I'm bummed that they're not going to make it into V3, but completely understand. It's great just to know that it will happen eventually. Thank you. Thanks not only for listening to your customers, but for even going so far as to ask them what they need. Very few developers go to such lengths and it's so refreshing to see.
I'm really looking forward to V3, but I really can't wait to see what you guys have up your sleeves for the following patch.
When I saw the thread title I thought this was going to be a "what if something happened to Scawen" type thread. LFS is his baby, so I hope nothing happens to him or that he doesn't suddenly lose interest.
I do agree with Vain, though. It would be nice to have more people doing car/track modeling. More programmers *could* be a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth (though people like Kegetys, Todd Wassen, and AngryAngel could be godsent). This really shouldn't be a problem when it comes to cars and tracks. More = better, so long as the quality stays high.
I just hope Eric has a big surprise for us in the next big patch. I'd love to see some totally new tracks and more cars.
I do agree with Vain, though. It would be nice to have more people doing car/track modeling. More programmers *could* be a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth (though people like Kegetys, Todd Wassen, and AngryAngel could be godsent). This really shouldn't be a problem when it comes to cars and tracks. More = better, so long as the quality stays high.
I just hope Eric has a big surprise for us in the next big patch. I'd love to see some totally new tracks and more cars.
That is unfortunate. I would be more than willing to spend my free time making a new track if I thought it had a snowball's chance in hell of making it into the game. I'm pretty certain that many of the guys who make tracks for Racer would also be willing to convert their current tracks or make new tracks for LFS, if only they could get them accepted.
I'm late to the party in posting this, and I'm not a developer, but I thought it would be relevant anyway.
I'd like to see a setting that shows what kind of transmission and clutch each user is using.
auto = 0
sequential = 1
shifter = 2
auto clutch = 0
button clutch = 1
axis clutch = 2
This would allow people to have the "hardcore" races that so many of us have asked for as we could eliminate people using auto clutch or sequential shifter when everyone else in the field is using axis clutch and h-shift. I'm hoping to put together a "G25 Cup" one of these days, and can't do it until I have a way to tell what controls are being used.
edit: Of course, it would be a lot easier for server admins to have these settings in the server itself, but if we at least had the info in InSim, someone could program an app for the server themselves.
I'd like to see a setting that shows what kind of transmission and clutch each user is using.
auto = 0
sequential = 1
shifter = 2
auto clutch = 0
button clutch = 1
axis clutch = 2
This would allow people to have the "hardcore" races that so many of us have asked for as we could eliminate people using auto clutch or sequential shifter when everyone else in the field is using axis clutch and h-shift. I'm hoping to put together a "G25 Cup" one of these days, and can't do it until I have a way to tell what controls are being used.
edit: Of course, it would be a lot easier for server admins to have these settings in the server itself, but if we at least had the info in InSim, someone could program an app for the server themselves.
Last edited by Cue-Ball, .
I have to disagree with you, Keiichi. The road cars in this game are just that - road cars. They are not cup cars and not race cars. They have no rollcage and full interiors. As such, they should have only a very limited adjustment. Say, perhaps, three ride heights, five levels of damping, three ARB settings, and three final gear ratios (transmission ratios locked).
Not only would this be more realistic, but it would also help even the playing field and make it easier for newbies to learn the basics of car setup. And even full blown race cars don't have the near infinite adjustment of things like LFS has. Not even Sauber can change their final gearing by .01% or alter every single transmission gear for every single race. There are a limited number of input and output teeth which are used to determine ratio. This is how it is in the real world, and this is how LFS needs to be as well. Car setup is all about compromise and right now LFS misses a lot of that, due to the huge rate of adjustment it allows.
Not only would this be more realistic, but it would also help even the playing field and make it easier for newbies to learn the basics of car setup. And even full blown race cars don't have the near infinite adjustment of things like LFS has. Not even Sauber can change their final gearing by .01% or alter every single transmission gear for every single race. There are a limited number of input and output teeth which are used to determine ratio. This is how it is in the real world, and this is how LFS needs to be as well. Car setup is all about compromise and right now LFS misses a lot of that, due to the huge rate of adjustment it allows.
I actually like Westhill the best of all the tracks in LFS. I wouldn't say it's missing ambiance any more than any other track in the game. It's just not a small-ish track in a fairly tiny, congested area like most of the others. I would actually say that if anything is missing it has nothing to do with the track.
The reason that you can feel all alone when playing LFS is that YOU ARE. There are no people milling around the pits and very few marshalls out on the track (none of which even do so much as turn their head or cross their arms). The people that are in the stands are all mute and like to sit very, very still. Nobody ever takes a picture or utters a word. There's no pit crew, no crew chief, nobody at all in your pit or talking in your ear. And you're all alone in the car too. Other than the sounds of the engine and tires (and now, diff/tranny) there's nothing else. No squeaky brakes, no pebbles hitting the wheelwells, no creaks from the dashboard.
While Westhill is very open with large runoffs, I certainly don't think that's the problem. The problem is that there really aren't any people around and there's no ambient noise. Imagine how much more alive LFS would feel with crowd noises, flag marshalls, pit crews, picture taking fans, people in the stands waving banners, etc.
The reason that you can feel all alone when playing LFS is that YOU ARE. There are no people milling around the pits and very few marshalls out on the track (none of which even do so much as turn their head or cross their arms). The people that are in the stands are all mute and like to sit very, very still. Nobody ever takes a picture or utters a word. There's no pit crew, no crew chief, nobody at all in your pit or talking in your ear. And you're all alone in the car too. Other than the sounds of the engine and tires (and now, diff/tranny) there's nothing else. No squeaky brakes, no pebbles hitting the wheelwells, no creaks from the dashboard.
While Westhill is very open with large runoffs, I certainly don't think that's the problem. The problem is that there really aren't any people around and there's no ambient noise. Imagine how much more alive LFS would feel with crowd noises, flag marshalls, pit crews, picture taking fans, people in the stands waving banners, etc.
I'm still not a fan of the rounded paint marks on the curbs. At all. But the rest looks gorgeous, as always.
I've got no idea why this is such a widespread belief, but it's not true. You can't just make a track that looks exactly like Laguna Seca and call it something else. The name and the likeness are both trademarked. The same goes for other things as well. Chery in China made a car that looked exactly like a Chevrolet and was sued for it. Even the likeness of people has to be paid for to be used.
The first Need for Speed wasn't like the later ones. It was fairly realistic for the time. Not to the level of Indy Car Racing or the original NASCAR sims, but pretty good none the less. And it's one of the few games that had point to point tracks, traffic, and decent cars (Supra, NSX, Diablo, etc).
Have you ever played the original Need For Speed? It had tracks like this and was probably the most fun racing sim I've ever played (including LFS). There were mountain tracks, city tracks, and racing circuits. On the mountain tracks there was traffic traveling in both directions which added a big element of risk to the racing. The city tracks also had traffic, but only in the same direction (racing down the freeway, essentially). Not only did you have to tame the road, but you had to contend with traffic as well, knowing when you could push it and when you should slow down a bit.
I would give almost anything to have the original NFS remade with the physics of LFS.
I'm not a programmer, so I don't know exactly how someone would go about making an InSim script to do this, but I'm sure it's possible. If you look at the STCC servers they only accept people with certain licenses. For instance, you can't join the Silver server if you only have a Bronze license. It also has a stipulation that you must be within X% of the fastest driver on the server or you get told to practice offline and booted. The options here are almost limitless. The only real restriction is your programming ability and the data that is recorded by InSim.
I'd be willing to bet that this is already possible using InSim.
It is illegal either way. The only difference is that it's a lot easier and more lucrative to sue a company than it is to sue an individual.
I agree with most of your post. LFS has more non-track, non-car mods than probably any other sim. InSim is a wonderful thing.
Speaking of which, are you going to continue development on LFS Companion? You said that you were stopping, then said you weren't. I still use it myself and was just curious. I'm also curious if you plan to release your server side tools to disable the use of driving aids. I'm very interested in such a thing. I got something a while back from another user (MonkOnAHotTinRoof) but have had a hard time getting it to run without crashing. Any chance of us seeing your version?
This is the one thing in your post that I vehemently disagree with. While I don't want to see LFS opened to modding, I certainly don't have all the cars I could ever want. We've got no rally car, we've got no V8s, no sedans, no mid-engine cars, no trucks, no buggies, no drag cars, etc, etc, etc. I love LFS and choose it over all other sims, but it still needs a lot of car types to be anywhere near complete. The same is true for tracks. We've got no ovals, no dirt tracks, no hill climb, no off-road, etc.
Speaking of which, are you going to continue development on LFS Companion? You said that you were stopping, then said you weren't. I still use it myself and was just curious. I'm also curious if you plan to release your server side tools to disable the use of driving aids. I'm very interested in such a thing. I got something a while back from another user (MonkOnAHotTinRoof) but have had a hard time getting it to run without crashing. Any chance of us seeing your version?
This is the one thing in your post that I vehemently disagree with. While I don't want to see LFS opened to modding, I certainly don't have all the cars I could ever want. We've got no rally car, we've got no V8s, no sedans, no mid-engine cars, no trucks, no buggies, no drag cars, etc, etc, etc. I love LFS and choose it over all other sims, but it still needs a lot of car types to be anywhere near complete. The same is true for tracks. We've got no ovals, no dirt tracks, no hill climb, no off-road, etc.
Because you won't take no for an answer.
I already read that thread. You appear to be one of the few who think modding is a good idea.
Because past experience tells us that it does. Take a look at any of the games where modding is reasonably easy. rFactor is a mess, with multiple versions of each track, multiple versions of the same mod, etc. Even games like GTR and GTL which are a little more difficult end up with tons of crap. Look at No-grip and see how many cars are released for those games. GTL basically has two dozen Mustangs (the Gran Turismo of the PC sim world?), some with bright purple paint or "low rider" schemes. Many of the tracks are straight ports from old games with horrible textures. Nobody can agree which version of the track is "correct", so you end up with three different versions.
Modding is 90% crap and 10% diamonds. Keeping control of the game in the hands of the designers keeps the crap out. We just need to find a way to let the diamonds in.
The best thing about LFS is that you can jump online and immediately connect to a server. There's no worry about mismatched tracks or someone with a 10,000hp car. I do not want to see LFS opened to mods.
However; I would like to see the devs utilize the community more. With the tools available today, and the number of talented people on this forum, we could probably have dozens of qualitytracks and cars in the game in no time. The devs would simply have to review and approve the submissions. Hell, I'd be willing to pay good money for a few new tracks if the devs would just put them in the game.
However; I would like to see the devs utilize the community more. With the tools available today, and the number of talented people on this forum, we could probably have dozens of qualitytracks and cars in the game in no time. The devs would simply have to review and approve the submissions. Hell, I'd be willing to pay good money for a few new tracks if the devs would just put them in the game.
A wheel that works with "both", being the PC and the Xbox 360? Sorry. No such animal exists.
If you're interested in acrobatics you should definitely check out the Flight Unlimited series. The first game even has lessons on acrobatics. It doesn't use lookup tables like most flight sims and is the only sim I've ever played that accurately models turbulence and buffetting. There are three games in the series and you can use them together, adding each successive game. Even though the last one, Flight Unlimited III, came out years ago, it had features that MS Flight Sim just got in recent versions. And I still think that MS Flight Sim doesn't hold a candle to FUIII in terms of physics modeling.
I dunno why the FU games never got wide support as they are, simply, in a whole other league than other civilian flight sims.
I dunno why the FU games never got wide support as they are, simply, in a whole other league than other civilian flight sims.
A nice thought, but we didn't stop using trees for energy because of the environmental implications. We did it purely for selfish reasons. See, trees are a pain in the ass to cut down and chop up, and they don't supply much heat for very long. Coal works much better than trees, so once we found coal we used that. Nevermind that burning coal emits much worse stuff than burning trees does. Of course, after coal we figured out how to package and transport natural gas. Natural Gas is much cleaner to use than coal, but we didn't pick it for that reason. It's less labor intensive to get to and easier to use, hence it is preferred.
Humans are motivated by money and laziness, not a love for nature.
I don't like the idea of presets. Racing conditions just change too fast and it's very likely that you won't have a preset for a given condition. Instead, it needs to be made easier to select what you want to have done.
I suggested this in another thread about pitstops, but I'll throw it out again here. The 10-key number pad should be used to change pitstop options and car settings. 7,9,1, and 3 could be used to turn on/off tire changes. If you want both rear tires changed, press 1 and 3 to toggle them on. If you're set to only change the rears and then decide at the last minute to change all four, just press 7 and 9 to toggle the front tires on. If you blow out a tire and only want to change that one single tire, it would be possible with this system. The + and - could be used for fuel level. 4 and 6 could be used for ARB stiffen/loosening (this should be able to be done on the fly, not just in the pits, for certain cars). 8 and 2 could be used for brake balance (again, this should work on the fly for the race cars). That still leaves 5 keys for other uses such as whether or not to repair body damage. I'd also like to see pitting take longer if you don't radio ahead that you are coming in, similar to the way GTR handles pitting.
I suggested this in another thread about pitstops, but I'll throw it out again here. The 10-key number pad should be used to change pitstop options and car settings. 7,9,1, and 3 could be used to turn on/off tire changes. If you want both rear tires changed, press 1 and 3 to toggle them on. If you're set to only change the rears and then decide at the last minute to change all four, just press 7 and 9 to toggle the front tires on. If you blow out a tire and only want to change that one single tire, it would be possible with this system. The + and - could be used for fuel level. 4 and 6 could be used for ARB stiffen/loosening (this should be able to be done on the fly, not just in the pits, for certain cars). 8 and 2 could be used for brake balance (again, this should work on the fly for the race cars). That still leaves 5 keys for other uses such as whether or not to repair body damage. I'd also like to see pitting take longer if you don't radio ahead that you are coming in, similar to the way GTR handles pitting.
Not a bad idea, but not really necessary, IMO. While gamers are gamers, I think that only people who are into cars really enjoy and stick with LFS. I know plenty of gamers and plenty of guys who aren't gamers but are car guys. The ones who really enjoy LFS are generally the car guys, not the gamers.
Until S2 is out of beta, I don't think any promotion of any sort is really necessary. Once S2 is finished, I think it will sell itself. As great as LFS is now, just imagine how good it will be with better damage, better clutch model, improved sound, correctly modeled diffs, balanced classes, etc. I imagine Scavier will have to worry less about promotion and more about keeping the site from being overwhelmed.
I think that for now, and probably for the near future, the best way to promote LFS is via word of mouth.
Until S2 is out of beta, I don't think any promotion of any sort is really necessary. Once S2 is finished, I think it will sell itself. As great as LFS is now, just imagine how good it will be with better damage, better clutch model, improved sound, correctly modeled diffs, balanced classes, etc. I imagine Scavier will have to worry less about promotion and more about keeping the site from being overwhelmed.
I think that for now, and probably for the near future, the best way to promote LFS is via word of mouth.
Ditto. I think that really limiting the car setups to real world values would help a lot (This has been suggested many times here and in the improvements subforum). If the road car transmissions used standard ratios and there were only a few differential gears to choose from, that would take a lot of the setup work out. Do the same thing for springs and shocks (three or four ride heights and spring rates) and it would simplify things immensely. There would really only be a few good setups per track (at least for the road cars) and races would be much more even.
I totally agree with you that there need to be serious, realistic penalties for mucking up the car. But ONLY if the person running the server wants it to be that way. I've been playing LFS for a while now and am pretty good about conserving my car, especially when driving alone. But my brother is brand new to the game and has only tried the demo a few times. If I want to race with him I should have the option of whether or not I want full damage turned on. If it was forced on to realistic levels all the time I would spend the whole time driving around the track alone since he'd constantly be in the pits.
Personally, I would like to see damage selectable by the server from off to realistic. Servers and leagues that demand 100% realism could turn damage all the way up to realistic levels while newbie servers could turn damage completely off if they like.
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