Funny you mention it, Kaz popped round to say hi a minute ago, i was busy with my exciting life, but after explaining I couldnt talk long as i had Bill Gates on hold (cant change my wallpaper, and he's on my speed dial), i had chance to ask him something, and he said:
"Yes, GT5 will be free, and it'll be out tomorrow and delivered to everyone with a PS3 and G35 wheel, 3D Monitor"
That was his official answer, and its good enough for me.
"Yes, GT5 will be free, and it'll be out tomorrow and delivered to everyone with a PS3 and G35 wheel, 3D Monitor"
That was his official answer, and its good enough for me.
I think i'll wait for a reputable source for something as big as that, my understanding is the RUMOUR is going around based on a confirmed translation of something said by someone who isnt exactly Kaz, it was recorded, so confirming the comment was correctly translated isnt the issue, its the likelyhood of the person leaking it being legit really.
If they could do what ModNation Racers have done for that game, but with real world objects instead of cartoon scenery, then that would be enough to satisfy my needs. Afterall, they cant provide the full blown tools they use and make it available to the average console user, it has to be slightly dumbed down, controllable with the 6axis/DS3, and all run through a PS3 and its tiny memory capacity.
ModNation Racers nailed it IMO, pick up and create tools which anyone can use and understand within seconds of using it. Using something similar, and swapping out the novelty cutesy factor, and trying to come up with something realistic would be all i'd need, and it'd make it extremely accessable to its community.
I'd sooner have weather & progressive time, but I certainly wouldnt knock back a simple but effective track editor even if it was limited and inferior to the PD creations.
If they could do what ModNation Racers have done for that game, but with real world objects instead of cartoon scenery, then that would be enough to satisfy my needs. Afterall, they cant provide the full blown tools they use and make it available to the average console user, it has to be slightly dumbed down, controllable with the 6axis/DS3, and all run through a PS3 and its tiny memory capacity.
ModNation Racers nailed it IMO, pick up and create tools which anyone can use and understand within seconds of using it. Using something similar, and swapping out the novelty cutesy factor, and trying to come up with something realistic would be all i'd need, and it'd make it extremely accessable to its community.
I'd sooner have weather & progressive time, but I certainly wouldnt knock back a simple but effective track editor even if it was limited and inferior to the PD creations.
Yeah, you got better traction out of the corner with the AWD, and there isnt even enough time to react to you being there tbh.
I thought my positioning was enough to see i was planning on holding that inside, there is room there, and tbh your not even on the curbing which certainly would have avoided any contact, at that point at least (your nose is level with my rear tyre) and had you gone a tad over you probably would have got 3/4 along side me before braking and you'd have had the inside too.
Personally, i thought it was a racing incident, certainly an avoidable incident.
Its not a problem, thats why i asked if you could watch the replay and see it properly. There was a dozen things that I (both of us) could have done to avoid the incident, but turning in and causing it certainly wasnt what happened and i knew it was clear on the replay. tbh though, it'd have been better if after realising you could have corrected the comment here, as its not a pleasant read seeing someone say you pushed their driver off, i'd spent 1am-8am the night before trying to get my PC just to boot properly as things have gone ugly in there, so it was a long day hence a chunk of repeated ranting (SO unlike me
)not to worry though, shame it had to happen cos i'd spent most of the race around z8 even without the pace car
As for the 2nd point, i have to agree in part with what your saying, but there doesnt need to be a blanket ban on mid-race protests, there just needs to be fair & impartial wording of the incident reports unless you can be certain of the case i guess.
If people ask for an incident to be reviewed, giving only the details required to locate it, then thats fine. However in the instance of your protest against me your making comments that you cant be sure of, which IMO isnt particularly fair to the other party. The review should be (and im guessing it is) of both parties, and regardless of who initiates the review the driver/s at fault are penalised where appropriate.
I also have a thing about the term 'protest', for LFSPS we dont have protests, we have incident reviews/reports, i think the terminology is fairer and not as leading as issuing a protest against someone. A protest IMO says you believe what they did is wrong, and should be dealt with, while requesting an incident be reviewed is only asking for it to be assessed.
Its the same process, friendlier terminology IMO.
"The racing surface shall be defined as the marked, paved race course and its curbing only" - There was curbing, flat curbing for at least a cars width.
Also the 1/4 overlap, thats only just acheived if you count the front splitter.
Having a look at the screenshot of the replay... theres a cars width of space there at the point of contact. He didnt need to be as tight as he was there, he'd got better traction out of the corner and could have given me more time to see he was putting himself there, as well as get further alongside me, instead he'd barely got there and we'd had very minor contact but the positioning of it on my rear cause the car to kink in his direction excentuating matters.
So technically, as warned you want me to leave a tad bit more room, well there was a cars width, how big does this tad need to be?
As i say, i know its not a penalty or something worth kicking up a huge fuss about, but im still being warned about my actions, and so far i havent read something that puts me at fault, not by your rules or anyone elses i know of. I just find it concerning, especially on the back of a ludicrous 'divebomb' comment, how much time is spent looking at things and coming to a fair outcome. Your outcome was 'leave more room" when theres a cars width of legal racing surface by your terms, and "dont divebomb" when i've just took quick avoiding measures and been unable to settle and slow the car quickly enough (i accept it was my fault for the spin, even if it was due to avoiding a lapse in their judgement).
As i see it, ive done nothing wrong, you havent highlighted something I have done wrong, and if there is something im doing wrong i'd like to know to try and avoid it in the future. I can understand advice to try and help matters (not that i took actions to make matters worse) but warning me for my actions seems rather harsh when you havent highlighted something i HAVE done which i shouldnt have. Its GTAL, im here to learn and get up to speed in this class, but i dont know of any rule in any series (Virtual or IRL) that would find me guilty of doing something wrong in that incident.
I'd rather know and try and avoid it, that continue and get punished for something i see as being quite acceptable, and when its peoples races being spoiled because im doing something im not allowed to, i dont want to be responsible for that (nor the penalty we'd get for it).
Pushed?? I didnt move an inch until he hit me, and that was only because he hit me!! Your driver hit my rear when i was holding my line as im perfectly intitled to do, i didnt suddenly move over to block him or anything, he just decided he'd take that line and rather than go cleanly he had to go door to door to do it, and it resulted in him hitting my car on the RR wheel, and it kinked right across and sending himself spinning.
If your going to complain about my driving, at least check what actually happened rather than claiming i did something i didnt do.
Please watch the replay, and watch in slow motion and you'll see i didnt move the wheel in either direction, i just held a defensive line and protect the inside, he was directly behind me, had either side as an option and HE made a decision to go that side. He chose a path where i'd intentionally left no room, thats the whole point of 'closing the door', i didnt want someone making a silly move.
So how is that my fault? I made my intentions clear, i took 1 line and only 1 line, and didnt turn the wheel until after i was hit, to counter act that contact. Your driver made all the decisions.
I also didnt change line the other half-dozen times he rammed into the back & side of me either.
That included the start where he gave me sod all space through the chicane and was at least a cars length ahead of me when the lights went green despite qualifying behind me. 
I know its not a penalty, but i dont understand why im not allowed to hold a defensive line parallel to the track. I didnt move once after straightening up, he was directly behind me, went to pass and couldnt do it without hitting a car which wasnt moving side to side or anything, and spun.
I didnt force him to pass on that side, if anything i made it clear it wasnt an option and he could have gone left where there was plenty of room which i wasnt already occupying, i just stayed where i was, i committed to a line and stuck to it, and he committed to a pass he couldnt complete cleanly.
I can take the comment on-board as advice, but a warning suggests im at fault, at fault for doing what im entitled to do, because someone wanted to make a silly pass where there wasnt room? Could you clarify what i did which is wrong, thats breaking a rule, cos im not seeing anything atm and as i see it im being issued a warning because you want to give advice. Im not really sure.
Yeah, sorry about that 3J, though im not quite sure why you think im trying to pass you there, thats rather absurd (as is the 'dont divebomb' warning).
I wasnt attempting to divebomb anyone, I might have been slightly late on the brakes, but that was simply because I was originally trying to take a normal line into the corner as there was a decent sized gap there after you and #89 got through, but the contact between you and #89 after you'd cut across his nose slowed you both down, and i had to quickly change line to avoid running into the back of #89 and was along side him, but i couldnt stop soon enough to stop for you. I just quickly tried to react to what was happening infront of me, while still braking, down-shifting and initially not get tangled up in both your cars, as it was a snap decision not knowing if you'd both spin or be fine.
It wasnt some stupid masterplan to gain 2 places from a car 2+ lengths infront of me.
I accept that i caused the incident, but equally had you not cut across lanes and hit #89 i wouldnt have had to quickly reposition myself to try and avoid getting caught up in it, and i think my car got a bit out of shape (sudden movement to avoid #89, braking and downshifting) which didnt help matters. My appologies for it though.
Anyway, if you'd held a more defensive inside line when i was trying to pass you round the outside i wouldnt have been there to 'divebomb' you
. To be honest I couldnt see him as we were side by side, i obviously knew you were there, but as i'd looked across his car was hidden by yours, hadnt realised there was a 3rd car also in there and took what i thought would be a clean 2-car-wide line, had i known i guess i'd have tried to take a wider line, you were kinda pinned in there and cant complain about the room you left on the inside or really overshooting it causing our bump.
On an unrelated matter, i thought the qualifying session was quite disappointing as a few people who couldnt give a hoot about others when they were driving around on their 'in lap'. I was doing 2+ flying laps, and twice i had potentially very good laps ruined by people deciding because they'd done their 1 flying lap then everyone else must have too.
Enjoyable race though, shame it took so many attempts to go green hehe
And your comparing who with who exactly?
This'll be fair and balanced comparison im sure
This'll be fair and balanced comparison im sure
Cawwa has already responded on this 'where on earth did you get that impression' on post #18, but here it is anyway...
You use GTAL as an example of how it would be done, come up with a total of £812 based on an estimate, then explain how it'd pay the next 12 months of NDR's fee's, repay the money NDR members have used for NDR events, and then clear as day explain that the remaining ~1/3 would be for a PRIZE FUND.
We didnt do the maths, we didnt jump to conlcusions, we followed the original post explaining exactly what this donation would be used for, and strongly objected to the part of what you guys describe would be done with that funding.
What i dont get is that for the example given, if GTAL took on that donation model, and after paying for what you say is the next 12 months costs, pays off £275 of previous bills, and leaves £225 for winnings. Right?
Well, what about Beginners Cup, LFSCART (+light), M.FBM, KyotoXXX and other 1-off events?
GTAL just paid off £600 worth of invoices and past bills, and left some winnings afterwards, if you take anything like the same approach with LFSCART which has far more rounds, then it should on a similar pricing structure generate something in the region of £1000. But you have no debts, no outstanding invoices... so those 2 would effectively put £1250 into the pot. LFSCART is the only non-beginner league, Ky250/500 is a 1-off, so where is this projected £1250 going to go? cos thats not the leftovers from donations, thats a f**kin nice chunk of money, which 2 leagues alone has produced.
Obviously £812 from GTAL is the 'if everyone' scenario, but that to me just goes to show the 'what if', you dont NEED £812 from 1 league, you need like £150 from GTAL and CART to cover what you say are your yearly costs. I would assume NDR started running leagues because you enjoy doing it, not because of any demand that you do them, but out of your personal choice. So i can understand you asking if people can help cover the costs of you guys providing a service. Im not sure about the 'pay our past debts too' part, nor the 'and with all this money we can create prizes' either.
I think its only reasonable that we help remove the financial costs involved, but i dont see why anyone should donate to create a prize money pot, there isnt a need for it, paying your bills is a need, giving away shit isnt a need, its a 'wouldnt that be nice'.
But considering the yearly cost is £300, if driver in GTAL and LFSCART paid £0.30 for each round, then you'd be at pretty much break even. That'd be £2.40 for GTAL (x2/x3 drivers), £3.00 for LFSCART per season, of 30 cars comes to £234-£306 alone. 2 leagues, all bills paid pretty much.
If of those 60 cars on the grid, only 1/4 pays, well thats 1/4 of the cost you chose to take on board to run these events. Its better than f**k all, which is how its been in the past and hasnt been an unexpected cost.
Asking for help paying bills is fine IMO, coming up with structures on what is acceptable (my terminology) as a donation, and how your would spend the excess money left over from all the donations just turns it all into a planned business strategy rather than a gesture of good will from folks.
The whole feeling of it puts me off wanting to donate that much i will say, it just doesnt feel like a 'we could do with some help if your able & willing' and turns it into a 'this is how we can pay the costs and make money to give away' from a group providing a voluntary service. Im not critisising you guys, but i dont think its a positive direction your going in.
You use GTAL as an example of how it would be done, come up with a total of £812 based on an estimate, then explain how it'd pay the next 12 months of NDR's fee's, repay the money NDR members have used for NDR events, and then clear as day explain that the remaining ~1/3 would be for a PRIZE FUND.
We didnt do the maths, we didnt jump to conlcusions, we followed the original post explaining exactly what this donation would be used for, and strongly objected to the part of what you guys describe would be done with that funding.
What i dont get is that for the example given, if GTAL took on that donation model, and after paying for what you say is the next 12 months costs, pays off £275 of previous bills, and leaves £225 for winnings. Right?
Well, what about Beginners Cup, LFSCART (+light), M.FBM, KyotoXXX and other 1-off events?
GTAL just paid off £600 worth of invoices and past bills, and left some winnings afterwards, if you take anything like the same approach with LFSCART which has far more rounds, then it should on a similar pricing structure generate something in the region of £1000. But you have no debts, no outstanding invoices... so those 2 would effectively put £1250 into the pot. LFSCART is the only non-beginner league, Ky250/500 is a 1-off, so where is this projected £1250 going to go? cos thats not the leftovers from donations, thats a f**kin nice chunk of money, which 2 leagues alone has produced.
Obviously £812 from GTAL is the 'if everyone' scenario, but that to me just goes to show the 'what if', you dont NEED £812 from 1 league, you need like £150 from GTAL and CART to cover what you say are your yearly costs. I would assume NDR started running leagues because you enjoy doing it, not because of any demand that you do them, but out of your personal choice. So i can understand you asking if people can help cover the costs of you guys providing a service. Im not sure about the 'pay our past debts too' part, nor the 'and with all this money we can create prizes' either.
I think its only reasonable that we help remove the financial costs involved, but i dont see why anyone should donate to create a prize money pot, there isnt a need for it, paying your bills is a need, giving away shit isnt a need, its a 'wouldnt that be nice'.
But considering the yearly cost is £300, if driver in GTAL and LFSCART paid £0.30 for each round, then you'd be at pretty much break even. That'd be £2.40 for GTAL (x2/x3 drivers), £3.00 for LFSCART per season, of 30 cars comes to £234-£306 alone. 2 leagues, all bills paid pretty much.
If of those 60 cars on the grid, only 1/4 pays, well thats 1/4 of the cost you chose to take on board to run these events. Its better than f**k all, which is how its been in the past and hasnt been an unexpected cost.
Asking for help paying bills is fine IMO, coming up with structures on what is acceptable (my terminology) as a donation, and how your would spend the excess money left over from all the donations just turns it all into a planned business strategy rather than a gesture of good will from folks.
The whole feeling of it puts me off wanting to donate that much i will say, it just doesnt feel like a 'we could do with some help if your able & willing' and turns it into a 'this is how we can pay the costs and make money to give away' from a group providing a voluntary service. Im not critisising you guys, but i dont think its a positive direction your going in.
I know colours dont count, im just going along with the pathetic attempts of 1-up-manship going on in here.
In terms of duplicate cars, if they're different models, both visually AND specs, or race-tuned versions, then i'd say they're fair to class as a new car.
If theres a 2.0L, 2.6L and 3.0L then thats a little ghay, but if its say a F430 in standard road spec, customer track version, and team race version, then they should be seperate IMO. Though it does seem a little pathetic if you removed all those variations of 1 car, and the 500 went down to 200, but i wouldnt expect a DTM spec Audi to be counted as one alongside its road variation.
I have to admit, i am looking forward to the photo mode, and i dont care how often the LFS Dev's say LFS isnt a screenshot generating software, i bloody wish it had it. Considering what GT4 looked like in-game, and what the photo mode could produce as a result... i'd love to have the same in LFS.
Likewise i'd like visual customisation, but in saying that, it was in Ferrari Challenge, and i barely touched it, though that could have been because it wasnt the easiest of things to use and F3 probably does it much better.
As for getting along, absolutely not!!
In GT5 we can change the colours of our cars, meaning our 800 goes to about 100430843928402384902, which suddenly becomes a much bigger number!!!
And yes, my understanding is the hop-up aspect of past is back in there, so you'll be able to tweak certain aspects of it all while still maintaining the main aspects. Dunno what F3 offers, but i doubt theres other engines you can throw in them, just power increases, weight reduction, flywheels, clutches, gear packs and whatever else there used to be in there.
Dustin, your seriously misguided!!
Content isnt cars, who cares about cars
Content isnt tracks, who cares about tracks
Content is about stickers and body kits or whatever shite they offer in Forza 3 aka 'The worlds greatest simulator EVAH!!'
Just like Next-Gen consoles are about VGA ports, DVD drives, none-standard HDD's, and all the other crap they put in there because rather than use Next-Gen hardware they could rush something out that couldnt cool itself properly and scratched its customers discs, but it made it all worthwhile cos it could get a year headstart on its rival.
THAT my friend is what next-gen is all about, rushing out last years tech and worrying about the consequences 2 years down the line, around the same sort of time you admit you knew about all those issues when you released it.
Anyway, can we please stick to the topic of this thread, its a Forza Lovin thread, lets not spoil it with people talking about GT ey, thats just unthinkable... which is exactly what Microsoft said about producing a fault-free 360
Content isnt cars, who cares about cars
Content isnt tracks, who cares about tracks
Content is about stickers and body kits or whatever shite they offer in Forza 3 aka 'The worlds greatest simulator EVAH!!'
Just like Next-Gen consoles are about VGA ports, DVD drives, none-standard HDD's, and all the other crap they put in there because rather than use Next-Gen hardware they could rush something out that couldnt cool itself properly and scratched its customers discs, but it made it all worthwhile cos it could get a year headstart on its rival.
THAT my friend is what next-gen is all about, rushing out last years tech and worrying about the consequences 2 years down the line, around the same sort of time you admit you knew about all those issues when you released it.
Anyway, can we please stick to the topic of this thread, its a Forza Lovin thread, lets not spoil it with people talking about GT ey, thats just unthinkable... which is exactly what Microsoft said about producing a fault-free 360
Ima have to agree with Cawwa (and anyone else who's said it), this isnt the league to be doing this with, for numerous reasons.
1) I hate the premise of pay to drive, i know this is 'donate if you want', but your already talking about it as a possibility and even if you werent its still 1 step closer to that, and pushing the repeated "we'd really appreciate some money" line is pretty close to requesting the money, especially if your even going to set up a pricing structure, enforced or otherwise.
2) Its a league which i was under the impression was set up kinda like a feeder series for people to gain experience, limiting it to the lower ranking drivers like myself who arent quick enough to drive in MoE/IGTC etc but still have a desire to race in such a league for fun. Throwing in the competitive element of 'and the prize money is £xxx' makes this far from Amateur, and theres more of an incentive to win races with the best drivers you'll allow than there is of letting inexperienced drivers take the wheel. If i hand my username over to bawbag, and our other n00bs do the same, its easy money.
If you do this with NDR Uber Kick-Ass League, anyone can enter and win some fancy shiz, then thats great, its fair and transparent. If you do it with restrictions on who can enter and who cant, based on the fact that they're too GOOD to compete, thats wrong, and it doesnt take a genious to see how it can be abused.
Theres plenty of projects in LFS where a simple donation option is available, and leave it to peoples generosity to assist paying for some of the unavoidable expenses, but structuring fees for a season and rounds, for teams and driver... thats stepping out of the boundary for generosity and putting emphasis on whats an acceptable donation.
Donation button - Thats perfectly reasonable
Asking for donations - Reasonable, though not that different to standing in the street with a collection bucket and jigging it as people walk past, which isnt allowed these days.
Deciding how much people should donate - Rebrand to NDR Corp.
Pricing wise, its reasonable, i cant argue its too much to ask for, but the manner in which i feel your going about it all i dont really like, no matter how bold the big red text is, personally i grew up not asking for things, maybe as a kid there was plenty of 'can i have some sweets' but i knew from a reasonable age that if i deserved something and my folks were able to provide it, then if i was lucky then i might get that. Whether it was a bike for xmas, or a small treat as daft as an ice cream.
So from my upbringing asking for something isnt really in my nature unless i have little option but to ask (I have a crapton of debt, earn an absolute pitance of 3rd world standard, and i pay that months debt off and move onto the next month without spending anything on myself, yet my folks could clear it without batting an eyelid). Im not saying its wrong to ask for help, but in this way, i find its too emphasised on guilt and pressure than honest generosity. To be clear, im not critisising anyones upbringing either, just explaining my feelings and why.
Also, drifting OT a little, all the leagues which im aware of which involved fees and/or prizes have an amazing knack of disappearing mid-season too. eRacing or whatever it was called vanished, their big selling point being you could race in the top tier league with the top drivers, and in there they have decent prizes (ofc realisticly only ~5 people had a chance!) and those drivers didnt have to pay a penny to stand a chance of winning something, and the slower drivers were the ones expected to fund it all!
oneGP (09) had plans to charge teams to enter their blatent rip-off league (description text, rules, get rich quick plan...) which the original (FSR) charges high 3-figure sums per team, and OneGP claimed to offer 4-figure prizes and announce sponsors, went strangely silent on sponsors and prizes, and then prompty disappeared after about 4-5 rounds.
It seems anything with the promise of goodies turns sour, unless the dev team are running the show.
Regardless of all that, i'd strongly advise against using any proceeds on prize money for GTAL, its your league to run how you think best, but IMO its completely the wrong league to be incentivising results and removes what makes this series different from the likes of MoE/IGTC, the opportunity for regular racers to compete without looking like complete n00bs from the top drivers, we dont need their help for that
1) I hate the premise of pay to drive, i know this is 'donate if you want', but your already talking about it as a possibility and even if you werent its still 1 step closer to that, and pushing the repeated "we'd really appreciate some money" line is pretty close to requesting the money, especially if your even going to set up a pricing structure, enforced or otherwise.
2) Its a league which i was under the impression was set up kinda like a feeder series for people to gain experience, limiting it to the lower ranking drivers like myself who arent quick enough to drive in MoE/IGTC etc but still have a desire to race in such a league for fun. Throwing in the competitive element of 'and the prize money is £xxx' makes this far from Amateur, and theres more of an incentive to win races with the best drivers you'll allow than there is of letting inexperienced drivers take the wheel. If i hand my username over to bawbag, and our other n00bs do the same, its easy money.
If you do this with NDR Uber Kick-Ass League, anyone can enter and win some fancy shiz, then thats great, its fair and transparent. If you do it with restrictions on who can enter and who cant, based on the fact that they're too GOOD to compete, thats wrong, and it doesnt take a genious to see how it can be abused.
Theres plenty of projects in LFS where a simple donation option is available, and leave it to peoples generosity to assist paying for some of the unavoidable expenses, but structuring fees for a season and rounds, for teams and driver... thats stepping out of the boundary for generosity and putting emphasis on whats an acceptable donation.
Donation button - Thats perfectly reasonable
Asking for donations - Reasonable, though not that different to standing in the street with a collection bucket and jigging it as people walk past, which isnt allowed these days.
Deciding how much people should donate - Rebrand to NDR Corp.
Pricing wise, its reasonable, i cant argue its too much to ask for, but the manner in which i feel your going about it all i dont really like, no matter how bold the big red text is, personally i grew up not asking for things, maybe as a kid there was plenty of 'can i have some sweets' but i knew from a reasonable age that if i deserved something and my folks were able to provide it, then if i was lucky then i might get that. Whether it was a bike for xmas, or a small treat as daft as an ice cream.
So from my upbringing asking for something isnt really in my nature unless i have little option but to ask (I have a crapton of debt, earn an absolute pitance of 3rd world standard, and i pay that months debt off and move onto the next month without spending anything on myself, yet my folks could clear it without batting an eyelid). Im not saying its wrong to ask for help, but in this way, i find its too emphasised on guilt and pressure than honest generosity. To be clear, im not critisising anyones upbringing either, just explaining my feelings and why.
Also, drifting OT a little, all the leagues which im aware of which involved fees and/or prizes have an amazing knack of disappearing mid-season too. eRacing or whatever it was called vanished, their big selling point being you could race in the top tier league with the top drivers, and in there they have decent prizes (ofc realisticly only ~5 people had a chance!) and those drivers didnt have to pay a penny to stand a chance of winning something, and the slower drivers were the ones expected to fund it all!
oneGP (09) had plans to charge teams to enter their blatent rip-off league (description text, rules, get rich quick plan...) which the original (FSR) charges high 3-figure sums per team, and OneGP claimed to offer 4-figure prizes and announce sponsors, went strangely silent on sponsors and prizes, and then prompty disappeared after about 4-5 rounds.
It seems anything with the promise of goodies turns sour, unless the dev team are running the show.
Regardless of all that, i'd strongly advise against using any proceeds on prize money for GTAL, its your league to run how you think best, but IMO its completely the wrong league to be incentivising results and removes what makes this series different from the likes of MoE/IGTC, the opportunity for regular racers to compete without looking like complete n00bs from the top drivers, we dont need their help for that
Guess so We'll have his name changed to Tuna Gorilla by the time S3 is released
JoJo, deal with it
Updated earlier post to include our second car, as approved by NDR.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1288705#post1288705
Both cars have the same driver names on there, it seemed pointless removing names on the #88 skin when #99 had them all, and more pointless also editing #99 for the sake of a test race. I'll fix that if its considered important enough, just seemed silly to do it if not important.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1288705#post1288705
Both cars have the same driver names on there, it seemed pointless removing names on the #88 skin when #99 had them all, and more pointless also editing #99 for the sake of a test race. I'll fix that if its considered important enough, just seemed silly to do it if not important.
I would have thought most of the issue would just be down to the weight transfering its load over the front tyres, and having nothing over the rears. I guess it depends how your driving & the corner. This would be particularly obvious in front mounted engine cars.
Applying a small amount of throttle as your turning into the corner helps address things, it'll distribute the weight more evenly and as you get comfortable with how much to apply you can even use some of that distributed weight to hold a tighter line with the car balanced to an extent that your comfortable with it. Managing the weight transfer in the slower fwd cars can in many situations find you a lot of time through later braking & continued momentum.
Im sure theres a setup tweak that can help with it, but theres a lot to be said about how you approach the situation in the car, and a settled car is a predictable car.
I'd certainly suggest looking into it before tweaking setups, understand the car better and alternative ways to take the corner, and then fix the issues, fixing the issues your creating isnt always the answer and doesnt offer the same benefits. I create enough 'issues' in RWD cars to know
Applying a small amount of throttle as your turning into the corner helps address things, it'll distribute the weight more evenly and as you get comfortable with how much to apply you can even use some of that distributed weight to hold a tighter line with the car balanced to an extent that your comfortable with it. Managing the weight transfer in the slower fwd cars can in many situations find you a lot of time through later braking & continued momentum.
Im sure theres a setup tweak that can help with it, but theres a lot to be said about how you approach the situation in the car, and a settled car is a predictable car.
I'd certainly suggest looking into it before tweaking setups, understand the car better and alternative ways to take the corner, and then fix the issues, fixing the issues your creating isnt always the answer and doesnt offer the same benefits. I create enough 'issues' in RWD cars to know
original skin was 2.2mb, this wimpy forum wont let me put in on so had to throw on some compression 
#88 skin now accompanies #99 as permitted by NDR folks, this time in sexeh GTAL blue/teal
#88 skin now accompanies #99 as permitted by NDR folks, this time in sexeh GTAL blue/teal
Last edited by PaulC2K, .
I havent been doing any of the communications, but going by the time of the lineup being posted in here, and the MSN conversation pecker pasted me from JP saying he (pecker) might be too experienced, but he'd look into it with the others... im guessing NDR have Jonesy's name, as when jonesy asked about getting involved pecker wasnt on our list of drivers interested, but pecker mentioned he wanted to do it but probably couldnt because he'd done some MoE GT2 races. At that point both names were added to the list to be looked into by NDR, and i gather both of those and myself are just waiting on those results.
I've done 2 rounds of MoE, 07/08 12h & 24h rounds, 2hr in both, and easily the slowest in both. This being the first season of the GT2 class, at a time when we already had 8+ other team drivers invested in both races and were trying to do things in-house. These days its more commonplace to borrow people to put out the strongest team, than use your own drivers to get your results, its become so competitive to do otherwise really, esp when capable teams are bailing on GT1 cos they can get success easier in GT2.
but as i say, not 100% sure, im not even aware of the correct procedure, but im pretty sure it was in JP's hands as he'd spoke to pecker about his name being on the list around 1am last night.
edit:
seems our forum has a post from 8am...
You are permitted to use all drivers on the roster for the test race unless we tell you otherwise. We will inform you of the ability of Paul Chapman, Jonathon Pickard, and Joona Laurilla within the next 48 hours.
I've done 2 rounds of MoE, 07/08 12h & 24h rounds, 2hr in both, and easily the slowest in both. This being the first season of the GT2 class, at a time when we already had 8+ other team drivers invested in both races and were trying to do things in-house. These days its more commonplace to borrow people to put out the strongest team, than use your own drivers to get your results, its become so competitive to do otherwise really, esp when capable teams are bailing on GT1 cos they can get success easier in GT2.
but as i say, not 100% sure, im not even aware of the correct procedure, but im pretty sure it was in JP's hands as he'd spoke to pecker about his name being on the list around 1am last night.
edit:
seems our forum has a post from 8am...
You are permitted to use all drivers on the roster for the test race unless we tell you otherwise. We will inform you of the ability of Paul Chapman, Jonathon Pickard, and Joona Laurilla within the next 48 hours.
Its geniune, he's wanted to compete in a series using clutch and H-box for a while without it making him completely uncompetitive. If he was allowed to at least participate in the test race, in a 2nd car (ie we'd prove our application with 4 people) then at least he can be assessed properly.
He's also not looking to do the whole season, just a race here n there. We kinda need the experience ourselves too, which is ultimately the reason were doing it, jonesy asked us to see if it was possible to compete under those circumstances, thats it.
boo-bloody-hoo, moaning about things with no sense of irony in the fact that the moaning is being done in the LFS forum, where plenty of aspects of the sim are far from accurate. If you dont like GT, then go to Forza, go to GTR, go wherever the hell you like, but why keep coming here and having a whine about anything you can think of. Its got nothing to do with expecting GT5 to be the next greatest thing, its people who like the series discussing it, and instead it turns into people wanting to hate on it because they've nowt better to be doing.
Im fairly sure around 75% of the posters in this thread have absolutely no interest in GT5, they just come in to have a look and a whine for the sake of it. Its getting rather tiresome listening to the same people creating with new things to moan about.
Leg - PD have never said they'd do damage and then not, they've always come up with an excuse not to do it, legit or not its hard to know, its always been gossip, just as it is with any other highly anticapate game. Im guessing your list will be no more accurate than the one you've started there, gossip and rumour, from whiney people when it turns out all it was was gossip and rumour.
There may have been a couple of things which were hoped for but werent possible, like online in GT4, but people like you would have moaned if it sucked, and it was never something they said would be in the final game, and sometimes that happens in the development process.
But if you can list something that they've said WOULD be in the game, as a cast iron guarantee, which wasnt, i'd be very suprised. Im sure i could match your GT missing (unofficial) features with the same for those of LFS, such as MRT6 & LX8, these things happen so deal with it and move on.
I know GT5 wont be perfect, but save the moaning about whats missing and how crap a game is thats still 5 months away from release somewhere else please.
Im fairly sure around 75% of the posters in this thread have absolutely no interest in GT5, they just come in to have a look and a whine for the sake of it. Its getting rather tiresome listening to the same people creating with new things to moan about.
Leg - PD have never said they'd do damage and then not, they've always come up with an excuse not to do it, legit or not its hard to know, its always been gossip, just as it is with any other highly anticapate game. Im guessing your list will be no more accurate than the one you've started there, gossip and rumour, from whiney people when it turns out all it was was gossip and rumour.
There may have been a couple of things which were hoped for but werent possible, like online in GT4, but people like you would have moaned if it sucked, and it was never something they said would be in the final game, and sometimes that happens in the development process.
But if you can list something that they've said WOULD be in the game, as a cast iron guarantee, which wasnt, i'd be very suprised. Im sure i could match your GT missing (unofficial) features with the same for those of LFS, such as MRT6 & LX8, these things happen so deal with it and move on.
I know GT5 wont be perfect, but save the moaning about whats missing and how crap a game is thats still 5 months away from release somewhere else please.
Hi Victor,
No such luck.
I've attached a screenshot of the difference
top window opened at 18:15.30
bottom one opened at 18:18.30
The clock time between the two is negligible, the chat is always live, and things like flag data displayed against the driver is live, however the location of the driver seems to be inaccurate.
Conveniently the screenshot gives an idea what sort of delay is there, in pic2 the 2nd placed car crosses the line and is 2.9sec behind the leader, who was about half the distance between the 2 drivers short of the S/F line in pic1. So i'd say theres around 4.5sec lost in only 180sec of the app being open.
Car movement was smooth as silk really, jittery cars was something i dont recall ever being a problem in the past (before this issue appeared), but i have been seeing it recently, however loading up the vers Void added it was smooth there also so not really much help on that respect, but it was smooth on this occasion.
On a slightly different subject, but one which might help put the blame on something unrelated to LFS's code, for the last year or so racing online has been pretty much impossible for me on many an occasion. Back in Apr-May while running a league it was impossible for me to race with others because im seeing too much lag, attempting to pass someone would be dangerous because i'd get taken out by a false prediction of their actions.
I use NetLimiter to log traffic in & out, and it tells me specificly whats going in and out of each process. LFS rarely seems to go above 2-4kbps, and from what others have said while in the same server using the same software, they're getting double that.
At any given time i know i can max my line out and get 800/50kb up/dn and I know nothing else is talking and hogging that line, nothing more than say 2kb total.
On Saturday i joined the back of the MoE's media session, got in a little late as they were 1/4 round the lap, caught them near half-way and they all disappeared, replaced by lag msg and i just sat there waiting for the server to die. ~90sec later they reappeared, i caught up slowly keeping my distance, and they disappeared when i got close. I had solid lag with just a tiny bit of fluctuation in there, all above the pink/red iirc and never dropping out of it. The replay (attached) shows everyone there, some being sent flying by my car as they slowed while i couldnt see them. Jonesy has had the same issue in the middle of MoE races at least twice, and iirc in the 12hr and 24hr rounds typically. It means you have no choice put to pit and swap drivers asap, else who knows what could happen. I think in the 24hr race we even had to guide him past our GT2 car which he obviously couldnt see, before we could get him into the pit.
I dont know if this invisable grid thing is a known bug, or whether its relevent to anything, but im putting it out there because I clearly have some issues with LFS going on, and i cant imagine what they could be. I can open ports if theres some worth trying.
No such luck.
I've attached a screenshot of the difference
top window opened at 18:15.30
bottom one opened at 18:18.30
The clock time between the two is negligible, the chat is always live, and things like flag data displayed against the driver is live, however the location of the driver seems to be inaccurate.
Conveniently the screenshot gives an idea what sort of delay is there, in pic2 the 2nd placed car crosses the line and is 2.9sec behind the leader, who was about half the distance between the 2 drivers short of the S/F line in pic1. So i'd say theres around 4.5sec lost in only 180sec of the app being open.
Car movement was smooth as silk really, jittery cars was something i dont recall ever being a problem in the past (before this issue appeared), but i have been seeing it recently, however loading up the vers Void added it was smooth there also so not really much help on that respect, but it was smooth on this occasion.
On a slightly different subject, but one which might help put the blame on something unrelated to LFS's code, for the last year or so racing online has been pretty much impossible for me on many an occasion. Back in Apr-May while running a league it was impossible for me to race with others because im seeing too much lag, attempting to pass someone would be dangerous because i'd get taken out by a false prediction of their actions.
I use NetLimiter to log traffic in & out, and it tells me specificly whats going in and out of each process. LFS rarely seems to go above 2-4kbps, and from what others have said while in the same server using the same software, they're getting double that.
At any given time i know i can max my line out and get 800/50kb up/dn and I know nothing else is talking and hogging that line, nothing more than say 2kb total.
On Saturday i joined the back of the MoE's media session, got in a little late as they were 1/4 round the lap, caught them near half-way and they all disappeared, replaced by lag msg and i just sat there waiting for the server to die. ~90sec later they reappeared, i caught up slowly keeping my distance, and they disappeared when i got close. I had solid lag with just a tiny bit of fluctuation in there, all above the pink/red iirc and never dropping out of it. The replay (attached) shows everyone there, some being sent flying by my car as they slowed while i couldnt see them. Jonesy has had the same issue in the middle of MoE races at least twice, and iirc in the 12hr and 24hr rounds typically. It means you have no choice put to pit and swap drivers asap, else who knows what could happen. I think in the 24hr race we even had to guide him past our GT2 car which he obviously couldnt see, before we could get him into the pit.
I dont know if this invisable grid thing is a known bug, or whether its relevent to anything, but im putting it out there because I clearly have some issues with LFS going on, and i cant imagine what they could be. I can open ports if theres some worth trying.
If its got tyre deformation, then it wont have a fully simulated engine with moving pistons etc
If it has a working engine, then it'll be seats which dont fully recline back
If it has seats which fully recline back, then it wont have a fluffy dice on the RV mirror...
If people want a moan they'll find something to moan about, its just that they're running out of things to moan about which says a lot about where GT5 is heading.
If it has a working engine, then it'll be seats which dont fully recline back
If it has seats which fully recline back, then it wont have a fluffy dice on the RV mirror...
If people want a moan they'll find something to moan about, its just that they're running out of things to moan about which says a lot about where GT5 is heading.
Thanks for that Void, helps me on 2 points.
1) newer version
2) saves me trying to hunt down this thread because i'd noticed issues i was having with the standalone flash version which i wasnt having with the web based version.
For some reason while watching the final IGTC round i realised that while also watching the live stream video that that was ahead of what i was seeing on the remote. There would be a crash, they'd spot the incident and you'd see an upturned car, and i could go to the remote, locate the driver, and wait to see them crash!
We're talking 45-60sec delay too, nothing like you needed to be uber quick else you'd miss it.
What made it stranger was that their was conflicting data being presented. Again, same race, i'd see people pitting which is perfectly normal, but not when they're driving down the back straight of AS4, changing left front, right front, left rear, right rear, adding fuel... So SOME data was live, yet the GPS type positional data was lagging.
I could load a remote up, let them do say 90sec driving, load up a 2nd window and the difference between them would be around 5-8sec on-track distance.
I've used the standalone version since it came out, barely use anything but that, and never before have I seen anything like this, and its still there to this moment.
Looking on this vers, and waiting 1min before loading a 2nd window, theres around a 2sec delay between both versions... yet the LFSW version isnt an issue for me.
HW:
Win7, 2.8g QC, 8gb Ram, doubt anything else would be relevent.
1) newer version
2) saves me trying to hunt down this thread because i'd noticed issues i was having with the standalone flash version which i wasnt having with the web based version.
For some reason while watching the final IGTC round i realised that while also watching the live stream video that that was ahead of what i was seeing on the remote. There would be a crash, they'd spot the incident and you'd see an upturned car, and i could go to the remote, locate the driver, and wait to see them crash!
We're talking 45-60sec delay too, nothing like you needed to be uber quick else you'd miss it.
What made it stranger was that their was conflicting data being presented. Again, same race, i'd see people pitting which is perfectly normal, but not when they're driving down the back straight of AS4, changing left front, right front, left rear, right rear, adding fuel... So SOME data was live, yet the GPS type positional data was lagging.
I could load a remote up, let them do say 90sec driving, load up a 2nd window and the difference between them would be around 5-8sec on-track distance.
I've used the standalone version since it came out, barely use anything but that, and never before have I seen anything like this, and its still there to this moment.
Looking on this vers, and waiting 1min before loading a 2nd window, theres around a 2sec delay between both versions... yet the LFSW version isnt an issue for me.
HW:
Win7, 2.8g QC, 8gb Ram, doubt anything else would be relevent.
lol @ the fact that a glorified gameboy doesnt have uber realistic physics
GT is a sim, just like Forza and Shift, this is what i dont get about people complaining about console games not being sims. The problem is they dont simulate things to a deep enough level that its true to life.
Nobody here can say that LFS is true to life, and yet we call it a sim without batting an eyelid about it.
Just a soundbite from Wikipedia:
"Simulation is the imitation of some real thing, state of affairs, or process. The act of simulating something generally entails representing certain key characteristics or behaviours of a selected physical or abstract system."
Thats exactly what these games do, however the depth and accuracy is always going to be completely different, and for the games mentioned at the top, they're designed to appeal to a broad market, whereas LFS & iRacing try and be as close to real as they can acheive.
As for pricey, it would have been cheaper to buy a PS3 slim or otherwise, to act as a media center, rather than go out and buy a media pc case and the gubbins to go into it, which you've since given up on. Considering the money you've spent on gfx cards, consoles are comparatively a bargin. Not so if you only want it for 1 game, but considering you bought the media pc as a media pc, which the PS3 is capable of doing, yet you paid slightly more for the PC... so you would have been quids in.
Christ, are you 5?
Either grow up or find a forum with other childish people and go nuts on there instead.
Clearly these forums arent for you if you cant stand half the people having something positive to say about anything, what a depressing life you must lead if people being positive is a bad thing. Someone clearly just needs a hug!
what a fulfilling life you must lead.
Still doesnt explain why you feel you need to make such a statement, when your surrounded by people who make the exact same statements about LFS. Its as if you expected something different... so why so suprised?
Its just a pointless statement about something because you want to moan, im not sure how thats better than a load of people expressing enthusiasm for something in a thread discussing that matter, it isnt in a thread discussing how to end world hunger, what exactly where you expecting, complaints? or is that just what you WANTED to find?
Still doesnt explain why you feel you need to make such a statement, when your surrounded by people who make the exact same statements about LFS. Its as if you expected something different... so why so suprised?
Its just a pointless statement about something because you want to moan, im not sure how thats better than a load of people expressing enthusiasm for something in a thread discussing that matter, it isnt in a thread discussing how to end world hunger, what exactly where you expecting, complaints? or is that just what you WANTED to find?
While LFS players are completely different?
I find it funny that people feel the need to make pathetic comments about a group of people they dont know, because amongst them some people do something which is actually commonplace in so many things, as if its just 1 group who act in this way. I bet if we went through your forum history there would be at least 1 example of you sucking LFS c*ck, but because someone makes 1 comment about it, and many other people make the same comment, its a mass insecurity. If thats the case, this whole forum is the breeding ground of insecurity.
If multiple people want to express their opinion, whats the harm, its not the same person forcing their opinion on everyone, so if you want to bitch to a handful of people who express their excitement about something, theres plenty of threads on this forum to keep you busy for a lifetime, so go bother them instead of being an boring ass in here.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG