Quote from tristancliffe :

Whaddya reckon - sell the Reynard, buy Super Aguri for a few quid, and attempt to show Torro Rosso how it's done?

Kev can be my race stratagist (because of the GPManagerPro calculator he made). Shotglass the race engineer. All LFSForum Mods can be mechanics.

I'd need a second driver, so send your racing CVs to someone else.

Quote from xaotik :

"aguri" (αγγούρι) means "cucumber" in Greek. Super Cucumber

Perfect..

They've got a ready made team strip too http://file036a.bebo.com/3/lar ... 4356020496b611599769l.jpg

Quote from Shotglass :

im no expert on boeings but i think mach 1.5 is a little much for a 757

:rolleyes: Sheesh dude !, Haven't you been following this thread at all ? They used an SR71 Blackbird packed with explosives and made it look like a 757 passenger jet using holographic projectors....

And anyway, lay off our boy Tristan. Don't you realise he's Britain's best hope for Olympic gold this summer. If he can generate a leg speed of 50m/sec then we're expecting a sub 5second 100m dash, and a 10 minute Marathon. If he didn't have such puny little girly arms he'd be in the rowing team too...

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Stuff

All you've done is repost the exact same post i quoted when debunking it.

As said previously, nowhere in either document does it say NIST officially claims pancaking had now been discounted as an explanation for global collapse. I asked you to point out where in the official report it says that. I looked, and believe me i couldn't fined anything of the sort.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

I spent today reading this report actually, and Sam, thanks for teaching me to check every quote, apreciated thanks

The NIST report states that the extreme fires caused bending and flexing in the trusses which then failed and debunked the pancake theory, see the independent report.

You've also made this claim in several posts on page 13 of this thread. I'd appreciate it if you could point out where in the NIST report it states pancaking was not a contributing factor in it's collapsed. Plus, if you posted this 'independent report' i must have missed it. Can you tell me which post it's in please.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

However, what still interests me in this theory are both the firemans reports at the time that the fires were contained and under control and the photo's of people standing in the impact areas shortly before the building collapse that according to the report should have been blazing inferno's to account for the collapse.

Yeah, that firemans report is well known. However, there's a bit more to the tale than it first appears. The Fireman in question only reached the 78th floor of WTC2 and found only small fires, and this matches the NIST report. But the 78th floor was the lowest floor hit by the plane, and it was only hit by a wingtip. These pages explains it far better than i can

http://www.911myths.com/html/no_wtc2_inferno_.html
and here http://www.debunking911.com/fire.htm

And have a look at some of the photos of WTC2 http://www.debunking911.com/fire2.htm
here http://www.debunking911.com/fire3.htm
and here http://www.debunking911.com/fire4.htm
Bearing in mind the scale of the building (it was friggin huge) Honestly, would you call those fires small ?

And Yeah, we can agree to disagree if you want. But try to not let yourself get sucked into believing the first thing you read on a conspiracy website. I know how compelling the arguements can be sometimes, and sometimes the desire to believe can outweigh any rational observable facts. In that respect it's very similar to the "Does God Exist Thread" But, i've always thought it prudent to see both sides of the coin before making my call.

It's got to the point where the conspiracy theory has become a conspiracy theory in it's own right. And lets face it, we all love a good detective story.

Last edited by Mazz4200, Thu 1 May 2008, 15:29.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

With apologies to Tristan who no doubt knows better than the official US report ......

NIST and Underwriters Laboratories In August 2004, Underwriters Laboratories evaluated the Pancake Theory by testing models of the floor assemblies used in the WTC buildings. Despite all the previous expert testimony, the floor models did not collapse. NIST reported this in its October 2004 update, in a table of results that clearly showed that the floors did not fail and that, therefore, pancaking was not possible.14 NIST more succinctly stated this again in its June 2005 draft report, saying: "The results established that this type of assembly was capable of sustaining a large gravity load, without collapsing, for a substantial period of time relative to the duration of the fires in any given location on September 11th."15

[14] Table of results from Underwriters Laboratories August 2004 floor model tests, as presented by NIST in October 2004 (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/P6StandardFireTestsforWeb.pdf), 25.

[15] NIST, Final Report of the National Construction Safety Team on the Collapses of the World Trade Center Towers(Draft) (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1draft.pdf), 195.

This is the OFFICIAL US report.

Next theory please.

I've finally found the time to read those documents you linked to, and very interesting they are too.

I can't claim to understand everything i read. But i know for certain that the theory of "pancaking" isn't mentioned once in either document, infact they hardly mention the failure of the lower (undamaged) sections of the buildings at all. I also know for certain that your quoted sentence from the second document is taken completely out of context. All you've done is quote a line from part of their evaluation process of a huge on going scientific experiment, and completely avoided (or failed to understand) the summery of their findings; i.e

"The WTC towers likely would not have collapsed under the combined effects of aircraft impact damage and the extensive, multifloor fires if the thermal insulation had not been widely dislodged or had been only minimally dislodged by aircraft impact."

You've fallen into that old conspirators trap of only quoting something if it fits with your particular theory, and completely ignore anything and everything else that doesn't fit (including the main findings of the official report)

Go check it yourself. And to save you time having to wade through the whole 292 page document, go directly to Chapters 6 and 8 and read thoroughly.

Seriously Racer X, start checking stuff out for yourself before making such wild statements, and stop being so naive. Don't just believe the first thing you read on a conspiracy theory website. Check your sources, know your enemy, and stop being such a wally

Last edited by Mazz4200, Thu 1 May 2008, 05:20.

Have a read of this Hank. It may not answer all your questions, but it's an interesting insight none the less.

Edit: I've added another document, which although long goes into a lot of detail concerning the events at WTC on 9/11, but primarily revolves around claims made by a Dr Griffins criticism of the official NIST report. It's a very very interesting read.

Last edited by Mazz4200, Thu 1 May 2008, 03:23.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Why didn't they ever repeted that, surely the technology got more advancier since '69

Well, if you believe certain websites, then it's because NASA were told in no and uncertain terms to stay away from the moon by a group of extra terrestrials, who had a large mining complex on it

But if you believe NASA, then they didn't return because there was basically sod all there. And as Stang has said, the costs of getting there and back where insanely high they could no longer justify it, to simply pick up a few rocks for a museum.

Quote from smokinggun :

I've spent over a year looking into all angles on 9/11. There is the most convincing documentary just come out made by architects and engineers in America called 'How the Towers fell' see http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3118021782753292874 which covers all the ground necessary for the twin towers collapse to convince any open and clear minded person that we have all been sold a complete lie.

Wow, a whole year, i bet you'll know everything about everything now then !. During this year long research did you have a look to see who Richard Gage is, and if any of his claims can or have been debunked ?

And who the hell are you ? I'm guessing you're a regular, using a dummy account.

Last edited by Mazz4200, Wed 30 Apr 2008, 22:37.

Hmmm, this is getting interesting.

Apparently the EPA have been accused of covering up the true health risks during the rescue and clean up operations of 'Ground Zero'. So it does seem as though something odd was going on.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/environment.html

It's been really tricky to find any info on the net linking this stuff with 9/11. But i guess they were prepared to risk using large quantities of this dihydrexi-whatsit to mask something more sinister, maybe thermite ?.

I guess it's easier to explain away something that can already be found in our environment (albeit in relatively small quantities) than something that would stick out like a sore thumb. And i suppose the fact that dihydrogen monoxide is already in our atmosphere no one's putting to much effort into finding out why so much of it was used at ground zero. It is a fire retardant after all...got me thinking this has...

Last edited by Mazz4200, Wed 30 Apr 2008, 02:47.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Actually, even the History channel now say's that the US had prior notice ( at least 12 days ) of Pearl Harbour, please do some research before calling me a liar.
Why do you think the carriers left prior to the attack ?

If you can find my first post in this thread you'll see that i do believe 9/11 was a second Pearl Harbour (i.e they knew about it, and stood back and let it happen) But i do not believe it was a second Reichstag, They did not burn down their own parliament.

I've been looking into this dihexy-whateveritscalled-stuff. And apparently in small doses it can actually be very beneficial to the human body. So i guess that explains why the fireman where able to put in shifts of 36 hrs straight during the rescue mission. And it's reported they would get very very angry when told to take time off and rest. Which is similar to the effects of an athlete taking anabolic steroids. But obviously in large doses, as would have been used at WTC its a very different matter. Now i come to think of it, i do remember people in New York having skin disorders and many inhabitants suffering from stomach complaints, lung diseases and even cancer.

Yunno, looking at that site i posted above, it says if large quantities get into the atmosphere it can effect weather patterns, even hurricanes and tidal waves....i wonder....i just wonder if there's any link with this stuff and Hurricane Katrina ? or is that a leap to far ?

Edit: Yeah i guess you're right Stang, but yunno, something must be causing all this odd weather and global warming stuff, so why not chemical compounds ? But, in my defense it is late here, so i guess i'm open to any suggestion going....

Last edited by Mazz4200, Wed 30 Apr 2008, 01:19.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

There are more than enough reasons for this being an inside job, there's a great deal of evidence regarding who was running it, Norad being stood down, suspicious building collapse's, strange holes and unrepeatable flight pattens with the pentagon, cell phone call's ( impossible till 2006 ) and missing plane part's from flight 93.

:banghead: Over and over and over again. We really are wasting are time with you, arn't we.

http://video.google.com/videop ... 624447947169635420#27m39s If you can be bothered to watch. It's a Dutch film crew investigating many of the popular conspiracies. The English subtitles are hard to read, but you'll understand what they're saying. And at the end of the film they briefly mention the financial dealings and WTC, but unfortunately don't investigate to any real depth. But they raise a few points that i certainly was unaware of, which definitely require more investigation on my part.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

If there seem's to be a major coverup that leds to the invasion of two countries that have nothing to do with the attacks, ( most of the official hijackers were Saudi ) but who do have major oil reserves or oil pipelines, when stated US policy is to access these reserves, as well as a VP who has major oil connections, who's stated policy is to create a new Pearl Harbour to create change in the US to access these resources then there's a reason.

So you're claiming Pearl Harbour was an inside job now ? What about the Moon Landings, Chem Trails or the African Penis Thefts ?

However SamH just raised a very important point. I'd never heard of that stuff before, and it's damn nasty http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
I'd certainly like to know why this was never investigated in the official investigation...I mean, how dangerous would it be if something like that got into sewers and rivers.

Last edited by Mazz4200, Wed 30 Apr 2008, 00:31. Reason : grammar

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Bring me some experts or show me the link where experts comments on this, i'm all ears in hearing how this could be done by an airliner...

So just exactly how many times do i have to post these links in this thread before someone actually looks at and bothers to read them ? This'll be the third time by my reckoning...
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/pentagonattackpage2
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.co ... onflight77evidencesummary

The main landing gear and parts of an engine are in that picture, and they're both damn heavy pieces of metal. Don't forget this thing was traveling at 500mph+.

So what else do you think would have made it ? A bunker buster ? a cruise missile ? If a missile got that far, then surely it would have exploded in that small section between the tiers. So ;
1. where is the missile debris ?
2. how could a missile cause such a huge blast on the outer wall, go through it, completely obliterate the insides of three separate tiers, and them still 'pop out' of the final wall, was it a bunker buster with 4 separate stages of explosives in it ?
3. and why is there aircraft debris scattered on either side of the hole ?

But i guess if well over 100 eyewitness testimonies, along with loads of photo's of the wreckage aren't gonna sway you into thinking it was an United Airlines 757 that crashed into the building. Then there's obviously nothing i, nor anyone else, nor any website can say that'll make you change your mind.

Quick edit: Just found this http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf
It's too big to upload in attachments, but it's the NIST report on the buildings structure during the crash. (should make for some interesting reading, although i've not had time to read it myself,waiting for my new telly to arrive)

Last edited by Mazz4200, Tue 29 Apr 2008, 11:05.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/ ... c-witchcraft-cb1d00a.html

Quote :

Lynchings in Congo as penis theft panic hits capital

KINSHASA (Reuters) - Police in Congo have arrested 13 suspected sorcerers accused of using black magic to steal or shrink men's penises after a wave of panic and attempted lynchings triggered by the alleged witchcraft.

Reports of so-called penis snatching are not uncommon in West Africa, where belief in traditional religions and witchcraft remains widespread, and where ritual killings to obtain blood or body parts still occur.

Rumours of penis theft began circulating last week in Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of Congo's sprawling capital of some 8 million inhabitants. They quickly dominated radio call-in shows, with listeners advised to beware of fellow passengers in communal taxis wearing gold rings.

Purported victims, 14 of whom were also detained by police, claimed that sorcerers simply touched them to make their genitals shrink or disappear, in what some residents said was an attempt to extort cash with the promise of a cure.

"You just have to be accused of that, and people come after you. We've had a number of attempted lynchings. ... You see them covered in marks after being beaten," Kinshasa's police chief, Jean-Dieudonne Oleko, told Reuters on Tuesday.

Police arrested the accused sorcerers and their victims in an effort to avoid the sort of bloodshed seen in Ghana a decade ago, when 12 suspected penis snatchers were beaten to death by angry mobs. The 27 men have since been released.

"I'm tempted to say it's one huge joke," Oleko said.

"But when you try to tell the victims that their penises are still there, they tell you that it's become tiny or that they've become impotent. To that I tell them, 'How do you know if you haven't gone home and tried it'," he said.

Some Kinshasa residents accuse a separatist sect from nearby Bas-Congo province of being behind the witchcraft in revenge for a recent government crackdown on its members.

"It's real. Just yesterday here, there was a man who was a victim. We saw. What was left was tiny," said 29-year-old Alain Kalala, who sells phone credits near a Kinshasa police station.

Ermm....

Last edited by Mazz4200, Tue 29 Apr 2008, 07:48. Reason : Quoted full article for the lazy

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Whoa, Scheuerle won!

Scheuerle not ?


edit: How red is Shauns face when holding his helmet for the new girl

Last edited by Mazz4200, Tue 29 Apr 2008, 01:19.

Quote from The Moose :

I'm scared to tune in in case she doesn't live up to what I'm expecting

Yah, she's hot ! Think of Suzy Perry crossed with a sexy primary school teacher

Me's looking forward to the SRT's look at sim racing beachwear segment

Quote from SamH :

Firstly.. I agree, releasing the footage would give us a final and conclusive answer. However, NOT releasing the footage fuels the conspiracy theories - the perimeter fence, that keeps Americans talking about "IF" it happened, so they never reach the inner wall of "WHY" it happened.

Spot on

For those who can be bothered to do any investigation on the subject, heres the FBI's investigating officers report on the seized video footage of the cameras surrounding the Pentagon http://flight77.info/85videos.html.
And here's a post on a forum from someone who worked at the Pentagon for six years prior to the attack. http://www.bautforum.com/746514-post173.html

Also, lets remember, there is only one video clip of the first plane to hit the first WTC building in existence, regardless of the thousands of CCTV cameras in the city, or the many many thousands of tourists cameras that would have been rolling at the time. Just because an event hasn't been captured on tape doesn't mean it never happened. And lets not forget the over 100 eyewitness accounts of seeing a large passenger jet fly into the side of the building.

@Polyracer. The 'evidence' from the collapsed Twin Towers was moved to a secure location and was thoroughly investigated by NIST, check their website for a copy of the report. And lets be honest, they had to remove it to aid the search and rescue mission going on. Do you really expect them to section of an area to publicly display the remains so every Tom Dick and Harry can go have a look to satisfy themselves it wasn't a conspiracy ? Honestly, if your nextdoor neighbour murders his wife one night, do you think the police will leave the frontdoor wide open so anyone passing can go have a look, to make sure it wasn't some secret government plot to rid the world of nagging wives ?

The stock market activities were investigated thoroughly, and nothing unusual was found. Just because Loose Change says it was a bit iffy don't mean a thing. If it was unusual then it would have raised alarm bells at the time. The Financial Industries employ people with the sole intention of looking out for any odd behaviour within the stock market, as does the betting industry ! And besides, only a couple of million dollors made on these put options has yet to be claimed. Which on the stock market really is loose change, a trivial amount of money.

You ask about sniffer dogs being removed ? Truth is, WTC had a couple of weeks of high security after some tip-offs that something was going to happen, so extra security and extra sniffer dogs were brought in. But on the Thursday before the attacks this high security level was dropped, and the extra security was removed, leaving the normal levels of security- including the regular sniffer dogs- in place. (i.e they weren't completely removed from the site)

The question of odd maintenance ?. This has been claimed by only 2 individuals who worked in the towers. They both worked in the same tower, and unfortunately their stories actually contradict themselves. And no one, i.e not one of the other 10,000 plus employees of the towers has come forward to back up their claims. And anyway, if this was true, then that would only leave 4 whole days to rig two 1,000 foot towers for complete demolition, which would simply be an impossibly short timeframe to set it up to the levels of precision required (remember it was a top down collapse, NOT a bottom up collapse)

As far as "most Americans being content with the 'Official' whitewash". Again that's not entirely the case. A recent poll suggests that over 50% of the American population believe there was a conspiracy, and about 30% believe it was an inside job !. But, because of all the bullshit flowing around concerning the subject they simply can't get their act together and ask the right questions to the right people in the correct manner. All they can do is argue, gossip and bitch amongst themselves about the spurious if's, but's and how's of the subject, and completely avoid the WHY's (as Sam said above).


quick edit: that post must have taken 45mins to write , Sam and Stang have both posted in the meantime....

Last edited by Mazz4200, Mon 28 Apr 2008, 21:37.

Well Bladey, i'm sure you've heard the saying "A happy wife is a happy home "

So, I'd say, get the Wii and this Wii Fit thing (whatever it is :shrug And wait till GTA4 comes out on the PC.

Or, get one of the other consoles and offer to do the dishes for the next couple of years........and cut the grass.......and take the rubbish out.......and walk the dog......and do Emmys homework......and promise to give them both more 'pocket' money

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Flight 77's info is on the web but flight 93's seems unavailable, if you have it please post a link.

And flight 77's is unrepeatable by a Navy pilot with 20 years experience as a Navy pilot, including ' Top Gun ' instructing duties and 6000 hours on 757/767's.

But then I don't post any evidence do I ??

See post 184. - sigh

They're all available to me, but, they're coming down the wires at a stonking rate of 2.3kb's/sec and most of the files are huge. The only one i managed to get was the autopilot info from flights 93 and 77 (both in one document) i'll attach it to this post.

As for the Navy pilots(fortruth.com) i can't really question their credibility. But, the flight analysis of Flight 77 says the plane made the turn, over 100 eyewitness saw it skim the grass and hit the Pentagon, the debris found at the crashsite has been verified as being from Flight 77. The DNA samples found at the crashsite have been verified as those on the passenger list, and many other experts (both airline pilots and ATC) have claimed the maneuver was possible. As you know there are many many website with videos going into detail of how and why it was possible, go check em out for yourself.

An unqualified hijacking pilot hell bent on suicide wont be too worried about giving the passengers a comfy ride or taking the plane to the extremes of its design tolerances. Go take a look at the vids of the flight path, it's not as extreme as you might think.

So, as to why a Navy Pilot is saying it's an impossible maneuver i can't explain ?, Is he trying to sell a book or something ?

But, as i said above, this could go on forever. One person posting a link to a "Truthers" site, someone else posting a link to a "Debunkers" site. And i've had enough of it to be honest.

At the end of the day, i don't think anyone in this thread has said the Official Explanations are completely water tight. They're not, and they do lead to many many other questions. The main issue i have with all these fanciful conspiracy claims is, they do nothing but muddy the waters, and the legitimate questions that should be asked are simply being deluged by a torrent of bullshit. Which probably helps 'The Powers That Be' tbh, we're all to busy arguing amongst ourselves that no one can be bothered to stand up and fight anymore. All this arguing is doing is adding confusion which in turn leads to apathy.

Back in the late 80's early 90's Thatchers Government brought in the Poll Tax. Me and many other Lefty Student types were outraged, so we protested on-mass, and spent several hours being chased through the streets of London by coppers with big sticks, riot shields and huge police horses. And in time, the Government ditched the poll Tax (unfortunately a few years later they replaced it with a tax that actually cost more, but by that time a new wave of Lefty Students had emerged, who unfortunately didn't give a **** about anything, apparently Punk did die )

Point is, if all we do is sit on are arse's and do nothing but argue amongst ourselves, then perhaps we deserve to be shat on by those we democratically elect to be our Leaders. Perhaps it's time we stood up in unison and took action rather than just talk and whinge about it.....anyone up for a civil war ?....anyone got a rifle i could borrow ?...or a tank ?...or a one way ticket to Bali ?...

Last edited by Mazz4200, Sat 26 Apr 2008, 06:53. Reason : Thanks for pointing out my spelling mistake Xaotik :)

Quote from Racer X NZ :

So where's the black box details that can clear this up ?????

Sigh, i know i'm wasting my time, so this is the last i'll say on the matter.

Here is an NTSB list of some of the aircraft accidents it has investigated http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/A_Acc1.htm compare any one with the info found here in the analysis of Flight 93 autopilot info http://www.ntsb.gov/info/autopilot_aa77_ua93_study.pdf or, scroll down and have a look at the reports on all the planes involved on 9/11 http://www.ntsb.gov/info/foia_fri.htm (again, i can't be arsed to read them myself, but if you want the info, it's there)

The NTSB very very rarely release the flight recorder information let alone the flight deck voice recorder. Yes the info is made available, but usually not to the general public, it's simply not their policy to do so. I'm sure you can think of many good reasons for this.

But you know all the information you seek can be found on the net anyway. The real question is, are you willing to go find it, or as SamH has said many times in this thread already, are you so desperate to believe in every conspiracy theory going, that you simply choose to ignore all the debunking.

Last edited by Mazz4200, Sat 26 Apr 2008, 04:14.

http://www.911research.com/planes/evidence/passengers.html

That should answer the issue with the passengers lists.

Quote "these lists (that conspirators use) are not passenger manifests, but lists of victims, and hence include an implicit rationale for excluding alleged hijackers."

@Boris, to all intents and purposes the plane disintegrated. It hit the ground almost head on (90 degrees) and left a huge plane shaped crater in the ground Some debris including human remains were thrown clear in the impact (one of the engines was found about 1000 yards away, i think ?) but the black box and other debris was later found buried many feet below the surface of the crater (some as deep as 40ft down )

Again, there's so much stuff on the net about this, it's well worth checking out.

Last edited by Mazz4200, Sat 26 Apr 2008, 02:35.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Here's the designer of the WTC stating that it was designed to take multiple impacts from similar sized aircraft.

After he was told to shut up the story changed and it was never designed to take an aircraft strike.

Make of that what you like..............

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/338148/wtc_designer_speaks/

Well thats all very good, however....how old do you reckon that guy is ? late 30's mid 40's ? The Twin Towers were designed in the 1960's and completed in the 70's, so Is this guy the Dougie Hauser of the architects industry ?

Basically, he's far to young to be THE designer.

But, this is simply going down the road mentioned in my previous posts, the conspirators say one thing, the debunkers debunk it, the conspirators debunk the debunkers and so on and so on.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

That's a good vid, but no one's here answering the simple questions, what's with that terrorists passports and documents found intact on the street, what's with the Pentagon, where's the plane, why's there no video material, what's with that 5 frame video showing just the blast, what's with building 7, why do the 9/11 comision guys act like pure amateurs and why their book doesn't give answers to many many questions. Maybe WTC's DID collapse just by plain strike and flames, but who was flying them, who are the passengers on those planes, are their names ever reveiled, have their families confirmed that they were on those flights?

Lol, i'm not sure how you managed it, but i'm sure you've put more questions in that post than the number of words

As far as the Pentagon issue is concerned, i posted a couple of websites about this earlier in the thread (i'll edit this post when i find them)

As to the remote controlled planes, well, yeah it's possible, but then the question of what do you do with the legitimate passengers comes up (yes they were all real passengers who had families and loved ones, and yes they did make numerous phone calls from the planes) Either they're ALL part of the plot and are now living on a desert island somewhere in the lap of luxury or they're at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean. However, passenger DNA samples WHERE found at both the Pentagon and the crash site of Flight 93, and they DID correspond with the passenger lists of those two planes. Obviously it would be next to impossible to find any DNA samples from the passengers in the planes that hit the Twin Towers. But i'm sure there are website out there explaining why the planes couldn't have been remote control (but i'll let you go find them, i can't be bothered to be honest )

I'll go find those links mentioned earlier

Ok, have a good long look at these two sites, + follow all the linked sites within them. You'll find many eyewitness testamony of what exactly occurred there, including the Chief Fire Marshall at the Pentagon stating how he found charred remains of one of the passengers still strapped into one of the seats.
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.co ... onflight77evidencesummary
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/pentagonattackpage2

P.S Bloody hell guys, this thread suddenly shot into life, it's getting hard to keep track of everything when a dozen posts suddenly appear when i'm writting only one of mine

Last edited by Mazz4200, Sat 26 Apr 2008, 02:16.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

The buildings were designed to take a 707 impact, similar weight and fuel, they clearly failed. If so, then why ????

No, they didn't included burning fuel into the equation. Here's a documentary explaining how it couldn't have been a demolition job. It includes an interview with the guy who designed the Towers http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2873871255585611926

As to the question of the siesmic spikes you mentioned about 17 pages ago, here's a counter claim to that too http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/demolition/seismic.html

I could go on posting site after site, debunking claim after debunking claim, but, if you want to remain impartial as i mentioned in my above post, then go check-out all the debunking sites that counter all your conspiracy sites yourself.

Yunno, after the "God Thread" it's becoming very clear to me that the religion of choice for the 21st century ain't really Christianity or Islam, it's Conspiracy Theory and Global Warming.....

Anyone think the Moon Landings were faked ? or, are we really are being visited by little green men from Mars, and if so, just exactly what role did they play in 9/11 ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcxo_UntbYA

Quote from Racer X NZ :

My point regarding the molten metal still stands, can anyone come up with an explanation as to why there was molten metal for that period of time

A 20 sec's google finds these sites
http://www.checktheevidence.co ... w&id=91&Itemid=60
http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm
http://911researchers.com/node/147
http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

Can't be arsed to read em myself tbh, but, thing is, with every single theory put forward by conspiratorialists, there are always just as many debunking claims made highlighting the various errors in these theories. And the consipratorialists don't like it, so they try to debunk the debunkers, then the debunkers retaliate and try to debunk the debunkers who debunked their debunkings (,,:schwitzand so it goes on and on and on. And all you end up with is opposing groups of people endlessly arguing with each other and achieving absolutely nothing.

With regards to those in here looking for answers, i'd suggest, don't go into this with any pre-conceived ideas. Research both sides of the arguement as thoroughly as you can before making your decision on what you believe. Don't just take one persons opinion as gospel truth, especially not someone who wants to sell you a book or a DVD, something that so many of these "Truthers" seem to be doing these days.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Exactly my thoughts... Don't get me wrong, there's something really iffy with all this, especially the Pentagon part,

Have a look at the links posted by Sam on the previous page, and these two
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.co ... onflight77evidencesummary
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/pentagonattackpage2

Quote from Boris Lozac :

but why would they have to bomb the WTC's, as if planes hitting them wasn't spectactular enough?

An interesting point you raise.

Why would they attack the Pentagon and whatever target they had in mind with Flight 93 ? Isn't it enough that two terrorist planes flew into the World Trade Towers to give them enough emotional justification in the eyes of the American public to wage war on this alleged "Axis of Evil" ? (Thats not necessarily a question aimed at you Boris, rather those in this thread trying to push this 'inside job' conspiracy theory)

Last edited by Mazz4200, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 22:42.

Quote from chanoman315 :

ehrm... MM2, London and San Francisco.

Yeah, just checked.

Paris and Washington were in Midtown Madness 3 on the Xbox, so, i guess i'm not as old as i thought

Errmm, you'll have to jog my memory. Midtown Madness 2, the original Xbox ? Paris and Washington ? bit of a crazy game, but fun.

If so, then yeah i was on Xbox Live all the time, although mainly with PGR 2 (think it was version 2 anyway) Then moved to Forza motorsports. Would meet up with a regular bunch of guys on there a few years back, we even formed a team. But i can't for the life of me remember the team name, or my Xbox Live id

Quote from Racer X NZ :

How about the theory that it was bottom up, there were numerous reports of explosions etc just before it fell. They've found traces of thermite on the miniscule amounts of steel that wasn't removed ( without permitting any testing ! ). The seismic evidence points to major demolition charges going off just milliseconds before it collapsed and film footage shows the central pillor going first.

From what I have learned the main supports in the basement were taken out with SADDAMs ( google it ! ), then every second level from the top down were taken out with thermite cutting charges. If you study footage of the collapse you can see these going off.
The other interesting thing is if you do the research there was even opportunity to place the charges 6 months prior to 911.
Also, the company charged with the cleanup are called Controlled Demolition.

About a year ago i was really into all this 9/11 conspiracy stuff, and spent many months researching it all. At first i soaked up all the "Truthers" side of things, and believed a lot of them. But then thought it would be wise to research all the "Debunkers" claims too.

Whilst there are still many many unanswered and unexplained events both before, during and after the events of 9/11, i simply don't buy the vast majority of 9/11 conspiracy claims. Unfortunately i forget the vast majority of the facts and figures supporting the debunkers so i can't wax lyrical on the various reasons against the controlled demolitions theory for example.

There's plenty of info out there, so please don't simply take sides because it fits with your own personal opinion of "The American Way" Do your own research, get both sides of the argument and then hopefully make the right choice. Collate and then evaluate, don't just postulate and then propagate. (yeah ok that little rhyme doesn't actually say anything, but at the time of writing i thought it sounded cool :tilt

Do your own research and don't just take everyones word as gospel truth, least of all in here.

Last edited by Mazz4200, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 02:49. Reason : great spelling there batman....