Yes, until that option is abused just like the force cockpit view was and no one can play LFS unless they have a clutch pedal until that 'fad' goes away after half a year.
I'm not the only one, I'm defending everyone that doesn't use the cockpit view 24/7 because some of us don't have the graphical power to want to deal with cockpits seeing it kills FPS by almost 25%.
As for costing money.. no I'm not kidding, do you really want to start a thread to see how many people can afford $200+ worth of equipment? Because I'm telling you a vast majority can't.. and another percentage can.. but would prefer not to spend that much money.
Do you realize what anyone can do with $200?
As for being unfair.. I fail to see how this is legit in so many places, there are so many leagues.. for example the biggest, SCCA, not all cars have H gate shifters.. some have padels, do you see the guys having to do the real shifting complain? Maybe.. but do they care? Not really, no. Why? Because it costs a lot to have padel shifters in a car, not to mention it's heavy.
So.. instead of forcing something.. why not limit the other?
Like.. I dunno, a 50kilo weight penalty or so?
As for costing money.. no I'm not kidding, do you really want to start a thread to see how many people can afford $200+ worth of equipment? Because I'm telling you a vast majority can't.. and another percentage can.. but would prefer not to spend that much money.
Do you realize what anyone can do with $200?
As for being unfair.. I fail to see how this is legit in so many places, there are so many leagues.. for example the biggest, SCCA, not all cars have H gate shifters.. some have padels, do you see the guys having to do the real shifting complain? Maybe.. but do they care? Not really, no. Why? Because it costs a lot to have padel shifters in a car, not to mention it's heavy.
So.. instead of forcing something.. why not limit the other?
Like.. I dunno, a 50kilo weight penalty or so?
Having an option there is a toy, it's something to play with, like I was saying early on, when that force cockpit view went fullscale, there wasn't a single server I got on that would allow me to use my normal view so I stopped playing because it was miserable, and then when I did find a server.. no one was playing.
That is what I am getting at.
That is what I am getting at.
If you say adding auto clutch was a bad idea you haven't been here long enough.. back just before I was here there was no clutch period!
Also.. force cockpit view was insim in the beginning..
It hasn't been until recently that getting a wheel with a clutch pedal already is standard, it's still actually pretty rare.
As for by H gate shifters, yes I know not all cars use them, I was making a reference to the cars that do have them, that you'd be required to use one of those too... which, when I got mine, cost as much as my Momo racing wheel...
Plus, I've still got the number one rule of LFS.. keep it system wide.. LFS is best at one thing, allowing people of all ages etc. enjoy the physics of driving a car no matter how rich or poor you are, this is probably the biggest thing, and you can't say anything about this just because LFS has always been based on this.. keep people that have 10 year old computers still able to play LFS.
Sure you can say well go out and buy a clutch pedal.. but.. what if someone's computer is so old it doesn't even have USB? Think about that?
Or.. how about money issues?
My Momo racing wheel was $100 when I got it, and still pretty much stands there at $90, My Logitech Formula GP wheel was my first wheel I got as a gift, it cost $45 when it was bought, I now use it as .. well nothing currently, but it was for my clutch. My ACT Labs H shifter was another $90 for me to buy
that is $235..
It costs that much to get a G25, but did I get a G25? No. Clutch pedals in my day were.. you make one work, not buy one. I could've spent another $100 for the ACT Labs pedal set, but I didn't have that kind of money.
So are you telling me you would rather force people to not be able to buy any food for two weeks just so they can have a race online after work? That's wrong.
The rate you guys are trying to defend this idea, it's like the FIA, you're ruining the entire purpose of .. everything.
Restrictions like this is what is ruining motorsports, game or not.
If you want to have a race that's 100% fair, then make sure everyone you're racing against has a clutch, don't cut those from the line just because they can't afford it, that is wrong on so many personal levels it's emberassing.
Also.. force cockpit view was insim in the beginning..
It hasn't been until recently that getting a wheel with a clutch pedal already is standard, it's still actually pretty rare.
As for by H gate shifters, yes I know not all cars use them, I was making a reference to the cars that do have them, that you'd be required to use one of those too... which, when I got mine, cost as much as my Momo racing wheel...
Plus, I've still got the number one rule of LFS.. keep it system wide.. LFS is best at one thing, allowing people of all ages etc. enjoy the physics of driving a car no matter how rich or poor you are, this is probably the biggest thing, and you can't say anything about this just because LFS has always been based on this.. keep people that have 10 year old computers still able to play LFS.
Sure you can say well go out and buy a clutch pedal.. but.. what if someone's computer is so old it doesn't even have USB? Think about that?
Or.. how about money issues?
My Momo racing wheel was $100 when I got it, and still pretty much stands there at $90, My Logitech Formula GP wheel was my first wheel I got as a gift, it cost $45 when it was bought, I now use it as .. well nothing currently, but it was for my clutch. My ACT Labs H shifter was another $90 for me to buy
that is $235..
It costs that much to get a G25, but did I get a G25? No. Clutch pedals in my day were.. you make one work, not buy one. I could've spent another $100 for the ACT Labs pedal set, but I didn't have that kind of money.
So are you telling me you would rather force people to not be able to buy any food for two weeks just so they can have a race online after work? That's wrong.
The rate you guys are trying to defend this idea, it's like the FIA, you're ruining the entire purpose of .. everything.
Restrictions like this is what is ruining motorsports, game or not.
If you want to have a race that's 100% fair, then make sure everyone you're racing against has a clutch, don't cut those from the line just because they can't afford it, that is wrong on so many personal levels it's emberassing.
Hold on though..
When that no chase or other view thing came in via insim, do you know how many times I got specced for changing my view after the race or before or in the middle or whatever the case? I mean when that stupid thing was brand new it was all the rave and I had to deal with it 4 out of 5 servers, it was totally unnecessary, fortunately people stopped using that stupid thing because people just started getting mad at the server owners because they couldn't play for whatever reason.
Even to this day I don't use in car view just because all I have is a laptop, albeit a 17" laptop but it is still way to small, if I'm going to ever be stuck in that in car view I must have a 24" screen with a graphics card that can handle it with ease.
Forcing a clutch is serious the worst idea ever.
If you are going to force clutch then you're going to have to force H Gate shifter too then right?
I mean for real, if you ever turned that option on you'd get like 5 people racing when you'd be running normally with over 30 just because that many people don't have an extra clutch pedal.
Sure, on a team server where everyone on that team agrees on it and they all have clutches or some dont, but they all agree.. fine, that's okay.
But putting a system like that limiting the general public? Terrible terrible idea.
When that no chase or other view thing came in via insim, do you know how many times I got specced for changing my view after the race or before or in the middle or whatever the case? I mean when that stupid thing was brand new it was all the rave and I had to deal with it 4 out of 5 servers, it was totally unnecessary, fortunately people stopped using that stupid thing because people just started getting mad at the server owners because they couldn't play for whatever reason.
Even to this day I don't use in car view just because all I have is a laptop, albeit a 17" laptop but it is still way to small, if I'm going to ever be stuck in that in car view I must have a 24" screen with a graphics card that can handle it with ease.
Forcing a clutch is serious the worst idea ever.
If you are going to force clutch then you're going to have to force H Gate shifter too then right?
I mean for real, if you ever turned that option on you'd get like 5 people racing when you'd be running normally with over 30 just because that many people don't have an extra clutch pedal.
Sure, on a team server where everyone on that team agrees on it and they all have clutches or some dont, but they all agree.. fine, that's okay.
But putting a system like that limiting the general public? Terrible terrible idea.
First one I was like okay.. after playing this long I'm used to that.. second car, sucks!.. THIRD car.. LOL!
way to ruin race.. or help!.. take out half the field with a chain wreck lol!
way to ruin race.. or help!.. take out half the field with a chain wreck lol!
Bad idea for plenty of reasons.
But the best reason is
What about the 95% of the players that dont have a clutch pedal?
Don't count on anything like this ever happening.
But the best reason is
What about the 95% of the players that dont have a clutch pedal?
Don't count on anything like this ever happening.
voted for @TypeRacing
Colins12.. few problems.. 1 NEVER save as a png and upload on a slow server, it took me 5 minutes to download that image, i came close to not even wanting to see it at that rate. (seeing firefox would give up every minute and I didn't even come close to seeing a quarter of the image)
Also there is a lot of wasted space, this is supposed to be a car advert, you just have an image with text.
Congrats to those of you who have accomplished the idea of this competition
@FlameCZE
@Bean0 (could've been cleaner but you had something going there)
@minimaxman
@TypeRacing
@RS1T
@newtonyo (btw LOVE those headlights on the FZ!)
for a lot of you, you had either lots of open space, or the space you filled it felt very cramped after that and I couldn't look at it for to long
for example @Furious-Fast the biggest problem with yours is I don't know what to look at, it isn't very clear what you are trying to sell with that image, you say three cars are good at three things, but then RB4 doesn't get much more space it just says everything..
IMO your concept and idea of selling are great, but I think if you thought through the image more it would've been much better
I think if I had that image I would have PROVEN the RB4 is a better at these things, aka shots of the RB4 in front of the other car, some you could do that side shot like you did the XR in rallyx, another from the taillights of one car looking down the track to see the RB4
sorry for going on, this is what my art major has done to me.. turned me into a critic
.. oh well I need the practice before classes start hah!
Colins12.. few problems.. 1 NEVER save as a png and upload on a slow server, it took me 5 minutes to download that image, i came close to not even wanting to see it at that rate. (seeing firefox would give up every minute and I didn't even come close to seeing a quarter of the image)
Also there is a lot of wasted space, this is supposed to be a car advert, you just have an image with text.
Congrats to those of you who have accomplished the idea of this competition
@FlameCZE
@Bean0 (could've been cleaner but you had something going there)
@minimaxman
@TypeRacing
@RS1T
@newtonyo (btw LOVE those headlights on the FZ!)
for a lot of you, you had either lots of open space, or the space you filled it felt very cramped after that and I couldn't look at it for to long
for example @Furious-Fast the biggest problem with yours is I don't know what to look at, it isn't very clear what you are trying to sell with that image, you say three cars are good at three things, but then RB4 doesn't get much more space it just says everything..
IMO your concept and idea of selling are great, but I think if you thought through the image more it would've been much better
I think if I had that image I would have PROVEN the RB4 is a better at these things, aka shots of the RB4 in front of the other car, some you could do that side shot like you did the XR in rallyx, another from the taillights of one car looking down the track to see the RB4
sorry for going on, this is what my art major has done to me.. turned me into a critic
.. oh well I need the practice before classes start hah!Those shots, and that Kyoto track was taken back in the days of S1, probably.. I think we saw those images about 3 to 6 months before S2 was released to public
Back in those days we called it the Porrari (some added a Z), for porsche, ferrari, and 350Z (although honestly the only Z I ever saw in it is somewhat the front headlights.. doesn't remind me of a Z)
Back in those days we called it the Porrari (some added a Z), for porsche, ferrari, and 350Z (although honestly the only Z I ever saw in it is somewhat the front headlights.. doesn't remind me of a Z)
Image stablization makes a huge difference at any focal length, I just start failing to see the purpose when you get these slow 18-55s.. I mean its nice to have, there are times I wish I had a 18-55 VR isntead of my non VR just because I was taking night shots at 1600 iso hand held.
Stablization it really doesn't matter how fast you're taking the picture once you get over the 1/800 range, 1/500 and you start seeing plenty of motion, VR/OS/IS doesn't stop this motion, it floats the lens so everything else flat like it should be.
Here, put yourself in this situation, lets say you're taking a photograph with the lens I want, the 70-200 2.8 VR, it is a close up shot of an airplane prop (sorry was at an air show this morning), on a cloudy day, and you want to shoot at 2.8 so you put an ND filter or two on it to slow the speeds down so you get the depth of field to keep the 2.8, so here it is.. normally you would be taking a 1/800 which you can see probably 10 degrees of prop motion typically, but here you are with 2 ND8 filters on this beast and are shooting at 1/100 (not that anyone would do this, at 1/100 you would have no prop at all it would all be a blur), but anyways because you're shooting at 1/100 at 200mm, you would have to know some good breathing excercieses to pull this off without blurring the entire photo, so VR comes on and floats the lens elements and keeps it all steady so you're still shooting at a very slow speed, but everything is still sharp.
With my 55-200 4-5.6 VR, I have taken shots well below 1/50 at 200mm at 5.6 and VR has saved my life plenty of times, image stablization makes a huuuuuuuuuuge difference, it is honestly worth the expensive price you save so many more photos.
Someone else may say, well why not get a faster lens then? Well I do, I have a manual 135 2.8 I used for shooting my sisters' wedding, it was fast enough shooting at 800 iso (was shooting 800 iso all night), but.. 2 problems
1 I had to focus manually, as dark as the place was, it was a hit or miss with the 2.8 indoors, literally, I probably lost nearly HALF of my images from being out of focus, I don't know how many photos I took with that lens but I took 500 shots that night.
2 I could use my 55-200 VR still at 800 iso and not only did I have auto focusing so I never missed.. Besides the shot being taken slightly slower, having a shot with motion in it was much more worth it than an out of focus fast shot.
And for those that don't understand how much of a difference depth of field is with a 2.8, at the distances I was working at, if I missed the focus ring by 3mm or so from being on focus, the shot was pretty much worthless
Stablization it really doesn't matter how fast you're taking the picture once you get over the 1/800 range, 1/500 and you start seeing plenty of motion, VR/OS/IS doesn't stop this motion, it floats the lens so everything else flat like it should be.
Here, put yourself in this situation, lets say you're taking a photograph with the lens I want, the 70-200 2.8 VR, it is a close up shot of an airplane prop (sorry was at an air show this morning), on a cloudy day, and you want to shoot at 2.8 so you put an ND filter or two on it to slow the speeds down so you get the depth of field to keep the 2.8, so here it is.. normally you would be taking a 1/800 which you can see probably 10 degrees of prop motion typically, but here you are with 2 ND8 filters on this beast and are shooting at 1/100 (not that anyone would do this, at 1/100 you would have no prop at all it would all be a blur), but anyways because you're shooting at 1/100 at 200mm, you would have to know some good breathing excercieses to pull this off without blurring the entire photo, so VR comes on and floats the lens elements and keeps it all steady so you're still shooting at a very slow speed, but everything is still sharp.
With my 55-200 4-5.6 VR, I have taken shots well below 1/50 at 200mm at 5.6 and VR has saved my life plenty of times, image stablization makes a huuuuuuuuuuge difference, it is honestly worth the expensive price you save so many more photos.
Someone else may say, well why not get a faster lens then? Well I do, I have a manual 135 2.8 I used for shooting my sisters' wedding, it was fast enough shooting at 800 iso (was shooting 800 iso all night), but.. 2 problems
1 I had to focus manually, as dark as the place was, it was a hit or miss with the 2.8 indoors, literally, I probably lost nearly HALF of my images from being out of focus, I don't know how many photos I took with that lens but I took 500 shots that night.
2 I could use my 55-200 VR still at 800 iso and not only did I have auto focusing so I never missed.. Besides the shot being taken slightly slower, having a shot with motion in it was much more worth it than an out of focus fast shot.
And for those that don't understand how much of a difference depth of field is with a 2.8, at the distances I was working at, if I missed the focus ring by 3mm or so from being on focus, the shot was pretty much worthless
I was close to buying this until I noticed....
no OS..
Which is why I want the Nikon version with VR, it will make a HUUUUUGE difference, unfortunately the price difference is pretty steep, it costs $1000 more for the Nikon, which.. they just quit making, so hopefully some cheap ones will start showing up on the market and I'll be able to snag one.... hopefully..
But I want to get the 70-200 2.8 and a 2x teleconverter so I have a 4.6 400mm which is awesome..
Sigma's rep is for sure getting back up there, but.. still nothing compared to the big leagues..
Tokina though freaking came out of nowhere and has that 11-16 2.8 that is freaking sharper than Nikon's 12-24 2.8, it's crazy
As for whoever was talking about the camera.... Canons hurt like hell when holding them, you can't pay me enough to hold on to one of those all day!
My Nikon feels like it should.. comfortable, even with heavy lenses on it!
Plus Canons tend to have funky white balance and color rendition, I don't like it..
Get back on topic or I will give warnings to all of you.
HAHAH! I like the comment, you did get that thing really sideways at speed too!
I scared myself once in my dad's GMC Jimmy going home on a rainy day, those tires were not made to be in the rain they are so old, I was going around a yield turn [obviously] to fast and probably had as much angle as you were going, probably going just over half the speed you were but it really is scary!
Especially when there are cars right next to you and you could risk going over a sidewalk into a parking long!
But for real, that was a very nice save, I want to take my Mazda 3 out and drive it around the track, supposed to go up to Road Atlanta next weekend maybe my friend will let me autox his first gen RX7
+1 for manual cars
I scared myself once in my dad's GMC Jimmy going home on a rainy day, those tires were not made to be in the rain they are so old, I was going around a yield turn [obviously] to fast and probably had as much angle as you were going, probably going just over half the speed you were but it really is scary!
Especially when there are cars right next to you and you could risk going over a sidewalk into a parking long!
But for real, that was a very nice save, I want to take my Mazda 3 out and drive it around the track, supposed to go up to Road Atlanta next weekend maybe my friend will let me autox his first gen RX7
+1 for manual cars
His white balance is right, check out front license plate.
Getting white balance set under halogen street lights is impossible, and if you do attempt it it will ruin all other colors, photos of my friend's blue first gen RX7 turns to an extreme purple if I attempt to set the white balance to be right.. but.. even then it's wrong because those lights aren't white anyway.
Nice Beemer Ian, is that thing lowered?
Also does that use the same chassis as a Volvo?
Getting white balance set under halogen street lights is impossible, and if you do attempt it it will ruin all other colors, photos of my friend's blue first gen RX7 turns to an extreme purple if I attempt to set the white balance to be right.. but.. even then it's wrong because those lights aren't white anyway.
Nice Beemer Ian, is that thing lowered?
Also does that use the same chassis as a Volvo?
imo would make for an awesome poster image, but for a picture there isn't enough.. or any GI to speak of, also as stated the tire material isn't very good, no texture to it, looks like plastic.
Was about to go out and have my first photoshoot of my car.. instead this happened:
backed into my sisters' truck... fml
http://twitpic.com/9jzsm/full
backed into my sisters' truck... fml
http://twitpic.com/9jzsm/full
You can drift on any track, it doesnt take a special track to drift on it, drifting.. is just sliding your car.. so.. if there is pavement, you can probably drift it!
Check out inferno setups (search google) there are a lot of awesome race and drift setups on that website that are available for download.
Also.. you memorize tracks by driving on them whether you like it or no, I havent raced on FE Black for probably 2 years now and I still know every turn, every brake zone and every gear and zones, you just have to drive it.. it isnt a hard thing, plus why do you say you dont want to memorize a track?
Also you have to know a track just as much either way, for racing you have to know brake and throttle and turn in zones, drifting you really just have to pay attention to your speeds and turn in zones, meaning.. they're pretty much exactly the same..
Also.. welcome to Live for Speed!
Check out inferno setups (search google) there are a lot of awesome race and drift setups on that website that are available for download.
Also.. you memorize tracks by driving on them whether you like it or no, I havent raced on FE Black for probably 2 years now and I still know every turn, every brake zone and every gear and zones, you just have to drive it.. it isnt a hard thing, plus why do you say you dont want to memorize a track?
Also you have to know a track just as much either way, for racing you have to know brake and throttle and turn in zones, drifting you really just have to pay attention to your speeds and turn in zones, meaning.. they're pretty much exactly the same..
Also.. welcome to Live for Speed!
hah, I was looking at the mesh this morning, it's pretty clean, there are a few spots here and there that can be fixed but overall it's worth working on, guess while I'm inside here cooling off (hot as hell outside this 4th!) get some reference photos to work with seeing.. I don't know anyone with a lambo.. actually I lied, my neighbor up the street has a black gallardo haha.. I think he sold it a few years ago but I saw it come in and out of the neighborhood less than a handful of times.
I love vista personally, there are a few things I don't like about it which go back with compatibility issues from games of mine built for windows 98.. lol.. but other than that, besides being kinda slow I like Vista.
I just have a full slow hard drive and 2gb of ram so.. plenty of room to improve if I want to but I think I'm just going to wait for 7 and a laptop that is quad core.. or just go for a desktop, not sure yet.
I just.. I like vista, but there are some things that make me mad, like drivers.. vista has always had an issue with me and drivers, for example right now.. my screen will NOT turn off unless I shut my laptop down, something to do with the ATi drivers, sometimes they will work, but they haven't worked all summer so I have no idea.. I really need to restart from scratch but.. don't have a new harddrive or want to spend money on a new hard drive when my computer is quite dated anyways!
I just have a full slow hard drive and 2gb of ram so.. plenty of room to improve if I want to but I think I'm just going to wait for 7 and a laptop that is quad core.. or just go for a desktop, not sure yet.
I just.. I like vista, but there are some things that make me mad, like drivers.. vista has always had an issue with me and drivers, for example right now.. my screen will NOT turn off unless I shut my laptop down, something to do with the ATi drivers, sometimes they will work, but they haven't worked all summer so I have no idea.. I really need to restart from scratch but.. don't have a new harddrive or want to spend money on a new hard drive when my computer is quite dated anyways!
Hah! I just loled that's hilarious!
Once apparently my monseigneur (i'm catholic) was saying something about cell phones in the middle of church, how they are a distraction.. right after he said that, his started going off, funniest thing ever!
It's okay I got 3 hours of sleep haha, this is the first sunrise I've seen all summer!
Gonna be in a car for many hours today so I'm sure I'll get some sleep in then too so I'm not to worried about it!
Gonna be in a car for many hours today so I'm sure I'll get some sleep in then too so I'm not to worried about it!
It's not even that! It's when you get old mothers with cell phones with the volume on highest and the most annoying ringers and its lost in the depths of a purse that takes years to find!
That is when phones are annoying haha
Ahh yes @angry angel, well..
I would come back with a better response but I'm a tad busy surfing the nets right now!
Well I'm kinda in the midst of college right now? So.. a portable .. takes 0 space cockpit, I mean if someone would lend a hand in warping the space time continuum for me to make something that can weigh nothing and take zero space until I hit a magical button that would be fantastic!
Plus I have nowhere to put it
One day I will make one.. one day..
Tell me about it...
Actually I 100% support the devs and their actions (uhh.. unless they go off and kill someone, I support that 0%) anyways, I think the devs chose a good time to slow things down, for me.. personally, it slowed down as I got into college, and here 2 years later not much has happened to LFS since then so .. really.. I haven't missed anything which is good for me I suppose!
It's not so much that I've dropped off from enjoying LFS, it's that.. I can't get my damn wheel to fit to any of these new desks with a quarter inch lip! BAH!!
Actually I 100% support the devs and their actions (uhh.. unless they go off and kill someone, I support that 0%) anyways, I think the devs chose a good time to slow things down, for me.. personally, it slowed down as I got into college, and here 2 years later not much has happened to LFS since then so .. really.. I haven't missed anything which is good for me I suppose!
It's not so much that I've dropped off from enjoying LFS, it's that.. I can't get my damn wheel to fit to any of these new desks with a quarter inch lip! BAH!!
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG