The online racing simulator
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gu3st
S3 licensed
Quote from MaartenB :I'm not gonna argue, I appreciate the efforts made, it looks promising. I'll come back if it's in a state that works for me. Thanks for the support.

Hope you don't hold your breath looking for something that works better than LFS for VR.
gu3st
S3 licensed
? LFS has one of the best VR support of any sim out there. The reason for the stutters is a mismatch between the physics engine's update cycle (100hz) and the headset's FPS (90hz, 80hz for Rift S).
gu3st
S3 licensed
Man it's like these kids have no idea about how the real world works
gu3st
S3 licensed
Quote from Evolution_R :Let's say we don't upload the mods to LFS site(s). If I decide to make a mod (using copyrighted mesh) and share it with other people over YouTube using Mega.nz or Google Drive - at what risk I'm exposed as a person? Maybe only a copyright strike or there is a possibility of me actually being sued?

In theory they could subpoena the filehost for your identity and then sue you directly. The faster outcome is that they'd file a DMCA strike and get your file removed because content providers effectively can't reject a DMCA request if they wish to retain the protections that the DMCA gives them
gu3st
S3 licensed
Quote from Evolution_R :I've made some mods using copyrighted mesh - does that makes me a thief?

Is that a theft too (photoshoped Forza Horizon 4 car over a LFS track)?


If you distribute it, yes it is theft. You do not own the intellectual property for that car, therefore you are not eligible to distribute it. You could build a program that would convert it from someone's legitimately owned version of Forza but by distributing it yourself you're breaking the law.
gu3st
S3 licensed
Quote from Evolution_R :Copying, not stealing. There is a difference.

No. It's intellectual property theft.
gu3st
S3 licensed
Quote from VladM :TL;DR of this thread:
1. developers are at no fault for allowing this as they have no control
2. the people who release mods mostly do it for free, so they fall under FAIR USE copyright laws, alas devoid of any problems law-wise.
3. mods are nice lol you cant prove LFS got more sales because of mods all of a sudden, how do you prove that in the court of law?

Stealing content from another game does not constitute fair use, it's copyright infringement. Releasing it for free does not change that.
gu3st
S3 licensed
That kind of thinking will get Scawen sued into oblivion. If users are posting meshes ripped directly from Forza (which is a large number of modded cars out there for many sims), then that's putting Scawen hugely at risk. Maybe the car manufacturers won't care, but Turn10 who spent money licensing and building the car might have their own thoughts.
gu3st
S3 licensed
I feel like if you're wanting to learn a specific track, then maybe a simulator that's laser scanned the track already might be a better choice. LFS is great for racing and the content that exists, but not if you're expecting specific tracks.
gu3st
S3 licensed
Have you seen Pocono's alternate layouts?!. They're terrible at best and horrible if you're being honest.
gu3st
S3 licensed
I know that it's not a lot of work, I just feel it's better suited to an external tool like yours as it keeps LFS leaner.
gu3st
S3 licensed
Quote from Sponge :Thanks for the reply Smile

DX11 support is definitely a feature to look for in a gpu, will keep that in mind.
I’m most likely not going to be using vr, it’s still waaayyy too expensive imo and as I wear glasses, a vr headset might not fit at all or be comfortable to wear over them.

Depending on how your eyesight is, VR might still be fine without glasses for you. If you can see clearly up to about 2~ meters, then you shouldn't need glasses for VR. Personally I wear contacts for VR because it's just.. that much better.
gu3st
S3 licensed
Quote from MacedoSTI :I believe this is a little complicated
if there is already a model in some game, there is no reason to redo it all again for nothing

basically all mods come from other games like Forza / Need for speed

that's apply from other games mods too, like GTASA / GTAV / beamNG / Assetto Corsa

-
and we all know that it's hard to model a car from scratch.

Well, I don't see a problem in modeling a car because I already work with it, but car modeling is not something that you can learn from one day to the next

I believe that Scawen releasing the mods on the forum people will be excited to create their own and will ignore this fact, for sure.

Gamemodels.ru is there for that with more 5000 models, who's going to hold this?

if they are not released here because of that, they will be shared in groups / youtube / instagram freely as before this conversation

This is really the crux of the problem. Trying to prevent IP theft from other games. Yes modelling is hard and it seems like redundant work, but it's also the best way to avoid potential legal issues due to IP theft.

If they're shared elsewhere then that's fine too, becuase it's still protecting the developers from the potential legal issues of distributing stolen assets.

Maybe strict rules with WIP threads would be interesting as they'd encourage creativity and people building cars specifically for LFS, in the same fictional-ish vain of the built in cars, making them eligible to be included in LFS.
gu3st
S3 licensed
There's a distinction though. Kunos or Rockstar have never openly supported hosting mods on their own platforms, which removes the liability from themselves.

LFS hosting a forum for them, with link sharing of content directly derived from others IP could put Scawen at risk.
gu3st
S3 licensed
Quote from Evolution_R :So, simple said - we can have mods, but they should be made from scratch and have a different names, emblems, logos and badges?

Made from scratch at the very least. Different emblem/logo/badge makes it less likely to infringe on any copyrights or trademarks.
gu3st
S3 licensed
Quote from Evolution_R :Well, I can find or buy this model from another place - in that case? Or I should recreate it by pictures from scratch? I mean how someone would know if the model is ripped from Forza or made from scratch if not told so? I think this is more Mazda's copyright infringement than Forza's.

I think this is where mods are always in this weird grey area, which is why I escalated that it's a potential risk for Scawen to be officially sanctioning this in some capacity. If you have permission to use a model (either you created it yourself or purchased it), then it should be fine to be used as a mod, and if there are issues then it's the car manufacturer who would be the one pursuing that, which I don't recall seeing any car makers pursuing mods of this type.

Ripping from another game you've now taken artwork done by one company that was licensed by that company as well from the original manufacturer. You've now stolen intellectual property from Turn10 (in Forza's case), as well as potentially infringed on the trademark of Mazda or whoever.
gu3st
S3 licensed
Quote from Evolution_R :What if I change the name of the car, remove all of the logos, badges etc. so only the base shape is the same? I'm not a very familiar with the copyright infringements, but something that Chinese car manufacturers do - copy the base shape and change some minor details.

Well if it's modelled from scratch, even if it is a real car, should be fine. The main thing I noticed was your upload was a straight rip from Forza which is pretty cut and dried copyright infringement.
gu3st
S3 licensed
Hi Scawen

I think this is an interesting development but I have some concerns, mostly in regards to copyrights. AFAIK this is one of the few officially sanctioned mod sections, with most being unofficial for the purposes of distancing themselves from any copyright claims.

It can be seen already with the first post being ripped from another racing game. Will there be further rules around posting ripped content? I'm concerned that this section could inadvertently put you and the other developers in some form of legal trouble.
gu3st
S3 licensed
It's just difficult to add the proper amount of "bumpyness" if everything's fictional. You either end up super smooth (a la LFS) or you've introduced something that's ridiculous and equally fake by being too bumpy

When driving a laser scanned real track, it's not so much that I care about the exact bumps for my own driving training, it's that bumps actually form due to some natural process, be it that it's the curb lane so larger trucks have caused the lane to sink a bit, or just that the track is in a rainy climate so the track erodes or causes the soil to shift under the weight of the track surface.
gu3st
S3 licensed
What does properly developed even mean? To maximize income? To live forever? There's plenty of sims that were excellent that have fallen by the wayside and died, unlike LFS that still has a small but committed community.

LFS is still the best racing simulator and does many things correct. The one thing it doesn't do is simulate (much) real content, which is what most people mean when they talk about LFS' content deficencies.

LFS' core has things that other sims still haven't caught up to.
gu3st
S3 licensed
was there any concern that it got cancelled?
gu3st
S3 licensed
That can already be accomplished with a MOTD upon joining. Then it's not bound to any audio platform.
gu3st
S3 licensed
iRacing has had voice chat built into the client for 10 years. It's not unreasonable (but not required) for LFS to implement it natively. A community solution seems unlikely to happen considering it's been 15+ years.
gu3st
S3 licensed
Didn't someone create a relay client forever ago which basically took the temp.mpr and sliced it and then sent it over the wire and then the client would basically receive that temp.mpr and play it as soon as stuff came in?
gu3st
S3 licensed
love that flamecze guy
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