Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Looks like no sleep for me

Someone said today they have contacts with an engineer at Red Bull, they have messangers with diffuser shaped packages on a plane to Melbourne as we speak We'll see i suppose. McLaren have gone for the double decker diffuser too aparently.

Some awesome footage on BBC, camera angles are much better, especially on entry to T1 yu can see the ass kick out a little

Sleep is for wimps!!

The broadcast isnt BBCs, though i noticed in first practice they kinda sounded like they were taking credit for it, but they were talking about the finished product rather than the track pictures, those will be an aussie outfit incl director, which is why the Aus GP always finds Webber, and likewise every other venue that has a homer racing.

Quote from deggis :

BBC stream works with a proxy. Only need to use the proxy until the video starts to play, so the usual slowness of proxies doesn't matter.

Pretty damn good quality - 800 kbps and H.264. I actually feel bad wasting Brits' tv license money.

You can share mine, now i just need someone to do the same for me with yankiedoodle tv shows, cos i watch more dl'd shows then broadcast.


Heres my moan about everything...
Still dispise the new cars, to look at them it looks like the engineers are incompetent, theres nothing aesthetically pleasing about them, and the front/rear wing ratio makes things look even worse.

Im not a fan of change for changes sake, fortunately a lot f the changes do seem to make sense, but i dont like the sudden nature of how its been done, especially with the strict lack of testing to go with it. Its basically Scrapheap Challenge on an international level. They've had a couple of months to make something, they've no idea how it'll perform, and basically since Feb all they've been able to do is make some minor changes and slap some paint on there.
Everything they've ever achieved in the past is pretty much worthless today. In 2-3 seasons time, everything will be back to normal, if not midway through this season, it just seems to be a lucky dip, see who guessed the best design. Without proper testing, whether its track or wind tunnel, luck is a factor, maybe only small, but more than it should be IMO.
There seems to be little merit, previous seasons have seen teams make improvements and minor changes, sometimes with success, sometimes not, but the whole wipe the slate clean... to me it says everything you've worked hard to acheive in the past is now worth nothing.

I just hope its all worth it when the lights go out and the racing starts.


oh, and surely im not the only one who (yet again!) thinks the tyre markings are near enough useless? The TV doesnt pick it up unless its a close side-shot, the fact that its a skinny line doesnt help. It needs to be a solid band of colour, and possibly a more vibrant green.
Sometimes you can see it clear as day, but if you watch a few cars and just try to look for who's on what tyre (without looking on the F1 timing app , took me a while to figure out what the red/white numbers meant). Was the same in Fuji when they had the green stripe, the glossy surface and lighting just made it hard to tell if it was there or not.

Last edited by PaulC2K, Fri 27 Mar 2009, 06:11.

Over the course of the current season, i've decided to try my hand at video creation/editing for the series, originally with the intention of putting together an end of season review, but it quickly became apparent to get all 14 races from 7 rounds into 1 video would either mean cutting a whole lot of action or it'd be a loooong video.

My aim is to try and get videos out within 4 days of the round taking place, this wont happen straight away because i only decided to change my plans about a week ago, when i hadnt needed to release anything for quite some time, allowing me to leave intro's & credits to later on, so its created a bit of a backlog which illness which had conflicts with a seperate medical condition i have, and it created a real situation for a moment, but everything is now settled and not as bad as it seemed at one point.

There are currently 3 videos, Round 1 & 2 reviews, and Round 1's pole lap (round 2 & 3 will come later on, along with an updated round 1).

Videos
Round 1 Review - Streaming Download
Round 2 Review - Streaming Download
Round 3 Review - Streaming Download
Round 4 Review - Streaming Download
Round 5 Review - expected by 29th April
Round 6 Review - expected by 13th May
Round 7 Review - expected by 27th May

Feel free to head to the website and check them out, they can be streamed through the website or a higher quality version can be downloaded for a slightly higher download (usually 30mb vs 45mb for higher resolution, better quality & 24p).

Last edited by PaulC2K, Thu 9 Apr 2009, 19:34.

Over the course of the current season, i've decided to try my hand at video creation/editing for the series, originally with the intention of putting together an end of season review, but it quickly became apparent to get all 14 races from 7 rounds into 1 video would either mean cutting a whole lot of action or it'd be a loooong video.

My aim is to try and get videos out within 4 days of the round taking place, this wont happen straight away because i only decided to change my plans about a week ago, when i hadnt needed to release anything for quite some time, allowing me to leave intro's & credits to later on, so its created a bit of a backlog which illness which had conflicts with a seperate medical condition i have, and it created a real situation for a moment, but everything is now settled and not as bad as it seemed at one point.

There are currently 3 videos, Round 1 & 2 reviews, and Round 1's pole lap (round 2 & 3 will come later on, along with an updated round 1).

Videos
Round 1 Review - Streaming Download
Round 2 Review - Streaming Download
Round 3 Review - expected before 24/3


Feel free to head to the website and check them out, they can be streamed through the website or a higher quality version can be downloaded for a slightly higher download (usually 30mb vs 45mb for higher resolution, better quality & 24p).

Last edited by PaulC2K, Sat 21 Mar 2009, 09:38.

Uploaded a couple of the videos yesterday, i've had some fairly serious health issues crop up which turned out to be misleading test results to my relief a few hours ago, so havent been on top of a few things as much as i'd hoped to.

http://www.lfsproseries.net/downloads/video.php

For the file formats, i went with...
Streamed media: FLV, 700k/s, 64k/s audio, 15fps (640x426, due to layout width limitations)
Downloadable media: H264/MP4, Target 1Mb, Max 2Mb, 96/32khz audio, 24fps at 740x480.

Hope that helps someone in the future.

I've seen VLC will play the mp4, and then oddly crash the app, not sure if thats my VLC playing up, my vid file, or what.
The FLV's im wondering if to go with lower resolution, purely because its 1/4 smaller than the download and doesnt come close to the quality, the web version is better though because i know people will at least hit play and give it a try, whether they'd download a 50mb vid without knowing what to expect... dunno.

Anyway, those are my 3 videos, my first steps into video editing since first giving it a whirl less than 2 months ago.

surely the 'days left to next patch' wouldnt be a textbox, it'd be hard coded in as ∞³, right?
cos all those could be done tomorrow, but couldnt be released until ∞³ due to the laws of scavier, which state while something will be done for date x, you'll really only get it on date ∞³.
sounds like rubbish someones just made up to attempt to be funny, but tis true, and a Thursday iirc.


oh, and as not to look like its going OT...
Im hoping to post a couple of vids tomorrow, after being ill over Fri-Mon/Tues and not getting much done

Quote from X-Ter :

Paul, you're so defensive/aggressive about this, that I'm beginning to think that you fear that R2P will at one point or another draw attention away from that league you have linked in your signature.
Typically, your wrong, im just sick and tired of asking questions and having an idiot skate round the answers without giving it.

Am I right in assuming that you think that particular league is doing a better job than R2P ever will?
Your wrong, and being a condesending prick too.

You asked again...
WRONG
...and again...
WRONG
...why I think R2P on is great...
WRONG! Not once did I ask why you thought it was great, i continuously asked you to say why we should give a damn. You always decided to ANSWER the question as why YOU thought it was great, but that wasnt the question, as i keep telling you!

...and I've answered many times in previous posts, but you act like you don't read them.
Because your a moron and dont answer the question asked, and when the question is asked again, you still answer a different question!

In fact, you act like you hold a personal grudge against me, which I find strange.
Wrong, im just fed up of having you as the moron who's attempting to explain why R2P is supposed to be something we give a hoot about.

Well, one last time (The first time infact). Here are a few (just a few)(2 half reason) of the things that makes R2P a better place than most (but same as many).

• Officially santioned by NASA. That means taking the first step from being a geeky hobby, to becoming a proper sport (as I've stated in previous posts). That is a very good thing.
  Maybe one day, currently offers us nothing different.
  
• Live web TV broadcasts of selected races. I know others do this as well, but this is broadcasted from the biggest league site there is. That is a very good thing.
  F*ck me, he's found half a reason!! if im racing, im not watching myself on a webcast!
  
• R2P is very often written about in one particular magazine, namely AutoSimSport. The news about LFS making it to R2P is good news and will be covered by that magazine and most probably on other news related sites as well. That is a very good thing.
  Think i heard of ASS a while back, looked ameturish and dull, maybe its changed but havent had a reason to look. If ASS needs R2P to make LFS worthwhile to report about it, then that does explain the TLA! Possibly #2, basically a half reason.
  
• All the races, regardless of class or type, is marshaled in real time to ensure good clean racing for everyone. In my experience (and trust me, I'm no newbie to this, and I've seen my fair share of admins, good and bad, over the years), the admins at R2P are top notch and takes their job seriously. That is a very good thing.
  I doubt theres a series which is run which doesnt have someone watching over the races, if there are events out there in the sim racing community which arent admin'd then thats fairly poor, *i* dont know of any in LFS.
  
• Every result, every record, every lap of every race of every series is stored and can be looked up at any time. Think of it as an automated log of all that has passed. It's kept and it's organized and you don't have to worry about it, it just happens. That is a very good thing.
  I'd say at least 80-90 of ALL lfs events can be found on the spdo event site, all provided by someones free time, without handouts, just their passion for LFS. Thats what communities are built on round here. Isnt something that makes it special though.
  
• Trough R2P, LFS is getting extra attention, for free. It suddenly has a chance to attract new people but just being visible at one more, very high profile place on the inter tube. That is a very good thing.
  Doesnt influence a racer, like half the stuff you've repeating, and the official guy harped on about, yes it might be good for LFS, but its not something i asked about is it.
  
• Everything is linked together in a way that I think should appeal to the average LFS:er (you know how the forum and LFS World and the Sim itself is joined together as one big entity). Your race results, your pre and post races notes, your blog and your average forum posts etc, all work together, seamlessly. Everything is right there, only one or two clicks away, and you could actually run an entire team and career from R2P. That is a very good thing.
  Nice, but again... doesnt influence the racer in any way.
  

Now, you ask for money to be won, without having to pay an entry fee, just like in the world of FiA. Well guess again. Entry fees are a reality and I have yet to hear about a real world event where you can just show up in a car and win money without opening the wallet first. If you think that's how stuff are run under the FiA flag, then guess again. Every real world race, be it organized by FiA, SCCA, NASA or NASCAR, requires an entry fee to be payed, and the money you win (if you win) usually doesn't cover much of the racing budget. That's why there's a constant hunt for sponsors to pick up the bill.
Yes, well done, i understand all that, but that would be what would make R2P significant, it'd perhaps excuse the arrogant 'We have arrived' post. But its not, its nothing different for an LFS racer than we already have, except being able to watch yourself on a web stream while your driving and being able to read about R2P in the ASS mag.

You refer to anyone who actually likes the idea of LFS at R2P as "trolls", which comes trough as hostile to say the least.
What do you call someone who has ZERO interest in this community, but suddenly appears here only to promote their own interests? Dont like the terminology, go moan to the WWW! I'll try to refer to you as the R2P spammer's in future if thats better?

You claim that people "whine" when you are the one whining like a toddler who just lost is comfort blanket.
I used the term 'Whine' to describe a WHINING MORON who was complaining about the MULTIPLE people who'd asked the same damn thing and were also being ignored by the same WHINING MORON.
Your calling me a toddler because of your failing to understand what myself and also other people are asking. wow
I would take a deep breath and go at this in another fashion, cause right now you come across as an immature kid who is afraid to let in anything new, and that's annoying and then some.
I think at this point, your ability to grasp reality is pretty much at question, so im not really to bothered about what you think. Or maybe your right, im just afraid of something new! perhaps i cry myself to sleep worrying about all these new things too?

So... after 48 posts, and being asked a dozen times within that, and being given the answer to many a question but the one being asked, we have an answer folks!

This is the list of things that R2P offers, which most dont, but a fair few have for a few years now.
1) Being able to watch yourself racing while your racing.
2) Possibly being able to read your name in a web mag.

Thats what all the fuss was about in you already play LFS and are wondering if theres anything new and intresting, which warrants the fuss and BS being poured in this thread.
But as PMD said, make sure you pay the $170USD, cos otherwise you wont get a place anyway and all your practicing will be worthless.

Now, who do i pay???

hmmm,
1) I used the term 'Fanboy' to describe someone who's only interest is in LFS, not a multitude of games with favouritism being based on which is the most recent.
2) I used the term to describe myself, so i wasnt really using it to offend myself or imply something unkind, as i'd be insulting myself (im happy to do that but wasnt in this case :razz.

If R2P, in terms of what it offers the existing LFS playing community, offers nothing but what we have already, then thats fine. But it does kinda make all the R2P love-in between the R2P trolls who've come here simply to spam us with their self importance, rather needless.
I cant speak for others, but im not particularly impressed by things that make no difference to me, short or long term, and taking part in a series which seems to have its main selling points as being that they run leagues for a dozen other sims, it just doesnt really impress me. It doesnt make it bad, but it doesnt warrent a song and a dance about it.


Im also just sitting down and going through that old thread, its just been recommended to me, a back-history of R2P and its organiser, apparently it makes interesting reading.

Quote from jbirdaspec :

Paul,

I fail to see your problem here.

My problem is, people so arrogant that they assume people know the answers already, and rather than answer the fecking questions instead decide to repeat crap and resort to answers that make sod all difference to anyone already here.

I mean, I asked for a straight up, no BS reason why this news was supposedly good. All we'd got was talk of stuff that LFS has done for years without any song n dance, then a speach of how LFS will be better now they're here.
No bloody explanation as to how thats actually the case.

Im not saying LFS cant be better by having more of the same either, but if whats being offered is no different, then thats the answer. If LFS is better because of something they bring which adds to some aspect then they've yet to say what it is. They've *possibly* hinted at it, but they sure as hell havent said something that makes me understand why it deserves any fuss so far.
From what i can gather, the loyal 'LFS Fanboy' folks dont gain anything really, its the people who'll float from one game to another week to week who now can include LFS in their long list of games they barely play. As a 'LFS Fanboy' why should i be excited other sims gamers might play LFS a couple of hours a week, before going back to 3-4 other games, hardly going to change LFS is it.
Maybe some licenses will be sold, thats great for the Devs. Though if these people are really sim racers, is someone going to tell me they've never heard of LFS and only through R2P will they then try the demo and buy it? Im saying the chances are slim, at best.

What i want to know is, what EXACTLY does R2P offer someone like me and a lot of the LFS community, who couldnt give a damn about other sims, how other non-LFSers might buy LFS, or anything that doesnt really impact upon them... what it offers us thats makes it worth taking any notice in this R2P's existance as it stands.

I understand, maybe asking twice wasnt enough? Maybe others not seeing what was so special before me wasnt a clue either?

Quote from X-Ter :

Nothing new? Ok so how about this one? Race2Play is sanctioned by a real world body, NASA (National Auto Sport Association). Is there any other league that that does this for LFS (or for any Sim)? I don't think so. Race2Play offers support for just about all the Sims on the market, side by side. Is there any other place that does this? Nope, not really. Race2Play offers all kinds of racing using those Sims. Touring Car, Sports Car, Open Wheel, Stock Car and Off Road. Is there any other site that does this with any real success? Perhaps a few, but not to the extent that we see here.

Don't you get it. Race2Play is the biggest organizer of Sim Racing in the world, and having LFS support at that place will most probably prove to be a good thing, hence you should embrace it rather than piss on it and say "We've had this for years". You haven't, simple as that. What you have had is leagues with varying levels of professionalism (no I'm not saying all previous leagues have been bad in any way), but you have never seen this kind of determination to make Sim Racing a real sport.

And again... If it's about the money, why not consider creating a free account and become a guest member? It's really your choice. I chose to pay up, you may chose not to, simple as that, and service remains the same. But don't bitch and moan about it when you're last on the entry list and you find that one hour before race start, a paying member knocks you off the list and all your practice is for nothing.

But that still doesnt say why it actually matters.

I officially sanction LFS... so? What is this NASA going to do that makes it a better sim, makes the community better, makes events better, anything? Thats what im asking ffs.
I've asked twice already, what R2P are going to bring to LFS thats such good news, and all you've done is defend them and answered with nothing that doesnt exist in the community already.
If the FIA came into LFS, and all they were going to do was offer paying member preferencial treatment, and the assurance of someone watching the races they've organised, then they'd get the same response from me. So fecking what!?

Now, if the FIA said they'd get LFS on tv, magazines, and there was money to be won (for free entry) all paid for by their sponsors and stuff, then thats great, its bringing something new to LFS which gives its community something, as well as expanding the audience to new markets.
Some group called R2P who say they'll do what everyone else do, and have someone backing them who so far we havent been told why that makes a jot of difference to anyone who'd be involved in an R2P event, then i fail to see why we need a 'LFS has arrived now we are here' post which makes no attempt to say how they're going to make things better for people already in this community, and why we should be excited.


Now, ive never heard of R2P, and having looked at their site for a few minutes, its shockingly average and doesnt give the impression of any importance, they've had 1 person come on here telling us its a great day now they're here, then it turns out they want money to show you favouritism, what you've said about them says they offer nothing to the LFS community that isnt already done in other leagues, and then low and behold some official R2P bod comes on with an oscar acceptance speach basking in the limelight that all is not lost now R2P is here, welcome to the future of sim racing.... type post.
WTF else am i supposed to expect? Then, rather than explain why this is a good thing for the LFS community thats already here, im just given reasons why its good for LFS because some people who play other sims might like LFS now. Well thats great for them, but asside from getting more flakey racers which we have plenty of, who play a different game each day of the week, that doesnt offer anything to someone who's already aware of LFS.



Its also worth pointing out, simply through posts on this thread, you've had FIVE people say it looks interesting.
TWO of those are R2P trolls, ONE was an R2P official telling us that we're better off for them being here, but oddly not a reason why.
Im not even sure where to place 'Jay' cos he's sounding either he's another troll or he knows more about R2P than anyone has bothered to say in this 'R2P are here, yey' thread, which shows only people who know WTF any of this means can see maybe its a good idea, the rest DONT HAVE A CLUE COS YOUR NOT SAYING ANYTHING HELPFUL!
Shall we count the number of people who've said something negative or questioning exactly whats the fuss?? Its significantly higher, because nobody know wtf'ing fuss is about cos your too busy telling us how its great for non-LFS's and now how a real racing assoc is big news, but not what impact that has for anyone.

If R2P is the best org the racing sim world has to offer, then the racing sim world is dead! The people trying to impose its self importance are too busy trying to sound important than bother to explain what makes them special, or theres nothing special to explain, and nobody is any the wiser for this fantastic news.

So far, we've been told nothing about how its better for people already in LFS, what any of it matters. Maybe having NASA means lfs drivers could get a RL drive, but your not saying anything about why we should give a hoot that they have some probably worthless seal of approval (in terms of what it brings). Unless you tell us why, were not going to come to the conclusion you guys seem to expect us to.

If you want people to understand why R2P is good, make a bloody effort to say why, dont make a stupid 'great news' OP, and whine when people are critical about what they see, then have some R2P suit waltz in spout more unhelpful nonsense about how wonderful they are, and make sod all effort to say why! And dont bloody moan when >1/3 of the people who've commented come to the same conclusion i have, while you make no effort to answer the real questions and explain why your so wonderful and why we should care less about this.
If you dont care if we've no idea, why post this at all
If you do care, STFU with the BS and this impression that R2P is so wonderful everyone should already know, and start fcking telling people so maybe they'll understand. Is it really that hard to understand??

Well done for conveniently skipping past the things i highlighted a second time, and instead repeating what makes R2P ok for other sims, but doesnt give the LFS community nothing new at all.
Its almost like you cant think of a reason (an unbias one!) why people would consider R2P events over any of the many leagues/events currently running who dont want to profit from it.

When R2P offer something this community hasnt been offering for a good 5 years, let me know, until then save the 'have no fear, R2P is here' type posts cos otherwise its pretty pathetic unless theres something that is actually special about you.
So congrats, now we can pay for the same services we've had for free for years, its just what the community needed, thank you R2P thats great news!

Quote from X-Ter :

Yes, I do think it is fantastic news, and for some good reason too. First of all, it means LFS gets (yet) another platform where it can grow and attract attention. Second of all, it happens in a place where clean and fair racing are two major cornerstones. Every race is monitored in real time by server admins and marshals and that is a rare thing if you ask me. I've been in my fair share of leagues over the years and I've also run a few of my own, for various Sims, and I know that clean racing is hard to come by. Race2Play has this and much more.

LFS will be raced side by side with all the other Sims (iRacing excluded of course) on equal terms and with equal support, and I have a hard time seeing how this could be a bad thing. It might even be so that someone who have never even given LFS a moments thought before, suddenly takes a moment and try out the demo and end up with a license. Fact is that Race2Play is one of few communities I've been to that is not entirely made up by die hard fanboys. I see people go from ARCA to RBR to GTR Evo to rFactor etc. all the time. In my not so humble opinion, that is a rare treat.

I think it's sad that some of you seems to think it's bad to have LFS on R2P. It's even more sad that some community members almost come trough as hostile in the matter, and I wonder what's wrong with some of you people. Why so negative? Why so hostile? Why on earth so defensive as soon as something new comes by?

1) I never said it was a bad thing, you presumed that wrongly. We want to know whats special about this that deserves all the BS that its taken THREE people to come here and spread the wonderment that is R2P... but have conveniently skipped out whats so special about it that we should have reason to get excited.... still have really, odd

2) I asked you to highlight what was so special about it, because you'd said nowt worthwhile, the R2P troll gave an oscar acceptance speech which conveniently mentions nothing we gain as a community for it being there, and this 2nd troll Phillips who does 1-2 line posts about R2P isnt here for any other reason than to spread more R2P crap, he's not here to add to the community, just to spam in it.
Hardly fills you with confidence when 2 of the 3 people who seems to be harping on about it only seem to be here to spam the community, while the 3rd seems happy to defend and try and push something that offers this community nothing (the subscription) all the while trying to suggest he's not involved, but quite clearly 'not on the payroll' was as close to 'no association' you could get without lying.

4) Admined servers isnt anything special, its kinda expected in general.

5) Being associated with other sims is nice enough, but i doubt many of them will suddenly decide to start playing LFS simply because R2P has started organising a couple of races there. I mean, LFS isnt some oscure little game nobody has heard of in the sim racing genre, and as thats the area R2P targets its hardly giving LFS a new audience.

6) People coming along saying 'we want your money to do something you can already get done for free, just as well, by people just as experienced, but have a history you know of and it means something' doesnt go down well in the LFS community, and R2P wanting money for something the LFS community has managed to do for over 5 years out of community generosity, rather than profit they can make off the back of people, is why you'd get a "hostile" reception.... That and the person protesting their impartiality while deepthroating R2P come up with pathetic 'which is better' scenarios where iR actually looks the better option to waste money on.

It makes little difference if theres a free option, R2P is there for its own profit, not for the good of the sim racing world, and in LFS thats something which is frowned upon unless theres a bloody good reason for it... and R2P doesnt have anything like a half-decent reason to warrant $5 a year from the LFS community.


So basically, to sumerise why we should get excited:
R2P is going to spread the word to the sim racing to the people so interested in sim racing but oddly enough who havent heard of LFS in the last 6 years its been around. Its going to have adminned events, and its going to have drivers in cars, on tracks. If you pay them a stupid amount of money, they'll show you some favoritism!! YEY.

I think a few people are kinda oversighting on the subscription side of things, it not a fixed requirement, and the fact that it doesnt offer the LFS community anything new doesnt mean its evil or such, it just means theres zero point to any member of the LFS community buying a license if thats all they play.
No, there isnt anything special the subscription offers, which is why nobody in their right mind will buy one, but maybe for the other sims its value for money, so thats why its there.
Whether 'R2P' offers ANYTHING which should make anyone in the community take notice, like its a wonder we ever lasted this long without them... I think we can all figure out for ourselves. Im sure its not a load of crap, but i fail to see something that makes it stand out from the vast number of existing FREE community projects.


X-Ter:
Considering you started this thread, and have lept to the defence of R2P from everyones comments, claim its fantastic news for LFS, all the while protesting not to be 'on the payroll' (extremely bias obviously, just not paid to be is my guess) perhaps you can cut through the BS that yourself and your other 2 newly registered R2P off-springs have come up with, and actually tell us why this is "Great news".
i dont see why people should be BS'd like they're morons by trolls who've come here to give some sort of welcome to the R2P era type spiel and hide the fact that they've got nothing new to offer with this manner of self-importance within the sim world.
If there's something special/worthwhile about R2P in this community that means we should take notice then say it, but if you come here making posts with some illusions of grandeur to announce nothing special, your going to get people asking questions and highlighting how it does look like your money grabbing trollops hoping to cash in on another community (only a few years late mind you).


As for arguing an R2P subscription makes more sense for us than buying into iRacing for a year, are we supposed to just ignore the obvious fact that your comparing a subscription that offers this community nothing against something that gives us a years free racing and allows the purchase of optional content.
iRacing :: years access to new sim & some content
R2P :: nothing unless you play other sims you've already paid for once.
say what you like about iRacings history, but they'd offer most of the LFS community something they'd be interested in. R2P offers us first dibs on R2P events... yay?.

Round Replays: http://www.lfsproseries.net/media.php

Top 10 results from Round 3


Full results

A full race report can be found on the LFS Pro Series website by the weekend, along with the complete points standings for the driver and team championships.

Last edited by PaulC2K, Fri 13 Mar 2009, 06:51.

Quote from Cherry :

Seems like everything is wrong to me after reading your post.

No, *everything* isnt wrong, lfs has good points and bad points, and the speed in which we see progress is definately planted firmly in the bad column.

If you'd been part of this community for more than a couple of months you'd know its not a doomlord view, its the reality.
The people who've been here since before say 2005, those who've not just recently appeared and everything is still rosey and new, plenty of them rarely play the game and are disappointed at the lack of progress. They're still here because they love the game and the community established around it, and like me they're desperate to find a reason to get back into playing it, because unfortunately we've had the pleasure/misfortune of playing the majority of the game for 5 years now, the Demo got old and S1 saved the day, S1 got old and eventually S2 alpha came along, but with each version, the same boredom exists of the old content, you've kinda grown sick of the sight of driving round the same combos and need a fresh challenge.

The progress, or lack of it, is slowly killing the community, or at least the parts of it which matter (ie those who are loyal to LFS, rather than flakey folk), it can be replaced by people who are here for a few months until Codemasters/EA release another bland & canned effect riddled game, but the people who've been here for a decent number of years are getting smaller by the day, and its not because LFS is cr*p but because nothing really changes.

I doubt something better than LFS will come along anytime soon, but in the last couple of years i've barely raced in LFS, yet theres barely a day that goes by where i dont spend 4-12hrs working on something LFS related. Thats the sad part, ive not lost interest in LFS, ive just lost interest in driving in it, the community is all that keeps it going between these *meaningful* updates which happen once a year.


So if your going to mock people for being disappointed at the slow progress, at least have the decency to have some experience of it first.

Quote from anttt69 :

Well as the VW was originally going to be released in December & it's now March, i think we deserve a progress report or some kind of explanation. I have been keeping quiet & waiting patiently after scawen announced his house move & ISP problems but after this much waiting I think many LFS'ers just feel a bit let down & a little dissapointed in our devs.

Does anyone have any news?

I've given up caring, was looking forward to it because the slower cars are more forgiving and kinder to my lack of ability
[edit]I dont care largely due to the fact that it wont make LFS any better, sadly it needs more than a car, however good it may be[/edit]


LFS first got its reputation as being one of those rare games, done the way all games should be done, from the heart, done right, and not rushed out to meet a deadline some unskilled publisher suit forces upon you.
People saw it as being refreshing, the developers almost working with the community, updates of what's been going on lately and talk of things to look forward to.
Today it feels more like a deadend game going nowhere fast, and we're always left looking forward to things, rather than actually getting anything.
LFS just isnt what it used to be, and thats the truely disappointing thing. The community used to be full of optimism and anticipation for the direction it was heading, now its full of moaning, doom & pessemism... like this post.
Its a sad thing really, LFS had so much promise and yet its failing to keep up the momentum it had in the early years. Maybe in the early says it was easier to seem like things were moving faster because in a harsh & blunt way, they were 'half-arsed' in comparison to the lengths they go to today. Something they did well could take 2 weeks, but done accurately takes 2 months, and thats why everything feels like its happening at a snails pace compared to a few (5!) years ago.

Few people know what the hold-up is with the VWS, but i can only imagine it was a very important & significant oversight, or something of that matter. Its not going to be something meaningless because i cant imagine the dev's want a whiney community.

As for 'they said Dec, its now March'... if you asked the devs what the weather will be like in the Sahara tomorrow, they'll say hot, and it'll undoubtably start snowing... anyone who's been here long enough knows thats how things roll in LFS. If something can go wrong - it will, and If something cant go wrong - it still will.

Quote from PaulC2K :

Also, having just viewed the vid, im now wondering whether the decision to record at 960x600, resize it by 80% to fit into 720x480 (gives full height, and about 60px excess width). Main reason being there seems to be jaggies everywhere, where recording at the resolution i plan to display it at, would retain its silky smooth AA/AF goodness, while Premiere seems to just remove pixel rows which i guess on reflection is bl**dy obvious it'd do that
:dunce:
Giving it a whirl using 'Antialias' effect, but when i've used it before, it appears to have been the '1-touch uglify' setting mis-labeled, but it might save me a couple of hours if it looks okay in video, rather than still frames.... nope, if thats antialias, then someone needs their eyes testing!

Guess im going back to recapture, cut, replace, re-faff with everything, oh yey :banghead:

After redoing all the footage for the first race, and then putting half of it into the scene and checking, its just as jaggy as before.
Even uncompressed AVI (at 1gb/min) it was the same.

Turns out, after all that faffing, theres an option hiding away in Premiere, each sequence/scene file has its own bunch of settings, including 'maximum render quality' and 'maximum bit depth'.

Max bit depth is an option that sometimes is available when going to the final encode area (not there for a few though, incl h264) but the option of doing a half-decent version, or a proper version isnt there. It makes no sense having it that way around, cos i can understand if you wanna quick look to size it up, rather than waiting a little longer for a perfect version, but its hardly in the ideal place to tinker with.
So theres a few more hours wasted
:banghead:
:banghead:

Also, appologies for turning this thread into a 'lets hear paul vent about video editing' thread

well, the vid is an early start on a season review of LFSPS, figured seeing as its all new to me i'd start playing before the first race began, get a feel for it etc.
Now i have 2 rounds of action to pick the meat off the bones, and its quite tricky finding a nice balance, but i do feel that what i have so far is a good account of 2hrs racing (in 4m20sec) without it having flat spots in there.
Im very happy with what I have, but im just concerned that after an intro, so far theres 4min of footage from 4 races (2 races per round, so roughly 1min per race) and theres 14 races to the season, so it suggests im going to be hitting 15min.

It leaves me 3 choices:
- leave it at 15min, ~1min per race.
- make each race shorter, 45sec per race is still 11min total, 30sec is 8min and your seeing nothing really.
- cut it into smaller chunks, either per round, or have a Rnd 1-4 & 5-7 in 2 vids.

The 3rd option seems to be the most likely though. My reservations on doing it round by round originally was that i feel obligated to give an actual account of the race. With a short (it was the plan!) video you can get away with half action, half arty-farty shots.
Its damn hard work trying to record racing without it being boring or really long, because so many of the best bits arent 5-10sec clips, they're side-by-side stuff lasting half a lap, and if you just show a fraction of it you feel like your short-changing the events, if you sit there and let it record you'd have a 10min video of each race and it be boring as hell.

At the moment, the only thing which i think is 'flat' in the video is the opening, which is obviously not ideal when you need to captivate the audience in 15sec else they're searching for happy-slapping vids or whatever the latest craze is. It feels more like the ending tbh, always has done, its too slow and lacking impact so maybe i'll swap that out and place it at the end.

oh, and dont get me started on how hard it'll be to find more music... never realised just how big a challenge that is

Ive shied away from the .mpg formats purely because i dont have anything with which to compress it down after encoding, but i guess theres plenty of settings in there to tweak the quality/filesize, its just that something like VirtDub can hammer down an avi in about 0.5x vid length whereas Adobe Media Encoder takes about 3x vid length. The fact that it plays on a PS3 & 360 too i guess, is nice
Running mine through atm see how it looks at 3Mbps/4Mbps max.
[update]
bu**er told it to re-do an old variation which is about 24hrs old.
106mb for 4:49 and i cant really nit-pick at the quality either.
[/update]

Are you planning to distribute the video, cos currently im struggling to keep within 10min (im about 1/3 in, and at 5:10 :razz and i know at this rate it'll be a 15min vid and yet larger than your average acquired film
What i dont really want to do is make the downloadable version too large, i have no problem making it available and coping with the bw demands for it, i just dont know if people would bother downloading a 200mb vid.
Maybe im being pessimistic, but i get the feeling im about the only person who'd be bothered about it to the extent that they'd want a near flawless version, if you know what i mean.


Also, having just viewed the vid, im now wondering whether the decision to record at 960x600, resize it by 80% to fit into 720x480 (gives full height, and about 60px excess width). Main reason being there seems to be jaggies everywhere, where recording at the resolution i plan to display it at, would retain its silky smooth AA/AF goodness, while Premiere seems to just remove pixel rows which i guess on reflection is bl**dy obvious it'd do that
:dunce:
Giving it a whirl using 'Antialias' effect, but when i've used it before, it appears to have been the '1-touch uglify' setting mis-labeled, but it might save me a couple of hours if it looks okay in video, rather than still frames.... nope, if thats antialias, then someone needs their eyes testing!

Guess im going back to recapture, cut, replace, re-faff with everything, oh yey :banghead:

See, this is why you make a decision not to touch video editing, and STICK to it.

Quote from Itar (CZ) :

Not for the LFS at all, but when I recorded with fraps, with AA in game, it gave around 10 FPS and never more... with AA off in game and on in nvidia control panel, I was able to do 15 (most probably even much more, but I'm recording on 0.5x speed, so I have turned on maximal FPS in game to 15 FPS) while the game was looking the same.

Oh, forgot to mention graphic card I had... It was Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT.

Maybe you've already tried it, but have you considered resizing the lfs window to a resolution slightly larger than you plan to distribute the finished product?
ie 720x480 resize lfs to 960x600, that allows you to scale the captured footage down to 80% or leave it 100% which is pretty handy to have that option.

I'd imagine the difference between recording at 960x600 over something like 1280x960 could be quite a lot, and if the AA related improvements youve uncovered make a decent impact, you could get a steady 24fps at x1.0 speed.


I only started looking at video editing about 6wks ago, i've always avoided the temptation because as far as i was concerned i had more than enough things on my 'job' description at Mercury and wasnt lumping video maker onto that list
I've only just thought to look here for suggestions, and while i dont think there was anything there i hadnt come to the same conclusion on on my own, its certainly a good thread and a lot of does need saying (ie go easy on the effects etc).


My tip for the thread, based on my own experience though its possibly just something within Premiere being the snobbish application that it is...

Pixel Aspect Ratio
Its a little f**ker, and it can end up distorting the finished product so it looks a little odd.
On your monitor, you're seeing & recording things at a ratio of 1.0, so you have a 100x100px square, it appears 100x100. If your videos PAR ratio is 0.909 (NTSC) or 1.09 (PAL) then you'll get a 100x91px rectangle or 100x109px rectangle, its 10% narrower or taller than how it should be.
Always check for it in the settings when it asks you about the movie you want to make, likewise check when your outputting it to avi/flv.

Might not be a problem on many video editting packages, but it really frustraited me for the first couple of weeks, why something captured at 4:3 wasnt fitting perfectly into a 4:3 scene... for a while i would stretch the video out of proportion, ie 70% wide, 80% height, to get the image back into proportion.

i'll post my finished video in a couple of months once its completed


Out of interest, does anyone fancy divulging their findings in terms of video compression for the various formats? I've found that finding something your happy with is almost as time consuming as making the video in the first place. Its constant back n forth with tweaking the compression, encoding it, playing the file & checking the filesize, then back to tweaking the compression again...
It'd be handy if someone with a little more knowledge and experience behind them would be willing to give some good ballpark figures for what to aim for.
Whether thats by saying aim for 500/kbps or say 640x480 ~5mb/min of footage, 720x480 ~7mb/min etc

From my own findings, im finding compressing to flv far more rewarding compared to avi (divx/xvid @780/kbps).
Im getting 16mb/min @ 720x480 using default divx 'home theatre' setting
compared to 9mb/min @ 640x426 for flv which looks much cleaner (if i could use 720x480 i would, but it wouldnt fit its intended location).
I've no idea whats considered reasonable, so i think it'd be handy if some kind of ballpark figures were included in the OP to give makers a rough idea what to be aiming for, esp if they can be given the details of how to acheive the best compression while retaining a high quality.

hmm, not having access to my email, wasnt aware of this thread till now.

yeah, unfortunately im strapped for cash atm, havent had any work since Sept (im Self Empl), which is why ive been able to put all my time into LFSPS stuff. My only source of income is a small website, 95% of that money pays my bills (technically singular, a CC debt) and that doesnt even cover restocking, i usually restock after finishing some work, and stocks getting pretty low (main seller has been out since xmas).


I was actually £1.04 short of the total, the Mercury paypal piggybank had £1.16 but paypal would have stole too much for it to be any use, next to nobody in Merc was online (nobody with a PP account) and eventually, thanks to Josh/Arrow, the hosting went back in once the bill was paid.
The LFSPS site would have been my main concern, purely because its needed for this week, except i kinda need my shop site in order to pay the bill

btw, minor news update, XFusion now leads the constructers standings on 99999pts

If you dished out penalties which reflected the damage done, it still makes little difference when its a GT1/GT2 cross-class incident, penalising them an hour you wont benefit from it.

Likewise, time alone is irrelevent, if your on say lap 5 and mid-pack, and your spun losing 10 seconds, you lose around 10 places. Penalising someone 10sec in 2hrs time when you've finally got an MPR to make the protest, and the pack is spread out and 10sec means nothing anymore.
You cant justify different penalties for identical incidents, purely because the circumstances beyond the incident are different. If someone spins you due to an avoidable mistake, that should be a fixed penalty, and to my knowledged thats always been the case.

I think sometimes people forget that sometimes these incidents happen in real life racing, and nothing happens. They're called crashes, and in most cases the race goes on if possible. Its not often you get cars sent for a SG or DT, yet when you consider the number of incidents you see its a low percentage which get penalised in most series.

yeah, it was intended as a suggestion for Season 5, to be considered over the summer.

It makes sense to try and enforce rules the same way from start to finish whenever reasonably possible, thats understandable and wouldnt be fair otherwise. I just hate it when you see things in a different light to when you decided upon a rule, im seeing that already in LFSPS.

yeah, i understand he's saying its being looked into, but it should have been done in the 'this threads being locked/deleted' posts, ie when the issue is being brought to your attention. If there isnt any sign of understanding or effort to listen to concerns, then its understandable the posts will continue until that impression is given.
A lot of steam can be taken out of complaints/criticism by just acknowledging it so the person knows they're being listened to, not just fobbed off because that doesnt help calm the situation.

I also hope you'll take some consideration to the 'suspended penalty' suggestion for minor skin irregularities, a similar approach has been used this season where incidents have cropped up but really werent worth slapping a penalty on. IMO thats definately a step in the right direction, and worth looking at for some minor rule breaking where the rule being broke doesnt have a serious impact, maybe use 2 same rule-breaks in a 12 month period = penalty, or 3 different minor's = same effect.
As i say, LFS has a nasty habit of screwing up decent races, rules should be there to make racing fairer and cleaner, ideally having no impact on the race unless theres no choice, and the minor penalties being equal to cases of bad driving just doesnt feel honest and justifiable.

Quote from AppiePils :

Just a FYI: The fact that Milan's threads have been removed has to do with the way how they were addressed, and does not mean that the valid points brought up by him aren't taken up for further improvement if deemed necessary.

But those points are PUBLICLY ignored.

It doesnt matter if you spend every waking moment talking about it privately, if publicly your not acknowledging the points and at least making the statement that your taking the critisism seriously and it'll be looked at to ensure that the suitable measures in place are there to ensure everything was done properly and fairly etc. You dont have to agree something is a mess, or say they're wrong, just acknowledge their opinion and make sure what they're saying isnt true.
If you dont acknowledge it, it looks like you dont care or arent interested in checking, and their views are being ignored, and because it gets ignored and locked they feel the need to take the discussion to somewhere you cant interupt it, till someone moves it somewhere you can anyway.

Ive never understood some of the actions of MoE, and your left with the impression that if you have a criticism, and dont have all the answers, then STFU cos your not helping by highlighting issues, sweep them under the carpet. Too often an 'Us v Them' mentality seems to be used, and it seems to be forgotten that if these people didnt care, they wouldnt make the posts they'd just stop turning up.

Quote :

Rules are the same for everyone.

We admit when we are wrong.

We were not wrong in our decisions in this race, in our opinion.

As stated in the protest thread, if you have an issue with the admin team you should bring it directly to us rather than making a thread like this. This is your last warning.

I dont think he's once really suggested that the penalties his team received were wrong, if he has then he's since accepted it, admitted they made a mistake and left it at that. The reason he's p*ssed off is because as is disappointingly common there are frequent inconsistencies, some rules are ignored when it suits, while others get the book thrown at them. Now rather than them being addressed, their being ignored like the rules themselves.

So far, everyone seems more intent on ignoring the reason the thread has been brought up (twice, and the 2nd for understandable reasons IMO), it seems nobody wants to rock the boat and ask under what circumstances are rules no longer rules, if they dont apply then they shouldnt be there, if they do apply then they should be stuck to and someone somewhere should be ensuring that they're followed. If theres common sense and leniency being used, then it should be used equally and fairly.
Instead it seems to be more fun for most people to insult someone whos made valid points, and from my POV wants to see a level playing field where every rule is treated the same, with the same importance of being followed as the next. If you set a penalty for certain actions, then they should be carried out, and people shouldnt be so suprised if people ask for equal leniency for something similar or less damaging to the series integrety.

I dont see why this matter should just be dismissed as someone whining or being bitter about a result, i dont think Milan got off on the right foot to begin with with this round, but despite the fact that some people might just ignore it as what they perceive to be a backlash of the result, the lad has perfectly valid points. If people are okay with a series having rules that are enforced one round and not the next, ignore the threads and dont cry about it if you fall foul to it, but dont bash him for trying to highlight irregularities which should be address and something put in place to try and ensure this doesnt happen in future.

IMO, many of the non-essential penalties in MoE are excessive (largely because you refuse to penalise in a manner less than a DT, regardless of how trivial), its like the spirit of the league comes 2nd to being a stickler for rules, rules which dont enhance the racing one jot. Failing to run a race with the correct logos should come with a warning, a 6 race suspended penalty, so if they do the same thing in the next 6 races (a full, non-calendar season) then they've had the warning and should have made sure similar doesnt happen again. These people arent acting against the rules, they're humans making simple mistakes and the only people it seems to effect are the admins, they're the only ones who take offense to it. They've turned up in an official skin, albeit one intended for the previous round, and yet its blatently obvious the error was in loading the wrong skin, not in their lazyness or ignorance to the rules because a correct version was posted beforehand, and yet a needless rule in terms of honest racing values, is used to spoil the racing, and i would have thought that would be the main thing.
Im not saying dont penalise people, the above is just my view, they did 90% right, the missing 10% wasnt there by an unfortunate mistake, and the league should be bending over backwards to try and accomodate honest mistakes, with the same level of understanding as when a blind eye is turned for other less-significant rules.

Its about doing things that are right for the series, its competitors, and keeping the racing fun, theres enough things to get stressed with before & during these big events, throwing in a penalty for something trivial wont help matters, and i dunno about others, but i'd sooner get a result on merit than simply at the expense of something 'petty' (not saying i wouldnt accept it, but i'd sooner finish 2nd honestly than 1st by a silly penalty which runs no risk of ruining things for anyone).

I know its not easy making rules, and sticking to them when sometimes you look at the circumstances and there doesnt seem to be any harm in enforcing it if it doesnt do any harm, but there needs to be some sort of consistency, thats whats being ask of the organisation team, not miracles which will see them load the correct skin and win the GT2 race, just consistency with decisions and when descrepencies should be made and when they shouldnt. You dont have to overturn decisions, just understand his POV and see if there are ways to help ensure similar incidents dont happen. As ive said, everyone takes part in MoE for the racing, thats how everyone wants to see the results being decided, fair n square, not based on something which isnt consistant and has no effect on results until its penalised.

Its not a 'Lets all hate on MoE' thread/post its a 'there are inconsistancies, they should be addressed' thread/post, both this post and IMO Milan's posts are said with the interest of fairer, more consistant, and more fitting of the damage they inflict on the series/season/race/other drivers etc. Hopefully this time they'll be treated that way, instead of being ignored, locked, and left with an message which contradicts exactly whats just happend (ie suggesting if someone starts an non-constructive thread, it'll be treated differently!? huh, what?). If things are ignored, it only makes the series WEAKER, pretending there arent issues doesnt make them go away, it just leaves holes to ruin races for others in the future, and LFS has a nasty habbit of ruining peoples races without it being anyones fault, lets not add to that.


Also, can i add, can people only reply if they have something relevent to the matter being discussed (unless its an entirely different 'protest'), we dont need more 'stop moaning, its over' comments, they've all been extremely helpful, instead it'd be more constructive to offer your POV on the issue, not the circumstances in which we got here.

Last edited by PaulC2K, Tue 3 Mar 2009, 02:11.