For now they are purely graphical, but it does seem to suggest interesting possibilities for the future.

I'll be a few more hours, the changes are merged into the public version and it's fairly well tested, but I need to update the test facility in the vehicle editor or it will be too frustrating to use.

Let's make that this afternoon. I still need to:

- make spinners carry on and stop in the default position
- update vehicle editor to allow testing by switches
- merge code into old LFS
- more testing

Today I have coded part of the more flexible moving objects system.

You can select object type:
"Rotator : rotates on a specified axis",
"Slider : slides along a specified axis",
"Spinner : spins on a specified axis",

And connect to:
"Lights : low or high beam",
"Ignition : ignition switch",
"Rear fog : rear fog light",
"Front fog : front fog light",
"Left ind : left indicator",
"Right ind : right indicator",
"Extra : extra light",
"Horn : horn button",
"Siren : activate with siren",

I think that's as far as I can go, there isn't time this week to code other options such as connecting with other rotating parts or controller axes. For 0.7E it will only be these these boolean switches, sort of like the headlight, but now you can connect to these 9 things and these 3 different motion types.

I hoped to release it this evening but it's taken so long, and I still have to merge all the changes from the development version into the public version. That might only take a couple of hours but I'll have to do it in the morning. This evening I still have to finish the editor side of it.

I really liked the ability to move nodes in editor when I had the suspension tab (Shift + L) open, it was a lot easier to dial in the caster and inclination quickly.

Also I am finding that for some specific offroad vehicles I want to be able to set the spring rate lower than the game allows, is it possible to change the lower limit for that?

Quote from OpenClutch :

I think I found a bug between the editor and game version, when using a skin to paint on the hvac on my mod, I have it set for full flip, so the texture should not flip when going between driving sides.

In the editor, it seems to transition sides correctly, in the game the texture flips.

Gold handle is game (incorrect) red handle is editor (correct)

OK, as Flame says, there was a change.

I have two questions, please let me know the answers.

1) Are you sure it's different between game and editor, if you use the latest game and editor? This was changed yesterday, and should be consistent (even if "wrong") if you use editor and game D56 or later.

2) Assuming that you install the editor and game D56 or later, and find they are consistent but wrong, can you try renaming your mapping starting "U_" e.g. "U_name". This special prefix should avoid the flip, the only problem is you can't have it as a user custom colour in that case (as they start M1_ and C1_ etc. Is that a problem in your case?

I think I found a bug between the editor and game version, when using a skin to paint on the hvac on my mod, I have it set for full flip, so the texture should not flip when going between driving sides.

In the editor, it seems to transition sides correctly, in the game the texture flips.

Gold handle is game (incorrect) red handle is editor (correct)

Man, I was browsing the mod list and I seen a 1020hp electric vehicle, and I was like "how can I do this? I'm still limited to 671hp." Is there an editor update I'm missing or something? Let me know!

Quote from Slashpca :

I wasn't sure where to post this, but maybe it could be a fix for both pop ups and rotating objs? I have layered alpha glass pop ups on my EMPERORS SUNRISE mod that seem to work fine, but I created a swing out windscreen for my FLATTY MODEL 8, and it works as intended besides this strange bug with the windscreen alpha. Same alpha I had before I broke it off as a pop up light subob.

I reported it in the Editor test patch thread and Scawen is aware of it: https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/2068959#post2068959

I wasn't sure where to post this, but maybe it could be a fix for both pop ups and rotating objs? I have layered alpha glass pop ups on my EMPERORS SUNRISE mod that seem to work fine, but I created a swing out windscreen for my FLATTY MODEL 8, and it works as intended besides this strange bug with the windscreen alpha. Same alpha I had before I broke it off as a pop up light subob.

I've seen this bug before, like for instance the alpha glass on my pending mod HYPERION, in the pits and in vehicle editor you get this same effect on the mirror turn signals. But they seem to be corrected once you spawn on track, this windscreen is not fixing itself.

I've tried, flipping tris, single and double sided, moving the page with S_glass_alp up and down the list to change it's order in the Textures tab in the editor. Nothing works so far.

Please see the attached photo.

Quote from Rubbel_31 :

Can you fix the Alpha problem? The glass is visible but the back side is invisible

Here's Scawen's post in the Editor test patch thread:

Quote from Scawen :

I will look to see if I can draw the alpha parts of subobjects just before the alpha of the main object, instead of immediately after each subobject as they have been done until now, which was fine for glass on steering wheels.

Sent a car from editor, but still this message appears. D54 editor version. Uploaded straight after. and file uploaded is a 7z so nothing edited there

Quote from YukselYilmaz :

*10-) LFS can be open source, so that it can get to the level it has come to in decades in a few weeks. Drivers can agree among themselves to bring the optimization they want.

Open source is does not magically compact a decade of work into a few weeks.
Usually in OS contributors work only on the project in their free time. Rarely does that mean a more than a few hours per week.
People tend to be unreliable, they take long random breaks or quit without notice.
Money is a necessary evil that allows developers to concentrate on LFS instead of working 12 hours per day in a steel mill or coding 850MB sized printer drivers or whatever.

It is also interesting to look at other open source racing games, for example Speed Dreams:
http://www.speed-dreams.org/
It is based on TORCS and if you see that as its starting point then it has been in development longer than LFS.
Speed Dreams is a great project and it even has some features LFS does not have. For example weather or track editor. If I recall, mentioning it due to recent interest: it even has live delta timing!
But in my opinion LFS is overall more advanced and polished.

Regarding bugs and abuse of certain flaws, those do exist in every game.
iRacing has maybe the biggest budget of all racing games and even there players continue to find new exploits like "brake dragging" or "driving on grass."

Quote from CRAAACH :

The fact that he won't care bout this post doesn't means he disregards all the ideas this post tries to sell

The problem was simply that this was originally posted in a Test Patch thread. There is a sticky "Rules" thread and important messages are repeated with big colored letters in first post of current thread. It is nothing to take personal, it has always been that off topic routinely gets removed there.

A bug which I can't reproduce in 0.7C but at least since 0.7D27:

- in Vehicle Editor, add passengers in one of the default setups
- enable "driver" in bottom right
- change to a different setup without passengers

The passenger models aren't updated in the car until I toggle "driver" off and on again.

There's not much time left for testing so here are today's editor updates, which I am releasing to get them tested ASAP, although I know there are other things still to do. I hope you will find these updates useful.

Changes in Editor 0.7D54:

Lights tab in Vehicle Editor:

FIX: Subobject lights did not visibly update in editor when adjusted

Modeller:

Merge subobject dialog : use selected layer / keep existing layers
Improved layer selection (tooltips change when CTRL is pressed)
- in orange/yellow mode : CTRL+RMB sets the selected layer
- tri mode : CTRL+LMB - select all triangles in layer

Modeller hotkeys / shortcuts:

Keys to select modes changed to numbers 1 to 8 (without SHIFT)
SHIFT+M / SHIFT+S - show main / show subobs

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106004

Quote from Flame CZE :

I don't think "opposite" will work for this case. I don't have mirrored triangles on the opposite side - the sides have different triangles.

I was thinking about two cutouts for one side, not for the whole bus. Let us have 4 different side cutouts:
A - with doors, B - without doors, C - with doors flipped, D - without doors flipped. Then the right side mapping would be defined as cutout A with opposite D and the left side as cutout B with opposite C. Of course, in case that it is an editor bug, this is only a workaround.

Found a bug. The light colour preview isn't getting updated for the newly supported subobjects (atleast my steering wheel subob here.) It works fine ingame, the color is updated ingame, but not in real time in editor for some reason. Here's a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E28GS1U3ps

Editor Test Patch D53:

Lights:

Lights now work on subobjects (e.g. bike handlebars)
New object type "Popup headlight"
- set axis, angle and time of rotation in modeller
- test using slider bar in vehicle editor Lights tab

Modeller:

Option to keep an empty (rotated) subobject after "merge into main"
- and break off main object into rotated subobject works as expected
- for example the following sequence of operations is now possible:
1) rotate a subobject to convenient orientation for modelling
2) merge into main but keep the empty rotated subobject
3) model and map the subobject in that position
4) break off into the rotated empty subobject

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106004

On my Karobus 734, I'm trying to support driver side swap. I want to mirror the entire body of the bus, because the doors need to be on the correct side. But when I test it with the right side driving position, the side mapping is incorrect.




Here's my left/right swap mode:



To illustrate this issue better, I've made a simple box car with labelled side mappings. When I select right driver side, the mappings are oriented in such a way that front part of the mapping is actually located at the back of the car.




What I would like to achieve is to have the mappings flipped horizontally when drive side is swapped:



Is there a way to do this in the editor?

Quote from Günni92 :

Regarding the sequential gearboxes:

I see that they are not as popular as I expected them to be . I am open for discussion about changing one or more cars over to H pattern.
We could look at all cars in the "class" (Supertourer and Clubsport 300) and define, which change on the Clubsport cars would provide the most variety (e.g. we don't need multiple RB4 with sequential). I will put that on my todo-list and am open for your ideas.

After a test drive, these “Clubsport” versions are very pleasant to drive. Just enough power to not fall asleep and force you to reach the limit. It's very stimulating. Too bad the AI is totally insignificant on the track (especially on Rockingham). Perhaps there is something to improve here with the AI setup? The settings offered are indeed very perfectible, especially that of the FZ5. Otherwise (I know this will shock purists...) why not make special versions of cars for AI? (while waiting for the new tires physics and its new AI, of course )

Regarding gearboxes (I can't be objective here, as I only drive H gearbox ) I think the XRT & RB4 could be with an H gearbox. Apart from comfort, I don't see not really the use of the sequential gearbox with this kind of gear ratio. I would even tend to consider that all these cars would gain in charisma by being in H gearbox (I actually converted them to drive them).

The current mod system is essentially (at the moment) a vehicle editor. Real "race" categories are missing to select and sort the mods in order to compose grids. The mod system needs something specifically dedicated to racing. This “Clubsport” category could serve as a model here. Many models already created could complete this category if their specifications were adapted for this.

Don't give up on Günni92. You are on the right path.

Hi everyone,
My suggestion is to implement on off curves for lights (fade-in, fade-out) (for headlights , instrument cluster lights, etc.) that are adjustable in LFS Editor (because of different bulb technologies used).

I feel like this can really add to the immersion and realism instead of the current boolean texture light on / texture light off feel that is simply dated by modern standards.

I realize that this would currently make little difference in the way the game feels however I think it would be much more noticeable once the full lighting update is released.


Here is an example that I found and liked a few years back (watch the rear brakes at 1:58):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3daK_doWl0g&t=118s

Hello. This is my newly created account, some of you know me. I have been using LFS for about 20 years. I want to get straight to the point, this post will probably serve only as an ornament. I mistakenly posted this in the "TEST PATCH" section, every human being can make mistakes, but I got an extreme reaction from Scawen, so I deleted it and I keep writing in this section, which is where he said it is. Scawen said he doesn't care about my opinion no matter what the circumstances and he won't read my post. But since my priority is the users, since I've been talking about this with my friends on LFS for the last five years, and since I've spent more than two hours on this post, I'll address the shortcomings that caught my eye and get straight to the point.

First of all, the asphalt on LFS is like slime. I don't know why, apart from that: People can downshift unrealistically without damaging the engine, they can handbrake dozens of times per second on a memorized race track, they can put the car on the racing line, and they can even set world records doing it. But what would happen if they actually did these things? If they kept downshifting the same way, they would probably die before they even got into the corner because they wouldn't do the Heel-And-Toe shifting. Realistic driving techniques should be at the forefront and physics improvements should be made to keep everything as realistic as possible.

For example, brake disks should heat up realistically and the sounds from the brake disks should be audible. Tires should cool down faster, just like in real life, and the drifting technique should be faster in some corners, just like in real life. On a racetrack where the racing line is memorized, you can't set a world record by handbraking hundreds of times a second and then just sitting the car into the corner without any technique. The grip limit is unrealistically high or can be increased by unrealistic actions by drivers. The grip limit definitely needs to be lowered. There are unrealistic responses when adjusting pressure, camber and toe settings in the vehicle settings, for example, toe settings do not have the necessary effect on the tires. When driving at abnormal and unrealistic grip speeds, tire temperatures can be fixed very easily and driving can continue. When high speeds are reached, the car's response is often unchanged and the feeling of high speed is insufficient.

Let me ask you a question, how many people in real life can drive like in LFS without realizing it? To be honest, if you're going to drive realistically in LFS, it's harder to drive at the same speed as people who drive unrealistically than it is to race Senna in real life. I'm a former street racer and an active licensed retro racer and these are the biggest shortcomings I feel.

My requests from the developers are as follows:
1) Lowering the grip limit and improving the response between the asphalt and the tires. Better optimization of the asphalt.
2) Tires to cool down in about the same time as in real life.
3-) Physics improvements that have the same consequences as in real life when not driven with the correct driving technique.
4-) Accurate modeling of the effect of Camber, Toe and Pressure settings on the vehicle in LFS.
5-) Physics improvements that will not allow the clutch limit to be increased by drivers with unrealistic moves.
6-) Between drift and grip, grip is not always faster, drift can be a faster technique in some corners. But this is not the case in lfs. There may be many reasons for this and some of these reasons are related to my requests 1,2 and 5.
7-) Damage to mechanical parts when incorrect driving techniques are applied, as in real life. Mechanical parts should also be damaged during an accident.
8-) To feel the high speed when driving at high speeds and to improve the car's reaction to this high speed.
*9-) Definitely and definitely make a track editor program. Users should be able to model tracks and thus avoid driving on the same tracks all the time.*
*10-) LFS can be open source, so that it can get to the level it has come to in decades in a few weeks. Drivers can agree among themselves to bring the optimization they want. If the original version is left untouched, a program like "Content Manager" can be made, just like in AC.*

There is much more to say. These are not improvements that cannot be made, these improvements can be made and LFS can come to a much better place. I would especially like to draw your attention to my requests number 9 and 10. Please comment below this post, I have no bad intentions but I am not treated well by the developers. These are my demands and requests as an experienced user of LFS. Thank you very much.

Last edited by YukselYilmaz, Tue 5 Dec 2023, 13:55.

Quote from Flame CZE :

If you used LFS Editor test patch D50 or higher to update the mods, then you must also use LFS D50+ in order to see them.

i do have have the latest version on both editor and lfs but does the servers need update too for me to see?

If you used LFS Editor test patch D50 or higher to update the mods, then you must also use LFS D50+ in order to see them.

Quote from Scawen :

WARNING: INCOMPATIBLE UPDATE!
TEST PATCH D50 IS REQUIRED AND YOU MUST BE ON A D50 HOST
OFFICIAL VERSION SHOULD BE RELEASED IN MID-DECEMBER

if you didn't make interior for rhd, could you lock it to lhd at least? that's 1 click in editor
also fix the engine, it says it has to be 6 cylinder in description

Will there be language options for the editor ?