Quote from KMSpeed :

Can someone plz give me the link that explains why we made this transition to the sound sustem (the technical reason)?

I can't give you a specific link, but if you look in the test patch section you'll find plenty of info. Part of the reason for the change was a fix for Vista (the old sound engine doesn't work properly on that crappy OS). Another part of the change was so that Scawen could add new things like transmission and rear end noise as well as fiddling with the sounds a bit as he works towards more realism. I'm sure that before too long we'll get more changes to the engine noise, changes to the tranny and rear end noise, undercarriage noise, etc. Scawen has said repeatedly that Patch V is just a short pit stop on the road towards a much fuller and more realistic sound system.

Very nice. I didn't like all of the camera angles, but some of them were pure genius. I especially liked the one shot on South City taken from the parking garage and the transition from SO/FOX to the GTRs. Very well done. It's also nice to see more videos coming out in HD resolution, though it really shows how bad the textures in LFS are up-close.

I agree with Axus. In the real world lateral grip doesn't fall off after the peak, it just levels out. Your curve looks like you drew how you think it should look instead of how science tells us it should look.

Quote from Misko :

Or in better quality:
http://lfs-srbija.byethost17.c ... Plus/LigaNajava1_xvid.avi
http://lfs-srbija.byethost17.c ... Plus/LigaNajava2_xvid.avi

Amazing thing that people on AutoPlus are open to this kind of virtual racing, and willing to let us show all our races till end of the season live, and other things about racing sims, to general public of car nutters.

I just watched the first link and they make good use of Don's slo-motion videos.

Quote from banshee56 :

There is already an option line in the dedi-server config file to not allow car resetting. Has anyone tried it yet?

The option is there but not yet working. It requires an incompatible patch before it will work. I personally would like to see options for auto clutch, auto blip, auto cut, etc. as well.

Quote from banshee56 :

I need content that forces me to pay attention to it race after race, like engine overheating, brake fade and failure, aero damage, and real penalty systems like corner cutting drive throughs, and realistic damage where going over the chicane at Fern Bay Green in an FO8 liek we do instantly breaks the shocks.

I agree 100%! I would really like to see a proper clutch model, engine stalling, brake fade, better damage model (you hit a wall your race is OVER), server-side controls to prevent shift-S and car resetting, less adjustable road cars, ballast, etc. Improved graphics and sounds would be very nice to have, but these other things would increase realism and immersion immeasurably. Combine these changes with league races, script systems (like the STCC tiered servers), etc and you've got the recipe for a real winner.

Quote from banshee56 :

Fair points there. However, according to the Mayans, armageddon will arrive in 2012, and I would like to have a couple years of racing S3 before we leave for Mars. Besides, 3 years from now, I'm probably still gonna be on my P4 2.6 with my 9800 AIW, so the graphics in LFS are the only game graphics I'm likely to see anyway.

I'm jealous! I'm still running a P4 2.4 with a GeForce 6600GT!

Quote from EvilVendingMachine :

The thing is, those are street tires (high performance street tires but still)
on the xrt. They aren't supposed to flex like drag or race tires i don't beleive.

Drag tires have very flexible sidewalls, but road race tires generally do not. Also, the street tires in LFS have pretty tall sidewalls which would allow them to flex a lot.

I'm not sure if LFS models different sidewall stiffnesses for the different tire types or not, but I don't think the picture in the first post is too far from reality.

Quote from banshee56 :

Personally, I think the graphics are sufficient for what I am doing in the sim. The most I generally see is tarmac, grass, sand, and a few landmarks to judge breaking points by. Why do I care about high-res skies? I mean, I'm not looking for a hidden image of the devil in the cumulus while I'm trying to threshold brake a racing machine into a off-camber, increasing radius turn with 10 other drivers near me.

I would rather see things like balanced car classes, more server admin controls, better collision and tire physics, a couple more tracks/configs, rolling/false starts, etc. I've played this sim for 3+ years now. Give me stuff that keeps me wanting to race, and not gawk at the textures. Graphics can wait until S3, IMHO.

I totally agree with you that false starts, more tracks, better physics, etc is more important than graphics. However; keep in mind that S2 is still in alpha right now. We can assume that it will be quite a while before it's in beta and then another long while before it's final, then a LONG while after that before we see S3. So, even though the graphics are "good enough" right now, three years from now they're going to look pretty raggedy when everyone is running ultra high resolution with infinite view distance and all cars on high detail with full polygon counts. However; if the devs lay a good foundation the textures can be improved immensely. The community has already done a lot of the work in that regard but the tracks need better texture mapping for things to really improve much past what's already done. Also, don't forget about other graphical improvements like animated flag marshalls, people and objects in the pits, windshields that get dirty or cracked, etc. It's not all about textures. Better graphics = improved immersion. That is what is important to me.

Quote from MaximUK :

Since making my ealrier post I have seen a thread where Scawen did say that Eric doesn't work full time on LFS. I guess depending on his other commitments at the moment this might suggest there isn't so much unseen work as I thought there might be. As AJP71 stated, Scawen also said Eric would be concentrating on S3 graphics, cars and tracks so I am not so sure we will see much for S2 anymore. The interiors are on the list to be done but as mentioned above, can't be released in a compatible patch so they may be done and ready for W.

I hope this isn't the case. While the GTR interiors are the biggest glaring omission in the S2 graphics there is still much work to be done overall (improved textures, better texture mapping, improved car models, and I'm sure EVERYONE would like to see a few new cars *cough*V8 sedan*cough* and tracks). I certainly hope that Eric isn't spending time working on S3 stuff when S2 is not even in beta yet.

If this is the case it further reinforces my opinion that the LFS devs need to utilize the community for some of this stuff.

Quote from tristancliffe :

CoG's are calculated from the 3D models of the cars in the fly, so changing the interiors is an incompatible patch thing - I'm hoping Erics work from the last few months will make it into the next patch (W)

If that's true then can I assume that every surface carries the same weight? If so, this would account for the fact that the hot hatches seem very top heavy. Sometimes after going over an inside curb I swear that the engine must be mounted on the roof!

Quote from MaximUK :

If we assume Eric works at least 80% of the hours that Scawen does (excluding the period he put in for for the end of U and for V because no-one could maintain that) then there must be a lot of his work we haven't seen. Track and car modeling takes a long time at the quality Eric produces them but it has still been a long while since we have seen the fruits of his labour. I guess he may have been doing texture updates for the current tracks or higher polygon car models, and he has most likely been doing the car interiors, but I would still be very surprised if we don't get a few new cars or a multi layout circuit when S2 goes final.

Maxim

I was actually quite surprised that we didn't see new GTR interiors in Patch V. I thought for sure they would be in the next major (non-test) patch since it's a graphics change that would almost certainly be compatible.

I know the devs like to work at their own pace but I really, really wish they would leverage the talents of the community a bit more. I'd love to see contests or submission requests for textures, car models, track layouts, etc. You just know that a ton of the people from this forum would submit quality work that we could all enjoy without asking for a dime in compensation. There could be a fully high-res version of LFS (as an optional download) in no time flat, not to mention dozens of new car types and tracks to keep us busy for a long time to come. And Scawen would still have time to work on things like the sounds, clutch model, radiator damage, track temps, overheating brakes, etc. Seems like a win-win scenario and I'm truly surprised we haven't seen something like this from the devs.

Regardless, LFS is still the best racing sim on the market, hands down. I've spent more time with it than any other game and would gladly buy it all over again in a heartbeat. Three cheers for Patch V! Onward and upward to S2 Beta!

I am experiencing a problem with the sound system in Patch V. The sounds are delayed about one second and they are very stuttery/echoey. I can try to record the problem if it will help troubleshoot the issue.

I tried several things and was able to narrow down the problem.
Everything works fine in Patch U using either my on-board sound card or my PCI Sound Blaster Live! card.
Everything worked fine in the last test patch I tried (sorry, I don't recall which patch it was and don't know if there's any way to tell now that I've installed V).
Everything works fine in Patch V if I use my on-board AC'97 sound card.
The problem occurs only in Patch V when using the PCI Sound Blaster Live! card.

I tried clean installs of Patch U and Patch V as well as my normal old install and verified what is listed above. The problem is definitely specific to the Sound Blaster card, but it works fine in Patch U and worked fine in previous test patches. Right now I'm up and running fine after changing my primary sound device to the on-board AC'97 device. However; others may experience this problem if they try to use the Sound Blaster Live! card. I also plan to check for updated drivers to see if that fixes the issue, but this is a fairly old piece of hardware and I doubt there are newer drivers than what I have installed. If there are any other steps I should take to narrow down or help resolve the issue, I'd be more than happy to try.

Quote from Flycantbird :

I've only been reading about the patches of late, and am confused about the auto update.

Where do you see this ? Do I have to load previous test patches to try 33 ?

The auto-updater is only included in U32 and higher. You don't have to install all of the test patches up to U33, but you won't see the auto-updater unless you have at least U32 installed.

Quote :

If i copy my LFS folder to a second folder, I'll just use one unlock for the U33 update, and can delete that folder if I want to revert to the old version I've been playing - is this correct ?

Yes. You can have multiple installs at once since LFS is self-contained in its own directory. So, try out U33 (or U32 if you wanna see how the auto-updater works) and if you don't like it you can always play your other, older copy.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Actually they're 45 degress apart instead of waiting for the next revolution, which is why it sounds and runs like a piece of sh*t (Vrod is different, since they realized that they couldn't really make an engine so they asked Porsche )

It's not just that they're 45* apart, but that both cylinders share a common crankpin. Not exactly the brightest idea ever, but you know how people just love that potato-potato sound.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

In no engine would you ever fire cylinders at the same time because they could not be at proper the place in their cycle! (Unless you had an inline engine where all the pistons run an identical cycle). In any other arrangement this would be pretty tough to do without "undoing" the work of other cylinders....

But like you said Vain, & Todd, it seems like LFS is missing the fundamental frequency especially at higher revs...

I'm pretty sure that Cadillac had such an engine. They've produced several V16 engine models and I believe that at least one of them (probably most or all) was basically two V8s. In that case you would have two cylinders firing at once unless they engineered them to be offset from one another.

In any case, it's a very rare occurrance indeed.

I think rally would be a lot more popular if we had some better tracks. I really love driving the FXO in the dirt, but am not very fond of the half dirt, half tarmac tracks. If/when we get longer all-dirt tracks or some sort of dirt track editor (think autocross editor, but with a dirt lot and jumps) then I think it will become much more popular. I think LFS would be a TON of fun if it had stadium tracks and some sort of track editor.

Quote from Scawen :

Higher Wind and Skid boost volumes (default and maximum)

The new auto update feature works great! This is going to be SO handy for staying up to date in the future. Given the number of test patches you crank out, this is probably the best addition so far.

One suggestion I'd like to make is that you change the audio sliders so that "0" or "normal" is in the center and so that all the sliders use the same scale. When you install LFS for the first time all of the sounds should be at the "normal" level which would be in the center. Moving the slider to the left would be negative (-5, for example) and moving to the right would be positive (+5, for example). Having the different sounds all with different levels (2-10 for car sound, 0-20 for music and interface, and 0-2 for everything else) makes things confusing and there's no way to easily know what the default level is. You might also consider dropping the words "boost" from those sounds which list it since it's really unnecessary.

Great job overall. I can't wait to hear the future improvements.

The formula cars show the dash whether you have the wheel on or not.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Yeah if it played a grating noise that would be great. I really miss the physical connection between shifter and clutch. But like I in my last post, I'm only suggesting auto clutch and auto cut for MRT5 since a) we can't get away with not clutch and b) revs don't spike on a bike when you change gear (although I don't ride, I've heard bikes speeding up the motorway slip road... oh how it makes my body tingle). So, while not accurate technically, in terms of the operations performed by the driver, it's most similar.

I'll edit my post to make it clearer.

The thing is that you can shift pretty much any manual transmission car (or bike) without using a clutch, so long as you rev-match. So I would say that the MRT and FOX aren't special conditions at all. We just really need a clutch and gearbox that work properly. If the revs are matched you can shift without a clutch, if they're not you can't.

I think we need four classes of transmission types:

1) cars which use three pedals and an h-shifter.
2) cars which use three pedals and a sequential.
3) cars which use three pedals and a sequential, but also use auto-cut/auto-blip.
4) cars which use two pedals and paddles.

Your average joe road car would be the first class. Cars like the MRT would be the second class (it has a clutch and no auto-cut or auto-blip). GTR cars would be in the third class (you need the clutch to start from a stop but not to shift, and no rev matching is needed). Cars like the BF1 and sports cars like the F355, if we ever get such a thing, would be in the last group (only two pedals, no clutch, no rev matching needed, auto-cut and auto-blip handled by the car). Once it's decided which group each car fits into, the cars should be locked down to that type of drivetrain. But the cars should be set as one type and stay that way. Then the real factor becomes realistic clutch and transmission code, which I'm sure is no small task.

I agree that we need pit crews and animated marshalls. Even if they were only 2D sprites, it would still add a lot to the game. But I want to see more than just MY pit crew. Right now the pit lane feels completely empty. Every track is like a ghost town. I'd like to see my pit crew when I stop, other driver's pit crews when they're stopped, and other people milling around the pits even when no cars are currently pitted. Not to mention things like fuel stations, spare tires, camera crews, etc.

How it should look: http://www.laguna-seca.com/Use ... nday/Picket-Sharp-Pit.jpg

http://www.nationalspeedsportn ... up_BusyPits1_JJackson.jpg

Quote from Bob Smith :

My idea:

H shifter, manual clutch:
UF1, XFG, XRG, XRT, FXO, RB4, LX4, LX6, RAC, FZ5, UF GTR, XF GTR

Sequential shifter, auto clutch, auto cut:
MRT5, FOX, FXO GTR, XR GTR, FZ50 GTR

Paddle shifter, auto clutch, auto cut & blip:
FO8, BF1

I agree with everything except the MRT and FOX. I think both of these would be sequential shifters, but no auto clutch or auto cut. Motorcycles (MRT) can be shifted without using the clutch, but they still have a clutch. And I've never seen a motorcycle that had any sort of auto-cut for shifting.

I know it's on Scawen's list, but we really need a proper clutch model for all of this to work correctly. You should be able to shift (even the H-shifter cars) without using the clutch, but only if you'd be able to do so in real life. In other words, if you use rev matching to do clutchless shifts. Since there's no way to prevent the physical shifter from going into gear we need some sort of audible or visual feedback when you can't change gears.

Quote from KSheppard :

These are all great but what about real life tracks? I mean why not or why isn't there any?

Real tracks require license from the owners to be included in video games. This is why you only see real life tracks in big selling titles.

We know that Patch V will be out really soon. They'll have to update the site when that patch is out so hopefully they can also update some of the things mentioned in the first post at the same time.

I'm eagerly awaiting the next version of this tool. Combined with LFSTV this could be an excellent way to watch live races without missing important events and without needing a live person (or crew of people) to manage the cameras.

Edit: A few quick suggestions of things to think about for future versions...

Prioritizing of events by the user on a 1-X scale. For instance, a car hitting a wall might have highest camera priority (1), while a car passing another has a priority of 2 or 3, a car going onto the grass has a priority of 7, a pit stop has a priority of 8, etc. So, if two events are taking place at once the program knows which to focus on. You could even have two cars X meters apart with one priority and two cars with X+10 meters apart as another, lower priority.

I'm not sure if it's possible since you're using Shift-U for the cameras, but in-car cams, bumper cams, and rearward facing cams would be nice to see as well. It would help break up the monotony of the dozen or so static track cameras.

Last edited by Cue-Ball, Fri 27 Oct 2006, 20:52.