17,002 members total registered to the LFS forum (that's demo users that have signed up for the forum, and Liscence holders) as of 7:28 Am GMT+5 on 4/20/07

649 Most Users Ever Online

now for the sake of arguement, whch this is, let's define the viewers per hour of the forum as the maximum on record. so for a day that's 649*24, under the assumption the nobody visits the forum more than once per day (15096), but we do know it to be a fact that people DO visit more than once a day on average, cutting the number of unique users per day drasticly. For simple normalization of traffic, lets average the peak and lowest traffic hours, weighting more toward the peak hours (for this multiplied the number of assumed unique users per day by .7 to argue that the forum is fairly busy most fo the day, LFS is world wide after all) and came up with 10567 (rounded down by .2 since we all know nobody is 2/10 of a user around here even though some treat demo users like that.)

now.... lets see how often people in this thread alone check the forum so i can figure out how often the loud ones come on. as the loudest of the loud, i've used Cue-Ball as the high value, and have used 1 as the low for the average (keep in mind that this is all on the fly, and if i had access to ALL of the site statistics would probably result in an even smaller portion of the community being vocal) Cueball visited at least 11 times on the 17th of this month so the unweighted average forum user, based on a quick and dirty calculation vists the forum 6 times a day. Let us divide our previous number of assumed unique users per day by this number, shll we? (10567/6 = 1761.166666 (you get the point on that one the six just goes on and on) which for the sake of sticking with whole users is rounded to 1761)

about 10.35% of TOTAL LFs users, admittedly nto yet accounting for the players who have since lost interest or for one reason or another decided to just not come back. assuming that half these people arent even around anymore that puts the vocal members of the community at just under 21%.
the Vocal Minority.

now, the question is about how to go about the survey, which i obviously DO want to undertake. Using the statistics right off of the front page would be far to easy to make say what i want to say, and frankly i'd like to be as objective as possible.

edit: right, now it's time for me to get to bed, bloody nackered. anyone care to assist with the survey? Should it be a general cross section of racers online? Or should i ask them specificly if they use the forum or not? I think a general cross section limited to W9/10 servers would be most accurate, as they have experienced the new start system, and may have formed an objective oppinion about it

Last edited by KeiichiRX7, Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:01. Reason : forgetting things/asking for input from nay-sayers

no, smart ass, i'm currently quantifying what portion of the community is silent (ie, not spoken for)

and can run a public server based poll later. as soon as i've posted some basic calculations i'm going to bed. It's almost 8 am, which starting to get pretty late for someone workig 3rd shift.

Tristan, assumptions are bad. And you would assume incorrectly.

As for actually quantifying a "silent majority" it's very difficult, as a large portion of that majority probably doesn't even visit the forum. I'm working on this however.

With all the custom dash requests i wondered if it wouldnt be a good idea to use DX8 to draw in a defineable dash file from the Need for speed 3 or 4 games, as these dashes are highly customizeable.

It's not a PERFECT Idea since it would require a lot of programming, but like that people could have the custom interiors and dashes they want, and updated dashes and the like for the GTR's. It also uses a format that's already well known.

only problem is that NFS3 dashes could onyl be used with a fixed view forward. NFS4 are fully 3d

Just an idea, no Flaming needed for mentioning the NFS series

Last edited by KeiichiRX7, Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:55.

In counterpoint:

When did you become a qualified psychologist? And over the net no less!

What's wrong with finding an opposing viewpoint amusing? I also find it amusing that people think Creation and Evolution are mutually exclusive.

Actually, I was refering to the state of things here in america with that comment, and neglected to proofread the post. Here I have a choice of whether to bite the bullet and appologize, simply sluff off the typo, or point to a more educated person on the topic. If it's ok for Mel Brooks, a Jewish comedian/movie director to have a laugh at both Hitler and the Nazi party, it's fine for me. I beleive in equality, and i also believe that the best way to remove fear from something is to laugh at it till it's not scary any more. If you want I could give you a list of other things that get the laugh treatment.


As for the last quote, I've pulled this from the "silent majority" observation from watchign people around me. The majority of people don't speak up and according to statistics, don't agree with the loud-mouths. Just because most of the people HERE are bitching about not liking the starts doesnt mean that the majority of teh active players arent perfectly happy with it.


edit: As for the anti-american stuff, I got my answer from someone and dropped it.

Last edited by KeiichiRX7, Fri, 20 Apr 2007 10:13.

hero complex? nope. just having a laugh at you guys. And the term Nazi's been so overused on other causes that it hardly means anything more than **** anymore.

and no, i dont think it's possible, but then again I don't care. Simulation or not at the end of the day its a game, something we do for fun. Most of us just want to RACE and skip the unneccisary preliminary bullshit.

the fact that LFS is so easy to play online makes it scream that it was made for pickup races. leagues are made easier by this, but are still a byproduct.

not a stab at you directly. Funny how the Realism Nazi's want everythign realistic, but would be quite happy to have cars magically disappear.

The problem with a post made earlier is that there isnt just "tarmac" there are different smoothnesses and textures that would favor different proportions. For instance one wouldnt want to run a low profile tire at south city, too rough.

If the rules allowed if F1 cars would be running much lower profile tires than they do. But it goes both ways as well as tires with a higher profile have a more prominent effect when air pressure adjustments are made.

pre-defined width is a good idea, until we get compound surfaces (a few inches of sand over asphalt), and even after.

Quote from Blackout :

By the time the car would reach the other car you would be forced to spectate.

how very very realistic... :haha:

Tristan, it's not just you, it seems to be the general sentement around here. Deggis, it might as well be racial because we have as much control over being American as a black person has over being black. Just think how much BS a black American would have to deal with if we could actually see each other in LFS.

Back on topic:
It's funny that people who don't really race are obsessively trying to get what real racers would gladly do without.

and nobody seems to have offered a counter point to my suggestions

Not really. What's best for a smooth circuit wont work as well on South City, or and old circuit with rough asphalt.

What works at the Scavier Autocross facility wouldnt work at the Columbus IN autocross facility (notorious for eating tyres)

got it every time i tried to join my friend's autoX server yesterday morning

I don't even care to go too far off topic, I just want an honest answer. And in line with the thread that it is a response to seemed the best place to put it.

When trying to log into an AutoX server in W9 I receive a "Did not get track info" error message

You know.. just as a gripe while we are at it.. Being American really was'nt my choice. My parents f*cked here, my mother carried me for 9 months, and I was thrown out into a hospital that happened to be within American borders. If I could afford to leave, I probably would.

When I bought my liscence and joined the forum, I thought long and hard about whether or not to list myself as American, because we seem to have this huge bullseye painted on us. I'm willing to bet more than a few of the people listed as Canadian on this forum are atually Americans that don't want to deal with the political bullshit.

Most of us don't support Bush's war any more than you do. We want our people home safe and sound, not in the damn desert dying for people who don't want them there. So, could someone PLEASE tell me.. What do you want from us? Do we just make a convenient universal laughing stock? Are we genuinely unwelcome here?

If the mods feel the need to move this post, feel free. There's really not much more to say.

Tristan, I honestly do not know you well enough to go calling you by your first name as if you are familair to me. Some of us do beleive in manners.

It's easy enough to assume that the time for gridding the cars up has already passed, and roll-control has already been engaged to keep the cars from moving on the start.

i propose another solution. Allow the driver to take over control on the grid. If the brake or handbrake axis is pulled the autobrake cuts out and control is now in the hands of the anal retentive driver.

Another suggestion would be a sort of ready up system in which the cars appear on the grid with the autobrake (better at this point, since we assume gridding and warmup lap is over, to call it a staging brake or roll control). Much like the start of the Daytona USA games on the oval, a message would be flashed to advise drivers to take over brake control. Now here is where this idea splits. Either the act of taking over braking manually disengages the roll control (with the possibility to add a button specificly for Roll Control like a real race car) and sends the car's status to raced control as "ready"... or Roll Control just cus out after a specific period of time and the car jumps the start. I prefer the frist option, of these two.

I personally dont see the problem with the current system, very user friendly and easy to learn, while not complicated and frustrating for beginners.



Cue-Ball. I have not since tristancliffe seen someone whine and moan so much about something so trivial. If you want to assert the course of a racing sim, go to a college that teaches games and simulation design, and program your own. Else, be a good boy, make a few suggestions (politely) and take what the devs give us. My first thought on the false starts was "Cool. Hey we have false starts now!" not "Stupid Scawen, put my handbrake on... HOW DARE HE!".

i think most of us have a mouse. maybe if i can make my video capture card cooperate i will upload some video. it's actually kinda fun. to chance a tire you have to rotate the stick counter clockwise in rythim with the indicator. fuel you have to tip the stick to pour the fuel, too steep and the can cant get air so the fuel cant come out.

just a fun idea.

as an LFS adaptation, a rythm version with one button or pedal? ionno, jut sounded like a fun idea and something to add tension to pit stops since we dont have peopel as pit crew

Quote from deggis :

That carnage excuse is BS... if it's too hard for some people to understand, that IF you have handbrake toggled, MAYBE you need to untoggle it before you can move the car. Or what? Is that too unlogical? Do you think LFS players are really so stupid because players have used to all this arcade-like aids and "full throttle, wait the lights & cross your fingers" starts without a even possibility to do a false start?

I don't get at all this "it will cause havoc for newbie players on the demo BL GP", maybe Scawen sees this from the money perspective or something, but we are still taking about game that tries to be a simulation. If it's too hard for some people to press one button that has logical reason they're obviously playing the wrong game.

edit

yes i do.

just for fun i think it would be great to have a pit system like in Automobili Lamborghini for the n64 (hold off on the flaming for just a tick)

in AL there were various motions required of the user with the analog stick that had to be well coordinated. too slow and it's a slow stop, too fast and the air wrench slips off of the lug, or the fuel receptacle jams.

thought it might add to the game in the sense that sometimes pit stops dont go as planned.

I'm fine with it is now. I dislike the idea of total carnage on the grid because so twit just accidentally twiddled his handbrake. I use the shift lever on my dfp for the hand brake, so it would be pretty easy to accidentally trip it reaching for a drink before a race

the option to allow the tire compounds should be up to the server.

to be honest i'd like to allow road super for the lower classes.

Baja 1000. 1000 Miles in the desert, in a class 11 Score Race car (more commonly known as the stock beetle class)

Class 11 isn't an easy class to compete in, as they are constantly challenged by the terrain of the course. It's a test for both the machine nd the driver to come in under the 32 hour time limit. And if you don't come in under the time limit, youre still out in the desert, so you've gotta go SOMEWHERE.

in reality you dont have to have special equipment or a button to look around either

+1 but disableable

still gonna go ahead with my own development. develop a ready to use dash and software kit so those building cockpits can use them.

hey, i want this stuff for myself too, but develpment costs cash.