I totally agree with all of your points. Earlier in the thread I suggested an "average lap time" or "average race time" way of doing things, but that would rely on some sort of centralized database. I guess the available cheats, corner cutting, etc. kinda ruin the times on LFSW for all intents and purposes.
Perhaps you could use something other than a points program. For instance, have a script that would look up the users best lap time on the currently running track/car combo on lfsworld and compare it to the other drivers or to the "benchmark" time set by the server. LFSWorld has a lot of stats that could probably be leveraged for a multi-server, non-centralized system.
There's already an InSim app which can detect auto-blip, auto-cut, auto-shift, brake help, steering help, etc. But, as far as I know, InSim doesn't pass what type of shifter is being used or what type of clutch is being used. Without that information there's no way to make an InSim app which will do what we want. If you're interested in the tool that does the other stuff PM me and I can email it to you.
In-car with the XRT at South City.
Yesterday evening a few buddies and I ran a quick race down in South City. Yes, we were street racing, but there was no other traffic around so it's cool. I thought that I should capture it on tape so I mounted a camera between the seats of my XRT and filmed the whole thing. The quality isn't great but I think it's good enough to get a feeling for the race.
Hope you guys enjoy it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKWmsmKd0WQ
edit: the YouTube version has a problem with the audio sync. You can get a better quality, synced audio version here: http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/51585/LFS-in-carLQ.avi.html
Hope you guys enjoy it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKWmsmKd0WQ
edit: the YouTube version has a problem with the audio sync. You can get a better quality, synced audio version here: http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/51585/LFS-in-carLQ.avi.html
Last edited by Cue-Ball, .
I don't understand how you come to this conclusion. I'm certainly not faster doing upshifts with a manual clutch and H-shifter than I am using auto clutch and a sequential. I don't see how I even could be as fast or faster. Auto-clutch shifts almost instantaneously. I can't even move the stick that fast, much less push in the clutch, move the stick, then release the clutch.
None of us are scared to use the full manual controls. I've stated many times that I play full manual with all aids off already. I just would like to do so against other people who are doing the same.
Again, I'll say this one more time, I ALREADY play using clutch, H-shifter, and no aids. I believe at least one or two other people in this thread said the same. This should not preclude us from wanting to play solely against other people who also use the same controls if we choose to.
from: http://www.corvetteracing.com/ ... ases/lemans/lemans9.shtml
"The Corvette C6.Rs are equipped with an air conditioning system that blows cool air into the helmet through a flexible tube," explained Steve Wesoloski, GM Road Racing group manager. "Supplying cool air for the driver to breathe lowers his core temperature. There is also a blower that pumps air through ventilation holes in the seat to cool his body by evaporation."
Sounds as though the seat uses outside temperature air, but the helmet uses a coolant based A/C system.
My biggest worry about being able to modify things on the client side is that they need to get sent to everyone else. I was trying to think of a way to get a lot of customization without having to upload anything to the master server and without all the other clients having to download anything. The idea above is the best I could come up with that allows a ton of customization and variety with no bandwidth requirements (well, okay, a few bytes per client). If LFS were to add custom pit boxes or custom driver suits that operate similar to the way skins do now, I would turn them off. But with a color based system you get 80% of the payoff with 0% of the bandwidth or disk space usage.
I totally disagree with you here. Doing things manually in this game is never as fast or easy as using the driving aids If you make ONE mistake it's guranteed to be slower. Using three pedals is more difficult than two. Period. If it weren't then modern F1 cars would still have three pedals and companies wouldn't be spending billions in R&D to develop clutchless manuals.
There is no risk or chance of mistake when using the driving aids. When not using them there is, at best, still the *chance* of making a mistake. I shouldn't have to drive 100% perfectly just to keep even with someone who is infallible thanks to the computer.
If me, Tristan, Eeekie, etc want to play on a server with this option enabled, what's the harm to the rest of you? Why are you (not you specificially, Kev. "you" as a group) so against us being able to play this way? How is our group playing together negatively impacting the rest of you?
We're not asking you to agree. You can play the game however you would like. Some of us would just like to play the game the way we like without having to worry that someone playing an easier way is there to spoil it. I certainly don't want no-aids to be forced on everyone. I also don't want axis-clutch and auto-clutch off to be forced on everyone. However; *I* want to play that way. Some of the people I know want to play that way. We should be able to play that way and ensure that anyone else who wants to join is playing by our common rules. That is all.
Lots of stuff. Firstly, it's only on or off. There is no slip modeled into the clutch as far as I can tell. Not such a big deal on the race cars, but a big deal on the street cars. Secondly, the clutch doesn't operate like a real world clutch at all. If you leave the clutch engaged (pedal out) and come to a stop in gear the engine does not die because the game automatically depresses the clutch for you, even with auto-clutch turned off. Similarly, you can put the car in gear and turn off the engine yet the car will still roll. Also, LFS requires the clutch to be completely (or very nearly so) depressed before you can switch gears where a real car you can shift after only depressing the clutch slightly or, under the right circumstances, not at all. And lets not forget that LFS will let you put the car into the next gear and THEN press the clutch to make the shift. There are other oddities as well, such as the engine taking a very long time to stop turning after the ignition is turned off, which makes it difficult to tell whether some of these problems are caused by the clutch code or something else.
You don't get hot tires because every track is like Britain in the fall.
One of my big requests is for variable track and air temperatures. Once we get temps that are less like Western Europe and are more like South Africa or Australia then maybe people will have a reason to use R3 slicks. Air temps will also be a factor once oil and coolant temps are modeled. Even if we don't get changeable/variable temperatures it would be nice if each track had its own conditions based on its location. For instance Fern Bay should be a good bit warmer than Blackwood, morning should be cool while afternoon should be warm and evening somewhere between. It could even be slightly different depeding on the wind. This would add a lot of variables to tire selection without (hopefully) needing a ton of changes in the program itself.Until we get something like this the Road Supers and R2 slicks are really the only tires to bother with for any race over about 8 laps.
On these things we agree. Scawen needs to totally redo the clutch model and implement stalling. I'm sure it's on his to-do list. No shift-S should be in the next incompatible patch (the dedicated server already has the option, but the clients don't have the code yet). False starts is something I think we'd all like to see and something that I also expect to see in the somewhat near future. Kegetys even made an app to allow for false starts but never released it publicly.
Why not? Several users such as myself want to see it and it shouldn't be hard to do. All of the other driving aids are already reported by InSim. Whether or not axis clutch or shifter are selected shouldn't be hard to add.
Huh? LFS already knows what you've selected. it's either
1) auto clutch
2) button clutch
3) axis clutch
If clutch != 3 then "sorry, axis clutch required".
Seems pretty straight forward to me. It's no different than the auto blip and auto cut which can already be monitored using InSim. All that's needed is for Scawen to either report the clutch type being used or to give servers restrictions for these things so that we don't have to use InSim to do it.
Cool, but people bitch and moan that they can't afford S2, can't afford a $50 steering wheel, etc. I think your target market for a $300 leather jacket is gonna be miniscule at best.
There's a way around just about any restriction you can think of. The question is not whether or not someone can get around the restriction but rather if it's worth the time, effort, and risk. Given the fact that you can spectate other drivers in LFS and can see their pedal movements, it probably wouldn't be too hard to catch most cheaters given a little time. The main issue is to be able to detect and lock out people who aren't using an analog (axis) clutch. That alone would deter the casual person from attempting to bypass the restrictions.
You can still play without a wheel. It's not required. But some of us would like to use wheels and 3 pedals and race against the other people who also use them. That doesn't stop you from racing and it doesn't stop you from running your own server which you can cater to your own needs and desires.
Last edited by Cue-Ball, .
Because there are a lot of idiots on the Internet and many of us don't really want to put our real name out there for them. I value my privacy and if my real name were required to be displayed by a league then I would not join it.
That burns just thinking about it.
Since servers are not public (they are privately operated and not for the general public) I doubt that any of the "laws" that have been quoted would even apply. If they would I'd be interested to see what happens when some blind guy sues because he isn't given a driver's license or allowed to be an air traffic controller.
I've thought many times about printing up a "My other car is an FZR" bumper sticker for my ride.
Hence, why I suggested being able to pick color schemes. My idea would have 3-5 driver suit "layouts", each of which can be colored with any two colors. For instance, you might have one suit with a primary color top and secondary color bottom, one suit that's all primary color but with secondary colored stripes down the sleeves and pant legs, one suit that's primary color with secondary color sleeves and belt line, etc. Five of these options combined with the nearly infinite color choices would give a TON of different looks but wouldn't require any downloading, wouldn't require any drive space, and wouldn't require any skinning by the user (some of us can't skin worth a damn or don't have the time/desire to). Each skin could still have an overlay with badges, sponsors, etc that would stay on the client machine similar to the way driver skins work now (you can see changes but everyone else isn't forced to download them).
But the road cars that LFS simulates have normal manual transmissions and three pedals. I don't think anyone here is discussing the GTR cars or the F1 car which wouldn't need manual clutching or manual blipping.
I mostly drive the road cars like the XRG, XRT, LX4, and FZ5 so those are the ones I'm concerned with. Also, many people have requested new cars which would use a clutch and normal manual gearbox (NASCAR, Aussie V8, Sprint Car, etc). It's important to many of us that these cars operate like they would in the real world.
To a certain extent there's no way to get past this without using multiple monitors or some other sort of "surround view". Having to press a button to look out the side window blows no matter how you slice it. However; in the in-car view the a-pillar can sometimes block your view, just like in a real car. That is an important distinction to me in the same way that playing a flight sim is unrealistic when you don't have the cockpit drawn. In real life you have a very limited view and cannot see through your legs or through the instrument panel, but these are things you can do in game. I personally feel that the cockpit view is the most realistic, even though it's obviously not reality (no peripheral vision, no sense of gravity, etc).
That all depends. I run a projector (~55" widescreen) and ~105* field of view. With these settings I'm able to approximate the view out of a car very closely. Gauges are properly sized, walls actually pose a threat, and the sense of speed is dramatic. Of course, I still have limitations (I can't see next to me without "looking" with a button, I still have no g-forces) but when racing down the track it is very immersive and doesn't feel the slightest bit like "looking through a mail slot" as you say.
That's a lot of stuff to download for something that I'm never going to see. Seriously, when is the last time you looked at the inside of the pit stalls other than when you were pulling out of your own?
Same here. But it would have to be a color logo with decent stitching. Not monochrome and not silkscreened.
I don't really think so. Like I said, you're not allowed to do much to a pit box at a real track. You can't repaint or hang a bunch of stuff. Only temporary stuff can be done so most pit boxes look pretty much the same other than a few banners with the team name and the number of parts bins and toolboxes. Besides, how often do you really have the chance to look in the other pit stalls?
I'm all for skinnable cars and a banner outside of the pit stall, but I don't want to have to download a car skin, helmet skin, driver skin, pit stall skin, etc. every single time someone joins. Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing helmet skins go away and be replaced by color coded generic helmets similar to the driver suits that I described earlier. You'd get more variation in helmet designs compared to what we have now but would use no bandwidth and would require no photoshopping by the player.
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