Quote from Bladerunner :

/me is here!!!

Man Utd .. all TWELVE OF THEM.. (Players plus teh REF!!) were lucky!
Chelski...All NINE of them (Drogba and Joe Cole seemed to forget there was a game on last night!) were bloody unlucky!
Avram Grant is a NOB, not a n00b...there is always hope for a n00b! (Any other comments may result in accusations of anti-Semitism)
In the same situation, (1 kick to win the biggest prize in Euro club football) there is no player I would want to see take it more than JT..He IS a legend, prolly the best skipper Chelsea have had since Chopper or Wisey ( and I DO remember Butch Wilkins as Chelsea captain!)

@Pearcy.. You AND family and mates in a pub watching the game? Didnt know you was from SURREY!!! (Only place I know with that many ManUre supporters in one place!)

FIFA Rulebook amendment..It is now acceptable to try and kick a player in the head while he is:
a) STANDING!!
and b) In the penalty area!
Any ref spotting this action should wave 'play-on' and definitely NOT send off golden-balls Ferdinand for Dangerous Play.
This same ref must at all times be accompanied by assistants that have absolutely NO knowledge whatsoever concerning what constitutes a CORNER and what is a GOAL KICK.

Quick reminder to everybody..it was the same ref that allowed a goal against Chelsea when the ball had not crossed the line (vs Liverscouse a couple of years ago!)

Happy now Bogey?

Well said Blade, thank god some people accept defeat rather than going all bitter and blaming everyone else.
Some lesser people would blame the referee, claim they were the better team despite having only 1 shot on target in 120 minutes, which was put on a plate for them.
Chin up ey!

Over £300m on players, the biggest game in the clubs history, and just 1 shot on target. Thats the stuff European champions are made of that is.

btw, those rules you outlined they are in rulebook, seriously!
Look up crowding the referee every time theres a decision to be made, and its okay if your in a Chewsee shirt, and then look at the rule below it, thats it right there! infact, if you look underneith the Utd rule, theres also the rule about chewsee being fine to hoof the ball from one end of the pitch to the other letting it go out for a throwing near the goal line (twice! despite Utd playing the first one straight to A.Coles feet) but the instance someone else does it, its okay to all crowd and bully him.
Theres plenty of these rules which nobody ever seems to notice isnt there, its like the one about Liverpool being fine to field crap (intentionally crap ) teams before big games if it means sod all to them, regardless of the fact that it has major significance to the team being given the 3pts. 2 seasons, Fulham have been saved from relegation on the last day of the season, the 3pts picked up against a weakend Scouse side kept them in the Premiership, but the rules say its perfectly okay, not unfair to the other teams they've actually made an effort against, and we all get on with it.


I dont know why, but part of me (the stupid parts i guess) kinda feel sorry for Chelsea, they played a fairly entertaining game instead of their traditional boring snoozefest game, they had their chances to win the game, and nobody deserves to lose on penalties, particularly in the way it happened... But a far larger part of me says good, i hate the Scousers considerably more, and i can admire Arsenals play (when they're not fouling people), but Chelsea play intentionally dull football, but at least both of them (LFC & AFC) got to where they are through their own success on the pitch, like United, and not through someones open checkbook in a way that is effectively cripling the club because it'll never be able to manage itself if the checkbook suddenly closed. Madrid are the same, having their debts wiped constantly and land being freely given to the club to train on, then a few years later conveniently being bought back at a stupidly inflated rate, magically giving them a huge profit.
There are significant elements of the way United is run which i hate as a ST holding manc, but the wages account for ~50% of the profit made just like all but a few of Prem teams (Chelsea & Newcastle being 2) and players purchased are done so from competition money, tv money, and ticket sales.... no different to any other traditional club. Maybe a lot of our success is bought, but its bought with our (utd) money, made from our success.

O/T:
Isnt it funny how United fans were up in arms when the Glazers wanted to buy United, borrow hundreds of millions while putting in a fraction of the money themselves, and once purchased, moving the debt off their heads and into the clubs name instead, putting a hugely profitable club (£20m/yr profit, after signings etc) into hundreds of millions of debt. FA's fair and proper check says thats all fine and dandy.
Ticket prices went up over 50% in the first 2 years, the 2nd year of which all ST holders were forced to purchase tickets for EVERY competitive home game, if they didnt want it, they could sell the ticket on a somehow legalised ticket touting website the club would profit off.
United fans, still not happy with their owners.

Liverpool fans welcome anyone they're stupid enough to wave a few quid at, ploughing debt into their club. FA's fair and proper check says thats smashing.
Both owners soon start slagging each other off, refusing to agree on transfers & policies, create unrest within the club, and it generates plenty of negative publicity about them.
Liverpool fans apparently arent too impressed with their wonderful owners these days.

Man City fans start partying when someone comes along claiming to be putting millions into transfers, CL football and everything else they're stupid enough to believe. FA's fair and proper check doesnt mind the reports of the abuse of human rights, nor the fact that his finances had been frozen due to corruption charges.
Shinawatra has laughably claimed to be bringing in Ronaldinho in the summer, is all set to sack their most successful manager since the premiership began, and has basically put the whole squad up for sale and plenty of their players are more than happy to get the heck out. Solicitors still havent recieved payments for the clubs purchase almost a year ago, and no real money has been spent on players despite claims of tens of millions in the kitty.
City fans apparently feel differently about their new owners.


Its a funny game isnt it, you just cant help some people, its only when the reality hits home of what you've actually stood by and allowed to be done to YOUR club, that you realise what a prat you've been.

Quote from The Moose :

There's not many footy haters in this thread to be fair, just Man Utd haters

I guess there are a lot of people like that, who's team is incapable of mounting a realistic challenge for the league title, and have been 'turning the corner' so many times they're getting dizzy.

Quote from The Moose :

The last thing i want to see is the cup going south!

Around 35 miles west of Manchester will be sufficient

Here here! Wouldnt it be great seeing Phil Neville lifting a major trophy at Goodison!

Last edited by PaulC2K, Fri 23 May 2008, 00:19.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

I found my new talent, watching the game with my mates I called every single penalty, I said hit or miss before they kicked. I got it 100% right too, I said if Ronaldo missed then Terry is definately going to miss, and Anelka just looked like a mess and full of nerves when he stepped up. I think Ronaldo needs to stop that stupid double run up when taking penalties, all the best pen takers blast it into the bottom corner, no nonsense.

Before he took the penalty i was PLEADING with him to take his double run up. Every penalty i can remember him taking he's done that, and then this season, then against West Ham he didnt do it, Green knocks it away, Barcelona - it goes wide. Those are the only 2 times i can remember Ronaldo ever taking a 'conventional' style penalty, for the last 5 years in United or Portuguese colours, he's ran, paused, looked for the keepers reaction, and stuck it into a corner.
So dozens scored with the method, one saved.... i'd hardly call it unsuccessful, and it hasnt let him down before, and he's taken plenty of big penalties, incl one that knocked England out of Euro 06. He can keep taking them ahead of every other Utd player for my money, he doesnt shirk the responsibility, he's so full of himself he doesnt for one second seem to think he could miss, and scores them far more often than a keeper saves or he misses, and how many times have you seen players making that walk and you know they're heads screwed up under the pressure.

not a hope in hell, give him 3 more season and 3 more doubles, then he'll quit.
I supposed you'll still be turning the corner by then, round and round in circles getting nowhere

1 shot on target, coming from a 35 yard shot which was deflected twice, before becoming a sitter for Fwank 'It went in of the defender on the way in' Lampard.... robbed, absolutely robbed. Poor old chewseee

Quote from fujiwara :

Its because football is not math - real science -, tell us what you felt when the bar rebounded the ball in the overtime

My guess is he felt a damn sight better than half the people here when Terry hit the post


I thought the pitch was still shocking, it was pretty clear to see from most players close ball control that it was rather unpredictable at times, with the odd bobble and that spoiled a lot of the football that could have been on display.

Still, I thought it was a very good game, United should have been 3-0 up and buried the game in the first 30-35min, then a pair of bad deflections and Lampard the deflection maestro himself seems to find the ball at his feet and VDS crawling all over the floor just let them back into the game for half time when it should have been done & dusted, name on the trophy time.
2nd half was all Chelsea for the first 30min, United came back in the latter stages. 2 posts hit, bit of a lucky escape, but then so is having your CM being stupid enough to hit shots straight at the goalie, maybe he couldnt see him in his fluorescent orange top?
Terry getting his noggin onto a toe-poked shot from Giggs again saved them, but it ended with penalties.
I dont think theres anyone who likes them, they go hand in hand with play-acting, shirt tugging and ref crowding as things that are sh!t about footie.

Im suprised only 1 was missed, and 2 were saved out of the 14 taken, there were definately a couple from the Utd lot i had my doubts about (infact, probably all but Ronaldo!).

It was a shame about the scrap at the end of injury time, frankly that whole incident was an embarrasment, twice Utd kicked the ball out to touch for injuries while in possession and a right to play on, both times Chelsea hoofed the ball down the other end of the field for a throw in. Chelsea kicked the ball out twice, the first time (the 2nd time in the game it'd been kicked out for injuries) United gave the ball back, was passed along the ground to iirc A.Cole's feet, the second time (4th in the game) Tevez knocks the ball out for a throw in, about 5-10 yards from where the throw-in was taken. Apparently thats not the sporting thing to do, and Tevez should be harrassed and shoved about?
For me, Ballack should have been booked, and as wrong as what Drogba did, and the rules back up the red card, for me it wasnt as bad as Ballacks actions because he came running in as the 2nd man shoving Tevez and sparked the whole incident. I really dont like Drogba, probably in the same way many dont like Ronaldo, for the play acting, his ability to out-muscle some of the best defenders in the world yet be made of polystyrene when he gets a tap, and his 'everyone is against me' look when the ref see's it all (as i say, very little difference to plenty of footballers, incl Ronaldo), but i feel sorry for him, it was a stupid thing to do, done in the heat of the moment, all out of the insistance that Utd dont copy Chelsea's attitude of 'go fetch this' for a sporting gesture.


I dont think Chelsea did enough to claim they were the best team, they had good spells and times when they looked disinterested, they had some luck in the equaliser, and 2 shots unfortunate to hit the post. I also dont think United can claim they were the better team, similar story, different halves. A well worked goal and 3 clear chances to put the ball away, shot straight at a Chelsea player.

I'd have taken the result over the performance, as anyone would, but it was nice to actually see a fairly decent game of football between the 2 sides (or any other game incl Chelsea) because they have a tendancy to drain them of entertainment and bore out games. Thankfully there was very little of that.

I have no care in the world for Chelsea, before RA they were fine when they were winning the odd FA Cup etc, since he turned up id quite happily see them lose, they cant really finance what they're doing, and i dont like that aspect (incidentally, i'd have been reasonably happy for Arsenal to win the league, they play football how it should be played... most of the time), but its a sh!t way to lose out in such a big occasion, nobody deserves that, and even though he can be a cnut at times, it was hard on JT, i wonder if he'll be hounded and blamed like Beckham was for his identical penalty slip which saw England go out


Pearcy you JLC, Chelsea & Arsenal bonfire?.... deary me. What next? 'if you hate Tottenham clap your hands'?

I havent had a solid sleep pattern for at least 5 years, dont have a fixed job so do as i please really, if it wasnt for going to ze football (CHAMPIONS!! AGAIN!) i'd probably be living on 28hr days, like 20hrs awake, 8hrs sleep, but the footie always gets in the way especially when Sky insist on switching games to noon (we've had maybe 15 home 3pm Saturday KO's in the last 3-4 years, couple seasons back we had 2 in 1 year! f*ck tradition for uncle ruppert).

I just suck myself into doing something even when I know I dont really have time for it and should be doing something im being paid to do, and I wonder why im always skint (even 'skint' seriously doesnt do it justice!). Ickle duckiepoos' is worth it though

Just for you duckiepoos...

Not 1, but 2 helmets, based on that design, but tweaked a little bit and some creative license added in there. I didnt like the green & yellow with the red & blues, it felt a little too much with so many vivid colours, so i went with just red and blues and then incorporated a little more aussie flag into the design (colours & stars), and then just as i was finished, and hitting the SIX hour mark, i decided i'd tweak it a little more and did an Aussie themed helmet to match the Aussie style Mercury FOX skin, swapping the reds for yellow & green which i'd earlier removed.

So, from 00:23, to 07:13 , without any break... not exactly quick work i know, and probably should have been spent doing various other things (not least sleeping!) but its still worth every sec for you mr duckiepoos
Now if only i could make a decent looking helmet for myself hmm.... nicked

oh, i also have an alternative top section, with the line/mesh similar to the original design, and i can still tinker with the colours so they're like the original design if need be.

Im pretty sure that anyone wanting to take part in the whole project still can, but they should go through the appropriate channels, and if they do want more people then they'll be accepted, if they dont want more testers then they wont appreciate unapproved and unknown people signing up.

Maybe they're fine with everyone knowing, but without knowing their feelings on it id say its best not to post this info, its one thing to acknowledge the arrival of something to do, but posting info sent to specific people should be avoided IMO (and also going off previous private beta groups, whether this specific task is public or private i dont know).

Better safe than sorry, dont want to get kicked out for something silly, could be some very exciting things ahead

You'll go far in the beta testing scene handing out Beta information like that, at Sony EU (and the others i'd imagine) you'd get kicked out without a seconds pause for something careless/thoughtless like that.

You dont find it a little stupid to start posting beta information into a public forum?

well what a joke of a race that was!
Whats the point of sending out a pace car who:
1) Falls asleep
2) Slows everyone down then parks up midway round the track
3) Slows everyone down again, then drives straight off the track at T1
4) Slows everyone down again, then tells the person who's crashed to shift+s and then drives into the pits with the hazard lights still flashing?

Absolute joke, completely ruined 90min of race, on top of the 1hr spent messing about because of the disorganisation beforehand. We highlight theres only 21 people and were in 2 servers, who cares. Then with 2min left of qual its 'oh, lets all go into the same server'.

80min of decent racing ruined because you insist on having these stupid rules which dont do anything but ruin peoples races. No organisation, no sense.

Thanks for wasting 3hrs of my day.

its good for everyone else, that help?

Hey Reinier,

Dunno if you ever did pop into our server while we were on there as suggested, thats about the only way anyone is likely to be able to judge someone unless they're reputation kinda speaks for itself etc.

I dont think theres any harm in initially requesting only contact from decent & established teams, theres far too many 4 week teams in LFS, here today gone tomorrow. The established teams have a proven track record, and if your a capable driver used to driving in the big events like MoE then joining a new team with no history or reputation means you've got very little chance of getting invited into MoE. In about 3 weeks time we (Mercury) willl have been in LFS for 4 years, these days its an acheivement lasting the first year and i can fully understand people wanting to move to a team which is settled, thats not to say a new team cant make it, its just got the hardest part ahead of it, rather than behind it thats all.

Good luck finding someone that meets your level dedication Koopa, im pretty sure you'll find plenty who are willing to take a look at you, dunno if Jonesy ever got round to that or not, but im sure you'll be settled in somewhere in no time.

PaulC2K

If Peckers in, i guess i better join in too

Quote from the_angry_angel :

Not cheap, if you licence it correctly:
http://www.tcadmin.com/

cant even come up with domainname without re-hashing someone elses, so chances of that are slim
imitation & flatery and all that, 2nd person in 6 months.

The thing is, theres 1 or 2 idiots demanding the moon and the stars, and theres a handful of people requesting something quite sensible, and yet everyone insists on arguing with the morons and claiming its crazy, yet conveniently ignoring the valid points.

4096 is stupid, at least with current technology.
2048 is easily possible, is unarguably clearer than 1024, can be easily compressed to fit existing limits (400kb) without any damaging effect, and has been the norm for skin makers for the last 2-3 years.


Some will argue 'you should be focusing on driving not worrying about pretty skins', but why? What difference does it make, if you cant/wont tell the difference then does it harm you any? Your not being forced to download even higher res skins. The arguement which nobody has yet been able to answer is WHY NOT. It doesnt harm anyone, it doesnt cost more to provide it, its easy to make a significantly clearer looking 2048 skin within the limits of LFSW's 1024@400kb limits, so why cant these be used if people want to use them, it certainly makes 'Hi Res Skins' accurate, seeing as 1024 is hardly that.

So sod the idiots who want 4096, ignore them like every idiot who asks for Ferrari's and the ring in LFS, the thread got started on the request of 2048 skins and very few people have exceeded that, yet plenty of people are latching onto that as a reason why its stupid... but frankly, what harm does it do to anyone if they allowed 4096 skins anyway? Is anyones gaming experience destroyed by what someone else see's? If theres an actual negative reason for something being implemented, then i'd expect people to point it out for the good of the game, however when people argue against something because it doesnt suit them, then i'd class them as bigger muppets than those wanting 4096 skins, the might want something unrealistic, but at least they have reason for their request rather than what seems to be nothing short of envy or being single minded.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Slicks 'n Slide > All, tbh

We have a winner folks!
Slicks n Slide, without a doubt the greatest top down racer. Generally is good, but it just doesnt have the simplicity that S'n'S had, but seeing as that was made in the days of DOS and not Windows, its a great substitute, but that game gave me years of happyness.
I was looking for this game just the other week, wondering just how long ago it was, and it all just came flooding back. In reality its a really basic game, nothing complicated about it compared to the work put into some games today, and thats the beauty of it, its just clean simple fun.
What a game

Dont suppose anyone else has Pixeljunk Racer? afaik its PS3 exclusive (dont think its on XBL) but its quite a fun little title. Its more like Scalextric with lane changing (your car follows a set lane until you switch lanes) and theres about 20 different game modes which are quite hectic. My favourite being fairly simple, the more AI cars you overtake the faster you cars speed becomes, theres no stop/reverse in the game, only forward and varying faster speeds, and as your car gets faster and faster your pretty much looking half a lap ahead of yourself to see whats coming in order to have any hope of reacting to it in time to not hit them. As soon as you hit an AI car (theres loads of them, going slow, and only change lanes to overtake, so they're fairly predictable) you're 'overtake' counter resets as does your speed, after about 90sec the timer runs out and next hit ends the game, where-as normally you'd go back to slow speed.

Its a fun game, reminds me of the fun i had when top-down racing was about all you had, and the simplicity of the concept with different styles of racing modes makes it great fun, esp with a few mates round.

Seems im not the only Brit staying up to wait for eps of Lost

Season 4 has been a bit mixed for me, every single episode has been fantastic, and i have little doubt they're probably the best run of episodes in an established series there has ever been, 6 top quality eps which leave you completely satisfied yet desperately wanting more.
At the same time, its quite disappointing that were at season 4 and its taken this long to get consistantly kick-ass episodes on the show. I can only assume they felt the slower the story moved the longer they could run with things, and then maybe with the viewing figures and reviews starting to dip with season 2 & 3 people just got fed up with a story which wasnt look like it was going anywhere, and now they've realised they cant take the viewer for granted. Who knows, but whatever the reason thank god its come.

Pecker, Sky are 3 days behind, US air it at 3am GMT on Friday, Sky show it Sunday @ 9pm. Going OT for a moment, i personally believe if there wasnt such a delay between when an episode is aired in different territories, then most people wouldnt bother downloading the show. The only people losing out are the broadcasters who lose viewers which costs them in advertising. Sky showing the same episode only 66hrs after its aired in the US is definately a step in the right direction, and hopefully it'll continue. As far as i know Heroes hasnt even started Season 2 in the UK (unless one of the smaller stations has it, as they did until the Beeb picked it up), yet that aired in the states almost 5 months ago!


As for '24'.... what a show! Its pure crack broadcast in 1hr episodes
I plan on going through the DVDs and watching them all through again, i did the first season in 4 days (8eps in first sitting, intended on going to bed at midnight and watching the first ep, and somehow it was 6am before i managed to stop myself). Hopefully i'll get through all 6 eps before 7 starts, assuming Kiefer is out of the slammer now naughtly Jack

seems i got disconnected, and apparently im already online

Just posting to say we eventually got it fixed, after a lot of hair pulling and a crap load of help from Victor
Seemed to be an issue with lfs.exe processes, some failed processes were running and while they definately werent using insim ports we tried at later stages, they did seem to clear up once we killed all lfs processes and restarted them one by one.

Last edited by PaulC2K, Sat 1 Mar 2008, 09:53.

ok, terminated the EU1 server process, and restarted it.
Deactivated the insim relay connection, and restarted that also.

Im currently getting 'Connect attempt #' but no number saying which attempt its currently on out of the 15 it does. I'd assume that really it shouldnt take more than 2min to make the connection, im sitting in the server so i know its live, however it does seem something else is getting in the way.

Is it possible for other ports to be blocking this communication?

funnily enough about 5min ago i figured it couldnt harm any to have both, still not making much of a difference

taa:
I actually C&P'd the line from your guide, i have:


I think rooble added line 2, and 3&4 i added just a few minutes ago and have restarted iptables.

i'll kill the processes and restart them, incase that makes a difference (ive no idea) but currently its not having any effect. I'll report back in about 5min

I've been having problems trying to setup the insim relay, and im just drawing blanks.

IP = xx.xxx.xx.xxx
Port = 29991 (also 29992 & 29993, server ports are 63401-63403 )
insim details are included in iptables

etc

cfg files have /insim=[port number] and ive been in and entered them manually too.

Currently it just says 'Updating...'
However a few hours ago it was 'Connect attempt #' (no number)
and eventually becoming dead once its fed up trying.

Anyone know of something else i can try? Im only just getting used to linux and slowly picking up things, but as far as we can tell (rooble & myself) everything seems correct, but obviously something isnt right somewhere. Been trying alsorts for the last 5hrs, getting nowhere fast.
Hoping to get the servers visable to LFS Remote for the LFS World Series event in.. 16hrs time

Quote from DaveWS :

The XRR and FZR however are very well balanced now in endurance races. The XRR uses less fuel, and is slightly easier on the tyres than the FZR. The FZR now must use R3's to last a reasonable number of laps, which slows the car down obviously in the corners.

I cant say with any certainty whether or not the XRR needs R3s or if it can manage R2's for a worthwhile distance, so i dont know how it'd compare. The FXR its already been said that definately needs harder tyres on the front, whether thats R3/R2 or R4/R3 i dont know. But from the bit of testing ive done with the GT2 XRR the tyres dont go too far, they're staying much more consistant but the R2's seem to be more of a sprint distance tyre than endurance, so it could be that R3 will become the endurance drivers choice of tyre, which IMO it always should have been, the R2s should be designed for short races, R3s for medium length, and R4s for extreme distances.


Dark Elite:
Im not sure those comments come from any official statement, personally they sound like an opinion, just like me saying R2s are for sprint races, R3s for endurance & R4's if your stupid, it sounds like their take on the situation rather than intentionally making the car so slow its uncompetitive beyond a doubt.


Whether the WIKI info is accurate (to the dev's opinion) or someones personal opinion (pretty much the whole communities opinion probably), IMO there shouldnt be a 'learner' car in any class, if people havent learnt to cope with the bigger cars, then they have the baby GTRs till then, theres no logic in intentionally making a crap car so people can learn to drive the other 2 properly, so for that reason i dont really buy into it being intentionally uncompetitive.
Creating the FOX as a simplified & tamed FO8 i can understand as they're considerably different to what was offered before S2, just as the XFR & UFR or TBOs ease people into FZ5/RAC or GTR cars, but making a signficiantly slower car within a class is backwards, a class should be designed to be different but reasonably equal.
The RB4 isnt the sacrificial car for the TBO class, why would the FXR be?
Also, considering the GTR cars are what the top level series are using to showcase talent, and i suspect thats the developers intentions for it too, it seems bizarre to have such a weak link in there, granted they're the ones who've made it so weak and dont seem to care about fixing that aspect, but i think everyone would rather have 3 closely matched cars (taking everything into account in the process) than what we have now, which is 2 reasonably matched cars and a n00b car. I dont expect it to be a race winner, but it should at least be competitive rather than it pootling around. Drivers should be required to ask themself a question before picking which car to use, do you play it safe and see if it pays off, or go for broke and run the risk of making that small mistake and losing. Thats not what goes through any drivers mind right now, currently its a case of do you want to come last or race with people.

As i say, i dont know what there is to back up those WIKI comments, if they're fact or just common opinion, but it sounds bonkers and nothing like what *i'd* have thought the developers would have intended, like they've over-compensated for it being easy to drive. If it is their opinion, its laughable, and disregards everything ive seen them do in almost 5 years of playing LFS. Its an unloved, unwanted & unbalanced car and its sitting in the main class pretty much going to waste.

The FZR is about 1.5sec a lap faster round AS6, roughly, and being generous too i think.

If the extra pit-stop time is +60sec (fairly reasonable for 4 tyres & full juice-up at most tracks) then the FZR can make that up entirely within 40 laps. So unless the race is between 37 & 40 laps, the FXR must pit, and its pretty much undebatable from that point onwards.
Lap 27 - FZR has a 40sec lead, just before pit #1 (+60)
Lap 28 - FXR is now 18.5 sec ahead
Lap 37 - FXR has a 5sec lead, just before pit #1 (+50, less fuel)
Lap 38 - FZR now leads by 46.5sec
Lap 54 - FZR now leads by 1:10.5 before pit #2 (+60)
Lap 55 - FZR still leads, despite extra pitstop, by 12 sec.

So, if thats correct (it's certainly going to be pretty close), it suggests the FXR doesnt have a hope in hell of beating a FZR unless the race ends moments after the FZR needs to pit. So if it cant beat it over 40 laps, how the hell can anyone expect it to provide competitive racing in shorted length races?? Its just crazy.
Infact, im comparing qualifing type laps, what the FZR & FXR *can* do, ignoring the fact that to get to 37 laps the FXR needs to bolt on harder tyres making it only slower. I've also be generous with the 10sec difference for the comparatively insignificant difference in fuel loading times (2-3sec max), but still the is shown to be a useless option for people wanting to be competitive. If you dont care about being competitive, fair enough, but it seems most people do care but cos they're not bothered about driving it they're not fussed, 'sod em'.


Repeating my previous comments on Fuel economy and its worth as a negative point for the FZR....
Fuel consumption is pretty much an false & misleading statistic, the cars kill they're tyres sooner than they burn through a tank of fuel, so while its more thirsty it currently isnt a limiting factor. So fuel doesnt play a role in strategy, the only thing it effects is car weight and refueling time.
The capacity of all the GTRs is 100 Litres so the weight is the same no mater what car they're in, 1% is an identical measure in the class.

In Patch X:
The FXR/XRR needed about 55-60% to go the distance the R2's allow, thats 57.5 litres.
The FZR needs 70% for the same distance, ignoring whether the tyres can take it that far (probably close, but just short). The weight of 10-15% extra fuel might help the XRR keep up, but the FXR might as well not bother, its a tiny drop in the ocean.
If the R3's werent so slow then maybe they'd be an option, but you lose far more time wearing them than you actually gain by carrying a full tank (also slowing you down slightly)

Unless Y has serious changes where the R3s make a frequent appearance for endurance racing, and the FXR & FZR can utilise the empty 40-45% space in the tank, while the FZR only has 30% in there, then things wont have changed all that much.
I think it'll take a while before things truely settle down after the updates, but you can bet you backside its as unbalanced as ever.

Last edited by PaulC2K, Fri 28 Dec 2007, 03:45.

Part of the reason they're 'identical' in their stats is probably down to the fact that the class would be based on a series set of rules, they'd have tight restrictions on every important aspect of the cars design. The other classes of cars are meant to be say a collection of road car which happen to be evenly matched but arent intended to be closely matched in construction. The race cars are basically designed around the rules of a ficticious series, they'll have a limits they'd have to fit into, and thats done to keep the cars evenly matched while the build & spec of the car is done by the individual teams rather than a fixed car (F1 compared to A1GP, or WTCC to Clio cup).
Thats my take on it at least, its obviously not pure co-incidence they're near identical on power/weight stats, so it makes sense to assume they'd be ficticious regulations placed on their class.

Has anyone done a reasonable number of laps in the FZR yet, say 30min straight run or longer? I'll admit i havent, however the car makes a horrendous noise now, maybe its purely the gearbox, but it instantly reminded me of the popcorn days when the engine is on its way out, a noise ive not heard (or dont recall hearing) since S1 came along.
Now, with an important 24hr race coming up in... 3wks, the last thing i wanna see is half the field drop out, and i say that as someone driving an XRR, so im hoping thats just the crappy noise everyone has to put up with, i think that alone should help an XRR win personally, wouldnt wanna listern to that for ~6hrs thats for sure! Its definately not n00bish gearshifting, but i can definately hear it popping away like a mofo.


R.Kolz:
Couldnt agree more on the fact that the cars should be balanced for sprint racing, i remember hearing all the chatter YEARS back about how the various cars were being balanced, how big testing sessions between the devs & testers were being held in endurance races, and wondering WTF they're doing that for. I *love* endurance racing, but i'd wager that maybe 1 in 10,000 races last longer than 60min, and thats how these cars are supposedly being balanced. We're on attempt #3 with the GTR's, still looking completely hopeless, the TBO's a bit better, and i really wonder what goes on in these tests.
For my estimated 1:10,000th race, let the organisers balance the cars as they see fit, in MoE they've been self-balancing for years, awarding different cars a different set of points to try and even things out. So clearly it doesnt work for Endurance racing all that great to begin with. Now their characteristics can be modified manually it should be left to the organisers to enforce their own rules on what is fair, while the other 9,999:10,000 races are ran over 5 laps where the cars are equally quick round a track straight out of the box, sod the fact that one car sucks a tiny bit more fuel over an hour, it makes no difference when the typical race is over within 15min, so 'balanced' it isnt, and thats why nobody in their right mind drives the FXR or XRR in a random server if they actually care about where they finish.
Personally, i couldnt care less about public racing, havent joined a random server for months, possibly over a year (certainly feels like it), they dont interest me a jot, but im not ignorant enough to think they're not where a considerable majority of people spend their time and blissfully ignore it. I'd prefer they were perfectly equal over a few hours, but just like i'd suggest its tough for drifters wanting things perfect for them, they're in the minority and just a small aspect of LFS's community and why its popular. Still, i'd settle for them being balanced any way possible, it'd make a nice change.

phew, i knew this hosting lark was pretty demanding, but i was a little worried if people felt we'd appeared and disappeared within ~3wks and hadnt even officially open the doors as such hehe.

so why not bump bertie up?
I thought that was the point of people 'grassing' up demo folk who dared to so much as mention a licence car