I'm very sorry to hear that you're stopping development, Becky. Especially because of something that was started on these forums. I use Companion all the time and really enjoy it. It's become an indespensable tool for online racing, for me.
I know that it was discussed in the past, and that you were totally against the idea at the time...but if you're going to stop work on the tool completely I wish you would consider releasing the source code. I understand that you didn't want to do that when you were still doing development, but now that you have stopped working on it, making it an open source tool could really have a lot of benefits for all of us, as racers. I personally can barely program Hello World, but there are a lot of other guys here that I think could take the ball and run with it without the work necessary in starting from scratch. Anyway, just something for you to consider.
Good luck with STCC and your other endeavors. I'm sure that the STCC series will be a huge success (everyone loves the video recaps).
Available through Dell and CDW.
Definitely good points. I wanted to give an honest opinion and bring up some possible negatives that people might want to know about if they're thinking about getting this wheel. Many of the posts about the G25 so far have basically been comparing it to the second coming, and I wanted to temper those a bit with some real world experience and constructive criticism.
I still think it's a quality product and worth the price, but possibly not up to the standards that some were expecting (myself included). I also don't expect it to be on the level of ECCI pedals or BRD wheels, but it seems that some of the things that were done wrong could have been fixed at no additional cost. For instance, the buttons on the shifter would have been much better if they were on the "dashboard" portion of the wheel, in easier reach. The shifter might be better if it used different springs or had a 2" longer shaft. I still like the product, and I think it's good value, but that's not to say that it's perfect and couldn't use some improvement or that it wouldn't benefit from different design decisions.
I still think it's a quality product and worth the price, but possibly not up to the standards that some were expecting (myself included). I also don't expect it to be on the level of ECCI pedals or BRD wheels, but it seems that some of the things that were done wrong could have been fixed at no additional cost. For instance, the buttons on the shifter would have been much better if they were on the "dashboard" portion of the wheel, in easier reach. The shifter might be better if it used different springs or had a 2" longer shaft. I still like the product, and I think it's good value, but that's not to say that it's perfect and couldn't use some improvement or that it wouldn't benefit from different design decisions.
In my real car I hold the shifter from the side, as you state. But the shifter in the G25 is so small that it's almost impossible to do without pinching my fingers. I'm going to try to rig something up to move the shifter further down and back tonight. Hopefully this will make a positive difference in ease of shifting because I'll be less likely to push down on the shifter (since it will be lower) and I'll be able to find the gears easier since it's closer.
But even if I do manage to move it, I still want to investigate what it will take to put in a longer shift lever and stiffer springs. It just feels way to dainty right now. I want a chunky, manly shifter.
No, I am not pleased with them. As I said in my review, the gas and brake pedals are too far apart while the clutch and brake pedals are too close together. This makes heel-toe (or in my case, side-of-foot - toe) hard to do.
I don't want to have to "get used to it". I want something that feels authentic in the first place. If I can drive a stick shift car in real life, I should be able to drive a stick shift car in a sim. Of course I was the one making the mistakes in shifting. And I was making mistakes because the gates are very close and the stick is very short with soft springs. Also, because of the way the stick has to be pushed down for reverse, it's easy to put too much pressure on the stick and get it stuck between gears. As I've already said, I think that a longer shift lever and stiffer springs could work wonders. It's just a matter of figuring out how hard this will be to accomplish and whether or not the mechanism can take the extra abuse.
I don't think this is really feasible. Unlike the DFP pedals the platform for these pedals extends behind the pedals quite a bit. I have a feeling this extension of the platform would get in the way if you tried to invert mount them. I haven't given a real close look to what it would take to disassemble and swap the gas and clutch pedal, but I somehow doubt it would be trivial. I think the easiest solution is going to be to remove the actual pedals themselves, drill a couple of new holes in the gas and brake, and then remount them closer to each other.
I hate to think about voiding my warrantee on a brand new piece of hardware, but the shifter really does bother me. I have a feeling that before the weekend is over I will have disassembled the shifter to see if I can lengthen the shaft and put in stiffer springs.
These should all be server side options. If someone is a newbie and needs to be able to reset or jump to the pits, that's fine. But people who want a more realistic experience and leagues should be able to disable these things.
Bad idea. It should remain an option as it is now. If I'm hosting a game for three friends and two of them show up, I want to be able to race while we're waiting for the last guy. If he shows up 10 laps into a race, fine. I want him to be able to join. He won't have a shot at winning, but at least he won't have to sit there spectating until we finish. For "serious" or league races, they can still disallow mid-race join.
Many race series have data logging which allows them to monitor tire temperatures and pressures on the fly (FIA GT, for instance). So there's no reason at all for this to be removed. Also, until we all have pit chiefs and crews who can monitor these things for us, we need a good visual representation. As long as I'm doing the job of the driver, the crew chief, the engineer, etc., I need the same data that they would have.
Sorry, but many of us still want to be able to enforce a LOT more server side options, such as no auto clutch, no auto blip, and forced setups.
I also would like to see either a "hardcore mode" or, preferably, server side control over most any game option. As a person who recently purchased a G25 I can tell you that it's a LOT harder to drive quickly than it is when using auto blip, auto clutch, etc. With one exception, the guys I generally play LFS with also have clutches. We would like to race with others, but only if we're on equal footing. As the host of the server I should be able to prevent people from joining if they're using aids which make the game easier or which make them faster. Also, LFS should definitely be changed so that running auto clutch, auto blip, etc are slower and more fallible. Proper clutch modeling and an imperfect auto clutch should be priorities for development, IMO.
I really like the cog layout that you have here and many people have asked for more realistic gears in the past. Showing the number of teeth on the input/output cog is how other games like GTR show their gears. It makes sense, it's realistic, and it prevents the "infinite setup" issue that we have now (or at least, it hopefully would be limted to prevent that).
Logitech G25 reviews
I received my G25 last night and was able to try it out for about three hours using LFS. I know a lot of people are eagerly awaiting this wheel so I figured I'd post my initial impressions after a night of heavy use.
The first thing that gives you an impression is that the box seems smaller than you'd think and is a lot heavier than you'd think. Even though there's a third pedal and a shifter in there, it's not much bigger than the DFP box. My listed shipping weight was over 20lbs, so it's no lightweight either.
After unpacking the box and hooking everything up I came to a few conclusions. They made a very good decision by having the cables all plug in to a recessed portion of the wheel. No more problems with the power cord disconnecting in the middle of a race. Unfortunately, they also made a mistake with the wiring in that the wire to connect the pedals to the wheel is much too short. I should have measured the actual length before writing this review, but suffice it to say that the cord is barely long enough to reach and it quite often ends up in the way of my right foot when driving. I'm most likely going to have to make an extension cable using radio shack parts. This mistake is almost unforgiveable to me.
I uninstalled the old Wingman software and installed the new v.5 that comes with the G25. I left the Wingman software at 100% forces, but turned off the "extra" unnecessary forces and unchecked "combined pedals" (God only knows why this is checked as default). I plugged in the wheel and made sure it worked in the control panel applet, then opened LFS and set it up in game. Setup was quite easy. The throttle, brake, and clutch were setup correctly out of the box (I was using a DFP before, so this is probably why). I just had to configure the shifter and other buttons since they do not correspond to the ones on the DFP which I was using before. Make sure that when you try to setup LFS you choose "shifter" in the options. If you currently have a wheel you most likely have "sequential" selected.
Once I had a chance to use it in game I came away with several impressions of the device. First and foremost, this wheel is far and away better than the DFP. The circumference of the wheel itself is so much larger that it feels much more real in your hands. The wheel itself has less girth than the DFP which also makes it feel more realistic and less like a playstation controller. In addition, the leather on the wheel is very comfortable and looks great. However; after long driving sessions you may find that the stitching rubs your thumbs a bit raw. The wheel itself feels much more solid than the one on the DFP with less "play" in the steering and an overall heftier feel. Not to mention that the force feedback is superb. This is, bar none, the best force feedback wheel I've ever used and I prefer it to my friend's ECCI non-FF wheel. The forces are smooth and consistent and there's no "notchy" feeling that you get when you turn the DFP more than 90* or so. There's much less gear noise than you get with the DFP, but that's not to say the wheel is silent. The FF still generates noise which reverberates through your desk (or, at least, my desk). So, while it is quieter, don't expect it to be whisper quiet like an arcade machine driving wheel.
The pedals look and feel very nice. The metal finish adds a lot to the presentation and the base of the pedals is very hefty and sturdy. I get the impression that these pedals will last much longer and take much more abuse than anything else out there, save for the high-end stuff companies like ECCI and BRD make. The pedals are much stiffer than the previous stuff that logitech has released. The brake pedal in particular has a very satisfying heavy resistance which should make it easier to prevent locking up the brakes unintentionally. I do have a complaint about the pedals though. The gas and brake are too far apart, and the clutch and brake are too close together. I'm not sure who designed this, but they've got their dimensions all wrong. Because I now have a complete setup (clutch and H-shifter) I turned off all the aids in LFS. No more auto clutch, no more auto blip. With these aids off it is necessary to heel-toe the throttle and brake to get smooth downshifts. Doing this on the G25s pedals is difficult at best. Doing it without shoes on, which is the way I normally drive sims, can be downright painful. I have full intentions of removing the pedal pads and moving them so that the gas and brake are closer together. In addition, I may end up having to drive with shoes on because the edges of the pedals can be somewhat sharp and painful after a few hours of use. In fact, a friend of mine who also got his G25 had to finally stop driving last night because his feet hurt so badly. YMMV, of course.
Now, on to the shifter. The H-shifter included with this wheel was the thing I was most looking forward to and, it figures, the thing I'm most disappointed with. It's a nice looking unit which mounts very solidly to the desk. Unfortunately, the way in which it mounts places it very high and far away. The shift lever itself ends up at about the same height as the one on the DFP. Not a problem in sequential mode, but it can be difficult to handle in H-mode. The majority of the buttons for the G25 are on the shifter base and they are placed behind the shift lever itself (furthest away from you). This makes reaching the top buttons and hat a stretch, and makes hitting the bottom buttons difficult because they're blocked by the shifter. Also, the shifter itself leaves a lot to be desired. Gear engagements make a satisfying click, but the lever is so short, the gates are so close, and the springs are soft enough that mis-shifts were common for me. I definitely think that the shifter would benefit from being an inch or two longer and having a much heavier spring. I lost count of the number of times I downshifted from 5th to 2nd last night. Perhaps this would be less of an issue if the shifter were mounted lower in a more natural position, but without building a custom mounting spot I won't be able to test this theory. I think that the shifter assembly would have been a much better unit if it a) mounted lower b) had a longer shift lever c) had stiffer springs and d) had the buttons mounted behind the shifter instead of in front of it (closer to the driver).
All in all, the G25 is a huge improvement over the DFP. The wheel itself is far and away better and really can't even be compared other than the fact that they're made by the same company and both support 900* rotation. However; I feel that the shifter and pedals leave a lot to be desired. I had high hopes for this piece of equipment and now will end up disassembling much of it to see if I can fix the things that I'm not pleased with. This is of course all personal opinion based on my own experiece (and that of a friend) and you may have a different experience. But I do think that I've given a fair and honest review. If anyone has any questions about the wheel or accessories I'd be happy to try to answer them.
The first thing that gives you an impression is that the box seems smaller than you'd think and is a lot heavier than you'd think. Even though there's a third pedal and a shifter in there, it's not much bigger than the DFP box. My listed shipping weight was over 20lbs, so it's no lightweight either.
After unpacking the box and hooking everything up I came to a few conclusions. They made a very good decision by having the cables all plug in to a recessed portion of the wheel. No more problems with the power cord disconnecting in the middle of a race. Unfortunately, they also made a mistake with the wiring in that the wire to connect the pedals to the wheel is much too short. I should have measured the actual length before writing this review, but suffice it to say that the cord is barely long enough to reach and it quite often ends up in the way of my right foot when driving. I'm most likely going to have to make an extension cable using radio shack parts. This mistake is almost unforgiveable to me.
I uninstalled the old Wingman software and installed the new v.5 that comes with the G25. I left the Wingman software at 100% forces, but turned off the "extra" unnecessary forces and unchecked "combined pedals" (God only knows why this is checked as default). I plugged in the wheel and made sure it worked in the control panel applet, then opened LFS and set it up in game. Setup was quite easy. The throttle, brake, and clutch were setup correctly out of the box (I was using a DFP before, so this is probably why). I just had to configure the shifter and other buttons since they do not correspond to the ones on the DFP which I was using before. Make sure that when you try to setup LFS you choose "shifter" in the options. If you currently have a wheel you most likely have "sequential" selected.
Once I had a chance to use it in game I came away with several impressions of the device. First and foremost, this wheel is far and away better than the DFP. The circumference of the wheel itself is so much larger that it feels much more real in your hands. The wheel itself has less girth than the DFP which also makes it feel more realistic and less like a playstation controller. In addition, the leather on the wheel is very comfortable and looks great. However; after long driving sessions you may find that the stitching rubs your thumbs a bit raw. The wheel itself feels much more solid than the one on the DFP with less "play" in the steering and an overall heftier feel. Not to mention that the force feedback is superb. This is, bar none, the best force feedback wheel I've ever used and I prefer it to my friend's ECCI non-FF wheel. The forces are smooth and consistent and there's no "notchy" feeling that you get when you turn the DFP more than 90* or so. There's much less gear noise than you get with the DFP, but that's not to say the wheel is silent. The FF still generates noise which reverberates through your desk (or, at least, my desk). So, while it is quieter, don't expect it to be whisper quiet like an arcade machine driving wheel.
The pedals look and feel very nice. The metal finish adds a lot to the presentation and the base of the pedals is very hefty and sturdy. I get the impression that these pedals will last much longer and take much more abuse than anything else out there, save for the high-end stuff companies like ECCI and BRD make. The pedals are much stiffer than the previous stuff that logitech has released. The brake pedal in particular has a very satisfying heavy resistance which should make it easier to prevent locking up the brakes unintentionally. I do have a complaint about the pedals though. The gas and brake are too far apart, and the clutch and brake are too close together. I'm not sure who designed this, but they've got their dimensions all wrong. Because I now have a complete setup (clutch and H-shifter) I turned off all the aids in LFS. No more auto clutch, no more auto blip. With these aids off it is necessary to heel-toe the throttle and brake to get smooth downshifts. Doing this on the G25s pedals is difficult at best. Doing it without shoes on, which is the way I normally drive sims, can be downright painful. I have full intentions of removing the pedal pads and moving them so that the gas and brake are closer together. In addition, I may end up having to drive with shoes on because the edges of the pedals can be somewhat sharp and painful after a few hours of use. In fact, a friend of mine who also got his G25 had to finally stop driving last night because his feet hurt so badly. YMMV, of course.
Now, on to the shifter. The H-shifter included with this wheel was the thing I was most looking forward to and, it figures, the thing I'm most disappointed with. It's a nice looking unit which mounts very solidly to the desk. Unfortunately, the way in which it mounts places it very high and far away. The shift lever itself ends up at about the same height as the one on the DFP. Not a problem in sequential mode, but it can be difficult to handle in H-mode. The majority of the buttons for the G25 are on the shifter base and they are placed behind the shift lever itself (furthest away from you). This makes reaching the top buttons and hat a stretch, and makes hitting the bottom buttons difficult because they're blocked by the shifter. Also, the shifter itself leaves a lot to be desired. Gear engagements make a satisfying click, but the lever is so short, the gates are so close, and the springs are soft enough that mis-shifts were common for me. I definitely think that the shifter would benefit from being an inch or two longer and having a much heavier spring. I lost count of the number of times I downshifted from 5th to 2nd last night. Perhaps this would be less of an issue if the shifter were mounted lower in a more natural position, but without building a custom mounting spot I won't be able to test this theory. I think that the shifter assembly would have been a much better unit if it a) mounted lower b) had a longer shift lever c) had stiffer springs and d) had the buttons mounted behind the shifter instead of in front of it (closer to the driver).
All in all, the G25 is a huge improvement over the DFP. The wheel itself is far and away better and really can't even be compared other than the fact that they're made by the same company and both support 900* rotation. However; I feel that the shifter and pedals leave a lot to be desired. I had high hopes for this piece of equipment and now will end up disassembling much of it to see if I can fix the things that I'm not pleased with. This is of course all personal opinion based on my own experiece (and that of a friend) and you may have a different experience. But I do think that I've given a fair and honest review. If anyone has any questions about the wheel or accessories I'd be happy to try to answer them.
A Driving Force Pro with the standard steering wheel removed, then a new hub and real automotive steering wheel put in its place. This allows you to have a full size wheel just like a real car. The drawback is that normal steering wheels don't have buttons all over them, so you have to rewire the playstation buttons and hat control elsewhere, or just do without them at all.
It looks like Amazon screwed up. I'm guessing they listed the wheel as available before they actually had it, because orders placed through them were postponed to arrive in early December!
I placed an order through Dell and it has been shipped out. It should arrive Wednesday. My friend who had ordered through Amazon cancelled his order and reordered through CDW. Their price was cheaper, their shipping was cheaper, and the didn't charge him tax. So, he'll have to wait a few days extra, but will save about $50 in the process.
I placed an order through Dell and it has been shipped out. It should arrive Wednesday. My friend who had ordered through Amazon cancelled his order and reordered through CDW. Their price was cheaper, their shipping was cheaper, and the didn't charge him tax. So, he'll have to wait a few days extra, but will save about $50 in the process.
That's very strange. On Wednesday the page said that the item had not yet been released. Then yesterday the page said that it was available and in-stock. Now today it says it's not released again.
I'm going to have to check with Amazon to see what's going on, but if they had an item listed as being in stock and it doesn't ship when it was supposed to there will be hell to pay!
Logitech G25 now available through Amazon.com
For those of you who live in the US and have been waiting for this wheel, it's now available and in-stock. I've already ordered mine and a friend has ordered his as well. 
Just an FYI.
Just an FYI.
I can confirm that Companion works just fine in single player mode. I use it when practicing against the AI. Not sure if it works in hotlap mode or not (but I seem to recall that it does), but it probably wouldn't be much use anyway since there are no other cars on the track.
The Xbox 360 has PLENTY of processing power. More than the average PC by far. Try to run a game at 1080i resolution on a $400 PC and see how well that works.
Again, not true. Consoles these days (ever since the Xbox) can be patched and have updates released. There are items for many games these days which are only available via download (cars for Test Drive Unlimited, for example). It's definitely not a game of "make the game and sit back" either since many console games - especially sports games - release a new version every single year. Most PC games don't do releases anywhere near this often.
The same is true for consoles. The difference is that consoles rarely need patches because they are designed for a locked system. If everyone who played PC games had the same motherboard, same sound card, same video card, etc. there would be little need for patching PC games.
Again, not true. Consoles haven't been aimed at kids since the Super Nintendo and Genesis days. The average age of a console gamer these days is 30! It's not an age thing at all.
Win or lose, a good battle with another driver is what makes a race fun and memorable for me. I don't care about winning so much as I care about beating "that guy".
I don't know about that, but early builds did have a stunts-style track with a large jump, huge banked turns, etc.
I still wish the devs would give us that track, if for no other reason than to let us play around on it.
Excellent movie! Even with so little action it still was good. The few typos were definitely noticeable though, and I probably would have avoided some of the close-ups on the low res signs, but those are just niggles.
Good work.
Good work.
I'm trying to watch but can't get it to work.
Open stream here:
Server 1
offline
Server 2
offline
Server 3
offline
Looks like all the servers are offline. I'm trying to use VLC or Media Player Classic but can't even get a stream to open.
edit: got it working now. apparently VLC wasn't associated with .pls files. I'm running off server #1 which seems to be struggling for bandwidth (increasing VLCs cache helped) and #2/#3 both are passworded.
Open stream here:
Server 1
offline
Server 2
offline
Server 3
offline
Looks like all the servers are offline. I'm trying to use VLC or Media Player Classic but can't even get a stream to open.
edit: got it working now. apparently VLC wasn't associated with .pls files. I'm running off server #1 which seems to be struggling for bandwidth (increasing VLCs cache helped) and #2/#3 both are passworded.
Last edited by Cue-Ball, .
Doesn't that sorta take...ages? I mean, watching/"camera-ing" the race 12 times, then doing a rough edit, then doing a re-edit, then adding the commentary.
I'm also curious what software you're using that will allow you to play back 12 streams simultaneously. Are you using actual broadcast equipment of some sort?
I'm also curious what software you're using that will allow you to play back 12 streams simultaneously. Are you using actual broadcast equipment of some sort?
Yes, I understand that. But it doesn't appear that Companion is looking for crashes, off-road moments, car damage, etc. It records sector times, lap times, car position, etc but doesn't look for "hot moments". This is something that LFS movie maker used to do and I thought it would be useful here as well.
I know you guys are using LFS Companion's data output and parsing abilities to get the statistics for each race. I'm not sure if you've considered it or not (or maybe you're already doing this and I don't realize it) but Companion might also be very helpful when making replays. For instance, you could have it watch for gained positions, off-track excursions, pit stops, damage, etc. When any of those things happen it could output to a log file or a second page of stats. This would allow you to quickly replay the race (say, at 16X speed) then look at the log file. Before "filming" or editing even begins you would know exactly what car has a crash and when. You'd know when a car gains a position and exactly when it happens. You'd know whenever someone pits. You get the idea.
I'm guessing that this could save a TON of time during editing because you'd know exactly which cars you need to focus on at all times. Since you don't have dozens of camera men watching the track simultaneously, this might make creating the replays faster and easier while also helping prevent missing any of the action.
I'm guessing that this could save a TON of time during editing because you'd know exactly which cars you need to focus on at all times. Since you don't have dozens of camera men watching the track simultaneously, this might make creating the replays faster and easier while also helping prevent missing any of the action.
Very interesting. That's the first time I've ever seen the real RA as well. I'm still not a big fan of the car (either IRL or in-game) but it was nice to see it out in the real world instead of just on screen in the game.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG