You didnt discuss it a year ago, you hid just as you've always done. That is my problem, you never take responsibility for what you miss or wrong decisions. You penalise people for mistakes they make, but when its the other way around you just try and act like it doesnt happen. Hardly an example to set is it, maybe teams should pretend you havent given out penalties too and just ignore you like you ignore others half the time.
If you can show me an extract of where you explained how you missed the pole sitter breaking 3 rules then fine, but the fact is you didnt until about 3 months afterwards and between 2 of you one of you blatently lied, the other had the balls to own up, but those posts were deleted very quickly when i pointed out the fact that one of you was lying.
As i've said all along, you dont accept responsibility, your happy to point blame, shift blame elsewhere, but when it comes to having the balls to admit or answer to reasons behind your actions you point blank refuse in most cases, and usually for 1 reason. You explained yourself for the chatting penalties, you go strangely quiet for the westhill penalties and lack of correct/accurate penalties at this round, funnily enough its the decisions you get wrong that you refuse to talk about instead you insult people by pretending it doesnt happen.
Cawwa:
"Personaly I'm very tired of what Paul writes, since he can't let things be, bringing up a year old issues."
I didnt bring up year old issues, Hoellsen intentionally mislead everyone when someone mentioned they didnt know what the 'Westhill incidents' i'd refered was talking about to, i wasnt bothered if nobody else knew because it was never aimed at being brought up, however the fact that Hoellsen purposely mislead everyone as to what heppend i felt inclined to set the record straight because Hoellsen would rather lie and mislead people than be honest and forthcoming on these matters. He completely missed major incidents and blamed the wrong person, but pretends none of it happened and the penalty was correct.
If you'd rather pretend that this series is being run fairly and things arent being missed while people are pointing them out with ample time to correct them, then you do that, but im not going to sit back and watch the wrong people being punished, information being ignored, and similar stuff because the organiser seems to be too arrogant to check incase maybe they got something wrong.
Last round we saw Tweak spend about 4hrs going through the 2nd qual replay to make sure everyone got a fair qualifying time, this round Hoellsen cant even be arsed to check he's got his facts straight.
Its chalk and cheese. I dont expect anyone to spend hours checking stuff, but a few minutes if people point out errors might be the fair thing to do for those concerned.
But hey, screw everyone else if it doesnt affect you, thats the spirit of things.
And as for "doing it better" whats wrong with plain and simple DOING IT RIGHT!?? Apparently im the only one that has a problem with the wrong penalties being given to people, and i wouldnt mind but its not even my team or one i give a crap about, the fact is its the wrong decision and despite being told it gets ignored. Frankly those who couldnt care less i cant wait for it to happen to you, and we'll see how it feels when nobody gives a damn.
haha, just noticed that the events site registration page isnt there, its the old one sending you to the forum to register, so that solves that issue, everyone has registered via the forum method.
i'll rename the registration pages so the correct one is in place so everyone else can register via the site itself, hopefully saves a few problems, if anyone does have problems after registering via the website let me know and mention it was this method you used.
i'll rename the registration pages so the correct one is in place so everyone else can register via the site itself, hopefully saves a few problems, if anyone does have problems after registering via the website let me know and mention it was this method you used.
Right, im looking into the Registration issue atm, good news is that i've recreated the problem, now i just need to start looking at the cause of it.
Well, ive found one problem, but how its happened is a complete mystery to me, theres 2 databases, the forum was has the majority of the information and used for login stuff, the events db just get info from the forum each time you login (last visit, irrelevent stuff like that) but holds additional info like your name, team, & lfs username.
Theres a 'key' your user_id number, everyones is unique, the value increments +1 each time someone registers. The forum and events db had considerably different values, neither of which were close to what they should be, it should be at 405 for the next registration, but instead it had a 5 digit number.
Could i get some feedback from everyone, could you say where you registered (forum or lfsevents) and if its from the forum, was it in the last 24hrs or some time ago?
My guess is its the forum folk theres a problem with, old and new, i think website registration shouldnt have this issue but i could be wrong, iirc it enters the information into both databases in one run, the forum method requires a check each time everyone logs in, if your info isnt in the events db then create it. Quite a few people dont have events db entries, but some do, so i need to make sure i know which methods are working and which arent. I can see everyone has validated their accounts, so the forum will be working fine, its my side of things not playing ball
Well, ive found one problem, but how its happened is a complete mystery to me, theres 2 databases, the forum was has the majority of the information and used for login stuff, the events db just get info from the forum each time you login (last visit, irrelevent stuff like that) but holds additional info like your name, team, & lfs username.
Theres a 'key' your user_id number, everyones is unique, the value increments +1 each time someone registers. The forum and events db had considerably different values, neither of which were close to what they should be, it should be at 405 for the next registration, but instead it had a 5 digit number.
Could i get some feedback from everyone, could you say where you registered (forum or lfsevents) and if its from the forum, was it in the last 24hrs or some time ago?
My guess is its the forum folk theres a problem with, old and new, i think website registration shouldnt have this issue but i could be wrong, iirc it enters the information into both databases in one run, the forum method requires a check each time everyone logs in, if your info isnt in the events db then create it. Quite a few people dont have events db entries, but some do, so i need to make sure i know which methods are working and which arent. I can see everyone has validated their accounts, so the forum will be working fine, its my side of things not playing ball
Hoellsen:
Your pretty much doing it again, just as you always do, you shift blame and pretend things dont happen!
1) Correct, Never said differently
2) Correct, Never said differently, but IMO the if 1 person was to be penalised, fact is it shouldnt have been our car. Saying otherwise means you've got problems.
your turn:
3) The penalty was justified as being the SOLE and MAIN reason there was a multi-car pile-up? (I use 'sole' and 'main' because bawbag was the only person punished, so by your call must have been the only one doing something worthy of penalising) Right, Wrong or Pretend it didnt happen.
4) You missed the Pole sitter break THREE rules because all you cared about was finding someone to assign total blame. Doing 70-80mph in a 48mph section, slowing down to 15-18mph under a green flag situation, and typing messages during race conditions. Right, Wrong or Pretend it didnt happen.
Anything that involves questioning your decisions you wont go into full stop, you refuse to take responsibility for bad decisions. Do i expect you to reverse our penalty, no, but you could at least have the balls to review it and say you got the damn thing wrong because you didnt have the time to check and you just based the penalty on what saw in 1 run. If you'd have seen the replay from Bawbags POV you'd know he moved before others started slamming on braked down the straight. He was nothing but the last man in a chain of forced events by 1 person paying NO attention because he was too busy trying to type 'wtf!!!!' (i recall there was a typo, meaning it was hand typed not a keybind!) to have noticed the race was underway.
I just dont know how the hell you can sit there and justify missing those 3 things in the opening TEN seconds of a race, if that! What exactly are you doing if you cant spot the lead car slamming on his brakes during a green flag!?!? Honestly, do you even bother watching or do you take some pleasure out of getting things wrong?
Your also going over things i've already said a dozen times I have NO PROBLEM WITH, if chatting in qual is a rule (an unwriten one i might add!) then penalise people, but penalise EVERYONE not just those after you've issued a warning, apparently it was a rule before the warning so those people were braking the rules then, but some appear to have got away unpunished because you dont appear to have taken the time to check what people have said to you.
How can you end this??
If you dont know that then why the hell are you running this series!? Be fair, Be honest, make an effort to ensure things are fair, and dont go hiding and pretend things didnt happen when you sh*t on someone for doing nothing wrong or for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
As for not wanting to go over year old stuff, I was quite happy to leave it at 'Westhill incident' because you know EXACTLY what im talking about, but YOU as per usual decide to be deceitful (thats a fancy way of saying lie) to people when they ask what that means, you instantly start passing the incident off as being something we did wrong, of course you didnt do anything wrong did you, Hoellsen is never wrong, never ignores blatent braking of rules, and certainly doesnt go hiding and pretend these things never happens, and isnt part of a 2 man team one of which purposely lied to me about the incident a few months later claiming there was absolutely no other rules broken while the other guy came straight out and admitted sometime after the race you both discussed the incidents!
The fact that you get decisions wrong, that i can live with, the fact that you miss stuff thats pointed out to you with about 12hrs in which you can act on it, but dont, i can live with, but the fact that you get all of that wrong and when brought up you go hidding and pretend it didnt happen is just an insult to the people involved.
Oh, also, im sure half the GT2 class would like to thank you for the yellow flag messages you caused which look to have covered up their 'Green Flag' message which would explain why they just sat there and watched the other half of the GT2 pack fly right past them. Certainly saved us fighting for the 3 places we took in the blink of an eye.
Its caused distractions in the past too, why you cant just shift+s out of there at the pit entry i'll never know.
Your pretty much doing it again, just as you always do, you shift blame and pretend things dont happen!
1) Correct, Never said differently
2) Correct, Never said differently, but IMO the if 1 person was to be penalised, fact is it shouldnt have been our car. Saying otherwise means you've got problems.
your turn:
3) The penalty was justified as being the SOLE and MAIN reason there was a multi-car pile-up? (I use 'sole' and 'main' because bawbag was the only person punished, so by your call must have been the only one doing something worthy of penalising) Right, Wrong or Pretend it didnt happen.
4) You missed the Pole sitter break THREE rules because all you cared about was finding someone to assign total blame. Doing 70-80mph in a 48mph section, slowing down to 15-18mph under a green flag situation, and typing messages during race conditions. Right, Wrong or Pretend it didnt happen.
Anything that involves questioning your decisions you wont go into full stop, you refuse to take responsibility for bad decisions. Do i expect you to reverse our penalty, no, but you could at least have the balls to review it and say you got the damn thing wrong because you didnt have the time to check and you just based the penalty on what saw in 1 run. If you'd have seen the replay from Bawbags POV you'd know he moved before others started slamming on braked down the straight. He was nothing but the last man in a chain of forced events by 1 person paying NO attention because he was too busy trying to type 'wtf!!!!' (i recall there was a typo, meaning it was hand typed not a keybind!) to have noticed the race was underway.
I just dont know how the hell you can sit there and justify missing those 3 things in the opening TEN seconds of a race, if that! What exactly are you doing if you cant spot the lead car slamming on his brakes during a green flag!?!? Honestly, do you even bother watching or do you take some pleasure out of getting things wrong?
Your also going over things i've already said a dozen times I have NO PROBLEM WITH, if chatting in qual is a rule (an unwriten one i might add!) then penalise people, but penalise EVERYONE not just those after you've issued a warning, apparently it was a rule before the warning so those people were braking the rules then, but some appear to have got away unpunished because you dont appear to have taken the time to check what people have said to you.
How can you end this??
If you dont know that then why the hell are you running this series!? Be fair, Be honest, make an effort to ensure things are fair, and dont go hiding and pretend things didnt happen when you sh*t on someone for doing nothing wrong or for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
As for not wanting to go over year old stuff, I was quite happy to leave it at 'Westhill incident' because you know EXACTLY what im talking about, but YOU as per usual decide to be deceitful (thats a fancy way of saying lie) to people when they ask what that means, you instantly start passing the incident off as being something we did wrong, of course you didnt do anything wrong did you, Hoellsen is never wrong, never ignores blatent braking of rules, and certainly doesnt go hiding and pretend these things never happens, and isnt part of a 2 man team one of which purposely lied to me about the incident a few months later claiming there was absolutely no other rules broken while the other guy came straight out and admitted sometime after the race you both discussed the incidents!
The fact that you get decisions wrong, that i can live with, the fact that you miss stuff thats pointed out to you with about 12hrs in which you can act on it, but dont, i can live with, but the fact that you get all of that wrong and when brought up you go hidding and pretend it didnt happen is just an insult to the people involved.
Oh, also, im sure half the GT2 class would like to thank you for the yellow flag messages you caused which look to have covered up their 'Green Flag' message which would explain why they just sat there and watched the other half of the GT2 pack fly right past them. Certainly saved us fighting for the 3 places we took in the blink of an eye.
Its caused distractions in the past too, why you cant just shift+s out of there at the pit entry i'll never know.
Sorry about that guys, i modified the code slightly after getting it to do what i wanted it to do, it was basically a check for the 5 bits of information that it needed to ask about, it was supposed to say if the value is 5 (meaning all there) then dont bother showing the submit button, if its less than 5 show it. unfortunately the first check i used = which means the variable 'now equals', rather than == which means 'if they are equal', so it was always 5 meaning dont show ze button
Should be fixed now though.
I'll look at the forum registered folks, im wondering if the peice of code to transfer some information from the forum db to the events db is disabled, it does seem a little odd though.
Should be fixed now though.
I'll look at the forum registered folks, im wondering if the peice of code to transfer some information from the forum db to the events db is disabled, it does seem a little odd though.
You cant even tell the truth in the very post that you ask me to refrain from calling you a liar can you!!
Of course it was JUST about what happened with the mercury car, it has got nothing to do with the fact that the pole sitting car wasnt following the speed limit, he was going too fast, then brake excessively (15mph isnt 48mph!!), then went back well over the speed limit again, and then decided to type 'wtf!!!' all in a matter of about 6 seconds. Thats 3 counts of breaking the rules.
Because of all the stopping and starting, before and after the green flag message had been given his slamming on the brakes while the other cars behind were accelerating on a green flag situation, he caused the cars to bunch up and slam on their brakes when they're half way down the start straight in full race conditions. Bawbag made a move and as he was already making that move the car infront was forced to slam on the brakes and Bawbag was given 0.75sec in which to apparently timewarp back, move the right instead of left, and avoid the stupid driver who'd broken 3 rules and was driving wrecklessly. Bawbag hit the Ocrana car i think it was, it was impossible for him to react to this, but not in the eyes of 1 person, apparently he's expected to know that the move he was about to take would end in other cars slamming on their brakes down a straight, and he was judged to have caused a multiple car pile-up.
Now, if bawbag was at fault, give him a penalty, ive watched the footage over and over, and if you can honestly say that was the right decision, that bawbags actions were the cause of that incident, then you really shouldnt be admining any series!
For Bawbag to avoid that incident, he'd have needed to have known what was going to happen, he made a move which was perfectly safe, far safer than moving onto the inside line 3 abrest for a fast right hander, that or well maybe the lead car could have not slammed on the brakes?? Crazy logic i know, instead you blamed the person who was last in the chain of events, had no chance to do anything about it and was sh*t on by the lead cars actions, the penalty decision, and even on the 3 rules broke by that lead car.
Still, right or wrong, that was your decision theres little that can be done about that. I know you cant sit there and spend half an hour going over the same clip from half a dozen angles, and if im being honest i think you've watched the clip again and seen the whole thing properly and i'd hope you'd judge it differently if you could, but whatever, we took the penalty and right or wrong decision he made contact which created a pile-up and that ruined a few teams starts, but you know damn well, as you have all along that isnt where my gripe lies.
My biggest issue is the fact that you went on a witchhunt and completely missed 3 incidents from the Pole sitting car, how exactly can you say you watched that incident PROPERLY if you cant even notice someone else accelerating to about 70-80mpr before the green light, thats 150% of the speed limit, slowing down to 15mph AFTER the green light message, a THIRD of the speed limit, and even CHATTING during the race!?? Its not something you easily miss, it does come up right there on your screen and makes a noise which is typically a pretty good indication.
Why do i call *one of you* a liar (you'll note from my post earlier i never called YOU a liar, just that one of you was, and judging by the fact that your shying away from admitting incompetence that it wouldnt suprise me if it was you) because despite these issues being highlighted to you just as was the case with this chatting rule earlier today, you just hide and pretend it didnt happen, ignore the fact that you missed something because you were too busy going about your little witchunt trying to find someone to blame it all on and still managed to miss THREE cases of rule breaking that are blatently obvious to everyone else! A couple of months later you lied about the whole incident, just as your partly doing by claiming this is all about a disagreement in a penalty awarded against us, one of you 2 lied about it and the other one at the same time posted the truth, and those posts were quickly deleted, ever so conveniently, pitty you cant delete email notifications from my mailbox though isnt it!
Phil, if you get things wrong, its only human, but pretending you havent and just ignoring the fact just makes the whole thing a damn joke. You've completely ignored the fact that someone has been wrongly punished while another team has got away with nothing knowing damn well they've broke these rules, just as you did back after the Westhill round. People are trying to highlight mistakes, and your just ignoring them, how is that fair to everyone?? Its not just you, its everyone else in this series by the looks of it, because nobody else is willing to speak up and point out whats right and whats wrong, apparently they'd all rather let the cheating and injustice go on, probably because it benefits them. Unfortunately i'd rather have a fair race, so for the time being at least you'll have to put up with me highlighting anything that i feel is incorrect, or would everyone rather we ignored the rules, made everything up as we go along and just do what the heck we all feel like doing? I keep hearing people come out with 'Rules are rules', yeah, damn right they are, and they're being broken and people only seem interested in speaking up if it involves them, anyone else and its their tough luck and honestly that just stinks!
All i can say is your lucky our drivers did well today, think how 'pleasant' i'd be otherwise
And i agree with that if those are the rules anyone chatting should be penalised, the difference is i'd like to know why this rule applies to some teams and not to all! A Mercury driver chatted, he got penalised, end of story, im not debating that in the slightest, if thats the rule then its not up for debate is it. What im annoyed at is the fact that Hoellsen is intentionally disregarding the rules, its not accidental, accidents are things you do unintentionally, being informed, making some changes based on that, then ignoring everything said for 12hrs is an intentional action.
You saw it, i saw it, and Hoellsen saw it.
You acknowledged it, I acknowledged it, Hoellsen plays hear no, see no, speak no.
Its intentional disregard to following rules that he's enforcing and its a complete piss-take. There arent exceptional circumstances, they typed TWO messages, INTENTIONALLY, and nothing happens while other teams accidently press the wrong key, and they're punished.
How is the series supposed to be taken seriously when the person supposedly in charge ignores things pointed out to him well in advance of the race taking place, instead its into the shell and pretend things didnt happen, just like he did after Westhill where it took them 3 months to explain why they screwed up, one of the admins giving the truth, the other lied about the incident and MoE policies, sadly it seems the liar is the one were still left with judging by this episode.
The fact that other people just ignore the incompetence is probably worse than the decisions being made, its truely pathetic, and anyone thats happy to just sit back and allow an innocent team to be punished for what appears to be sod all, while the one that actually gets away scott free is the reason the other team got penalised should be ashamed of themselves.
Dave, considering your team were incorrectly identified as breaking the rules, and thankfully had it rectified, i'd have expected better than a 'i couldnt care less anymore' attitude seeing as you were on the end of the exact same thing. If everyone else just sat back and said 'aint my problem' how would you feel??
Cowards, cheats and liars, the bloody lot of you! Dont give a damn unless someones sh***ing on you, otherwise everyone else can FO. Must all be real proud of yourselves.
Baby-R Booking in
For the last.. 6 months or so i've been working on a website for the LFS community to use, the idea behind it is that it can help with the running of you race series, getting rid of some of the time consuming aspects and let the website effectively do all the hard work, mainly the pulling of the results from MPR files rather than manual input, and the calculation of the points for that round based on a point system assigned to that particular round. The driver and team standings are then compiled and available for all to see.
The Baby-R series is my little test dummy, with the permission of the ZWR folk who've known about this for a good few months now.
Theres still quite a few things im working on, there is currently 1 series running on the site (UFOC), which has 2 active seasons the forthcoming 'Baby-R "Fall-Out" Cup' & the currently in progress 'Baby-R Pre-season' which i've thrown in to use to test a few things before we start properly. It includes last week, yesterday, and next Thursdays results (when available :razz
and the points calculations for the 5 people currently signed up for the series from those results.
Can everyone make sure that they are registered on the website, and signed up to the Baby-R "Fall-Out" Cup (you can register to the pre-season too), this is a requirement for the series not optional.
When registering, you'll be asked to enter very basic details the site needs to function properly, If your already registered on our forum (ex-mercury forum, now 'lfshosting forum' same db) then you can use those details and log in straight away. So if you register and it says you cant use that username/email then thats almost certainly because you already have an account from way back and should be able to use that.
Once you've registered and logged in, you might be asked for a couple of details so the site functions properly for ya, these being Firstname and Surname, LFS registered name, and then Team name and Team Tag are both optional. This will only appear to those already registered via the LFS Hosting forum, these are details we dont already have from you basically. From there you can check out any active series, and sign yourself up for them. You'll be asked to provide 3 details:
Number: This is your car/race number, 0-999 is available, any already taken are automatically removed, so typically help yourself to whatever takes your fancy, however please stick to the number assigned to you for this series.
Team Name: Just as it sounds, The team name you wish to appear as in this series (ie 'Double Dutch''Mercury Old Gits'), theres a little more to it, but i'll come back to that.
Team Tag: Same as above.
With these team values, they're currently NOT displayed on the site, these are visable for the series admin, they will create a team grouping of that name, and put you in that group. It doesnt matter if one person puts 'ZWR' and another puts 'Zwarte Racing' because the admin will just create a team group and you'll both be assigned to that group. If your racing under a different name to your proper teams name, make sure you enter then name you wish to appear as in this series.
Once people start signing up then we can start creating the Constructor/Team Groups together and assigning the correct drivers to those groups. The website then totals up all points by people in that group and thats your Constructor points calculated.
Feel free to have a wander round the site, some features arent working, if you get a dead link just ignore it for now, if something doesnt appear to be working correctly (db error messages etc) then feel free to PM me or similar and let me know, but bare in mind its a site very much under construction between 5pm & 3am most days so if things start erroring that were fine moments ago, you've just busted me, im crap at coding
Website Link: http://www.lfsevents.net
The Baby-R series is my little test dummy, with the permission of the ZWR folk who've known about this for a good few months now.
Theres still quite a few things im working on, there is currently 1 series running on the site (UFOC), which has 2 active seasons the forthcoming 'Baby-R "Fall-Out" Cup' & the currently in progress 'Baby-R Pre-season' which i've thrown in to use to test a few things before we start properly. It includes last week, yesterday, and next Thursdays results (when available :razz
and the points calculations for the 5 people currently signed up for the series from those results.Can everyone make sure that they are registered on the website, and signed up to the Baby-R "Fall-Out" Cup (you can register to the pre-season too), this is a requirement for the series not optional.
When registering, you'll be asked to enter very basic details the site needs to function properly, If your already registered on our forum (ex-mercury forum, now 'lfshosting forum' same db) then you can use those details and log in straight away. So if you register and it says you cant use that username/email then thats almost certainly because you already have an account from way back and should be able to use that.
Once you've registered and logged in, you might be asked for a couple of details so the site functions properly for ya, these being Firstname and Surname, LFS registered name, and then Team name and Team Tag are both optional. This will only appear to those already registered via the LFS Hosting forum, these are details we dont already have from you basically. From there you can check out any active series, and sign yourself up for them. You'll be asked to provide 3 details:
Number: This is your car/race number, 0-999 is available, any already taken are automatically removed, so typically help yourself to whatever takes your fancy, however please stick to the number assigned to you for this series.
Team Name: Just as it sounds, The team name you wish to appear as in this series (ie 'Double Dutch''Mercury Old Gits'), theres a little more to it, but i'll come back to that.
Team Tag: Same as above.
With these team values, they're currently NOT displayed on the site, these are visable for the series admin, they will create a team grouping of that name, and put you in that group. It doesnt matter if one person puts 'ZWR' and another puts 'Zwarte Racing' because the admin will just create a team group and you'll both be assigned to that group. If your racing under a different name to your proper teams name, make sure you enter then name you wish to appear as in this series.
Once people start signing up then we can start creating the Constructor/Team Groups together and assigning the correct drivers to those groups. The website then totals up all points by people in that group and thats your Constructor points calculated.
Feel free to have a wander round the site, some features arent working, if you get a dead link just ignore it for now, if something doesnt appear to be working correctly (db error messages etc) then feel free to PM me or similar and let me know, but bare in mind its a site very much under construction between 5pm & 3am most days so if things start erroring that were fine moments ago, you've just busted me, im crap at coding
Website Link: http://www.lfsevents.net
Last edited by PaulC2K, .
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So you added to the on-going chatting that most people were completely unaware of, by deciding now your going to give the incentive of telling people your going to punish them with a rule that already supposedly exists!?
If it already exists, punish them, ALL of them, dont add to the chit chat just as much as any other individual, dont start issueing warnings that you must have known people arent going to receive, afterall the fact that half the people put blocked messages on after others started chatting (yourself included!) should be a clear indication to you that people arent going to receive this warning because they're trying to get rid of other peoples distracting yapping.
Either its rule or it isnt, if it is, dish it out fairly to everyone that has broke the rule. Fact is by your list of penalties for this round you've ignored 1 teams intentional chatting despite it being made clear to you from post #2 onwards, you had this pointed out to you by Dave and myself, along with Worm and myself pointing out that #20 had done sod all wrong, YOU ignored it. I'd like to see the screenshot of #20 chatting during the qualifying stages too, cos i dont recall that bit happening, maybe that is missing from my replay, maybe we should swap replays so you also have one which shows #16 breaking the rules twice cos it seems like we have completely different replays going by your account of things.
" PS it seems some teams challange admin decisions and rules IMO rules are rules and admins are admins, ignore them at your peril."
Dave, correct me if im wrong here, as it was you that brought this to everyones attention first.
team(16)poisti viestien esta +reply (@36mins)
If rules are rules, why isnt team #16 mentioned in that list of people penalised?? Why is it okay for them to break rules and gain places from it!? 'Ignore them at your peril' im guessing thats not aimed at Hoellsen, pitty, it should be, he's the only one ignoring rules.
Well, i was purely pointing out that you at least had the decency to stick to the rules, rather than implementing them on a 'i feel like it' basis and carelessly dishing them out to the wrong people.
A brief run through of events:
3 people post 5 messages between them, at least 3 of them intentional chat message (by 2 people), one of which (#16) is parking up to have a nice little chat to himself (literally sending himself a message!) and then obviously (its only polite) replying back to it!!
Phil decides to warn people "next chat will be a 1s penalty on the best quali time" despite the fact that most people use blocked messages so are completely unaware people are now creating new rules, Phil assumes everyone is a mindreader i guess. Very little else is posted after that, only accidental keybinds are pressed.
As a result, 1/4 of the grid are punished for a rule that never existed before the race and were completely unaware of any warning of its creation during the event, the person who had a conversation with themself gets nothing despite being a key reason for this rules creation (and having the cheak to claim 'mine was just a wrong button' afterwards), and one person gets +2sec for doing absolutely nothing!
Looks to me like #20 Worm was punished for #16's yapping, it'd certainly explain the +2 penalty that was awarded.
If its already a rule, then why is it not listed in the rules and why is it that a warning saying next chats will receive a 1sec penalty, annoyingly the only people who'd know of this warning are those who've broke the [blocking] by chatting in the first place.
#16 has got nothing for what was said before this warning, and yet people who are completely unaware of this new rule are punished!
IMO thats just a joke and completely counter-productive, how can people be punished for something they dont know is punishable, they're using [block messages] so that they dont get distracted by all the chatting and pit in/out messages, and now you want to punish those people because while hiding all the distractive messages they missed the creation of a new rule in the form of a distractive message!!
Last year in 2 races you ignored blatent rule braking incidents which involved unnecissary messages coming up on the screen, one because you were too busy on a witchhunt and ignored someone putting up 'wtf!!!' (while breaking another 2 rules which iniciated the incident), the other by someone intentionally voting to kick/ban after someone else was trying to swap drivers.
Incident #1 was just stupidity, pure & simple. Incident #2 was you deciding that someones intentional message during a race was worthy of just a warning. Now your making up new rules, Punishing people for things they've not done, and according to Daves report not punished other people who were talking.
Cant we have Tweak back, at least he stuck to the rules of the series ffs.
1 Paul Chapman (V) 20 20 20 18 20 5 9 16 16 - - - - - - 144 pts
2 Justin Parker [ZWR] 0 14 18 7 0 20 20 20 20 - - - - - - 119 pts
Looks like you need to win more meaningless races to me
2 Justin Parker [ZWR] 0 14 18 7 0 20 20 20 20 - - - - - - 119 pts
Looks like you need to win more meaningless races to me
Yes, and i have peckers jibberish on TS to thank for that roll, god only knows what he was talking about but it confused the heck out of me and i ran wide at T2 and couldnt come off the curbing cleanly for the middle section of that series of corners. My own fault for paying attention to anything he had to say
I hadnt driven since last week, and as i said to you (dru) last week, it was a pretty pointless exercise because after a couple of corners your driving on your own. After other people ahead messing about ruined my first qual lap i pitted and then considered starting at the back, but the problem is that you get lumbered with the folk at the back of the grid... obvious i know, but the driving back there is the stuff of nightmares at times
AS2R was better for me at least, i hadnt driven round there so it was all pretty new (im betting i've not done any laps there since the UF1 pre-season!) so actually racing amongst people rather than on my own was quite nice.
One thing that i did realise from being mid-pack in both those FE2R races was that most people are cheating! There didnt seem to be many laps that went by that the person infront just ploughed through the cones at T1 and just carried on regardless. Infact im pretty sure one person hit each set of cones on one lap and didnt give a hoot.
I think it was Hoiting i followed for a few laps waiting till i could make a pass (I was a lap or 2 down, as was he but it wasnt for position so i wasnt going to make an aggressive move for a non-place) and he took out the chicane cones 2 of the 3 times i followed him through there (at distance, no pressure from me being there) and it wasnt until he made a mistake at the last corner and forced me to make a stupid (clean) move just to pass him that i got by. But its disappointing that very few people seem to care about the fact that there are additional track markers in place so you know when you've taken the corner cleanly and when you've clearly cut it, and people dont seem to care that they've cut it they just carry on in ignorance or in complete disregard, one of the 2.
In past races when ive made a pass and clipped a cone i've given up the place, if its possible it was won by an advantage i shouldnt have used then its not a fair manouver, i'd never cut intentionally but 'intention' isnt the point, its the gaining for doing something wrongly (and outside the rules) and intentionally carrying on knowing that which is wrong. In qualifying if i've cut somewhere on the lap then it gets abandoned, even if its the last corner and going to ruin my next lap thats my fault.
How come very few others seems to get this? You can be sure if its done in an official round it'll be penalised, so get it out of your system now.
For those that actually want to learn how to take T1 correctly & legally, you'll actually find that its quicker than illegally ramping it over the curbing, and thats before the penalties start getting dished out for cutting.
The impression i get is that people think they should just take it flat out and eventually they'll find the correct line, but thats a pretty useless approach. First figure out how to take the corner, and do that, then go through a bit faster until you get to the point where your no longer going through cleanly, if you cant go through cleanly then going faster clearly isnt the answer.
Some of the driving is pretty poor, laptimes dont determine a good driver, just cos you can fluke a half-decent lap doesnt make you good, it makes you a hazard amongst good drivers putting in similar times, and if folk took 30min and practiced offline they'd figure out the correct way to get around the tracks much sooner, safer and produce faster times because you'd hopefully be there with the intention of improving your weaknesses rather than just driving round trying to win a meaningless race.
Supposedly yeah it will have wet weather, whether thats in online as well is another matter, but its one of the features thats been mentioned as being included in GT5 proper.
Vaguely irrellevent to the current direction this thread is heading but...
Nice
Madman_CZ: No, i understand that, i can appreciate everyone can see weaknesses in thing they like just as much as things they dont like, it just means they're not pretending everything is perfect I agree with what your saying, everything should be replicated, but the obvious things will always take precedence because the average person puts more value to it.
'Real Simulator' will always be something that gets pointed out though, damage is usually the first reason that gets brought up, but i guess you just have to accept you cant always get everything how you want it. Considering it an aspect that is widely requested rather than just the minority wanting it, its one of the few things they've yet to do that really is an important aspect. All the excuses seem a little lame to me, none convince me of anything other than the fact that they cant do it properly, originally it was the fault of the car manufacturers, then it moved onto 'the ps2 isnt powerful enough to calculate the splash damage and we want thousands of bits all over the track, we want it to be real' type excuse and they've used a bit of both this time round. Polyphony must watch glass car racing as i dont recall that many times where big crashes have sent considerable small peices of car all over the track, typically its large chunks or reasonably sized bits, never splinters.
But still, theres plenty of things that have been done to the best of their ability, not 100% perfect, and they've been happy with it, why does this 1 aspect suddenly require perfection on no-go.
Nice
Madman_CZ: No, i understand that, i can appreciate everyone can see weaknesses in thing they like just as much as things they dont like, it just means they're not pretending everything is perfect
I agree with what your saying, everything should be replicated, but the obvious things will always take precedence because the average person puts more value to it.'Real Simulator' will always be something that gets pointed out though, damage is usually the first reason that gets brought up, but i guess you just have to accept you cant always get everything how you want it. Considering it an aspect that is widely requested rather than just the minority wanting it, its one of the few things they've yet to do that really is an important aspect. All the excuses seem a little lame to me, none convince me of anything other than the fact that they cant do it properly, originally it was the fault of the car manufacturers, then it moved onto 'the ps2 isnt powerful enough to calculate the splash damage and we want thousands of bits all over the track, we want it to be real' type excuse and they've used a bit of both this time round. Polyphony must watch glass car racing as i dont recall that many times where big crashes have sent considerable small peices of car all over the track, typically its large chunks or reasonably sized bits, never splinters.
But still, theres plenty of things that have been done to the best of their ability, not 100% perfect, and they've been happy with it, why does this 1 aspect suddenly require perfection on no-go.
Actually, you'd probably be the stupid one for thinking that, only on the basis that people expect the best looking graphics on a next-gen console, most people couldnt give two hoots about deforming tyres and would never give it a moments thought.
You'd be barking up the wrong tree really, console games arent about being exact replicas of reality, they need to appeal to a wide audience, spending so much time on something 99% of those people wouldnt appreciate is stupid. Maybe the die hard sim racing fan wont consider it, but then whats new there, the sim community is tiny compared to general gaming and lets be honest, the sim community is pretty arrogant and up its own backside anyway. All games pretend their perfect, but their not and they never will be, Console titles give their audience what they think is important, pretty graphics, nice sound, and decent entertainment value, they make noises about realism and for the most part its very good, but they'll never fill in all the missing peices correctly, its not worth their while because their audience wont appreciate/notice it.
I cant wait for GT5, or prologue proper, so its not perfect, but i dont care about that, i just want to drive a F430 round nordschleife and stuff like that.
Eitherway, its all about having fun, were in the LFS Forum argueing about a game that is missing key features, anyone else choking on the irony?
Technically they can sign up on the forum now, im still actually fiddling with a few bits and peices on the proper site which have a vague impact on the user side of things, stuff thats been shortcutted on that as ive made things more intricate ive realised other aspects need to be aware of these changes and adapt to that too. So its lots of silly little things that hopefully make things more foolproof and fractionally quicker load times.
Im thinking tomorrow should be safe for people to visit the events site and then i still have 2 weeks to get a few other areas complete. 1 of which is something that has me stumped, wouldnt stop things from working but i'd prefer it different to how it currently is.
btw, the forum is linked to the site, so registering to their is identical to registering on the event site anyway, no difference at all
Hadnt thought of that but isnt the default for a ban just 3 days long anyway?
It'd be 14 days till the next meeting, and he's only banned from server 2, but yeah i see what you mean.
That suggests he'd be free to join the server now, eitherway just to be safe i've just gone in and /unban overlordkv so he should be off there eitherway
Last edited by PaulC2K, .
But if your saying that in qualifying if you crash and cant get back to the pitlane your out, then surely you have to use the same rule for the race too, or do we nick Steam's portal guns in the race?
To me it sounds contradictive if you cant shift+p in qual but you can in the race, obviously theres a more significant reason not to use it in the race, but there needs to be something fair that gives people a reason not to use it if its insisted this needs to be done. A Sin-Bin or something, make teams take a 5min penalty, you note their number and the time left on the clock and if someone exits the pits before their time is up they get a further penalty or something.
It wouldnt be hard to track who's shift+p'd during the session, although it still means nobody can go to garage to change anything once the session has begun.
If someone disconnects, are they ruled out too? afterall if you have a 'shift+p' rule then yanking out the network cable is an easy cheat, but surely anyone losing connection does just as much damage when rejoining. If people arent there when the session begins, are they refused entry, meaning a max of 48 people can be there from start to finish.
All sounds like a lot of work for what really amounts to nothing.
I cant believe it really needs answering, but how about... because it'd be stupid.
1) why force the driver to sit and drive 50 meaningless laps for the sake of about 64pts i think it would be. The guy wanted to drive, we tried to fit him into server #2 which i was adminning so that at least he was taking part, however nobody vanished so the server was full, infact i had to kick him at one point because he was hogging the place of someone that disconnected right at the end of sorting out the race line-up, then i had to ban him (it was lag-lap, but didnt want the discussion going on into the actual race start) cos despite being told there was no room he kept going on about where he was racing when he'd already been told he didnt need to as there was nobody else to race against, take the pts and watch some tv or something.
2) As an admin of the series, i can tell you it aint exactly all fun and games watching over a race that doesnt really mean an awful lot to us, its not exactly meant to i understand that, but were donating our time for the pleasure of others, and im not making someone sit in a server waiting for 1 person to finish their 50 laps for nobody!
Additionally, there was a shortage of admins for this round (what new!) and the Server #1 admin was actually racing, I was in #2, and Pecker was in #3 and it was considered slightly more important that someone was in server #1 rather than wasting their time in #3 making sure nothing happened to him.
It wont be the first time something like this happens, too many teams think it'll be fun taking part but dont realise whats involved and cant put in the commitment needed, its the same with every series, theres always plenty of people thinking how great it'd be and how they can do it, and then round by round people disappear, a couple with the decency to actually inform the organisers. Fortunately the system actually works pretty well with this, the folk in the lowest server lose out a little i guess, but if the series had fixed teams for the whole series, you'd probably notice that its not the quicker teams that arent competing, its those with no real league history, no true team commitment and such that probably would have been in the 3rd server, and that'd only encourage the other teams to quit if only half the teams were still taking part.
Personally i think a new rule needs to be introduced, that if there are less than 8 people in a server, then the race is abandoned and points are awarded by their qualifying order, or possibly only half distance is run. Its not fair on the drivers i know, but a line needs to be drawn as to what is and isnt acceptable as a 'race', and whether its worthwhile making those people (+admin) do it.
1) why force the driver to sit and drive 50 meaningless laps for the sake of about 64pts i think it would be. The guy wanted to drive, we tried to fit him into server #2 which i was adminning so that at least he was taking part, however nobody vanished so the server was full, infact i had to kick him at one point because he was hogging the place of someone that disconnected right at the end of sorting out the race line-up, then i had to ban him (it was lag-lap, but didnt want the discussion going on into the actual race start) cos despite being told there was no room he kept going on about where he was racing when he'd already been told he didnt need to as there was nobody else to race against, take the pts and watch some tv or something.
2) As an admin of the series, i can tell you it aint exactly all fun and games watching over a race that doesnt really mean an awful lot to us, its not exactly meant to i understand that, but were donating our time for the pleasure of others, and im not making someone sit in a server waiting for 1 person to finish their 50 laps for nobody!
Additionally, there was a shortage of admins for this round (what new!) and the Server #1 admin was actually racing, I was in #2, and Pecker was in #3 and it was considered slightly more important that someone was in server #1 rather than wasting their time in #3 making sure nothing happened to him.
It wont be the first time something like this happens, too many teams think it'll be fun taking part but dont realise whats involved and cant put in the commitment needed, its the same with every series, theres always plenty of people thinking how great it'd be and how they can do it, and then round by round people disappear, a couple with the decency to actually inform the organisers. Fortunately the system actually works pretty well with this, the folk in the lowest server lose out a little i guess, but if the series had fixed teams for the whole series, you'd probably notice that its not the quicker teams that arent competing, its those with no real league history, no true team commitment and such that probably would have been in the 3rd server, and that'd only encourage the other teams to quit if only half the teams were still taking part.
Personally i think a new rule needs to be introduced, that if there are less than 8 people in a server, then the race is abandoned and points are awarded by their qualifying order, or possibly only half distance is run. Its not fair on the drivers i know, but a line needs to be drawn as to what is and isnt acceptable as a 'race', and whether its worthwhile making those people (+admin) do it.
Seriously??
If you not taking the biscuit, then i can only assume its down to PAL/NTSC issues, if your TV can handle both then i dunno what problem you have, if it cant then i do know
If you not taking the biscuit, then i can only assume its down to PAL/NTSC issues, if your TV can handle both then i dunno what problem you have, if it cant then i do know
The demo's pretty good, i dont care about the fact that its not LFS, LFS isnt the bee's knees, every game has its weeknesses and strengths and if you get some pleasure out of it then wheres the harm.
In saying that, going from 8th to 1st in the first lap round Suzuka (first attempt) when theres a pair of Audi R8s and Ferrari F430s up ahead is a little dubious when your in a Nissan GTR, but visually its amazing, and its in the replays when you can look around and see so much more, for me its the inclusion of the insignificant stuff that makes it stand out. The sound is amazing, its quite something when you get alongside an F430 or even a Mustang and you can just feel the power. Only a few of the cars have in-car camera's, although 3 cars are currently locked (one of which is actually covered up, looks kinda Focus RS-esque) and will be unlocked over the next few days, but i found it quite funny that the BMW 135i had Sat Nav on the dashboard
As for 'Japan only'... dont make me laugh
I created my first US account on a mates PS3 before i even had one myself, its pretty much essential if you want the decent demo's and your in Europe as the yanks tend to get everything first as their demos are for 1 language, English, whereas the EU games need to be in 5 or more IIRC, although there have been a couple of items which have appeared to UK account holders and not say Irish, despite no language barriers.
Hopefully GT5 Prologue proper will be available worldwide before Xmas (Dec 12th in Japan, not sure if its worldwide though).
In saying that, going from 8th to 1st in the first lap round Suzuka (first attempt) when theres a pair of Audi R8s and Ferrari F430s up ahead is a little dubious when your in a Nissan GTR, but visually its amazing, and its in the replays when you can look around and see so much more, for me its the inclusion of the insignificant stuff that makes it stand out. The sound is amazing, its quite something when you get alongside an F430 or even a Mustang and you can just feel the power. Only a few of the cars have in-car camera's, although 3 cars are currently locked (one of which is actually covered up, looks kinda Focus RS-esque) and will be unlocked over the next few days, but i found it quite funny that the BMW 135i had Sat Nav on the dashboard
As for 'Japan only'... dont make me laugh
I created my first US account on a mates PS3 before i even had one myself, its pretty much essential if you want the decent demo's and your in Europe as the yanks tend to get everything first as their demos are for 1 language, English, whereas the EU games need to be in 5 or more IIRC, although there have been a couple of items which have appeared to UK account holders and not say Irish, despite no language barriers.
Hopefully GT5 Prologue proper will be available worldwide before Xmas (Dec 12th in Japan, not sure if its worldwide though).
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG