Quote from Pier nodoyuna :

This is correct, because this way you are transfering load to the rear tyres, so you are having more grip. If you apply too much power (in lower gears or powerful cars) then the car will spin because of throttle oversteer.

Conceptually yes its sound, but the timing and thought process is different than what my intuitions says.

So compare to LFS: when detect spin...

- In LFS: lightly reduce throttle and modulate

- In NKP: add more throttle and modulate

Almost a FWD way of doing it.

Got in some more seat time with it, this time on Newbury with F1600. I upped the caster to 5 (4 is default) and it does feel a lot better that way. Adjusted the final drive with everything else as default.

The experience was a lot more positive this time around (for whatever combination of reasons), and I found myself getting nicely sucked into lapping around. In terms of sliding around I'm still finding that to recover from a slide of any real significance you need to input a lot of throttle, and the car stays in 'state=oversteer' longer than expected if you don't. Counter-steering seems more effective now (previously it put you MORE into a spin) which is great.

If anyone wants to put me in my place by telling that's how it really is in real life, then that's more than fine by me.

I'm enjoying having to heel-toe now because of the increased engine braking. I hope they don't dumb that down.

Last edited by Mattesa, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 06:30.

Quote from blackbird04217 :

There is very little wrong with usability in the sense of the UI. However, in LFS you can change graphical options, and see the results immediately. I understand this is no easy task from the coding side, I've had issues myself here. However it is possible, and more user friendly when the user can change any option, and immediately see the results without needing to restart, load a track/level and get to a point where they can compare the results... Likely by that time they forgot the previous visuals.

iRacing was a pain, I never got it setup in 3 monitors because of this style of UI. It is too much of a hassle to reload the entire game and track just to see if it is working yet. Only to find out you need to restart again.

I think LFS may be unique in how much you can configure while still inside the active game. Particularly for graphical settings I can't recall another game that doesn't require a reload.

Historically the complaints about the UI were centered around the design, so wanted to clarify.

Seriously, there is vey little wrong with the out-of-car UI. It is as simple as can be and from launch to driving is only what, 3 layers away. Seriously, the design is just fine.

The pitbox menu needs some fixing though.

Quote from NightShift :

Dish of the day on DrivingItalia: several people have been complaining about the steering wheel getting light on the F1600 when you apply more than some lock (a temporary solution has been found already)

Some sparks were sent flying when someone added the F1600 in 1.1 Final felt like an arcade game and that it was much better in Beta3 (which is just plain silliness). Kunos and Markus were obviously not happy with this and both took the chance to rant a bit about the community.

And while they do have a point (well Markus as usual overdid it...), it still does look like something is wrong with the 1600 (in my first 5min test I actually mistook it for weight being shifted back under acceleration...)

Including an old ChangeLog in the RC/Final bundle also contributed to more (avoidable) confusion. Things like this may look small but they all add up. Meh.

Back to the point, increasing the caster fixes the issue for the time being.

What were the complaints about and in what way did was it felt to be arcade?

What does the caster fix? The steering going light?

My opinions are based on the F1600 around Aosta, that's my control combo. Wheel setup is the same as ever, and the car setup is default.

I need to drive it more, but that's what came to mind.

Just some thoughts:

• Feels different than prev. version immediately.
  
• Oversteer more recoverable by countersteering
  
• FFB seems more forceful
  

• Still feels odd with respect to entry/exit to oversteer
  
• Once oversteer the car seems to slip forever...
  
• ...then it regains grip in a very sudden manner...
  
• ...then it snap spins in the other direction with seemingly no provocation....?
  

It just doesn't come naturally or control naturally the way LFS or real life does in grip-slide-recover.

The idea is simple: cars behind need to have some sort of speed advantage over cars in front, all else equal.

For example, cycling. What's the enabler? Drafting. Yes, let's have drafting again.

Quote from NightShift :

Plus, apparently Kunos's not happy about the perpetual whining on the current tyre model and he's planning to bring back a revised version of the old one from 1.0.3.

Interesting stuff... but what still continues to bother me is the whole induced understeer thing. Fix it or find proof.

Quote from The Moose :

Yeah, I've heard of a few people that had that problem. No idea what that's all about, I've not really touched beta 3 as the leagues I race in still use Beta 2.

It was explained that it might be a bug in the server list taking up 100% cpu for single core systems.

Well at least I'm not the only one.

Not an exciting race, but the gaps between the top 7 weren't as bad as I thought they would be.

Quote from NightShift :

Guess they should be busy finalizing 1.1, right?

Quote from The Moose :

Correct.

I reported my bug at the forums over there, basically I can no longer connect to race online as of the update. It was acknowledged. I hope they fix it.

The differences in speed are back to being large again, and that's disregarding the new teams.

It's an interesting start of the season for sure.

YEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Quote from UncleBenny :

They pulled it off for the Indy car which has quite a few wings on it, is it really that huge of a step up to F1? I'm sure their agreement with Williams includes all the data they'll need to simulate it properly.

Yes the indy cars as well. Just a general observation that applies to all sims, but iRacing is the benchmark.

Quote from titanLS :

All excitement aside, I wonder if people have forgotten that there are only a handful of guys in the world who are qualified to drive this thing competitively, and safely. If the BF1 is any example, the racing in the Williams might...not... be...the best. Here's to hoping.

Nah, we've had a handful of rookies jump into F1 this past season and really there wasn't any problem with them adjusting to the cars themselves.

Now... Given there are so few people qualified to drive it, just how accurately can they simulate the car? How much data do they have access to? With so much of the car's characteristics dictated by aero, and so much CFD power used to produce it, are we really going to get a reasonable representation?

Could be the least realistic car. Same goes for the BF1 in LFS.

Alright, had a quick go at it. FF1600 at Aosta. On existing setups I now have to heel-toe else spin! Nice!

The induced understeer thing (i.e. do not counter steer to recover from oversteer, rather turn more TOWARDS the direction of the spin and ADD throttle) still bothers me to no end. I still doubt a real FF is driven this way.

Quote from franky500 :

yeah im also doing alot of work on that server right now, so its likely to be slow for a little while tonight... although didn't expect it to run that slow!.

Just chucked up another: http://www.500control.co.uk/nkpro_beta3.rar Although i wouldn't expect great things from that one as its outside the main network.

550+ kbps

Thanks for the heads up.

Much interested in feeling out the changes to the cars.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I don't think it will ever get 'REAL' sure the models of the cars can look real, but generally textures and thinks never look real because they aren't as random as they need to be.

As a counterpoint, the more we get used to edgy cinematography and post production (... oh I dunno... like Top Gear... pop music videos...) the easier it is for games to approach looking "real".

I'm replying using a omnia2 right now using opera and the experience is horrible. i STRONGLY suggest trying this out for yourswlf before considering purchase.

Moto Milestone has Android 2.0, Flash, and 5MP (not sure what res vid it shoots at): http://www.motorola.com/Consum ... -MILESTONE-XW-EN.vertical

Can't comment on MS doc handling 'cause I've never tried it on an Android.

Quote from TiJay :

I can find phones which tick 3 out of the 4 boxes (the Omnia II does everything except the Flash player, the Nokia E70-something has the browser...) but none which provide all 4. If anyone can help me, that'd be awesome

AFAIK Omnia II uses Opera Mobile as the browser and it does have Flash support. However it uses WinMo 6.5 which although much improved (read... more responsive) isn't really "the future" of smartphones.

I'm really not a fan of Nokia's browsing experience.

Not sure what phones have all four, but if web browsing is a priority (and it should be!!!) then try the iPhone or anything Android as a benchmark for user experience first, then go from there.

Quote from legoflamb :

I know they are not similar cars but the F1600 is the only car i can drive in the 1.0.3 demo.

I highly highly suggest trying out the v1.1 beta demo. There have been many improvements and driving experience is even better. They should make v1.1 the default download.

And I really don't understand the hang-up with the UI. In the beta its been simplified such that it takes literally 2 menu clicks to get onto the track. Really people... Its not hard. The menus in the garage could be rearranged a bit though, I agree.

Ps: I still think thread title should announce the arrival of 1.1.

Last edited by Mattesa, Wed 2 Dec 2009, 16:11.

Boy, that is punishment...

Anyway, don't forget to turn off aids... hit G, Q, T to turn off the TC, ABS, and Auto-shift.