get involved in racing and get over hotlap times, I'd suggest much more rewarding, I've found...

Quote from XCNuse :

lol you kinda took everything out of that equation by getting laterial G's.. anyways, motion rigs... suck.. lol its not that they are bad, they are extremely well thought out and whatnot, but its still .. not near what it is supposed to do, its impossible to "make" that many effects act through just a few hydrolic pistons, you have vertical G's and lateral G's.. thats 2 aspects, some companys dont do such a good job with those even at that, as for the fact that the forces are acting on you the entire time.. all a machine would do is just maybe tilt you sideways or something, but you still wouldnt be experiencing but a miniscule amount of lateral G's for only a few milliseconds

Sounds like you've never tried one. I haven't either, but I've had the theory explained pretty well. Google will do a much better job than me. Tilting someone sideways and keeping their vision angled the same (ie, screen following same movement) causes them to feel lateral G's, because they believe they are still upright and gravity is now acting on their sides, to a degree. Obviously there are limits to the amount of force gravity can apply, but apparently the same technique is used in fairly hardcore military sim type stuff to good effect.

Quote from mrodgers :

If that is a response to the post above your's, then you are so wrong. It is completely different. As good as driving simulation is and can be, you simply don't feel the same thing. You don't feel the g-forces under accelleration, braking, or cornering. You don't get that feeling in your stomach when you crest over a sharp hill. You don't feel the wind buffetting against your car or tossing you around like in RL. You don't feel the impact into the tire barrier or the corner of the car you just hit.

How can my personal opinion be 'wrong'?? I've given up track days since getting involved in the 'race' scene of LFS, and don't even bother with as many mountain drives. I get my thrill seeking motorsport rushes primarily from my dirtbike now, as I don't find what I was doing in the car to be as worthwhile when I exercise my brain in a similar (in many ways better, because I'm actually 'racing' and have to practice, setup, etc) manner just sitting at home.

funny... I don't find it that different, if I use the gtt as an example. The mind and body are doing all the same things, it just feels and looks a little different.

went from 130fps on 5.10 to 125fps on 5.13. voted for all ok, a few fps is a non issue. athlon 2600 (no ht) and gecube 9550.

Quote from Vain :

2. You can use a dualscreen-setup when you have a dualhead GFX-board. You should be able to adjust the FOV accordingly, spread the screen over two monitors, turn the custom view in LFS 45° to the right and then you should see the front view on the left monitor and the right view on the right monitor.

It's quite evident you haven't tried this There is not enough camera adjustment to make it at all functional. Couldn't really work out why it was so terrible myself.

I guess I was thinking more of a 'wind the throttle plates open' idle adjust than an ecu managed idle control. (driving an 80's efi sportscar you get used to ignoring ecu controls!) No doubt you're right and you wouldn't do it in a real car (to the degree I have anyway) because of braking concerns... not sure if that's a good reason not to have it or not though Maybe it's a good reason to have brake heat and wear simulated

As for flywheel weight, it would make a fairly signifigant difference to traction over bumps / speed of rpm increase during loss of traction, and would be a very nice thing to have simulated once (if?) proper clutch control is available.

I've read 'engine improvement' suggestion threads before and they always seemed unnecessary, verging on ridiculous... just thought things like this would make more sense though. Obviously I'm not suggesting it's at all a necessity, just that it would be an 'improvement'.

right, the only thing that seperates 'them' from 'us' is the fact they're out there doing it! Not that they're mythical heroes with balls of steel and loads of natural talent

it's all very well to pick and choose snippets that sound funny... I'm not here to win a courtroom case, I'm here for a discussion. Am happy to be shown to be wrong, as I was very clearly regarding the endurance some forms of racing need, didn't put enough thought in initially. If it makes you feel good to try and rub my face in that acknowledgment then go for your life!

As far as natural talent goes, like I said much earlier in the piece, it depends what level of 'good' you want to talk about. I don't think there'd be many people that would dispute Michael Schumacher has a touch of natural talent up his sleeve, but what about the mid pack runners in a local saloon car race? I dispute the idea that these guys are anything particularly special. Sorry to cause you such ongoing confusion.

Quote from Clownpaint :

That's not true, but then neither is what he's saying. They are both very physically demanding. It just sounds like tit for tat at the moment.

"MY BIKE PWNZ j00z CARS"
"YEAH U TRY RACING MY KART IT PWNZ JooR BIKE!!"

you're right, the potential for it to be taken like that probably didn't help the point at all. Surely, car racing can still be a valid and great sport, without it's physical requirements being of the highest level? There are plenty of old blokes still highly competitive, (obviously not in all forms) whereas many highly demanding sports they're finished by mid 30's...

Sorry, I'd have stopped by now, I feel like everything I've said is being taken out of context though ah well.

Quote from Modoff :

Obliously an lfs er.

"I could hammer my car around a track all day long"

Ok what are you driving a kia. with nice cushions seats and nice soft suspension to absorb all the bumps.

So you think that it is not physically demanding because it doesnt look like it is, looks are decieving. I race karts and a lot of my friends ride dirt bikes quads etc. One race in my kart is way more pyhsically demanding then an hour ride on a quad or dirtbike.

Well as far as you saying that there is no need for natural talent, that is VERY VERY wrong.

Blowtus you shouldnt go around posting about stuff you have no idea. If you have never been in a race car how can you sit there and say its not pyshically demanding, You have no idea so pls dont act like you do.

rx7 turbo, but you're right that it's much more comfortable than the majority of race cars, though I don't see that racing in a 'stock' car class makes you not a 'real racer' either. The point that racing can be very tiring has already been accepted.

I never said there is no need for natural talent, just that I don't believe it's as necessary to achieve success in racing as in many other sports, because the money / time factor is so much more important. (than many other sports) I suspect the same would be true of the huge ocean powerboat racing, around the world yacht racing, space shuttle racing... etc

excellent point Gunn, completely ignored that aspect of the endurance required. Still believe in the other points, and still highly respect those talented enough to be champions.

Clownpaint, what should I read? Some heroic tales of 'real racer' daring do, written by folk like you who love to talk it up?

Quote from Clownpaint :

This is what the thread is all about, you are obviously a LFS'er. That's just not the sort of thing Real Racers would say, because they have experienced it.

you obviously know me very well You clearly hold 'real racers' in some very high esteem, are you one yourself or just a fanboy? I think racing is great, but I don't delude myself with ideas that the drivers are superheroes, very different to the average person...

my trailbike requires a hell of a lot more pure physical ability (strength, endurance, reactions, etc) on a casual ride, let alone an enduro event or the like, than the average race car event, from what I've seen. I could hammer my car around a track all day long and hop out a little stiff and tired, but not too bad. I've not been involved in anything involving panel rubbing, but I can't see that it would make the dramatic differences you seem to imply. I would contend that anyone with the desire, given enough seat time could become competitive in many forms of racing. I believe this to be true for racing a little more than many other sports, though all have some element of this.

Last edited by Blowtus, Sat, 31 Dec 2005 03:58.

Quote from MAGGOT :

Its not just a matter of being exposed to racing, to be a GOOD race car driver you NEED natural talent. All drivers will tell you that. You can only learn/develop so much skill. You need to have it to start with.

Also, race car drivers don't loose their fear, its always with them. They just gain more confidence. There's an old quote, something along the lines of "If you're not afraid, you shouldn't be racing a car."

MAGGOT

Depends how 'good' you mean by good. There are plenty of good drivers and riders who get knocked back because they don't have the sponsorship dollars and connections. I disagree you need natural talent, time in the car and a functional brain can get over most hurdles, racing really isn't that physically demanding or anything, it's just a bunch of learned responses...

fear is a part of it, as far as ability to learn the track / laptimes go. I don't know that race drivers are anything particularly special though, just folk interested in motorsport who've had the opportunity many didn't. Karting is great fun, if I wasn't obsessed with trailbiking on the weekends I'd probably be into that. Would rather be rallying or circuit racing, but don't have the $$$ or time to put the effort in. Same situation as many into lfs, I'd imagine?

don't really see why they'd include the sound effects of a propriety engine management system, that has little use in racing, and produces stupid torque steps...

Much rather they spent the time making the engines sound like engines.

a 4 stroke with double the capacity will outpower a conventional carb fed 2 stroke no worries. Sorry to help in the dragging off topic of this thread!

don't really see how 6th would help it much myself. more gears are more useful in cars where the power output is quite peaky. road cars particularly have broad power curves and slow gear changes... gears are great for 'real life' driving, for economical cruising...

pointing out someones 'stupid' thinking on one subject is a bit different to calling them stupid.
the number of racers online at any given moment is not the responsibility of the devs...

Dethred: Why would you pay for an unfinished game, and then complain that you paid for an unfinished game? seems pretty backward to me!

I've done a number of basic trackdays... not exactly 'racing', just throwing the car about.

can't you guys just get involved in some leagues or something and quit worrying about progress reports??

I didn't think you got the effect with anything less than a locked diff, but am unsure. I'm not convinced you'd get that effect in real life either mind you. Would be interested to see. I have a vague suspicion in lfs it would come down to the same problem as the rwd's, just reversed, because the driven wheels are pointing into the corner, rather than out of.

did your old man's mini have a locked dif and large anti roll bar at the rear?