I haven't tested all of the cars, but here's how I understand it. In paranthesises is for manual clutchers:

Normal cars:

Upshift: Lift gas pedal. (clutch)

Downshift: blip if you like. (clutch)

GTR cars:

XRR and FXR:
Upshift: no further action required

Downshift: actually you should blip, but it seems to work fine if you don't

FZR, UFR and XFR:
Upshift: lift throttle (clutch)

Downshift: blip if you like (clutch)

Formulas:

Upshift: FBM: lift throttle, others: no further action required

Downshift: again, blipping would be more true to rL, but apparantly it seems to work fine without it. BF1 would probably blip all by itself irl, but I'm not sure

please feel free to correct anything you like.

I was actually not planning on chiming in here, but I can't help but getting really annoyed by this constant bickering about having to manually cut the throttle on upshifts. It is more realistic, frigging easy and almost impossible to misshift if done properly. I bet all formula bmw drivers do it in rL without feeling stupid at all. And no, I don't have a clutch pedal.

Also, since this has been brought up, on the big GTRs and on the FOX you don't need to cut, because those sequentials have ignition cut.

Geez, people get over it, just because you're used to use LFS in an unrealistic manner, doesn't mean that you shouldn't have to adjust now that it becomes more realistic. No matter what kind of lame excuses you think you've found.

And further more, we'll sooner or later get engine damage. Will you then still insist that LFS should do the driving for you, because you're too stubborn and lazy to use it properly?

rant over.

Just to make this clear: I'm not at all asking for autoblip, I would quite happily do this myself. Problem is, when trying, quite frequently downshifts won't work. Whereas when not blipping, downshifting is really no problem at all. So, I am finding it quite hard to operate the sequential (at least on the FBM) accurately, especially as it's not penalized to operate it "wrong".

Also, if most sequentials require clutch use on downshift, shouldn't LFS autoclutch just like it does with h-shifters?

And to understand this further: What exactly happens when you downshift a sequential without blipping and clutch use in rL? Does it change gear at all? Does it shift but unsettle the car violently? Or what happens?

edit @Stigpt: not talking about upshift at all. as far as I can see, this works just like it is supposed to in rL. It's the downshifting that worries me, as it seems it's not very realistic right now.

Last edited by Linsen, Tue 11 Dec 2007, 16:45.

Maybe you're not the only one who doesn't understand what I am asking, as hardly anybody replys.

I'll try again.

Here's what Johannes van Overbeek has to say about the 997 RSR he drives in ALMS:

"...smooth and reliable downshifts in the GT3 RSR require both a healthy throttle blip and use of the clutch pedal."

So they do in rL. By my expereinece in LFS smooth and reliable downshifts don't require a healthy throttle blip and use of the clutch pedal. Downshifting the FBM for me is much more reliable and smooth without blipping (or clutching which I don't do manually, but maybe the clutch should kick in automatically on down shifts?). Thus my question, do the sequentials in LFS work as they would in rL or are they easier to operate and thus not realistic?

I already asked this question in the test-patch thread, but it got repeatedly overlooked and there's so much other stuff going on there, that I decided to post here again, as I'd really be interested to find an answer to this:

I'm a little puzzled by how the sequential gear boxes work in LFS now. I thought many, if not most sequential gear boxes found in race cars needed clutch and throttle blip on downshift to get quick reliable and smooth gear changes. But apparantly they don't work like that in LFS. The way it is, you can easily down shift without blipping on the FBM or the GTRs and you don't need to clutch. Also, when auto clutching like I am doing, the clutch is not engaged on down shifting and it doesn't seem to cause any misadvantages to down shift clutch-less. In the FBM it's even easier to down shift without blipping, it seems, as it's very easy to get the timing wrong when trying to blip and as a result, you don't change gear.

Am I wrong in my (very limited) knowledge about sequentials? Do we only have types in LFS that don't need blipping and clutching on down shifting?

(sorry, if this a dumb question or if I have gotten something mixed up)

Quote from Bandit77 :

shifting using a "standard" wheel with "flappy paddles" resp. buttons to change gears now totally sucks.

now you have to push a button (clutch) and another one (gear) to shift... name ONE rl car where you have to do this.

Not sure if I'm missing something here, but what were you doing before the patch if you, apparantly, don't have a clutch paddle, yet you chose to manual clutch?

edit: danowat beat me easily by 2 minutes

Quote from SchneeFee :

noone is forced to use cockpit view. at least not yet.
The day cockpit view is the only view available i ll quit playing lfs.

Yoou should really try it, though, it's much more immersive.

(only in my opinion, of course)

So, anyone care to help me out with this (or maybe it's too OT and I should open an extra thread in general discussion?):

Quote from Linsen :

I'm a little puzzled by the sequentials, though. I thought most?/many?/all?/some? sequential gear boxes needed clutch and throttle blip on downshift, but apparantly they don't work like that in LFS. All I tried you could easily down shift without blipping and the clutch doesn't kick in either (I'm auto clutching). Am I wrong in my (very limited) knowledge about sequentials? Or do we only have types in LFS that don't need blipping and clutching?

(sorry, if this a dumb question or if I have gotten something mixed up)

I went from around 480°-540° to 720° only recently on my DFP, and the greatest benefit I can see is a much more natural feel. Having to turn your wheel almost as far as you would have to in real life just makes the experience so much more convincing, that I'm not going to go back. Even though it's much harder to catch a slide. But than again, it's imho easier to avoid the slide in the first place, which should be the goal anyway in racing.

As for the single seaters, this of course does not make much of a difference, but somehow it still feels better, I think. So steering set to 720° and wheel turn compensation at 1.00 is imho the top choice.

The bit about interiors sounds great

I'm a little puzzled by the sequentials, though. I thought most?/many?/all?/some? sequential gear boxes needed clutch and throttle blip on downshift, but apparantly they don't work like that in LFS. All I tried you could easily down shift without blipping and the clutch doesn't kick in either (I'm auto clutching). Am I wrong in my (very limited) knowledge about sequentials? Or do we only have types in LFS that don't need blipping and clutching?

(sorry, if this a dumb question or if I have gotten something mixed up)

Quote from ajp71 :

I'm rather alarmed at the reluctance of some people to the development of LFS, it has always been pretty clear that LFS is a simulation yet people don't want to have to lift their foot of the throttle pedal because it will damage their pedals or it's not fun. Likewise people are opposed to being able to damage their clutch or not have an unrealistic speed read out available?

I hope you were not directing this part to me, because in that case you completely misunderstood the intention of my post.

Quote from ajp71 :

Likewise I've found my downshifts were pretty horrendous, opening the throttle then trying to shift down, now you need to get the timing right.

Which I think is a good thing, but I noticed that you don't need to blip the throttle at all on downshifts -- haven't paid attention to the clutch temperature, though.

Quote from ajp71 :

I have a speed read out on the left of my display, I'd rather I didn't though, and I doubt the real car does either. To answer your question IRL you don't in a small single seater, because there's no need to make pitstops so no need to travel fast in the pitlane.

I noticed, but only after spectating another driver. It's just barely sufficient for me. I'm just glad I don't have a smaller display. And personally, I don't care if it's there IRL. I think it needs to stay, because there might be occasions when pitting is necessary in LFS.

Damn, downshifting in the FBM is hard. I already blipped the throttle even before the patch quite frequently, but now I realize that my timing must have been quite off most of the time.

Great patch!

btw: How do I know if I'm obeying the pit speed limit in the FBM? No proper tach, no speedo, no limiter...

Quote from Gnomie :

Thanks for the tip, I'll try them out! Any particular cars you tried?

I mainly tried the XFG (closest to my rL car) and, as opposed to your regular race setup, it's almost impossible to get the back stepping out. So quite like it should be in rL.

Simple one in green & white:

I tried Bob's road going setups last night and noticed that the dead-zone-like feel is almost entirely gone with those. So it obviously is a largely setup related issue. Although, I wonder if my rL steering wheel would feel the same if I ran an LFS race setup on my Clio.

I'm using a DFP and even though setting overall strength to 107% or something does make a little difference, there's still this limpish feel around centre. Nothing terrible, just not perfect and something I don't have with Niels' C6 in rfactor f.e.

I think the patch is not coming out today.


:weeping: :weeping: :weeping:

I don't want any canned vibrating effects and such, but I do think that there are some areas where LFS' ffb could be improved -- which might just come naturally with physics updates, but I don't know much about the technical side.

For me there are basically two areas where the ffb is not as good as I'd like it to be.

1. Somehow the steering doesn't seem to get heavier under load, f.e. braking, which it should as far as my rL driving experience tells me. Or maybe it does get heavier, but I don't notice it as much as I do in a real car. Not really sure.

2. I can't seem to get rid of the rather limp feeling around the centre. Steering feels very light and unresponsive for a few degrees around the centre, almost as if there was a deadzone, which I don't have set.

edit: that was to post #22, of course.

They even have video-proof on the site that the Celica "beats [a real] Ferrari F430, Porsche Boxter s, Mercedes CLK AMG and other sports cars".



(the F430 driver did seem to be quite a twat though, not letting the Celica by)

Thx.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Download my road going sets (see sig) and compare again.

Do those setups still work fine for S2X? (I think it says they're updated for U, but I don't remember whether we had any considerable changes since then).

Quote from evyytw133 :

Now have everything at 120% except weight. Which is quite even except for gearbox which I did to 120%(because I did it first and I didn't realise that I couldn't for the others). Stability now at 85% which is better, but 100% is cool. May try to get gearbox back down to a reasonable level of weight and try to even the weight out a bit more.

The Gear Box is definitely your killer. Just one part that's off compared to the others is enough to destroy your stability.

Quote from evyytw133 :

Oh yeah you have jumped up in leader board, how come?
Tom

I finally bought a Merchandising Company (should have done that a lot earlier :doh, which gives a boost in wealth.

Are really all your parts roughly the same in all areas?

This is how mine look f.e. and I've got 100% stability:

FW: 87/87/74/86
MO: 87/87/74/86
SP: 87/87/74/87
EC: 87/87/74/87
RW: 87/87/75/87

BR: 88/88/75/87
EL: 88/87/74/87
CO: 88/87/75/87
GB: 87/87/74/87

If yours look similar (just with higher percentages, of course) you should also have 100%.

What I find strange, though, is that you are so quick, despite your poor stability, Tom (don't know how fast you are, mad).

Maybe there are some flaws in Chris' system? Who knows...

Linsen

Quote from evyytw133 :

Just a question because I can't find it the GPManager forums. Do I still need to buy a chassis even though all my parts are better than McLaren now? I got the impression for the post that I don't have to, but I've never seen anything on GPManager saying that's what you can do.

Oh, man, are you saying you're using your own parts exclusively and they're all at 120%*? You've been wasting money :doh: Get rid of that MacLaren chassis altogether, you don't need it, and use only your own parts.

*) This also finally explains why you're so much faster than me.

Well, as far as I can tell, I should have everything that's relevant to race performance at a higher level than a non-contributor could have it. My chassis is at 87% all round (except for weight) and 100% stability. Tech dep. is 5*, manager is Pat Symmonds and staff is at 250, of course. Tech. dep. is also running at 150% by now. I've run a 200% all round engine for the last season and got the same this season. Both drivers are 5* all round. Car has been at 600kg for a while now. So I don't have a clue why I am so dreadfully slow. I mean, I could understand it if your chassis was at 120%, but since it's not, I was suspecting something wrong with my account or something. Especially since my pitting times had not improved for the last 3 or 4 seasons. They're just starting to come down since the beginning of this season. I already posted about this in the GPMP forum and even wrote Chris a personal message, but he's not replying. I'm really lost here.

Btw, this is not to belittle your performance, you're obviously doing a great job, it's just that my performance doesn't seem to be where it should be.

Regards,

Linsen