Come on amp, cut him some slack

@venomizer, i'm not sure what you mean with "the online thing", but just to clarify... having a S1/S2 license means you can upload skins on your own accout and people on the erver with you, can download them, if they choose to. You'll have 50 slots, or so, free.

However, you can send skins to your friends to put in their skins folder. If the name is the same, they can see it even though they are not uploaded to LFSW.

The original database was great. There is nothing i can think of that should be changed, imo.

The look and the overview was very good. Something that lacks a little bit on the new one (bose/rocklan?).

Quote from JCTK :

by saying that, it shows what kind of ..... you are, I'll stop short of using the word you used.

it was the stewards that decided to take a look at the situation, not Hamilton the one that whine about it to the big boys.

And mind you, Vettel did get a warning for that incident.

Having said that, yes Webber shouldn't have been that defensive, but whichever way one cut it, Vettel was the one that CAUSED the accident.

You are probably right, but about the big boys... what i didn't made clear is that i meant the situation when Hamilton was talking to Button/Webber just before they gone on the podium. I know that he didn't complaion about the little notch officially. So credit for him for not being that soft and maybe i was a little bit too hard on.

Cheers

Quote from Mustafur :

Its easy for one to point the ignorancy card before anyone uses it on them with fact.

Well, obviously you're trolling and laughing your ass off.

I mean you seem to ignore everything i say and come up with "check his mirrors"?? Are you aware of the phenomenon of the 'blind spot', which is way larger then in a normal car, having the drivers eyes just over the chassis and the helmet fixed on the HANS.
And have you read what i said about the situation of the race?

So yeah, have a good laugh and praise the almighty Webber.

Quote from Mustafur :

Webber left room however Vettel assumed he would move, he didn't check his mirrors so it was his fault, they hadn't reached the braking point yet so i can hardly see how it was overly defensive.

Webber was able to hold his line so how is hes racecraft lacking?

Alright i got ya. Ignorance is a bliss, isn't it? Enjoy yourself.

Quote from JCTK :

I wouldn't say Webber "pushed the luck", because it was still Vettel who turned on him.

What Webber did was normal racing procedure. Turning into someone and then blaming the other for being there? Now that's Vettel's normal racing procedure. (That's what also happened in the pits in China)

He shouldn't have been that defensive. He could have let the pass happen and concentrate on blocking hamilton, or for that matter, challenge Vettel in return, since the next corner was a chicane. By working together, they would have assured the 1-2. I mean, the Mclarens with their f-duct, have better topspeed. Slowing Redbulls even more, in having Vettel wait behind Webber, although he could take advantage of webbers slipstream, would be just stupid. Just like forcing him to stay at the very left side on the dirty part of the surface. And this is probably what Vettel was so pissed off about.

Say last lap, last corner, yeah go for it, but it wasn't the time.

China? What steering? that was at extremely low speed and it was fun! They were measuring their...wheelbase length. That Hamilton goes to the big boys and whines how mean the seb is, just shows what kind of wanker he is, btw.

@ Mustafur, are you serious or are you trolling? What is race craft for you? being passive and not move, although its a battle that's already lost?

He fights his teamate while Hamilton is just waiting for them to loose a good load of time, so he can snap them at once. If both have had made it to the corner, thats what most likely would have happend. I can't argue that this wouldn't have been fun to see (from the dramatic POV). I think it was an important point of the race, seeing as both teams started to slow down in order to finish, may it be fuel or tires.
So in my books, for F1, Webber lacks the race craft.

However, i'm not sure if you are serious or just 'taking the piss' and i don't really know why i made over 20 posts here...
I have my opinion and you have yours. Let the next race come.

Jaz

Quote from JPeace :

But Vettel hadn't completed the move, so technically, Webber had every right to stay right where he was. There wasn't really any need for Vettel to move over anyway. All he had to do was to pick a braking point and hold the inside line.

Indeed, and i never said Vettel did no wrong or anything like that. I merely stating, because it seemed to be ignored often, that there was no need for Webber to push the luck that hard. He made a weak block and as a result he finds the car next to him with 'overlapa'. If he wouldn't be that short sighted (a reason he'll never be F1 Champion), he could have prepared for counter attack, that is if he'd want to have chance for the Victory.
What Vettel did was rather normal racing procedere, considering he passes a team mate, who would have the same interests in letting the main rival behind.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Then we have to disagree.

I would have said: Vettel wasn't completely past Webber yet but couldn't accept that and still turned right towards him.

In the videos it looks like they are pretty close to the braking zone already.

It seems Vettel was in a hurry, while Webber like to take things rather slowly.

Quote from JPeace :

... well he isn't that kind of driver. ...

That's what i thought before too.

PS: In all fairness he didn't ram, having not even a front tire size room, it is actually quite hard to ram, i'd say.

And the accident happened because Webber had his front tire in the rear wheel of SV.

Last edited by JazzOn, Thu, 3 Jun 2010 19:04.

Quote from zeugnimod :

That's not a fact at all, IMO.



Eh...not if the team told him to do "unnecessary slow laptimes" as some rumours say.

I am talking about the overtake, that would have been done quicker if the next corner would be entered from the right side. Vettel had overlap, but Webber couldn't accept that.

Fact.

Quote from Intrepid :

When did this forum become a Vettel fanboy zone.

As soon as it was a Webber fanzone. The balance need to be kept

Last edited by JazzOn, Thu, 3 Jun 2010 18:55. Reason : typo

Fact is, Webber screwed the team by creating the enviroment and forcing the accident. Taking time for unnecessary slow laptimes at the totally wrong moment in the race.

This would be reason enough for the team to be 'mad'.

Quote from c00kie :

I saw that moment briefly on TV, but wanted to see the whole incident again...but:



-.-

see if this works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gX-z8isWcE

BTW

Quote from Mustafur :

crap i forgot to put a poll.

no need because both drivers are at fault

Last edited by JazzOn, Tue, 1 Jun 2010 13:08.

Vettel dominated the previous races and was out because of mechanical failures.


Now put that in your Conspiracy theories, Fanboys. Theres is always 2 sides of a coin.

Quote from Intrepid :

... To literally say to millions of viewers through hand gestures "Webber is a dick head" is indefensible.
...

I agree on that. Heat of the moment and political incorrect. But the emotion is understandable, if you'd be that honest.

I should stop trying to be sarcastic i guess

Quote from sinbad :

I don't understand your point of view. You seem to be of the opinion that where the two cars are on the track has some effect on the rules regarding driving into the side of another car.

Are you saying it's always fair for the driver on the edge of the road to swerve towards the middle, even if there is a car there?

Are you saying the driver furthest from the "racing line" is always allowed to swerve back towards it, even if there's another car there?

At what point does it switch from legal side-swipe to illegal side-swipe? Do you see how your subjective opinion is at odds with the fairly clear-cut rules? If you were the race official you would find it impossible to explain why one side-swipe is different from any other side-swipe.

Look at it simplistically. One driver made an unpredictable deviation from a line that he had driven for a couple of hundred metres, and hit another car. Forget that they are team-mates. This crash was Vettel's fault, and few other drivers would have done what he did. Every other driver would have done what Webber did, especially in his championship position. (Well, except perhaps Vettel, who on this showing might have forced the attacking driver onto the grass).

I don't generalise. I look at this particular case, that could have had another outcome.

BTW not everyone would have done what Webber did. Please look at the same section Hamilton vs Button.

I'm saying that Webber did not act like a sportsman, of what i'm dissapointed of.

And Intrepid, I'm rather interessted in the Sport, than Politics and Speculations. And FTR, i often disagree with Brundle!

Edit QFT:

Quote from bbman :

Webber not having time to react is a lame excuse... One bump could have shifted the cars into each other, if he'd left just one meter between them he could have seen the move coming, but he rather took the risk of being the first one to be collected in case something goes wrong... Which it did..

PS Edit:

Quote from L@gger :

...And if he wanted to defend his position that hard he should made so before he passed him.

Exactly. The block by Webber was weak, if you wanna say so. A proper block and Vettel had no other choice then to let off the throttle.

Last edited by JazzOn, Mon, 31 May 2010 21:39.

Quote from Intrepid :

Webber was more than fair... what are you on about? You scream of extreme fanboyism! Vettel was 100% at fault for the collision. He made the decision to drive HIS car into another car.. another car WHICH HAD not changed it's track position!

LoL, what im on about is that it is not a 'clear cut', as the BBC staff says, (even DC admitted that there is more to it, although he gave 100% fault on Vettel)

You are the one acting as a fanboy. If you can't see that it needs 2 cars for a crash you are just deluded.
I've cheered for Webber and i felt with him at the Australia GP Disaster.

I made my point clear. If my english is that bad, i'm sorry. I can't say anymore without repeating myself over and over again... We are going in circles here.

Peace

Indeed BenjiMC, Life is just more fun - when you're dumb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN-PoetFwUg

Last edited by JazzOn, Mon, 31 May 2010 19:09.

Quote from Zander :

My first try at skinning.


http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8628/sc5d.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6638/sc6a.jpg

If you plan to improve you skinning check this out. It will give you a generall overview for different cars. Be aware that on bend or curvy sections, individual compensation is needed.

Best extreme example is the wheel arches of the FXR to get an idea what happens.

Quote from hazaky :

Not quite sure ...

About smoking?

It's not healthy

Are we suppossed to read between the big-free-room-lines?

Can you write in complete sentences?

Are you in hurry?

What's your twist?

But Webber is suposseably(is that a word?) an expierienced and fair Driver. Well, that didn't show.

However, it will be interessting to see future fights between them, because their relationship is slightly strangled

We'll see...

Quote from obsolum :

If you mean he shouldn't trust Webber to just roll over and let him pass easily then yes, I agree. He shouldn't trust any driver to do that, by the way.

Lets say the track is maybe 6 cars wide. 2 are on the very left side leaving at least 1 car width room for Webber to move and still make it very difficult for Vettel to make the pass stick, considering hes on the dirty left side going for a left hander corner. And dont forget the bumps, which leaves always a tad of guesswork. Something that Mark did not consider at all. He jus kept straight and unlike those guys at BBC, i did not see Webber attemting to make even an inch room. It was unfair and in respect of the team, unpredictable. At these top speed, with open wheelers, there needs to be some room. Not even 1 front tire would have fit between those two cars.

Quote from JJ72 :

So a friend and a teammate should have psychic connection and know exactly when Vettel decides to go back on the racing line........right.

Webber could have eventually let him through, and I am sure he will because his fight was 80% over, but the point is he never had the chance to because Vettel crashed into him......for no reason whatsoever than wishful thinking.

The chance was there when he was able to "touch" Vettels mirrors. At this point he could have moved, at least to the central line for that matter.

And a psychic connection isn't needed, and it never was, since they have fought many times before. Webber should have known that Vettel is a young gun and look ahead for the next corner. Remember that Hamilton was right on their tale, so there was no time to loose, at all.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

To me, an overtake is complete when the overtaker is completely in front of the overtakee:
1. If Vettel was as far behind as he was in front, he wouldn't have overlap and would have to yield.
2. Vettel had enough overlap to hold his inside line.
3. Vettel hadn't completed the pass because he wasn't completely ahead of the car in front.

If someone is passing me on a straight, has 3/4 overlap on me and decides to 'force me wide' by turning at me, you bet I'm going to hold my line and let them spin off my front quarter

I know that and Vettel surely knows that too. He is in F1 because he worked to get there.

You are right, I am just saying he should not have faith in Webber which cost him his own race.

Can you agree on that?

Last edited by JazzOn, Mon, 31 May 2010 17:41.

JJ, i was faster and edited my previous post - yes he trusted Mark and that was the end of his race

But Pringels, he was overtaken already. If they hadn't made contact, Vettel would have been completely infront of him. Webber had to rethink and prepare a counter attack, if he ever wanted any chance for the win.

It was short-sighted, ignorant, selfish and irresponsable.

Vettel's fault was to trust his teammate... who seemed to be a nice guy, down to earth, responsable and a fair sports man. Especially after i have seen the BBC race build up now, it's even more sad Mark did what he did.

If Vettel just knew who Mark really is. Like i said a few times. I am dissapointed of him. Horner always said they can race but give at least a bit room to breath

@JJ, yes between normal rivals, i agree - great fun to watch and it could have been an epic fight. But Vettel obviously thought he was racing a friend and teammate - he surely learned from it...

Last edited by JazzOn, Mon, 31 May 2010 17:23.

Quote from Intrepid :

Why? lol Why would someone defend a position and not make it easy for a rival to get past? Do you know what motor racing actually is? So if someone is faster than you and is behind, you should let them past without issue?

Like why would Webber want to maintain 1st position and maintain the WDC lead? Why would he want to do that now?

Sometimes I wonder about people on this forum... I really do!

FTR he did make it extremely hard for Vettel. He couldn't be more aggressive, and from the POV of the team - stupid. He couldn't have pushed him more to the outside without making contact or sending Vettel on the green.