6 months ago i'd have said any track editor which is accessable to the masses is going to be pretty fugly, even with LittleBigPlanet on the market (which is comprehensive, but not really easily accessable to anyone without sitting through tutorials and a lot of trial & error). Typically the only easy peasy method of creating a track is like building scalextric, 4 types of corners, straights, chicanes, bridges... and the end result is a custom track but a fairly limited one which removes the real creativity people desire.
Then along came ModNation Racer, our saviour.
If you havent seen it, take a look: HD SD
I have to admit, i cant wait to get my hands on this track editor, the video above shows the developers creating an attractive though fairly simplistic figure of 8 track, a reasonable amount of scenary and landscape, and all while showing what's possible and a couple of test runs, and they've created a track which would be a perfectly fine user generated content type track inside 5min.
If you swap out the toon graphics, and instead replaced it with fairly generic but photo realistic models, then IMO something like that wouldnt harm the GT5 community.
Okay, you couldnt replicate Monaco down to the smallest detail (is it in GT5?), and you probably couldnt really accurately replicate many tracks because I dont see how you could implement all the bumps and niggles tracks have... but from a purely fantasy track level, open green landscape, i dont see why something like Westhill or Aston couldnt be recreated using tools as simple as what ModNation Racers use.
IF GT5 has a track creation tool, and its still a very big IF, then this IMO would be the best way to go about creating something that is accessable to everyone. They showed just how easy it is to create an attractive track with various features, and with no effort at all. They're both Sony assisted studios, so some sort of collaboration could have been in effect... but thats just speculating on rumour
i'd pay full retail price just for a competent track editor like MNR's in GT5, likewise LFS, how you deal with so much user generated content when a lot of it is crap... i dunno, but just like in LBP, it doesnt take long before word gets around of what's worth looking at, and paticular 'artists' work is followed.
I've never believed we'd get a tool like this for GT, ever. I never believed it'd be functional and still accessable, but MNR shows maybe it isnt that complicated.
Eitherway, im hoping the ModNation Racer beta comes along soon, hell i'd settle for more videos of it in action.
Then along came ModNation Racer, our saviour.
If you havent seen it, take a look: HD SD
I have to admit, i cant wait to get my hands on this track editor, the video above shows the developers creating an attractive though fairly simplistic figure of 8 track, a reasonable amount of scenary and landscape, and all while showing what's possible and a couple of test runs, and they've created a track which would be a perfectly fine user generated content type track inside 5min.
If you swap out the toon graphics, and instead replaced it with fairly generic but photo realistic models, then IMO something like that wouldnt harm the GT5 community.
Okay, you couldnt replicate Monaco down to the smallest detail (is it in GT5?), and you probably couldnt really accurately replicate many tracks because I dont see how you could implement all the bumps and niggles tracks have... but from a purely fantasy track level, open green landscape, i dont see why something like Westhill or Aston couldnt be recreated using tools as simple as what ModNation Racers use.
IF GT5 has a track creation tool, and its still a very big IF, then this IMO would be the best way to go about creating something that is accessable to everyone. They showed just how easy it is to create an attractive track with various features, and with no effort at all. They're both Sony assisted studios, so some sort of collaboration could have been in effect... but thats just speculating on rumour
i'd pay full retail price just for a competent track editor like MNR's in GT5, likewise LFS, how you deal with so much user generated content when a lot of it is crap... i dunno, but just like in LBP, it doesnt take long before word gets around of what's worth looking at, and paticular 'artists' work is followed.
I've never believed we'd get a tool like this for GT, ever. I never believed it'd be functional and still accessable, but MNR shows maybe it isnt that complicated.
Eitherway, im hoping the ModNation Racer beta comes along soon, hell i'd settle for more videos of it in action.
fair enough, no i hadnt. did seem a little too good to be true.
The things you chose to highlight, all have justification, and you know it. If theres something in there which is incorrect, by all means point it out. But we both know how each other goes about things. I go on and on, you manipulate the situation and ignore the issue at hand.
Typically it'd be me that starts throwing personal insults, i've refrained from that... seems you've added that to your arsenal, while sitting in your ivory tower.
I didnt call you guys morons or idiots for making up the rules, i expressed my feelings that the rules themselves are stupid, and now more and more rules are being added not for the sake of improved racing, but for this media experience. You know people want to compete in MoE and will jump through hoops, and a lot of these rules are you guys saying JUMP or we'll ruin your races before they've even started.
The question of whether these things are REALLY needed are never asked, it isnt relevent, you just decide you want them and thats the end of it. If it wasnt for the fact that you penalise people for making a mistake which does no harm, it wouldnt be an issue, but unfortunately you guys feel the need to threaten people will penalties for the most trivial of reasons, and this qualifying skin is the cherry on top, now an MoE skin is unacceptable if it has your own round's logos on, or the drivers names, which are forced by penalty if they're missing in a race. As i said in my original post, MoE used to be about the racing, but more and more of the rules are focussed on trivial aspects, but stand to spoil good honest racing which people have worked hard on. I personally find that a shame, it seems you guys believe its no big deal as long as it looks pretty on the web stream.
I dont want to see peoples races ruined because they didnt comply to a rule that exists to suit the 'media experience' of MoE. I find it offensive that you've previously threaten people with exclusion from R1Q for failure to comply to skin rules, and then ignored the same thing in the races, and i find it offensive that attitude remains in place after knowingly allowing R1 cars to fail rules unpunished. Just like i offered to modify anyones skins with the short & barely announced notice of penalties when the new MoE logo was released, on an equally harmless but punishable offense, im speaking up because i dont believe its right. I seem to recall having quite firm resistance from you guys about that MoE logo matter, and having ONE person agree with me on the fact that it was unnecessarily harsh, maybe 3J will remember that. While rules are implemented to punish people for failing to jump through hoops (intentionally or accidently) for minor media related matters, i'll be here asking for some common sense before peoples races are ruined. If it comes across as being offensive, its rarely my intention, its just me speaking my mind because some rules wind me up to no end because they are selfish and serve no benefit to the real reason we're here, to race. If you have a rule which makes the racing better, im right behind it, these arent, yet they potentially damage good clean honest racing, and thats in no-ones best interest.
Calling me a bitch though sure as hell isnt going to help matters is it, though i get the impression that was probably the intention.
Well AMEN to that.
Its amazing though, you've got stupid skinning rules, and your stupidly trying to enforce more stupid skinning rules.
They're stupid, but you threaten to penalise people for failing to follow them.
If you guys didnt take critisism as an 'Us vs Them' all the time, maybe you wouldnt feel its abusive.
But hey, i call the rules stupid and what... pathetic, idiotic... have i said anything worse than explain just what some of these rules are? Have i gone out of my way to insult someone?
Apparently thats abusive, but calling someone a bitch is acceptable, and im told to go about a new line of communication?
3J, im guessing you've NEVER said anything negative about F1 or Microsoft, right?
I guess whats okay for you guys, is unacceptable for others.
But hey, i call the rules stupid and what... pathetic, idiotic... have i said anything worse than explain just what some of these rules are? Have i gone out of my way to insult someone?
Apparently thats abusive, but calling someone a bitch is acceptable, and im told to go about a new line of communication?
3J, im guessing you've NEVER said anything negative about F1 or Microsoft, right?
I guess whats okay for you guys, is unacceptable for others.
Your conveniently ignoring your own point. The OP dictated that protests MUST include a replay.
You and I both know we dont need this since we can now have (and do have) a ton of people in the server who can pop out, check the incident in question and act upon it, before returning to the server.
Logic says the replay isnt needed, and yet despite the fact that YOU admit that this method makes complete sense, its YOU claiming that people must provide this.
Its all about COMMON SENSE and whats best for everyone. There are rules like this one which exist in the MoE series, last season the above had to be obayed to be accepted. Thankfully common sense kicks in and they can be dealt with without this being needed. Thats 1 down, and many more to go.
When your own OP's are ignored, it seems stupid to quote the OP in order to make some sort of statement of whats expected, when even the admin's dont follow other OP's warning when making their own protests.
Its silly things like this, and when this whole discussion is going on inside a thread which is warning people they have to have a Qual skin, which has its own set of instructions and a usually legal MoE skin is unacceptable, it becomes rather hypocritical to push the hard line stance when during Round 1 there were skins used which werent to the series' requirements, we (nfinity) came forward with our mistake, we didnt hide it and hope it went unnoticed, we made it known to the relevent people. While i certainly dont want our team getting penalised, particularly when it was me doing the skins (though wasnt specificly my fault), it seems wrong to take such a stance after ignoring it for the first round. Its this inconsistancy, coupled with rather silly rules which arent for the sake of the people racing, but will punish only the people racing.
I know you dont want to spoil peoples races, but it doesnt seem to be apparent that thats what a lot of these rules stand to do, and yet they exist and dont really have much need to.
I speak my mind, and after having to speaking it 3 times, only ONCE have you bothered to respond properly, rather than with a sarcastic attitude which you intentionally take despite knowing it'll only make me come back and reply.
If perhaps you didnt play silly beggers, and instead respond properly, even if it is hypocritically to come back calling me a bitch, then perhaps it'd save me posting more 'incoherent essays'.
Your not a complete moron, you read the first post, no matter how 'incoherent' you want to pretend it is, you knew what i was saying, and knew what the issues were, so dont pretend matters are any different. If you want to throw petrol on the fire, knowing what your doing, dont start crying about it like you didnt know it'd happen.
While you guys continue to make rules which spoil a series which you inherited, and make a mockery of how you officiate it, im going to be knocking about, unimpressed. You dont hesistate to punish people for making the most pedantic of mistakes you find unacceptable, but when someone brings up your own mistakes its ignored, as your initial posts proved, and 3J's only looked to distract from.
Its about time you guys took the same stance to officiating as you do for the drivers, it all impacts on the race, whether its intentional or completely accidental, their mistakes are no different to yours, the difference being you expect them to be accountable for them.
Have you guys read this?
http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... id=93792&d=1255117090
or this:
along with the dozen protests you guys accepted, despite the OP's instructions being ignored, after a couple of years of them being there.
If your arguement is going to be 'read the rules', then mine is going to be 'enforce the rules', because the people who are supposed to be running the series and ignoring them despite being told about them during events. So who's at fault here, the people who accidently fall foul of rules, or the people who make the rules and then ignore them when it suit them while threatening to use the same rules elsewhere??
Eitherway, this isnt supposed to be a 'your all useless' thread, its about addressing rules which exist which stand to ruin the experience for people. DWB would rather be arrogant and ignore the matter, clearly he doesnt care that rules are being ignored while taking a firm stance that they should be followed to the letter, and now your doing the same thing. I've had to say this on numerous occasions, stop taking an 'Us vs Them' attitude with everything that gets brought up. There are serious issues of neglect within the running of the league, and it seems you guys dont care about that. If thats the case, then so be it, but its pathetic that your all okay with 3 different rules being broke, all brought to your attention or done right under your nose, and yet your still taking this hard line stance on such a trivial meaningless rule.
The rules need a tidy up, ones which are needed and will be inforced, and ones which arent needed and are being dropped, so dont need to be inforced. Right now, you have a ton of rules, and your knowingly not enforcing them, and this needs clarifying for the sake of fairness.
If I wanted to ruin peoples races, i'd have highlighted these issues while you were blatently ignoring them. But considering you broke the rules yourself, its hardly suprising you didnt bring any of this up, is it. Maybe we should expect more from someone running the series?
Its an interesting take on the situation, what about people who are expected to enforce the rules, who dont
Either enforce all the rules, especially when you know they not being followed, or dont. Taking this stance is rather hypocritical. How are we to know this rule and its penalty is real? Maybe this is one of them your going to ignore??
If one of you guys could kindly issue a set of rules which should be actually followed, then it'd save people a lot of time, and the ones your not going to follow and turn a blind eye to, then we can all ignore it too.
Always nice to see you take running the series seriously.
It doesnt bother you that at least 5 of the 30 cars on the grid had something wrong with their skin, and you knew of some of them, and surely all the admins arent blind?
It doesnt bother you that despite someone bringing cutting to your attention, you investigating the matter, and after observing the cutting being done for around 16 of the 18 laps watched... you do nothing?
It doesnt bother you that despite the OP saying all protests need to be done within a timelimit and provide replays, but only 1 from around 10 did, including one you yourself submitted and punished WITHOUT complying to your own set of rules?
These are rules you implement and claim to enforce, now your trying to enforce a rule which penalises people who dont submit a skin for a qualifying session, but dont give a hoot when 15% of the grid race with an incorrect skin which seemingly doesnt bother you at all. Clearly you dont care about enforcing this on an existing race skin rule which is broadcast unedited, unlike a qual session which takes 2hrs of running and edits it to around 2-3min.
I dont want to see peoples races spoiled by silly needless rules which exist for no real beneficial reason. As Pearcy says, we create an MoE skin for every single round, just because you guys insist that every race has a new logo on it, now its a blank version for qualifying because running a regular team skin or the previous rounds skin is unacceptable, and not that long ago you wanted to issue DT's to people because you guys took so long sorting out new logos we only had ~48hrs from release to race to spot the cryptic warning of this new rule and implement it... its madness.
Im sure you guys dont sit around thinking of stupid rules to come up with that can ruin races, but thats what your doing nonetheless. Theres tons of tripwires dotted around in the rules desperate to trip you up, ruin your races, and make you feel like a sack of shit because even with all the good intentions in the world you accidently forget something which does nobody any harm, it gets punished and makes people feel like they've let the team down. For what? DaveW not having a space after his first initial? Surely thats a lifetime ban!! Not having the correct plate? Hang him!! Turning up to a MoE event wearing a skin with MoE visor, number plate, class ident, series logos, round logos, and being penalised because we're not allowed a round logo on there... When and where will it stop?
Deko... havent a clue whats up with you, this isnt anything against the work you do for MoE, its simply the requirements that your good service is now resulting in the people who compete getting a penalty if they do something which might appear on something you create.
The requirement of a blank MoE skin exists for the 2min slot it occupies midway through the event, on a fairly so-so picture quality live stream where frankly the attrocities of round logos wont be visable... but that wont stop someone from being penalised as a result of it.
I thought the idea of what you did was to cover the MoE event, and broadcast it for the people who want to see fair honest racing, and yet this new qual skin rule is going to penalise people for turning up to a non-broadcast event, seemingly because if you display some of the qual footage during the race people might see a round logo or driver line-up on the skins!? But breaking similar rules during the same broadcast the admins dont care to enforce those rules. Its nonsense, both the officiating and rule making.
I just dont understand this desire to find new ways to upset people and ruin their hard work, this isnt a professional series, its a hobby for all of us, whether were racing, organising, broadcasting or spectating, and we do it in our own time while juggling a dozen other things. If the organisers do something wrong, it happens. If something happens with the broadcast, not too worry. If someone turns up without a space in their display name... cuff em and take them to the station!
I can respect the desire for people to attend sessions with the series logos on their cars, not interfere with other racers unfairly, and rules along those lines, but when its rules which cant possibly have a positive influence on the racing experience, and only a negative one... and they keep flooding in, something needs to be looked at and the question needs to be asked, for what reason does this rule exist for when it only acts to harm the people involved?
yeah yeah
hdd packed in on me, only things on there were skin psd's i hadnt backed up since Sept 07, and my LFS/Games folder. Took a frozen loaf and bag of peas to get it working too. Wouldnt have been redoing the nFinity skins a 2nd time that much i knew then!
With this pathetic insistance on having skins for media day, R1 qualifying, season qual... it was hard enough resisting the urge to remove the R1 names and logos and replacing them with my thoughts on the importance of such a pointless requirement, instead... im saving them for here.
Despite the history for it, my own gullibility see's me suprised as each needless rule appears. It really is approaching obsessive levels of self importance and need to demand things that make sod all difference except punish those who foolishly dont comply and potentially ruin their races.
All this while numerous rules which have been in place for a number of season get ignored by all, including admins who are supposed to enforce these rules, whether their stupid skinning rules or on-track ones, either they're rules or they're not, and if they're not being enforced they should be removed instead of it being a farce having them in there and picking and chosing what rules to observe as the season goes along like its the flamin FIA. It least 3 fairly common long-term rules were ignored, with admin's knowledge (one being their own actions), and that was 1 race.
By MoE's own standards this rule is invalid, based on the 'hasnt been inforced in earlier rounds, so it'd be unfair to do so for other rounds' as at least 5 skins violated the rules last round, and i didnt go even looking either. If you're not going to enforce existing skinning rules, why create new ones? It just makes a mockery of the whole thing.
I was going to highlight the fact that 3 completely different rules were ignored (despite admin's being aware of these breaches) after the race, but the fact that its always me moaning about inconsistancies and irregularities I ignored it because it always gets out of hand and usually anything i say is intentionally taken out of context to counter the arguement, but as more and more rules of no benefit to anyone racing are introduced to punish and spoil their races, I feel its only fair to speak up as im sick of seeing non-racing rules introduced and being penalised to force an non-racing objective. If people are going to be penalised for using a race skin in a qual session, yet others can turn up ignoring rules in place for 3+ years and the admins are okay with that, its a disgrace. Either ruin peoples races for breaking harmless rules, or dont. Simple.
What happened to it being about the racing? When was it more important to have shiney pretty skins so the people watching on a low-quality stream can see something that looks like a 512 skin 99% of the time, and less about providing entertaining racing where people are only punished for their actions in-car out on the track. Why cant we just focus on racing, the one aspect of this series which actually matters, and have other things as nice additional extras which dont negatively influence what everyone signed up to do, which is to race in whats regarded as the best series in LFS?
#26 nFinity eSport Racing FZR
Had to stick my HDD in the freezer and then access the psd files with a frozen loaf under it and a bag of frozen peas on top
Had to stick my HDD in the freezer and then access the psd files with a frozen loaf under it and a bag of frozen peas on top
i'll believe it when its coming from a reputable source.
At the moment no reputable source is announcing this, and because anyone can make up quotes, its stupid to trust what could very easily be lies to generate traffic for their 2-bit website.
At the moment no reputable source is announcing this, and because anyone can make up quotes, its stupid to trust what could very easily be lies to generate traffic for their 2-bit website.
Funny you mention it, Kaz popped round to say hi a minute ago, i was busy with my exciting life, but after explaining I couldnt talk long as i had Bill Gates on hold (cant change my wallpaper, and he's on my speed dial), i had chance to ask him something, and he said:
"Yes, GT5 will be free, and it'll be out tomorrow and delivered to everyone with a PS3 and G35 wheel, 3D Monitor"
That was his official answer, and its good enough for me.
"Yes, GT5 will be free, and it'll be out tomorrow and delivered to everyone with a PS3 and G35 wheel, 3D Monitor"
That was his official answer, and its good enough for me.
I think i'll wait for a reputable source for something as big as that, my understanding is the RUMOUR is going around based on a confirmed translation of something said by someone who isnt exactly Kaz, it was recorded, so confirming the comment was correctly translated isnt the issue, its the likelyhood of the person leaking it being legit really.
If they could do what ModNation Racers have done for that game, but with real world objects instead of cartoon scenery, then that would be enough to satisfy my needs. Afterall, they cant provide the full blown tools they use and make it available to the average console user, it has to be slightly dumbed down, controllable with the 6axis/DS3, and all run through a PS3 and its tiny memory capacity.
ModNation Racers nailed it IMO, pick up and create tools which anyone can use and understand within seconds of using it. Using something similar, and swapping out the novelty cutesy factor, and trying to come up with something realistic would be all i'd need, and it'd make it extremely accessable to its community.
I'd sooner have weather & progressive time, but I certainly wouldnt knock back a simple but effective track editor even if it was limited and inferior to the PD creations.
If they could do what ModNation Racers have done for that game, but with real world objects instead of cartoon scenery, then that would be enough to satisfy my needs. Afterall, they cant provide the full blown tools they use and make it available to the average console user, it has to be slightly dumbed down, controllable with the 6axis/DS3, and all run through a PS3 and its tiny memory capacity.
ModNation Racers nailed it IMO, pick up and create tools which anyone can use and understand within seconds of using it. Using something similar, and swapping out the novelty cutesy factor, and trying to come up with something realistic would be all i'd need, and it'd make it extremely accessable to its community.
I'd sooner have weather & progressive time, but I certainly wouldnt knock back a simple but effective track editor even if it was limited and inferior to the PD creations.
Yeah, you got better traction out of the corner with the AWD, and there isnt even enough time to react to you being there tbh.
I thought my positioning was enough to see i was planning on holding that inside, there is room there, and tbh your not even on the curbing which certainly would have avoided any contact, at that point at least (your nose is level with my rear tyre) and had you gone a tad over you probably would have got 3/4 along side me before braking and you'd have had the inside too.
Personally, i thought it was a racing incident, certainly an avoidable incident.
Its not a problem, thats why i asked if you could watch the replay and see it properly. There was a dozen things that I (both of us) could have done to avoid the incident, but turning in and causing it certainly wasnt what happened and i knew it was clear on the replay. tbh though, it'd have been better if after realising you could have corrected the comment here, as its not a pleasant read seeing someone say you pushed their driver off, i'd spent 1am-8am the night before trying to get my PC just to boot properly as things have gone ugly in there, so it was a long day hence a chunk of repeated ranting (SO unlike me
)not to worry though, shame it had to happen cos i'd spent most of the race around z8 even without the pace car
As for the 2nd point, i have to agree in part with what your saying, but there doesnt need to be a blanket ban on mid-race protests, there just needs to be fair & impartial wording of the incident reports unless you can be certain of the case i guess.
If people ask for an incident to be reviewed, giving only the details required to locate it, then thats fine. However in the instance of your protest against me your making comments that you cant be sure of, which IMO isnt particularly fair to the other party. The review should be (and im guessing it is) of both parties, and regardless of who initiates the review the driver/s at fault are penalised where appropriate.
I also have a thing about the term 'protest', for LFSPS we dont have protests, we have incident reviews/reports, i think the terminology is fairer and not as leading as issuing a protest against someone. A protest IMO says you believe what they did is wrong, and should be dealt with, while requesting an incident be reviewed is only asking for it to be assessed.
Its the same process, friendlier terminology IMO.
"The racing surface shall be defined as the marked, paved race course and its curbing only" - There was curbing, flat curbing for at least a cars width.
Also the 1/4 overlap, thats only just acheived if you count the front splitter.
Having a look at the screenshot of the replay... theres a cars width of space there at the point of contact. He didnt need to be as tight as he was there, he'd got better traction out of the corner and could have given me more time to see he was putting himself there, as well as get further alongside me, instead he'd barely got there and we'd had very minor contact but the positioning of it on my rear cause the car to kink in his direction excentuating matters.
So technically, as warned you want me to leave a tad bit more room, well there was a cars width, how big does this tad need to be?
As i say, i know its not a penalty or something worth kicking up a huge fuss about, but im still being warned about my actions, and so far i havent read something that puts me at fault, not by your rules or anyone elses i know of. I just find it concerning, especially on the back of a ludicrous 'divebomb' comment, how much time is spent looking at things and coming to a fair outcome. Your outcome was 'leave more room" when theres a cars width of legal racing surface by your terms, and "dont divebomb" when i've just took quick avoiding measures and been unable to settle and slow the car quickly enough (i accept it was my fault for the spin, even if it was due to avoiding a lapse in their judgement).
As i see it, ive done nothing wrong, you havent highlighted something I have done wrong, and if there is something im doing wrong i'd like to know to try and avoid it in the future. I can understand advice to try and help matters (not that i took actions to make matters worse) but warning me for my actions seems rather harsh when you havent highlighted something i HAVE done which i shouldnt have. Its GTAL, im here to learn and get up to speed in this class, but i dont know of any rule in any series (Virtual or IRL) that would find me guilty of doing something wrong in that incident.
I'd rather know and try and avoid it, that continue and get punished for something i see as being quite acceptable, and when its peoples races being spoiled because im doing something im not allowed to, i dont want to be responsible for that (nor the penalty we'd get for it).
Pushed?? I didnt move an inch until he hit me, and that was only because he hit me!! Your driver hit my rear when i was holding my line as im perfectly intitled to do, i didnt suddenly move over to block him or anything, he just decided he'd take that line and rather than go cleanly he had to go door to door to do it, and it resulted in him hitting my car on the RR wheel, and it kinked right across and sending himself spinning.
If your going to complain about my driving, at least check what actually happened rather than claiming i did something i didnt do.
Please watch the replay, and watch in slow motion and you'll see i didnt move the wheel in either direction, i just held a defensive line and protect the inside, he was directly behind me, had either side as an option and HE made a decision to go that side. He chose a path where i'd intentionally left no room, thats the whole point of 'closing the door', i didnt want someone making a silly move.
So how is that my fault? I made my intentions clear, i took 1 line and only 1 line, and didnt turn the wheel until after i was hit, to counter act that contact. Your driver made all the decisions.
I also didnt change line the other half-dozen times he rammed into the back & side of me either.
That included the start where he gave me sod all space through the chicane and was at least a cars length ahead of me when the lights went green despite qualifying behind me. I know its not a penalty, but i dont understand why im not allowed to hold a defensive line parallel to the track. I didnt move once after straightening up, he was directly behind me, went to pass and couldnt do it without hitting a car which wasnt moving side to side or anything, and spun.
I didnt force him to pass on that side, if anything i made it clear it wasnt an option and he could have gone left where there was plenty of room which i wasnt already occupying, i just stayed where i was, i committed to a line and stuck to it, and he committed to a pass he couldnt complete cleanly.
I can take the comment on-board as advice, but a warning suggests im at fault, at fault for doing what im entitled to do, because someone wanted to make a silly pass where there wasnt room? Could you clarify what i did which is wrong, thats breaking a rule, cos im not seeing anything atm and as i see it im being issued a warning because you want to give advice. Im not really sure.
Yeah, sorry about that 3J, though im not quite sure why you think im trying to pass you there, thats rather absurd (as is the 'dont divebomb' warning).
I wasnt attempting to divebomb anyone, I might have been slightly late on the brakes, but that was simply because I was originally trying to take a normal line into the corner as there was a decent sized gap there after you and #89 got through, but the contact between you and #89 after you'd cut across his nose slowed you both down, and i had to quickly change line to avoid running into the back of #89 and was along side him, but i couldnt stop soon enough to stop for you. I just quickly tried to react to what was happening infront of me, while still braking, down-shifting and initially not get tangled up in both your cars, as it was a snap decision not knowing if you'd both spin or be fine.
It wasnt some stupid masterplan to gain 2 places from a car 2+ lengths infront of me.
I accept that i caused the incident, but equally had you not cut across lanes and hit #89 i wouldnt have had to quickly reposition myself to try and avoid getting caught up in it, and i think my car got a bit out of shape (sudden movement to avoid #89, braking and downshifting) which didnt help matters. My appologies for it though.
Anyway, if you'd held a more defensive inside line when i was trying to pass you round the outside i wouldnt have been there to 'divebomb' you
. To be honest I couldnt see him as we were side by side, i obviously knew you were there, but as i'd looked across his car was hidden by yours, hadnt realised there was a 3rd car also in there and took what i thought would be a clean 2-car-wide line, had i known i guess i'd have tried to take a wider line, you were kinda pinned in there and cant complain about the room you left on the inside or really overshooting it causing our bump.
On an unrelated matter, i thought the qualifying session was quite disappointing as a few people who couldnt give a hoot about others when they were driving around on their 'in lap'. I was doing 2+ flying laps, and twice i had potentially very good laps ruined by people deciding because they'd done their 1 flying lap then everyone else must have too.
Enjoyable race though, shame it took so many attempts to go green hehe
And your comparing who with who exactly?
This'll be fair and balanced comparison im sure
This'll be fair and balanced comparison im sure
Cawwa has already responded on this 'where on earth did you get that impression' on post #18, but here it is anyway...
You use GTAL as an example of how it would be done, come up with a total of £812 based on an estimate, then explain how it'd pay the next 12 months of NDR's fee's, repay the money NDR members have used for NDR events, and then clear as day explain that the remaining ~1/3 would be for a PRIZE FUND.
We didnt do the maths, we didnt jump to conlcusions, we followed the original post explaining exactly what this donation would be used for, and strongly objected to the part of what you guys describe would be done with that funding.
What i dont get is that for the example given, if GTAL took on that donation model, and after paying for what you say is the next 12 months costs, pays off £275 of previous bills, and leaves £225 for winnings. Right?
Well, what about Beginners Cup, LFSCART (+light), M.FBM, KyotoXXX and other 1-off events?
GTAL just paid off £600 worth of invoices and past bills, and left some winnings afterwards, if you take anything like the same approach with LFSCART which has far more rounds, then it should on a similar pricing structure generate something in the region of £1000. But you have no debts, no outstanding invoices... so those 2 would effectively put £1250 into the pot. LFSCART is the only non-beginner league, Ky250/500 is a 1-off, so where is this projected £1250 going to go? cos thats not the leftovers from donations, thats a f**kin nice chunk of money, which 2 leagues alone has produced.
Obviously £812 from GTAL is the 'if everyone' scenario, but that to me just goes to show the 'what if', you dont NEED £812 from 1 league, you need like £150 from GTAL and CART to cover what you say are your yearly costs. I would assume NDR started running leagues because you enjoy doing it, not because of any demand that you do them, but out of your personal choice. So i can understand you asking if people can help cover the costs of you guys providing a service. Im not sure about the 'pay our past debts too' part, nor the 'and with all this money we can create prizes' either.
I think its only reasonable that we help remove the financial costs involved, but i dont see why anyone should donate to create a prize money pot, there isnt a need for it, paying your bills is a need, giving away shit isnt a need, its a 'wouldnt that be nice'.
But considering the yearly cost is £300, if driver in GTAL and LFSCART paid £0.30 for each round, then you'd be at pretty much break even. That'd be £2.40 for GTAL (x2/x3 drivers), £3.00 for LFSCART per season, of 30 cars comes to £234-£306 alone. 2 leagues, all bills paid pretty much.
If of those 60 cars on the grid, only 1/4 pays, well thats 1/4 of the cost you chose to take on board to run these events. Its better than f**k all, which is how its been in the past and hasnt been an unexpected cost.
Asking for help paying bills is fine IMO, coming up with structures on what is acceptable (my terminology) as a donation, and how your would spend the excess money left over from all the donations just turns it all into a planned business strategy rather than a gesture of good will from folks.
The whole feeling of it puts me off wanting to donate that much i will say, it just doesnt feel like a 'we could do with some help if your able & willing' and turns it into a 'this is how we can pay the costs and make money to give away' from a group providing a voluntary service. Im not critisising you guys, but i dont think its a positive direction your going in.
You use GTAL as an example of how it would be done, come up with a total of £812 based on an estimate, then explain how it'd pay the next 12 months of NDR's fee's, repay the money NDR members have used for NDR events, and then clear as day explain that the remaining ~1/3 would be for a PRIZE FUND.
We didnt do the maths, we didnt jump to conlcusions, we followed the original post explaining exactly what this donation would be used for, and strongly objected to the part of what you guys describe would be done with that funding.
What i dont get is that for the example given, if GTAL took on that donation model, and after paying for what you say is the next 12 months costs, pays off £275 of previous bills, and leaves £225 for winnings. Right?
Well, what about Beginners Cup, LFSCART (+light), M.FBM, KyotoXXX and other 1-off events?
GTAL just paid off £600 worth of invoices and past bills, and left some winnings afterwards, if you take anything like the same approach with LFSCART which has far more rounds, then it should on a similar pricing structure generate something in the region of £1000. But you have no debts, no outstanding invoices... so those 2 would effectively put £1250 into the pot. LFSCART is the only non-beginner league, Ky250/500 is a 1-off, so where is this projected £1250 going to go? cos thats not the leftovers from donations, thats a f**kin nice chunk of money, which 2 leagues alone has produced.
Obviously £812 from GTAL is the 'if everyone' scenario, but that to me just goes to show the 'what if', you dont NEED £812 from 1 league, you need like £150 from GTAL and CART to cover what you say are your yearly costs. I would assume NDR started running leagues because you enjoy doing it, not because of any demand that you do them, but out of your personal choice. So i can understand you asking if people can help cover the costs of you guys providing a service. Im not sure about the 'pay our past debts too' part, nor the 'and with all this money we can create prizes' either.
I think its only reasonable that we help remove the financial costs involved, but i dont see why anyone should donate to create a prize money pot, there isnt a need for it, paying your bills is a need, giving away shit isnt a need, its a 'wouldnt that be nice'.
But considering the yearly cost is £300, if driver in GTAL and LFSCART paid £0.30 for each round, then you'd be at pretty much break even. That'd be £2.40 for GTAL (x2/x3 drivers), £3.00 for LFSCART per season, of 30 cars comes to £234-£306 alone. 2 leagues, all bills paid pretty much.
If of those 60 cars on the grid, only 1/4 pays, well thats 1/4 of the cost you chose to take on board to run these events. Its better than f**k all, which is how its been in the past and hasnt been an unexpected cost.
Asking for help paying bills is fine IMO, coming up with structures on what is acceptable (my terminology) as a donation, and how your would spend the excess money left over from all the donations just turns it all into a planned business strategy rather than a gesture of good will from folks.
The whole feeling of it puts me off wanting to donate that much i will say, it just doesnt feel like a 'we could do with some help if your able & willing' and turns it into a 'this is how we can pay the costs and make money to give away' from a group providing a voluntary service. Im not critisising you guys, but i dont think its a positive direction your going in.
I know colours dont count, im just going along with the pathetic attempts of 1-up-manship going on in here.
In terms of duplicate cars, if they're different models, both visually AND specs, or race-tuned versions, then i'd say they're fair to class as a new car.
If theres a 2.0L, 2.6L and 3.0L then thats a little ghay, but if its say a F430 in standard road spec, customer track version, and team race version, then they should be seperate IMO. Though it does seem a little pathetic if you removed all those variations of 1 car, and the 500 went down to 200, but i wouldnt expect a DTM spec Audi to be counted as one alongside its road variation.
I have to admit, i am looking forward to the photo mode, and i dont care how often the LFS Dev's say LFS isnt a screenshot generating software, i bloody wish it had it. Considering what GT4 looked like in-game, and what the photo mode could produce as a result... i'd love to have the same in LFS.
Likewise i'd like visual customisation, but in saying that, it was in Ferrari Challenge, and i barely touched it, though that could have been because it wasnt the easiest of things to use and F3 probably does it much better.
As for getting along, absolutely not!!
In GT5 we can change the colours of our cars, meaning our 800 goes to about 100430843928402384902, which suddenly becomes a much bigger number!!!
And yes, my understanding is the hop-up aspect of past is back in there, so you'll be able to tweak certain aspects of it all while still maintaining the main aspects. Dunno what F3 offers, but i doubt theres other engines you can throw in them, just power increases, weight reduction, flywheels, clutches, gear packs and whatever else there used to be in there.
Dustin, your seriously misguided!!
Content isnt cars, who cares about cars
Content isnt tracks, who cares about tracks
Content is about stickers and body kits or whatever shite they offer in Forza 3 aka 'The worlds greatest simulator EVAH!!'
Just like Next-Gen consoles are about VGA ports, DVD drives, none-standard HDD's, and all the other crap they put in there because rather than use Next-Gen hardware they could rush something out that couldnt cool itself properly and scratched its customers discs, but it made it all worthwhile cos it could get a year headstart on its rival.
THAT my friend is what next-gen is all about, rushing out last years tech and worrying about the consequences 2 years down the line, around the same sort of time you admit you knew about all those issues when you released it.
Anyway, can we please stick to the topic of this thread, its a Forza Lovin thread, lets not spoil it with people talking about GT ey, thats just unthinkable... which is exactly what Microsoft said about producing a fault-free 360
Content isnt cars, who cares about cars
Content isnt tracks, who cares about tracks
Content is about stickers and body kits or whatever shite they offer in Forza 3 aka 'The worlds greatest simulator EVAH!!'
Just like Next-Gen consoles are about VGA ports, DVD drives, none-standard HDD's, and all the other crap they put in there because rather than use Next-Gen hardware they could rush something out that couldnt cool itself properly and scratched its customers discs, but it made it all worthwhile cos it could get a year headstart on its rival.
THAT my friend is what next-gen is all about, rushing out last years tech and worrying about the consequences 2 years down the line, around the same sort of time you admit you knew about all those issues when you released it.
Anyway, can we please stick to the topic of this thread, its a Forza Lovin thread, lets not spoil it with people talking about GT ey, thats just unthinkable... which is exactly what Microsoft said about producing a fault-free 360
Ima have to agree with Cawwa (and anyone else who's said it), this isnt the league to be doing this with, for numerous reasons.
1) I hate the premise of pay to drive, i know this is 'donate if you want', but your already talking about it as a possibility and even if you werent its still 1 step closer to that, and pushing the repeated "we'd really appreciate some money" line is pretty close to requesting the money, especially if your even going to set up a pricing structure, enforced or otherwise.
2) Its a league which i was under the impression was set up kinda like a feeder series for people to gain experience, limiting it to the lower ranking drivers like myself who arent quick enough to drive in MoE/IGTC etc but still have a desire to race in such a league for fun. Throwing in the competitive element of 'and the prize money is £xxx' makes this far from Amateur, and theres more of an incentive to win races with the best drivers you'll allow than there is of letting inexperienced drivers take the wheel. If i hand my username over to bawbag, and our other n00bs do the same, its easy money.
If you do this with NDR Uber Kick-Ass League, anyone can enter and win some fancy shiz, then thats great, its fair and transparent. If you do it with restrictions on who can enter and who cant, based on the fact that they're too GOOD to compete, thats wrong, and it doesnt take a genious to see how it can be abused.
Theres plenty of projects in LFS where a simple donation option is available, and leave it to peoples generosity to assist paying for some of the unavoidable expenses, but structuring fees for a season and rounds, for teams and driver... thats stepping out of the boundary for generosity and putting emphasis on whats an acceptable donation.
Donation button - Thats perfectly reasonable
Asking for donations - Reasonable, though not that different to standing in the street with a collection bucket and jigging it as people walk past, which isnt allowed these days.
Deciding how much people should donate - Rebrand to NDR Corp.
Pricing wise, its reasonable, i cant argue its too much to ask for, but the manner in which i feel your going about it all i dont really like, no matter how bold the big red text is, personally i grew up not asking for things, maybe as a kid there was plenty of 'can i have some sweets' but i knew from a reasonable age that if i deserved something and my folks were able to provide it, then if i was lucky then i might get that. Whether it was a bike for xmas, or a small treat as daft as an ice cream.
So from my upbringing asking for something isnt really in my nature unless i have little option but to ask (I have a crapton of debt, earn an absolute pitance of 3rd world standard, and i pay that months debt off and move onto the next month without spending anything on myself, yet my folks could clear it without batting an eyelid). Im not saying its wrong to ask for help, but in this way, i find its too emphasised on guilt and pressure than honest generosity. To be clear, im not critisising anyones upbringing either, just explaining my feelings and why.
Also, drifting OT a little, all the leagues which im aware of which involved fees and/or prizes have an amazing knack of disappearing mid-season too. eRacing or whatever it was called vanished, their big selling point being you could race in the top tier league with the top drivers, and in there they have decent prizes (ofc realisticly only ~5 people had a chance!) and those drivers didnt have to pay a penny to stand a chance of winning something, and the slower drivers were the ones expected to fund it all!
oneGP (09) had plans to charge teams to enter their blatent rip-off league (description text, rules, get rich quick plan...) which the original (FSR) charges high 3-figure sums per team, and OneGP claimed to offer 4-figure prizes and announce sponsors, went strangely silent on sponsors and prizes, and then prompty disappeared after about 4-5 rounds.
It seems anything with the promise of goodies turns sour, unless the dev team are running the show.
Regardless of all that, i'd strongly advise against using any proceeds on prize money for GTAL, its your league to run how you think best, but IMO its completely the wrong league to be incentivising results and removes what makes this series different from the likes of MoE/IGTC, the opportunity for regular racers to compete without looking like complete n00bs from the top drivers, we dont need their help for that
1) I hate the premise of pay to drive, i know this is 'donate if you want', but your already talking about it as a possibility and even if you werent its still 1 step closer to that, and pushing the repeated "we'd really appreciate some money" line is pretty close to requesting the money, especially if your even going to set up a pricing structure, enforced or otherwise.
2) Its a league which i was under the impression was set up kinda like a feeder series for people to gain experience, limiting it to the lower ranking drivers like myself who arent quick enough to drive in MoE/IGTC etc but still have a desire to race in such a league for fun. Throwing in the competitive element of 'and the prize money is £xxx' makes this far from Amateur, and theres more of an incentive to win races with the best drivers you'll allow than there is of letting inexperienced drivers take the wheel. If i hand my username over to bawbag, and our other n00bs do the same, its easy money.
If you do this with NDR Uber Kick-Ass League, anyone can enter and win some fancy shiz, then thats great, its fair and transparent. If you do it with restrictions on who can enter and who cant, based on the fact that they're too GOOD to compete, thats wrong, and it doesnt take a genious to see how it can be abused.
Theres plenty of projects in LFS where a simple donation option is available, and leave it to peoples generosity to assist paying for some of the unavoidable expenses, but structuring fees for a season and rounds, for teams and driver... thats stepping out of the boundary for generosity and putting emphasis on whats an acceptable donation.
Donation button - Thats perfectly reasonable
Asking for donations - Reasonable, though not that different to standing in the street with a collection bucket and jigging it as people walk past, which isnt allowed these days.
Deciding how much people should donate - Rebrand to NDR Corp.
Pricing wise, its reasonable, i cant argue its too much to ask for, but the manner in which i feel your going about it all i dont really like, no matter how bold the big red text is, personally i grew up not asking for things, maybe as a kid there was plenty of 'can i have some sweets' but i knew from a reasonable age that if i deserved something and my folks were able to provide it, then if i was lucky then i might get that. Whether it was a bike for xmas, or a small treat as daft as an ice cream.
So from my upbringing asking for something isnt really in my nature unless i have little option but to ask (I have a crapton of debt, earn an absolute pitance of 3rd world standard, and i pay that months debt off and move onto the next month without spending anything on myself, yet my folks could clear it without batting an eyelid). Im not saying its wrong to ask for help, but in this way, i find its too emphasised on guilt and pressure than honest generosity. To be clear, im not critisising anyones upbringing either, just explaining my feelings and why.
Also, drifting OT a little, all the leagues which im aware of which involved fees and/or prizes have an amazing knack of disappearing mid-season too. eRacing or whatever it was called vanished, their big selling point being you could race in the top tier league with the top drivers, and in there they have decent prizes (ofc realisticly only ~5 people had a chance!) and those drivers didnt have to pay a penny to stand a chance of winning something, and the slower drivers were the ones expected to fund it all!
oneGP (09) had plans to charge teams to enter their blatent rip-off league (description text, rules, get rich quick plan...) which the original (FSR) charges high 3-figure sums per team, and OneGP claimed to offer 4-figure prizes and announce sponsors, went strangely silent on sponsors and prizes, and then prompty disappeared after about 4-5 rounds.
It seems anything with the promise of goodies turns sour, unless the dev team are running the show.
Regardless of all that, i'd strongly advise against using any proceeds on prize money for GTAL, its your league to run how you think best, but IMO its completely the wrong league to be incentivising results and removes what makes this series different from the likes of MoE/IGTC, the opportunity for regular racers to compete without looking like complete n00bs from the top drivers, we dont need their help for that
Guess so We'll have his name changed to Tuna Gorilla by the time S3 is released
JoJo, deal with it
Updated earlier post to include our second car, as approved by NDR.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1288705#post1288705
Both cars have the same driver names on there, it seemed pointless removing names on the #88 skin when #99 had them all, and more pointless also editing #99 for the sake of a test race. I'll fix that if its considered important enough, just seemed silly to do it if not important.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1288705#post1288705
Both cars have the same driver names on there, it seemed pointless removing names on the #88 skin when #99 had them all, and more pointless also editing #99 for the sake of a test race. I'll fix that if its considered important enough, just seemed silly to do it if not important.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG