And just a single MR model and a single >2.5 liter engine in all of road legal and GTR models. Not a single V4/6/8 in any road models.

Last edited by Breizh, Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:10.

Quote from Scawen :

And that required the change of emphasis on the S numbers to refer only to your license and separate that from the software version. It's a different way of thinking that allows us to take up opportunities if they arise.

That makes sense

Something else than a small capacity four cylinder.

What a joke... Gotspeed why don't you stop talking and go write a quick demo of this easy smoke, tailored to LFS' performance/platform requirements. You can come back in a week or a month and prove everyone wrong. Till then it's all talk.. Vaporware.

6 pages and it's obvious the kid is an armchair programmer. If it's so easy, why isn't he doing it?

Quote from Electrik Kar :

Why'd you say that? They're certainly been updated. Looks fine to me.

The stands are empty.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

You're feeling left out I suppose

Nope.. The game'll be done when it'll be done.. That's all I care about. The longer it takes the better it'll be. I have plenty of crap to do to keep me busy, so to me 2 years ago when I stopped playing is like yesterday.

The only thing I'm disappointed with is that there's no sign of a big block road car and/or MR-engined GTR. The FR roadster is one of the (if not the) simplest staple designs in motorsports. It belongs in LFS.. People would be all over it. I frankly can't see any negatives in its addition. An MR Ferrari-like would concievably be more tricky to do right - the balance and finesse etc. But something like a ZR1 Corvette is dead simple. And they don't even have to do a replica, it just needs to have that same simple, fire breathing character.

Quote from 5haz :

Why don't they speak up then? Silence only fuels the speculation.

Yeah, Scavier are doing voodoo magic to force people to speculate. It's really all their fault that people gossip like a grandma's knitting club.

Quote :

I'll say again, Rockingham is a completely different track, Kyoto is relatively fast and sweeping, Rock's infield road courses are quite a bit tighter and shorter. the oval is a completely different layout and is banked far steeper than Rockingham, Kyoto is also much longer than Rock.

Theres more to it than them both just being ovals with road courses.

Let's hope so. It looks really flat.

Last edited by Breizh, Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:01.

It's like everybody's on the design committee.

Puppies and sunshine baby!

Quote from Takumi_lfs :

Track doesnt even look so special.... I hope that it wont be released for lfs. I think that they made that track special for "where you played it"

iWhine

Quote from anttt69 :

I hope they put Bobs stock car mod in & give us a new roval.

^^^^^^^^
What he said.

Quote from Luke.S :

i hope this is true. It will be the first ever real lfs track. And it will mean people don't complain.

It looks like a pretty flat track.

Quote from aroX123 :

Scirocco + new track!!!!!!!!!!! best combo evver!

And the first feasible LFS:reality comparison.

Last edited by Breizh, Sun, 20 Sep 2009 13:44.

Aren't you done writing a sim as good as LFS yet? What's the hold-up??

Quote from gotspeed :

actually i have, i use to use iron cad a lot in high school and i had friends of mine that did 3d animation on the cad design of our robot for first robotics. the animation was a exact copy of our finished robot and was animated for award that we could win. so if a few high school students can put together a 2 min video using a replica of there robot that they are building at the same time and have it turn out pretty good 3 programers working on lfs shouldn't have any problem having more smoke come off the cars.

Then you should have no trouble handling a whole game on your own. Shake a leg!

Quote from gotspeed :

how is it that one guy with 3d max or what ever can render his own car and realistic smoke. yet after 4+ years 3 guys working on a sim can't get smoke right.

Inaccurate and unrealistic WRT development and processing budgets.

Quote from gotspeed :

the lfs devs must have never done a big smoky burn out. until the tires and smoke physic are better lfs won't be a real simulator

You've never done a successful world class racing simulator on your own.

Quote from CUPRAMAN :

" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUSZPMl5JsI

I think that the guy who start the topic has never done racing driving. All REAL tracks have curbs that can flip you in a sec. wach the video from real life-physics and LFS is very close to that...

That's the one.. Thanks The original version was twice as long and even higher resolution. Something like 50MB.

Anyone know where to find that very high resolution slow motion clip of a (Le Mans?) red and white Porsche going over a curb, with the camera zoomed in on the curb/tires/lower bodywork? Was filmed a couple of years ago and was hard to find back then because youtube & co didn't exist yet.

And given the new tire physics coming, curb flips ought to be a little more difficult to trigger.

Quote from aoun :

You've missed the point, I agree with your post but it has nothing to do with that, just a statistic for the devs to see what the community is after. Absolutely nothing to do with democracy or us being in charge.

It maybe isn't a good idea, just came in to my head, thought it MAY be useful, but it may not be too.

The forum would be a biased sample.

The reason LFS forum threads turn to that, Woz, isn't that everyone else is a troll or somehow not at your high horse level, but that everyone says that same thing when someone disagrees and that everyone just walks off when someone pulls an ad hominem or other ridiculous argument out of their pants instead of pointing it out for the nonsense it is.
Lotta people like to egg Tristan for being a prick, supposedly, but the real problem is that he nails people with cogent and on target arguments - regardless how much he rubs it in - and that leaves the nitwits with nothing but falling back to trolls, ad hominems, etc.

I'm not spinning or wrapping anything in any semantics. Points ladders like WRC aggregate standings, and league and championship standings, and hotlapping competitions aren't achievements, they're distinct and separate; you're conflating them.
I just don't see how achievements are a positive addition to LFS. The "achievement" format just does not fit what the game is about, IMO. That's my opinion and I'm only giving it because you insist I'm ignoring your suggestions. While they're ok suggestions, they're not that compelling either because you can do all of that yourself right now. So the real problem that this solution is looking for is people with ADD or amnesia or something. People who don't care enough about the game to think about or notice, or chase after these things.

I don't think they're a negative. They're just kinda pointless. They'd only be worthwhile IMO after LFS had gotten much further in development. Like final Sx beta or so. The only positive I do see is getting people to try out less common combos, but it'd be a bandaid fix. It wouldn't be a durable solution to that drought of combos.

You're bowing out because the discussion is this big and it's this big because there's so much BS in it. You can dish out the quote'o-matic but you can't take it.

I have played Il2 on near- and full-real since the days it came out and I have stick time in real plane. I also know real pilots who fly Il2 and other flight sims, including simmers dating all the way back to '93, among them a few people in the aero industry (e.g. restorers) who have studied and interviewed WWII pilots, one pilot from the real topgun, and a number of experienced military pilots. The criticisms I made about Il2 are accurate. The flight model isn't the most accurate there is... That alone shows you're clueless. The strawman that I played Il2 only in arcade mode is BS. Almost sounds like fanboy BS.

The vstab anecdote happened as I described and even the guy flying the plane in question said it was BS afterwards. I replicated this on a C205 in a full real server. Had it happen with a Ta 152H as well. The combat ACM without a vstab was a P-63, also full real physics (icons and engine controls not full real but that's got nothing to do with it).

It's obvious there's no cop killing in LFS, so the question refers to what analog to GTA cop killing or turkey choking there is, in the regular racing part of LFS, for novel takes on the free roaming allowed therein such as achievements would bring out of obscurity for players to explore.

Quote :

Already forgotten when WoW was used in discussion and why?
Plz return to the first post where WoW make an first appearance and read it again because as for now you pulled Wow in discussion in random places but forget in which context it was used first so all of your argument with WoW are baseless because you lost context.

WoW was brought in as an example that games could keep your attention for as long as ten years. Followed the assertion that since WoW did it thanks in some part to achievements, it should be true for LFS as well. Which is an apples to oranges equation because WoW has completely different gameplay mechanics, namely free roaming sandbox coop/PvP roleplaying as opposed to <64 players racing cars on a single-path track as sole objective - aside the cruising and drifting where I said clearly enough to anyone with normal reading comprehension that achievements would make a lot more sense.

Last edited by Breizh, Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:10.

Quote from Chupacabras84 :

Well it not. Even GTA gets boring when you done everything you have to do and now only driving and killing random policemen is all what left.

What policemen killing achievements exist in LFS?

Quote :

If I would get some kind of a notification on a server that i just win a race with a guy on the track he have world record it would be cool.

That's fine. But you could have that in the post-race results table. Like a red helmet next to his name or something.

Quote :

When it comes to Wow the whole game is full of variety of things to do, quests and stuff like that and achievements the only difference they are not called achievements but treasures and items, levels.

When it comes to WoW achievements, the comparisons are invalid. Apples and oranges.

Quote :

Well I didn't said I don't know what it is. As for now I dont know do i know what it is because every translator fails to translate it.
But I might know what it is and might not.
But it doesn't change the fact that i don't even have to know to see when a plane behave itself like a plane or not, for example when you see Boeing which flight like a paper plane you can tell there is something wrong and without even knowing what stabs is.

Vertical stabilizer. 1C did make military sims earlier, but that means nothing for this Il2 game running on consumer level hardware. And there's no context to saying a WWII pilot feels the game is great. Warbirds had vets saying the same thing and enjoying flying in the game along with other players, etc, having a great time, even though that flight model is now as outdated as its racing contemporaries. Sims pretty much always have someone backing it, saying that it's great for a game.
The fact is Il2's FM feels the same for all planes near departure, the different flight regimes feel stitched together like I said rather than consistent and emergent from a single model, it has those weird loopholes like the no v-stab combat-performance maneuvering, or the .50cal planes rocking all over the place when firing, or the continually fluid performances due to players complaining that their fav plane is underperforming - with a distinct bias in favor of russian planes, and so on.

Quote :

Hahha now its funny because there a lot WW II pilots where helping during making of that game there is a big interview with them on 1C site somewhere also there a few stunt team where real pilots playing.
They are also never said that IL2 is a bad sim or not realistic.
I don't know are you a pilot so you can tell what is realistic or you just know what stab and vstab is.

Argument from authority/ignorance.

Quote :

7)I don't need achievements to have a clear race but it still would be fun getting big screen with notification of a totally clean race from the very beginning to the very end.

Fine I guess, but you'd already know unless you were amnesiac or something.

Quote :

Also it cold be something totally random.

Like?

Quote :

Of course achievements are good but the main thing you do is still racing.
Achievements are just adds more flavour to thing you do often anyway.

Still waiting for such substantial extra flavor to the racing thanks to achievements. Seems like you guys are so in love with achievements in other games that you fail to engage critical thought on whether you actually need an achievement system to gain that "missing" extra flavor. Like the beat the record holder or contact-less race things. No need for achievement for that. The only reason for achievements then is to point it out as bragging rights after the fact. It only really makes sense when you're in a sandbox-enough environment like drift or cruising.

Woz, I'm not on any bandwaggon. You must be 14yo or something to love reading between the lines and crow about it so much. There's nothing horribly bad or especially excellent in your suggestions. And I don't care either way. I'm just pointing out the uselessness of some of the suggestions in the overall achievements arguments. That's the main fault with this suggestion and where the debate should be. Failing to recognize that I'm only working to make or break this suggestion is typical of the reasons why people usually don't value forums much.

The only one in your previous post that's not right is the clean racing one. There shouldn't even be an achievement for that. And how do you implement it? You could have player A racing perfectly clean but repeatedly wrecked by player Z, while player B who doesn't even care about clean racing or clean racing achievement who by chance never made any contact. Why reward player B over player A?
The other suggestions are nothing special. You can keep track of those yourself by memory or using LFSW. Some virtual ribbon or medal isn't going to make it any more special.


Second post- The licensing in CTRA was a one-deal thing. A single achievement, if you have to call it that. Using CTRA as proof that LFS is made to have achievements is grasping at straws. It doesn't offer anything different from leagues, and in fact the reason CTRA was popular was the accessibility of participating in the ranking ladder. There was no novelty or diversity in its features that achievements are supposed to bring, other than the color of the medals you had and the multiple class racing.

Again, the blind MMO comparison doesn't hold water. Gameplay mechanics in an MMO game that's completely sandbox is nothing like such a channeled gameplay environment as the qualify/race world of LFS. In a setting like the cruise or drift servers it makes more sense. In the regular racing setting these achievements would have to be very tightly related to racing performance. And LFSW already serves this, and those that LFSW doesn't manage or display would be where you'd find worthwhile achievements.

Alright..

1) more truism.

2) SHOW HOW achievements keep the game fresh. Saying something is true because it's true, or because you say so, is nonsense.

3) WOW got pulled into this in a very specific instance where you said there was no reason to keep playing a game after as long as 10 years. To which I replied that there's many of them and while WOW might do so thanks in some part to achievements, WOW's gameplay is nothing like LFS, and thus the equation of achievements' validity in WOW to LFS is invalid. Follows valid note that many games that ARE comparable to LFS which show no need for achievements CAN keep players attention for at least 10 years.

4) See above.

5) You don't know what stabs are and you're telling me I don't know about flight physics? Seriously? Can you show support for "all WWII pilots agreeing Il2 is most realistic"? edit- That's incorrect. So you found one pilot who thinks so. Is this your unbiased sample? A single-data point sample?

6) Your english is unclear. You repeated what I said. Achievements are what're telling you what to like. I believe the opposite. Hence "drive what you like and like what you drive". You might've picked up on this if you weren't out to ridicule others instead of seeking what makes the most sense.

7) I am indifferent to achievements but have yet to see one that's not already available in LFSWorld, or that's not useless like longest drift or wheelie, and that actually conforms to what LFS is meant to be. If you need a clean racing reward to attempt it, you're playing the wrong game.

8) Ad hominem. Others said as much and I don't read these forums much at all, so it's hardly a coincidence or far fetched notion.

Last edited by Breizh, Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:31.

Thanks. Looks like netbike is due sometime in late sept too.
http://forum.racesimcentral.co ... .php?t=294289&page=14
A bit further upthread there's a demo link..
http://rs568.rapidshare.com/files/177056247/nb002.zip
Haven't tried it, don't have proper controller (flight sim hotas only) so I can't say if it's worth trying, but here it is anyway.