Quote from Speed Soro :

I hate XRG, I can't find a way to feel it realistic.

Can you please explain? I may have missed a few posts of yours but I don't understand what part of driving the XRG makes you think it is not realistic?

I mean, I never found anything that made it appear to me as unrealistic. A relatively light RWD, with shitty tires and if you don't drive it properly it's mega understeer in entries and spin in exits.
Have you tried it on supers? (with the slicktires mod) If not, try it, and so that you will have a comparison with others cars that have supers and that you consider realistic

Also, I think it is a matter of setups as well. I used to race with a quite stiff setup, and now that I lowered some values it definitely improved the overall available traction. It is just that when you get a setup from someone, they are usually way too stiff/extreme, and since you don't have any other comparison (because every one uses similar setups), you usually tend to think that it isn't realistic at all.

For instance, I tried to modify the homemade XRT set I use for racing, because I wasn't satisfied with its behavior. I lowered the suspension frequency to around 2.18Hz (60 rear - 58 front), and it really feels like a real race car, at the same time having good all around traction. I can get pretty decent times with it (I can make several laps at 101%-2.5s of the WR on KY3/KY3R which is very good to my standards since I drive on a freaking touchpad since september ).

Now, 60-58 are values that may appear very low compared to the LFS standards, but that are the values that are used in RL racing. You might want to try something similar on the XRG (I'd think that 70R-66F would work according to the lighter weight of the car and the different mass repartition), because I think it will help you find the realism in that car

And I'm not your pal, boy.

(That episode is really good)

Quote from garph :

Yeah, could also get some flying monkeys maybe even some naked chicks.

The last thing this thread needs is wild speculation. Why is S3 even being mentioned? You have no idea, I have no idea what’s coming or what being/been worked on so let just leave that alone.

Take it easy boy, I speculate if I want, about what I want, when I want.
If I was bitching about anything, I would understand your reaction, but I'm not. Maybe you don't want to be given hope for later releases so that you don't get disappointed if they don't include what you think.

I included a triple uncertainty in the sentence you quote. "We can suppose" and "we could" are not in my mind signs that I am truly convinced by the pattern I am detailing here. I am with S14 when he says "If its comes, it'll be good, if it doesn't, it'll be good as well.".

On the other hand, I am waiting for the new patch with an untroubled pristine patience. I have other interesting things to do in LFS and I don't see why I should be upset by the patch's delay, since I never drove with the Scirocco, so it's not if something was taken away from me.

So, next time if you don't want to appear like a jerk, please keep your manly aggro in your pants (or you could try to unleash it in a club or in a zoo, you might get naked chicks or flying monkeys in your bed by then )

@ TiricK : We are not yet at the end of early 2009. It usually refers to the period from January to March or even Mid-April

On topic

I sincerely think that some big updates are on the way. There is no way that the Scirocco can be the work of 8 months of dedicating time only to it (especially since VW provided a 3D model to start with, that have been modified by Eric so that it can fit in LFS).

Scawen may have decided to work on the behavior of a multilink suspension to include in the Scirocco (that is what the rear suspension is supposed to be/for the moment it is probably a simple double-wishbone). This could/may be used in other future car releases.

S1 has brought five cars to the game (two were added later : MRT ad FBM). S2 has brought 10 cars to the game (the BF1 was added later and the LX8 was scrapped), so we can suppose that during the elapsed time between the release of S2 and the release of S3, we could get between 13 and 15 new cars, along with other features that are being developed over the long run, but which take time to create and implement (weather, lighting, new tracks, even more realistic physics, etc).

From what I've heard on the forums, some mods like Tweak or Slicktire are not prohibited as long as they have a way to prevent people using them in non-user servers or to prevent people who don't use them to enter servers.

That way, it is not considered as 'cheating' since everyone will have the same tweaked car or the same tire choice.

Quote from brataccas :

If it wasnt for cruise servers id have finished playing LFS years ago in my perspective racing is boring exept when there are huge pileups so I spend 99.99999% of my LFS time on cruise servers

:something

I am in a huge pain to understand how can cruising can be less boring than racing?

Because in cruising, when you arrive to a corner, what you think is:

"Oh god, the hairpin comes... Oh god I DIDN'T BRAKE... OH THAT'S TOO INTENSE! Oh Wait, I'm already at 80kph, so that's okay".

Or when you are about to lap someone

"Haha, this is very gratifying, I managed to catch up the most famous LX6 of the server with my stock UF1, THIS IS SO KEWL ! I'M SO ELITE ! Oh damn, I missed the passing lane, so I can't pass him, I'll have to wait another lap because I don't want to get fined".

It seems to be an interesting idea !

I'm not too fond on oval racing myself, but I wish you bonne chance for the organisation

Semi on topic:

Ovals and road racing are fundamentally different. Road circuits are mainly focused on the technique of the driver, while oval racing is more about the tactique. Being able to take the right stream, take risks while passing, being confident in your team mates and your opponents are aspect that are, even if resent in road circuits, the fundamenals of oval racing.
The funniest part in racing on ovals at high speed is that you get to have close racing all the time. And it is quite hard when you take a no-downforce-no-slicks car (XRT or LX6 are quite hard on bend 3), because you actually have to brake sometimes.

As a result, road circuit racing is emphasizing the affinity between the car, the driver and the track, while oval racing is more focused on having a symbiosis with the rest of the pack.

Very nice to both of you !

Maybe now you'll get hired to decorate drifting events' layouts I bet there'll be nice screenshots taken

Hey everyone !

I've set up the LFS Hillclimb server today. I am still testing it, so I'd like your help on that one
I would like any advices possible for the layout, the server itself if possible !

Currently, the layout is on KY3 on the part between the oval and the straight line to the pits (the long way).
It is narrow and winding. For the moment, the cars allowed are the GTR, the FOX and the FO8 (what you'd see usually in high-specs hillclimb events).
On request, I can allow the use of the road cars.

Come and enjoy ! Your help and presence would be greatly appreciated

Why had someone brought that topic back up ?

Quote from boosterfire :

Well, my grand father recently acquired a lap top (from Dell, I believe). He doesn't seem too bad at it, but he does encounter more problems than the average user does. Learning a new technology or ability is much harder when you're old. Not only because your brain isn't as fit to learn as a young person's brain, but there's also something quite intimidating in learning a completely new technology at that point in your life.

Most of us were born with all those technologies already available (or in the process of emerging), so it doesn't pose that much of problem to us. However, think about this: new technologies will be developed in the next decades, and will you really be willing to learn a completely new thing when you get older? Something you've only heard about, but never touched? It must not be encouraging.

That's exactly true, as it has always be true and will always be. Think about it, our grandparents were very skilled in the typewriters, but their grandparents might have prefered writing. So when the next generation of hologram communicator operated by thoughts will become available (I guess we'll be super old), we will struggle to use them.

That was my point, and I was stating this as a fact without any rudeness intented, sorry if someone took it like this.

Quote from riddim :

What i meant is, he doesnt stay on the oval part and drives instead over the white line which is the boarderline between offical track and short cut, if you dont make a pit stop.
After I´ve seen some league races and also when I raced online on KY Nat (rev) you will get penalty for driving over the white line, acutally I´ve seen someone got banned for driving several times over the white line.

The rules to validate a hotlap and the rules of driving in a league are different. The basis is that a lap is invalid when more than 2 wheels of a car are outside the track limits.
But here is the main difference :
- in Real Life and most leagues : Track = what is between the two white lines that are on the road.
- in the hotlap validation chart : Track = Everything but pits, grass and objects.

So his hotlap isn't invalid according to the LFS rules, but is it according to some leagues rules

Quote from NightShift :

Of course there are. Don't you think you're being a little disrespectful here?

Just because a person is 70 years old it doesn't mean he/she is a moron or has never seen a computer in his life. Even before the PC (which, if I may remind it to you, it's already 30 yo) there were terminals and a number of people who worked with computers in business and academical environments as well.

I set up a linux box for a relative who's approaching 70 and another one keeps asking me and he's well in his 60s...

OTOH when I was a kid there were high hopes that all the new generations would learn to use a computer in the future.

Nowadays we are left with a bunch of teens who are not any better than their grannies! They can go on all day long tinkering on their iThings and electronical gadgets but using a computer is often a challenge to them beyond the most basic tasks.

Technically savvy people are a transversal group, age means relatively little to them.

Hey take it easy !

I didn't mean to often your mom/granny, it's not the point.
My point is that when you are not born in an environment possessing a specific technology, there are great chances that you will learn to use it with greater pain.

E.g. my dad is good at computers, I am better than him, and my little sister than is 11yo younger than me is more proficient than me.
Did I say that no person aged 60 or older will never use a computer? No, I didn't.

So stop taking the piss and get some fun.

Quote from jbirdaspec :

I second that. I don't see a reason to make it a miata with licensing. But an inspired car to add to LFS. It is used here in the USA and I'm sure in other parts of the world for spec racing and club events. I believe because of it's real world exceptance as a race vehicle and it's affordable in real life would make it a great addition to LFS.

Personally I would like to see the LFS implementation of this type of car rather then real world licensing. I think tracks like FE Club, South Citry Chicane and Blackwood would be a real treat in this type of vehicle.

Just my 2 cents.

Jay Odom

That's true. I've read something about specmiata in the US, it seems really big !

The only problem with the car system right now in LFS is that imho the road car classes don't exhibit much variety.

Take the LRF class for instance. The three cars have their weight biased toward the back by quite a significant percentage, which makes the handling, even if really different, somewhat the same for each of three.

I'd say the TBO class is the most varied in the road cars, because the three cars really behave differently.

So what would be awesome in LFS is including cars that can be fitted in different classes. Since the LX4 is a competitor to the TBO class on most tracks, it would be sweet to include a car that can actually compete with the LX4 in the autocross field AND with LX4+TBO on a track.

I would like to see more competitors to the LRF class, being nice supercars. For instance, a Corvette Z06 or an Aston Martin (heavier than the FZ5 but more powerful).
I would love to see those fitted in the GTR class, so that by adding weight and intake penalties you can turn those GTR into GT3 (basically a stockish engine on a stockish frame, with slicks and downforce allowed). That would be extremely nice!
I tried fitting slicks on the LRF class for testdriving, and the behavior is really amazing, you really feel the true possibility of the cars! The RAC on R2s is on 3 wheels or 2 when taking fast bends and accelerating, that's pretty sick

Also, a Miata-like with two more small cars, with the emphasize on handling rather than power would be very nice and could create a S1600 class, a lot used in rallyes.

Quote from JasonJ :

You forgot

4. People that won't play it at all because they don't know how to unzip/install it...... 25%

Although that figure is probably generous.

/facepalm

Yeah this is slightly too much. I'd say that it would be around 2 to 3%.

Probably of the older generation (60 to 75), but then are some people in LFS THAT old ?

Yeah even less perhaps, because 5% means that 40 person today would have paid.

1% is 8, so perhaps even less.

Its a good idea, but instead of putting them on the windshields, why not put them on the side rear windows above/below/next to the license name? Like if I drive an FXR, there'll be Zen321 written on the side rear windows, so why not get the user plate text right above that ? (could be useful for league numbers, etc).

So that people can still have the windshield advert used for skinning (possibly including sponsor, team name, etc). So we will gain space on the skin (numberplate + window banner) and still have that information in a place where it is easy to see.

Well, from what I remember when I worked in the development branch of my ex company, when targeting a broad range of customers, it is very good if you manage to get 5% of those to buy your products. It's the standard good average return rate, so we can try to figure out what is th epurchase rate compared to the demo

Maelstrom, I thought you'd be more optimistic for a French guy !

At least we still have happy hours in the bars, so we can do something else instead of waiting for the Scirocco in front of the computer

Or you guys can come try my Hillclimb test server

BTW, Nice score for the LFS demo ! Do you know how many times it has been downloaded ?

Don't we have the replay analyser/comparer already built in LFS World ? It has some telemetric info, but I never used it tbh

Thanks for the precisions Tristan, I guess I'll have to read more

So what should be the optimal frequency for the LX ? around 2Hz as well ?

One more question, it might look stupid but...

Should we choose the springsd according to their undamped frequency, or should it doesn't matter that much if we consider the damped frequency ?

Hey !

Just a little suggestion here. Everybody knows that the lighter a car is, the higher the spring frequency it will need will be. For instance, a car like the FXO requires springs that are between 2.2 and 2.3Hz, while a light car like the LX4 or the UFR would need something around 3.0-3.2Hz.

The spring stiffness is directly linked to the spring's frequency. The stiffer a spring will be, the higher will be its frequency. However, in LFS, for the light cars (except the formulas with downforce), we can't select springs that should be stiff enough to acheive those frequencies because the selection range's maximum is lower that the optimum spring rate.

So my point is :

Allow us to select stiffer springs for the light road cars and baby GTR. The XRT is too heavy to require springs that have a stiffness of 160, while 120 should be appropriate for the UFR or the LX4.

From what i've heard, this versiond doesn't work.

There's been an update on lfs database, you should get the very latest want, otherwise stick to the outsim one ^^

I think allowing one team to develop parallel upgrades for LFS would be extremely good, but I don't think the devs are up for this.

For example, look at the LFS RallyPack... It was supposed to be in development three years ago by a team, and in later interview with Victor, we learned that the project was dropped.

Three questions arise with this idea:
- How can you choose the right teal to do the job? The devs and the new team will obviously have different goals (including real-life tracks/how an official upgrade team would be considered in respect to the licensing legislation?).
- How will the devs be sure that the team won't suffer leak of the source code (that coule be sold/picked up by other developpers to upgrade their own product)?
- What return expectation would the new team get? Free, passionate work is good, but we can see what happened to the CTRA team (great job during those years btw). No material returns = less incentive to produce and less incentive to produce over time.

Yep I've heard that as well.

But I wouldn't mind the customizable Grid Girls as well (like make their clothes having the same pattern as your team/skin - Choose her measurements like the tires (A, B, C... plus how inflated they are), the hair like the wheel colors, ride height for the legs, etc... I'm sure it'd give some pretty hard front roll-bars to some kiddos here on the forum )... Anyway I should get back to my economics assignement, I'm disgressing A LOT.