONG !

Well, literally, early 2009 could mean anything between january and june (1st half).

So, now everyone please speculate about the meaning of early, as you would do in your litteracy class !

Hey Bunder !

Since a couple of days I've been working on a new league idea with restricted GTR and normal mini-GTR cars to make them perform like an upgraded version of their road legal counterparts.

The car list includes :
- UFR
- XFR
- XRR
- FXR

Obviously no FZR because it would be pointless to reduce it below the stock power-to-weight ratio of the FZ5

I've been doing the balancing and the testing, so far it seems to work quite well. I did so that every car had like its flaws and its good aspects, but I need some more testing time

If you're interested to work with me, send me a PM and I'll give you the list of balancing

Moreover, I was thinking of doing a league with a specific idea : having "standard parts" to choose from (e.g. Each driver/team chooses at the beginning of the league a specific set of transmission ratios for his car that he will have for the whole league - and he also chooses a set of three different final gear ratios). For the moment, I think that building up an Insim program from scratch to check that the setups meet the part requirement is a bit too complicated and too long, so it will have to be humanly enforced, at least for starters.

PM me if you're interested

Quote from Tomba(FIN) :

Devs should not have said any release date in the first place.. their own fault.

Yeah, so basically, when you break a glass by throwing it on the ground, it was the fault of the glass not to be solid enough ? Nonsense. Bullshit. You (not you particularly, it has a general range) moan becayse you don't feel good with yourself, not because of a deception no matter what it is. People should take responsibilities for their behavior, and not keeping blaming someone else.
You kill someone because he insulted your mom ? That's an extenuating circumstance, but YOU killed the guy, it's your action, YOUR fault.

Quote from Tomba(FIN) :

DICTATORS FTW/freedom of speech to hell!

Obvious troll is obvious. You have no idea of what you are talking about sir, and you fail at trolling.

Quote from mclarenmatt :

It's ok though what are they gonna do ban us all for 999 days for voicing our opinion? I dont think so.

I don't think so, but there is a difference between voicing your opinion, and creating X accounts to spam a thread...

@SilverArrows77 : Couldn't agree more..

Quote from Chrisuu01 :

Wich IMo would be freakishly awsome

I can't say anything else but : Indeed.

I think AMB will be unbanned when the Scirocco is out...

Then, if he is an arse again, he'll be banned again.

I'm not a fan of large measures like this, but I read a couple of his posts, and that was quite annoying... I mean, he wasn't even new to the game, he should be more respectful...

Quote from Macfox :

What's annoying is people trying to speak for the dev's and defend their position with little to no evidence to backup there assertions. Probably this, possibly that. Jumping to conclusions, by string a few loose words together from posts.

Could you develop the "defend their position" ? Does that refer to the forumer's position, or the dev's position.

Your quote is good, because I can say the total opposite if you meant : defend the devs' position :

"What's annoying is people trying to assert the development of LFS has stopped, and affirm the devs don't work anymore with no evidence and only disputable assumptions to backup their opinions."

If you meant the first sence (defend themselves), then I agree with you.

Nobody knows more than another. This is like a religion war. Both sides have an unverifiable and disputable answer to the same question "What is god ?", and they fight vehemently for that. So let's focus on being happy in the forums, together, we have no need to fight for that.

Or, we could launch a Star Wars Jedi Academy server, and have a "Light Side" (peaceful, patient dev supporters) vs "Dark Side" (angry moaners) team free-for-all, and I'm sure it'll let everyone let the steam off.






And my analogies make total sense.

I really can understand why SamH is irritated. I didn't see the posts by AMB, but every other one I read is very annoying, simply because most of it has been said already. As said, the only reason why this thread is still up is to prevent to pop up of similar threads.

About the silence, let's be logical :

Why do you think Scavier doesn't give anymore time prediction ? Just look at what happened in December.

They do that to protect you from being disappointed if they have to postpone it again. I mean, coding, programming, engineering, building a race car, etc all have the same risk : by the end of the final inspection, you realize something which is like : "Wow, wow WTF is that, this shouldn't behave like this, I have to fix my mistake". And then you delay.

Earlier this year, I came on the forums once per day. Now it's once per week. I don't play LFS anymore, not because I don't like it, but because a touchpad isn't the more appropriate controller to : 1/ Race well ; 2/ Make progress ; 3/ Enjoy your time. By july, I will fly back where my G25 is, and I can assure you guys that Scirocco or not, I will race and win you

You are right to be deceptive about the reason behind the silence ! It's the only way to get surprised when the new patch come out. You will enjoy it even more. So please, keep moaning, because behind your moaning, you show that you still love LFS deep and you trust the developpers to surprise you. Otherwise, if you had no hope, you would just not come back anymore here, deinstall the game, and move on. (Otherwise, if you are hopeless about LFS and still come here to bitch, I suggest you apply my 3 "GET" method to be happy : "Get out ! Get drunk ! Get Laid !" - and for those who are underage no matter where they are around the world, I suggest you do the same... One more step toward manliness !)

And remember when you were a child. Asking your dad 'Are we there yet?' did not make the car go faster

Quote from Terrible3 :

For fun I jump into the BMWF1 and that's scary. While I can put down a few decent lap time here and there I wont race them ever. I may be a very good driver, but a F1 is right on my outer limits of skill. Having cold brakes and tires on the first lap does not help.

Brake heat isn't modelled yet, so you can take that out of the equation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs-jAImScms

This video has been posted a zillion times already, but this is much much more impressive than D1 or what any driftboy in LFS can do

So if Ken block can do it, you too

Quote from G!NhO :

so i can call drifting, Angling or Smoking? because thats what you need in order to win.

Yes ! Yes ! Yes !

However I wouldn't say Smoking... Because I'm a smoker, and sometimes i light up a cigarette when racing over long periods of time. It would create the following confusion : "I'm a smoker" "Go to a smoking server then" "That's not what I meant..."

Angling is very relevant though. Yeah let's take their reasonning, since angles is the principal aspect of Drift competitions, the sport should be called angling. (or perhaps cockdisplaying, since cockdisplay is perhaps the main factor of these peacock fights )

So when is Formula Angle this year ? Are there still many angling servers in LFS ? Because last time I check, there were a lot more anglers than racers...

_____

FYI : Gripping comes from Pro Street... Before the trailers came out, I've never heard any drifter tell the word in the servers, nor nowhere else. If you consider Pro Street as a source for racing history, terminology, techniques and physics, then you fail Sirs.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Or alternatively we can use the WASD keys to simulate the turning process, as we have to circle the WASD keys in a counter clockwise way to make the window go down.

Yeah it's a better idea. But perhaps not WASD, but IJKL. I use S to upshift...

And would you guys really lower your windows during races ?

I would accept only if those weren't electronical windows. You would have to actively tap a button to simulate you turning the lever. Otherwise it's pointless. Showoff has its price...

Well either you return it and have a experienced people looking at it...

Either you clean it yourself, without being sure that you'll succeed, which you don't want to...

The choice is obivous

Hehe I remember two of the best April-fools-day-on-a-forum ever. It was like in 2005, I was playing SWG (Star Wars MMORPG) at that time, and the webmasters of the website made up a fake interview/webpage informing us that the devs of the game made the game free to play ( no more subscription fee).

Everyone was "OOOOOooooooooohooooooo", then when you clicked on the link to register for that promotion, you got RickRolled (it wasn't there at the time, but something in the same spirit).

That was really well done !

EDIT : Plus, the guys really interested in the car don't read that thread, they start new ones, so...

So, do you think on April 1st we will have some news by the devs about the Scirocco ? I mean it's gonna be the end of early 2009 !!


I'll laugh so hard that I'd probably pee on myself seeing all those people who forgot what day it is and got utterly annoyed by the joke !

Last edited by Zen321, Tue 31 Mar 2009, 20:27.

I saw an interesting debate on the previous page.

Just to make sure with you guys. It is not the fact that the devs released information about the Scirocco in december that created all the craze. It is that they gave a release date. It was an information that was too detailed. I'm not complaining about what they have done, and I think they understood that giving too detailed information (especially on the sensitive matter that are release dates) can lead to disproportionned responses for the community.

However, I hope, and am confident, that they will understand that giving some bits of information from times to times is only beneficial. I don't want them to reveal the entire content of the next patch, as I like the surprise effect. But perhaps saying between a third and half of what the patch will bring is going to be a great thing !

Just like this :

"Hey guys, we are pleased to tell you more about S2 Beta Patch C ! We have refined the tire model, fixed the barrier problems and something huge that you have been waiting for years and that will finally arrive sometimes soon, along with other minors yet enjoyable fixes and upgrades."

This is enough. You tell things, but you don't tell all. You ESPECIALLY don't tell about the release dates. And then everyone will be happy. They will have certain information, and won't be disappointed.

I don't think the devs owe us anything and especially don't owe us content. But I think some bits of information every now and then would be more than enjoyable.

People moan not because they are pissed, they moan because they are afraid and because they are uncertain. When the Scirocco was revealed in August (not annouced, revealed), people were afraid it would not be a good update. In november, people moaned because they were afraid of LFS development being worse. Now, they moan because they are uncertain about the new patch date. It's okay to be afraid guys, just don't let your fears take over you

Quote from AndRand :

I hope VW took into account that kids do not buy cars and I dont think they can influence their parents. LFSers are maybe far fewer but percentage interested in VW could be much more. Marketing in arcade games is I think much more long term.

I think it's the other way round but you've got the idea here. Marketing in arcade is more short-term with a broader audience, but that will faint after a year or so. (the highest activity life-span of a NFS title is around 6-7 month). LFS, on the other hand, as other simulators, may have a less wide audience, but will last for longer

@ Bandit 77, I understand your point totally To make my long story shorter, firms are more interested in the relative profit/loss than the currency counterpart When we look at the subprime crisis for example, losing 5 billions for a bank may seem HUGE when looking at the face value, but compared to the total assets-pool monetary value, it may be around 5 to 20% (depending on the bank's size), which isn't *that* bad .
But don't worry, at the level of amounts we are using in our everyday life, I too use the cash value. However, when I want to import/resell a car, I use the percentage to calculate the value of the investment I will do. E.g., I might gain 1000€, but it would be only a gain of 5%, which isn't that attractive at all

Quote from Saldana82 :

in a hotlap i believe what matters most is the time.

i use an xbox 360 controller, cuz i have 2 axis: 1 axis for steering and the other axis for throttle/brake, which is great, because i do have an analog input.

its the best choice, i belive, after a steering wheel.

You might want to use the three analogical axis available.

Aka, the round stuff for the steering, and the two triggers for braking and accelerating. That, with two of the four buttons for upshift, downshifts

Well after the first hairpin it is not as bad. I mean, this guy seems to catch the other drivers in the straight, so he must carry good speed in the corner.

Plus, his last pass seems to be caused by lag, the other car spun because of a lag ghost (he didn't it the back of the opponent car so how else could it snap like this ?).

But the chicane part is actually a pain to see.

Just a question, is Paul N23 Granger a false name ? Otherwise naming and shaming for that matter just because he annoyed you would not be in the sportman's spirit