No, we don't know of any other track development beyond some updates to current tracks. Anything else we say here on the forum is pure speculation or wishing 
As far as the grip goes, it was covered pretty well in this thread.
I had never driven a car to the limit when I started driving LFS. It was good, but I thought that the cars understeered to easily and the back end would step out too easily.
After actually driving my car on the track, and actually putting a car on or near the limit of adhesion, I can say with more confidence that LFS is very close to being correct. Even with my paltry 170hp in a 3200lb car, I can get the back to step out if I pinch corner exits while applying too much power. I can get the car to understeer through corners. I even had my instructors compliment me on recovering a slide even though I hadn't even realized I had reacted. My muscles just responded appropriately. I attribute this in part to LFS.
You really can't evaluate LFS at the limit by comparing it to street driving. Unless you are a total moron, you just don't put your car on the limit and hold it there on real roads. If you take your car to a track day, once you get used to the g forces, you will start to feel subtle things that you can easily correlate to how LFS behaves.
As far as the grip goes, it was covered pretty well in this thread.
I had never driven a car to the limit when I started driving LFS. It was good, but I thought that the cars understeered to easily and the back end would step out too easily.
After actually driving my car on the track, and actually putting a car on or near the limit of adhesion, I can say with more confidence that LFS is very close to being correct. Even with my paltry 170hp in a 3200lb car, I can get the back to step out if I pinch corner exits while applying too much power. I can get the car to understeer through corners. I even had my instructors compliment me on recovering a slide even though I hadn't even realized I had reacted. My muscles just responded appropriately. I attribute this in part to LFS.
You really can't evaluate LFS at the limit by comparing it to street driving. Unless you are a total moron, you just don't put your car on the limit and hold it there on real roads. If you take your car to a track day, once you get used to the g forces, you will start to feel subtle things that you can easily correlate to how LFS behaves.
That is what I meant by unstable. You would have to constantly be forcing the steering wheel to maintain your direction and the feeback would be extreme. It seems like you would also have the undesireable effect of turning the steering wheel just a tad, and have the front wheels want to turn very quickly to a much higher angle forcing you to fight to hold the steering wheel where you want it. It would be very twitchy indeed. (It would be just like driving LFS with negative force feedback. In other words, working backwards from what it does now)
Yeah, and wouldn't the car be amazingly unstable if it were actually set at 0? I am no car suspension geometry expert, but some small amount of caster (wheel behind the attachment point for the horn) would be essential for stability.
Le Mans is the track I have been using in rFactor lately too... for obvious reasons. Wistful thinking, but a Le Mans-like track developed by Eric for LFS would be awesome. 24 Hour races on Kyoto GP Long are great, but an 8+ mile long track with some longish straights would be cool.
Maybe, but marshals do remove stuck cars from gravel traps and in some cases help push start stalled cars. Tow trucks are used etc. If a car was on its roof and still drivable, the tow truck could drop it and the car could continue. You are dealing with absolutes when the real world, and even real racing, is full of variables. Don't presume to know it all and therefore dictate to everybody else how it should be.
No, it hasn't. Turn 1 is a problem and will always be a problem. Racers who take things more seriously will always be more careful than somebody who is less serious about it, or who simply is having a bad day. A sim is only as "realistic" as you want to make it when it comes to rules and attitudes.
Yep, because there are options that are not "realistic" in the game now. But there are so many things that are absent from any sim that you do make exceptions to make the game playable and enjoyable. Draconian limitations only means that a very small subset of a very small community will be interested. It is especially pointless because organizations, like the STCC, can setup their own environments and rules to control this sort of thing all on their own without limitations being globally made by the developers who are being hounded by a minority
Some of us did, some of us made comments, and some of us have stated our position on this multiple times in the past whenever this discussion comes up.
The point is this is a game. Oh, don't get all horrified, yes, it is a simulator of a racing. But it is still a game. It should be enjoyable. It should be flexible. Quick pickup races on a public server should not be hobbled by rules and restrictions designed strictly for league, or one form of racing. Offline use should also not be unduly restricted. There does need to be focus. This is a racing simulator, therefore, the focus should go there. This is not a crashemup game, this is not a carwars game, it is a racing game. If a by-product is other forms of motorsports, then fine. But development time shouldn't be focused on those things.
I just want to reinforce that he said "Scawen said there will be new cars soon"
Which does not mean that there will be new cars in Patch X.
It only means that we can hope for new cars sometime in the (hopefully near) future.
Great stuff though
Which does not mean that there will be new cars in Patch X.
It only means that we can hope for new cars sometime in the (hopefully near) future.
Great stuff though
Let's not forget about the Panoz Esperante either. It has a live rear axel and gee, it won its class at Le Mans last year.
Having said that, I still would like to see US car manufacturers produce something other than the Corvette that could tickle my fancy a bit more. The old Cadillacs are coming along, but they are still too big and heavy.
I do agree that the front wheel drive race cars commonly seen on the track in touring car races don't do it for me either. They are fine cars, I am sure, but I just like rwd cars better.
Having said that, I still would like to see US car manufacturers produce something other than the Corvette that could tickle my fancy a bit more. The old Cadillacs are coming along, but they are still too big and heavy.
I do agree that the front wheel drive race cars commonly seen on the track in touring car races don't do it for me either. They are fine cars, I am sure, but I just like rwd cars better.
Yeah, no kidding.
I can't express completely what a shock it is to actually drive a car on the track, in anger as it were. The braking forces, the lateral g's (even if less than 1) are brutal compared to anything you do on a real road (unless you are wrecking or just plain insane). When I say brutal, I mean brutal. I am not trying to use a word for shock value. And we are talking about my stock car here; not some race car.
You go a lot slower in a real car on a real track as compared to a sim because of these sensations. It takes a lot of time to get used to these things and to then start to feel what the car is doing underneath you. LFS forces you to feel these things using vision, force feedback and sound. All these things are present in the real car too, they are just masked by the noise, g loads, heat, and smells (yes, smells, brake dust, burning clutches, burning petrol, ah yes... heaven). Once you start feeling these more subtle things, it is very surprising how close LFS comes to matching.
One other thing to consider. LFS makes tires very slippery when they are cold, even the street tires. Make sure the tires are green inside and out before doing a comparison. Real street tires don't have a lot of grip change between cold and hot. Over heated street tires will get greasy, ask me how I know, but not too horribly bad.
Exactly, you really can't compare city or even country driving to track driving. It is also hard to compare LFS to track driving for normal people because you will drive LFS so much harder.
From some limited experience, I can say that LFS does a very good job of modeling car behavior on the track.
If you are driving the GTT, then the turbo lag will get you in the corners. It is actually a pretty powerful car for the tires it uses.
Turn 1 at Blackwood would be a 25mph corner in the real world, maybe less. But in the LFS racing world, it is taken at nearly 50mph in the demo cars. If you slam on the brakes and try to turn in especially if you turn the wheel a lot, you will understeer. If you still have massive steering input in and mash the loud pedal, you will spin out in the rwd cars. This is very true to life.
I would add to that post that it would be nice to have a way to control the flags externally. That way it could be customized for multi-class endurance racing. Something that tracks the overall progress like the Tracker, and can inteligently show blue flags. I would have GTR's sneak up on me too and we never knew if they were ahead or behind us.
I would like to thank the LOTA organizers for inviting me and Osoi to race in this outstanding event. We had a great time overall.
The 050 LOTA 2 team had a difficult time early on and lost some laps because of a few offs. We fought on and did the best we could. We got some great support from Team Mercury. As a result, we didn't have to drive in the ugly hours of 2AM to 6AM our time. We made great progress during the night coming from 27th back up to 19th by the end.
I would like to apologize to any LX6 or micro GTR that I may have abused. It took me a stint or two to get the rhythm of the passing down. I tried to be ultra patient and not push things, but still, some bumps happened. One LX6 I punted coming out of the chicane. It happened I think because they expected me to try and pass them in the chicane, but I wasn't going to try that. They took a weird line, got loose, and I couldn't stop in time.
Overall, it was a fantastic event! Well done.
The 050 LOTA 2 team had a difficult time early on and lost some laps because of a few offs. We fought on and did the best we could. We got some great support from Team Mercury. As a result, we didn't have to drive in the ugly hours of 2AM to 6AM our time. We made great progress during the night coming from 27th back up to 19th by the end.
I would like to apologize to any LX6 or micro GTR that I may have abused. It took me a stint or two to get the rhythm of the passing down. I tried to be ultra patient and not push things, but still, some bumps happened. One LX6 I punted coming out of the chicane. It happened I think because they expected me to try and pass them in the chicane, but I wasn't going to try that. They took a weird line, got loose, and I couldn't stop in time.
Overall, it was a fantastic event! Well done.
Although I agree with most of what has been said here concerning suspension damage, I don't think that can be accomplished until the contact patch issue gets resolved.
Now, this is just from observation, not from anything Scawen has mentioned, but it seems the tire/contact patch model only handles one pressure point or contact point. If your tire is hitting a curb, it will be touching the pavement and the curb at the same time in two different places. Search for "exploding curbs" in the bugs forum.
The current model doesn't handle this situation so you get some very strange forces through the system. Just park a car on one of the cracks in the little kink curb on KY2 that is just before the turn onto the oval section. Your car will start hopping and vibrating. This is what everybody calls "explosive curbs". If you drive over them slowly, you will get suspension damage. This is because large forces are generated because of the double contact points on the tire.
Until that is fixed, more advanced suspension damage will just cause unwarranted problems.
I do agree that flying over the monster high curbs on the FE tracks (and others) at full throttle should cause massive damage to the car. I just don't think this can happen until the above is fixed.
Now, this is just from observation, not from anything Scawen has mentioned, but it seems the tire/contact patch model only handles one pressure point or contact point. If your tire is hitting a curb, it will be touching the pavement and the curb at the same time in two different places. Search for "exploding curbs" in the bugs forum.
The current model doesn't handle this situation so you get some very strange forces through the system. Just park a car on one of the cracks in the little kink curb on KY2 that is just before the turn onto the oval section. Your car will start hopping and vibrating. This is what everybody calls "explosive curbs". If you drive over them slowly, you will get suspension damage. This is because large forces are generated because of the double contact points on the tire.
Until that is fixed, more advanced suspension damage will just cause unwarranted problems.
I do agree that flying over the monster high curbs on the FE tracks (and others) at full throttle should cause massive damage to the car. I just don't think this can happen until the above is fixed.
No, the correct answer is 11.
Nice work BBT! I love the concept. But you know way more about LFS than any normal person should know.
I tried hitting P to restart. It didn't seem to work for me. I will try it again tonight.
I am using W23 at this point.
I was driving hotlaps on SO4. I hit p to pause the game. I hit shift+R to go to the replay. LFS is still responsive, but no replay is playing and the screen is blank other than the blue-ish background. I can hit escape to bring up the menu. If I hit shift+R again and I get a message of replay restarted and an error message... I now can't remember the error message
Using the escape menu, you can go to the pits or whatever else you need, but the replay won't play.
I was driving hotlaps on SO4. I hit p to pause the game. I hit shift+R to go to the replay. LFS is still responsive, but no replay is playing and the screen is blank other than the blue-ish background. I can hit escape to bring up the menu. If I hit shift+R again and I get a message of replay restarted and an error message... I now can't remember the error message
Using the escape menu, you can go to the pits or whatever else you need, but the replay won't play.
1) No yelling for features
2) Who do you think put that message in the program? Do you think Windows can magically figure out that AI can't drive the pit lane?
It is WAD for now (Working As Designed).Go to LFS World and download the world record hot laps. Watch what they do. You won't be able to do the same thing, but you will learn the line and what to look for. Test drive their cars to see what it feels like.
Go to the Team Inferno site and download some setups and see what you like.
Then, if you really want a critique, post a replay of your driving with a few laps in it.
Go to the Team Inferno site and download some setups and see what you like.
Then, if you really want a critique, post a replay of your driving with a few laps in it.
Not that I think the graphics are bad now. I think they are quite good.
I have a good solid computer. I would just need a better graphics card.
I would rather see work done on some different tracks/combos and fixes to track layouts than I would "high res textures".
I have a good solid computer. I would just need a better graphics card.
I would rather see work done on some different tracks/combos and fixes to track layouts than I would "high res textures".
On a street car with a stock brake system, the brakes can very well go away from one corner to the next. It happens plenty at track days. Usually the cause is boiling brake fluid that causes air pockets in the lines. You push the pedal to the floor and you get nothing.
But, Like Mykl says, with a car that is properly setup for racing with super high temp capable fluid and pads, you should only see fading over time as things get too hot.
If you watch racing at all though, you do see most drivers reach over and tap the brake with their left foot while going down the straight, especially a long straight with a tight corner at the end. They are checking for a soft pedal and pumping up the pressure. Do you think they would do that if brakes didn't just go away from one corner to the next? It doesn't happen all that often, but it does happen. (Or you can have a brake disk explode on you like happened to Johnny O at Sebring in the Corvette a few years ago)
I do want to see brake heat modeling. I think we can use sufficient visual indicators (the ones that Tristian normally hates, but seems to be in favor of in this case
) in the interface that we can manage the system.
But, Like Mykl says, with a car that is properly setup for racing with super high temp capable fluid and pads, you should only see fading over time as things get too hot.
If you watch racing at all though, you do see most drivers reach over and tap the brake with their left foot while going down the straight, especially a long straight with a tight corner at the end. They are checking for a soft pedal and pumping up the pressure. Do you think they would do that if brakes didn't just go away from one corner to the next? It doesn't happen all that often, but it does happen. (Or you can have a brake disk explode on you like happened to Johnny O at Sebring in the Corvette a few years ago)
I do want to see brake heat modeling. I think we can use sufficient visual indicators (the ones that Tristian normally hates, but seems to be in favor of in this case
) in the interface that we can manage the system.It is Le Mans "grouping". The ALMS uses the FIA/Le Mans rules (mostly) and all cars that run in the ALMS are eligible for the 24 Hours of Le Mans. For certain races in the ALMS, like Sebring, the class winning cars get an automatic invite to the 24 Hours of Le Mans which is much coveted.
If you live in Sebring then you are lucky. Sebring is the classic American sports car race.
And only in relative terms. Those cars are ugly as a whole... and slow. I do watch GARRA stuff, but it just misses the mark for me.
Turbocharge, if you want to know more about ALMS, since you seem to like the cars, go to www.americanlemans.com. And btw, it is a bit of an insult to call an LMP1 car like the Audi R10 and Grand Am Rolex car.
Yes, I would love to have LMP1 and LMP2 type cars in LFS. It has been asked for many times before though.
I don't know if this would be of any value, but this link has some interesting books available for those of you who really want to get into the details of tire modeling.
http://www.millikenresearch.com/rcvdpae.html
http://www.millikenresearch.com/rcvdpae.html
The RAC is definitely better on throttle lift. Much less oversteering problems there. It does still exist, as it should for a rear/mid-engined car.
I think a locked diff has a purpose and could be used for certain situations. Drag racing immediately pops to mind, but I am sure there are other situations.
I would like to see the recent discussions on the tire physics that was mentioned above. Does anybody have a link? Tire (tyre) physics threads are usually hard to search for because the words are too common.
I think a locked diff has a purpose and could be used for certain situations. Drag racing immediately pops to mind, but I am sure there are other situations.
I would like to see the recent discussions on the tire physics that was mentioned above. Does anybody have a link? Tire (tyre) physics threads are usually hard to search for because the words are too common.
Maybe it is just a naming problem? What if it were called "competition ECU adjustment" instead of "intake restriction"? This would imply something that limited power across the spectrum instead of what an air restrictor would normally do.
If you want to read more about everything that has been discussed before on resets, search in the improvement suggestions forum.
Here is my contribution and a good thread on the topic
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=156616#post156616
Second item:
I kept getting many Yellow Flag warnings when racing offline with the 15 AI cars. The cars were not off track nor spinning. It was very odd. Every few seconds I would get a yellow flag warning, or multiple ones that lasted for a number of seconds, yet like I said before, no AI car actually crashed. Could it be that just small body contact like the AI's seem to incessantly do could cause this?
I don't have the replay, but I think it will be easy to duplicate if necessary.
Here is my contribution and a good thread on the topic
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=156616#post156616
Second item:
I kept getting many Yellow Flag warnings when racing offline with the 15 AI cars. The cars were not off track nor spinning. It was very odd. Every few seconds I would get a yellow flag warning, or multiple ones that lasted for a number of seconds, yet like I said before, no AI car actually crashed. Could it be that just small body contact like the AI's seem to incessantly do could cause this?
I don't have the replay, but I think it will be easy to duplicate if necessary.
Uh, and who exacly does like it?
Cool stuff Dennis. If the software is free to try, then I will download and take a look at some of this.
Still have to get a helmet...
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG