If theres nothing saying you must have 2 wheels on the track at all times, then i say leave things as they are.
If the ruling is must have 2+ wheels on tarmac then i think there should be barriers put in place to remove any doubt and accusations of it happening.
We've just raced round somewhere with barriers all the way around, so i dont see why it should cause a problem putting 1 diaganal barrier there to mark the limits. I say 1 barrier (concrete) so that incase the sh*t hits the fan then theres room for someone to grass it round the ourside and come back on.
Personally i think its pretty silly to try and stop it if people are using it, however an official decision needs to be made ASAP because making a decision at the last minute isnt acceptable, and any layouts need sharing to allow an even playing field.
There is no rule saying 2 wheels on track at all times, and if there are future tracks where this is going to be a problem can it be looked into immediately and solutions be found so as few questions are being asked for this sort of situation.
If the ruling is must have 2+ wheels on tarmac then i think there should be barriers put in place to remove any doubt and accusations of it happening.
We've just raced round somewhere with barriers all the way around, so i dont see why it should cause a problem putting 1 diaganal barrier there to mark the limits. I say 1 barrier (concrete) so that incase the sh*t hits the fan then theres room for someone to grass it round the ourside and come back on.
Personally i think its pretty silly to try and stop it if people are using it, however an official decision needs to be made ASAP because making a decision at the last minute isnt acceptable, and any layouts need sharing to allow an even playing field.
There is no rule saying 2 wheels on track at all times, and if there are future tracks where this is going to be a problem can it be looked into immediately and solutions be found so as few questions are being asked for this sort of situation.
reading after the first page would have concluded that your GT2 cars arent the same as the GT2 cars being suggested. The MoE GT2 class would be restricted GT1 cars, ie slower GTRs, slower by 5% (4sec on a 90sec lap).
What i would say about your comment that they're moving obsticals is that they're entitled to drive the ideal line and you are to pass them, they arent under any obligation to make it easy for you, im sure they will when circumstances make it possible but they wont come off the racing line to allow you the simple life because they dont have to. With GT2 class cars in LFS GT the cars are about 6-8 sec a lap slower, considerably so down straights, the proposed restricted GTRs for MoE wouldnt be anywhere near as slow, so if anything the moving obsticles are faster and harder to get around. Previously a straight strip would allow the GT1 car to go round the GT2 car without any trouble, but the faster the obsticle the more time it takes to get around them.
God/Bad/Indifferent, it'll be harder to overtake a restricted GTR car than a XFR/UFR because cornering speeds will be identical (same weight, tyres & aero) all they will lack is acceleration and straight line speed. You could argue the GT2 class would remove more DF to get the speeds up, making them slower in corners (marginally) but now they'd be faster in a straight line, one of the areas the GT1s would have a natural advantage in.
Doesnt mean they cant or should be allowed, but it will make for some problems, passing backmarker GT1 cars would be easier than some GT2 cars because the backmarkers are under obligation to move over within reasonable time.
What i would say about your comment that they're moving obsticals is that they're entitled to drive the ideal line and you are to pass them, they arent under any obligation to make it easy for you, im sure they will when circumstances make it possible but they wont come off the racing line to allow you the simple life because they dont have to. With GT2 class cars in LFS GT the cars are about 6-8 sec a lap slower, considerably so down straights, the proposed restricted GTRs for MoE wouldnt be anywhere near as slow, so if anything the moving obsticles are faster and harder to get around. Previously a straight strip would allow the GT1 car to go round the GT2 car without any trouble, but the faster the obsticle the more time it takes to get around them.
God/Bad/Indifferent, it'll be harder to overtake a restricted GTR car than a XFR/UFR because cornering speeds will be identical (same weight, tyres & aero) all they will lack is acceleration and straight line speed. You could argue the GT2 class would remove more DF to get the speeds up, making them slower in corners (marginally) but now they'd be faster in a straight line, one of the areas the GT1s would have a natural advantage in.
Doesnt mean they cant or should be allowed, but it will make for some problems, passing backmarker GT1 cars would be easier than some GT2 cars because the backmarkers are under obligation to move over within reasonable time.
Okay, np. I'd already calculated things and as we'd had a couple of unofficial race results figured there was no foul in putting the unofficial results into an unofficial standing based on that info.
I'll just put them on our forum and correct anything that is considered incorrect by the panel when that is done
Everyone else will just have to wait 
I'll just put them on our forum and correct anything that is considered incorrect by the panel when that is done
Everyone else will just have to wait Standings using unofficial results:
Div1
Pecker - 111pts
Viper - 94
Rooble - 81
Paulie - 78
Mikey - 75
Kaw - 72
McIntyreJ - 53
Mr_X - 42
Hotmail - 32
Moose - 20
Team Standings:
(V) Young Un's - 192pts
(V) Old Farts - 172
ZWR #1 - 107
Fusion - 93
Dynomoose - 84
ATC - 0
Moo - 0
Thats assuming 5pt FL's and 5/3/1 for first in 3 qual, no mention of them changing even though it was suggested it would be, however FL would only modify Peckers lead at the top, qual points wouldnt change anything unless they were made more, which wasnt what was suggested might be happening.
Div2 (unofficial and without pole/FL points, cant do what i dont know)
Anttt - 99pts
Dru - 96
Der Butz - 71
Tonguey - 68
MasterD - 62
Tfalke - 59
Tomhah - 58
Santa - 55
FOGlegsy - 54
totx - 46
Thunder - 28
Team Standings:
ZWR #2 - 168pts
Team 11 - 145
Piston - 109
excite - ??
yourforum - ??
(couldnt tell if some of the names were part of teams as it wasnt as listed on the D2 drivers thread)
When we're quick in the races, were quick with the stats
When we suck in the races, dont expect no stats
Div1
Pecker - 111pts
Viper - 94
Rooble - 81
Paulie - 78
Mikey - 75
Kaw - 72
McIntyreJ - 53
Mr_X - 42
Hotmail - 32
Moose - 20
Team Standings:
(V) Young Un's - 192pts
(V) Old Farts - 172
ZWR #1 - 107
Fusion - 93
Dynomoose - 84
ATC - 0
Moo - 0
Thats assuming 5pt FL's and 5/3/1 for first in 3 qual, no mention of them changing even though it was suggested it would be, however FL would only modify Peckers lead at the top, qual points wouldnt change anything unless they were made more, which wasnt what was suggested might be happening.
Div2 (unofficial and without pole/FL points, cant do what i dont know)
Anttt - 99pts
Dru - 96
Der Butz - 71
Tonguey - 68
MasterD - 62
Tfalke - 59
Tomhah - 58
Santa - 55
FOGlegsy - 54
totx - 46
Thunder - 28
Team Standings:
ZWR #2 - 168pts
Team 11 - 145
Piston - 109
excite - ??
yourforum - ??
(couldnt tell if some of the names were part of teams as it wasnt as listed on the D2 drivers thread)
When we're quick in the races, were quick with the stats
When we suck in the races, dont expect no stats
Last edited by PaulC2K, .
Reason : added Div2 stats and cheeky comment ;)
Tweak, im pretty sure he's not refering either using or making the FWDs faster, but just using them as a reference point.
Using your guestimated times, with a 4 sec gap between classes, you'd be lapping a GT2 class car after 25 laps round a 1m 40 track, tracks like Blackwood would be very tight and you'd probably be passing/lapping about 1.5 cars per lap, but on the KY3 track and huge Aston layouts its not going to be as bad.
I can imagine 70% more cars going round ickle old Blackwood will be quite a task.
Using your guestimated times, with a 4 sec gap between classes, you'd be lapping a GT2 class car after 25 laps round a 1m 40 track, tracks like Blackwood would be very tight and you'd probably be passing/lapping about 1.5 cars per lap, but on the KY3 track and huge Aston layouts its not going to be as bad.
I can imagine 70% more cars going round ickle old Blackwood will be quite a task.
If its just a case of taking the skins off here and putting them together then i can do that for you and host them, and wouldnt be done on some shi**y file sharing site. I have about 40gb of bandwidth going untouched on 2 lots of hosting accounts, will be adding a 3rd in about a months time too.
Incidently the files i attached are pretty much useless, i'll have to re-upload them as LFSW will overwrite them with 512 versions as i made the 1024 sized skin straight after, meaning that file is the newest so it gives you the newest version... which sux
updated version of our skins
http://mercuryracingteam.com/images/skins/UF1_skins.rar
Incidently the files i attached are pretty much useless, i'll have to re-upload them as LFSW will overwrite them with 512 versions as i made the 1024 sized skin straight after, meaning that file is the newest so it gives you the newest version... which sux
updated version of our skins
http://mercuryracingteam.com/images/skins/UF1_skins.rar
Last edited by PaulC2K, .
I would have thought 400bhp would have a little high too, if the 90bhp difference equates to a guestimate of 4 seconds slower, then dropping another 50 should be 2sec per lap.
My only concern with car balancing is that it actually ends up being balanced, and that a fastest lap isnt the sole peice of information. It seems the FXR gets f*cked over because its AWD and considered so easy to drive it cannot possibly have the same bph/ton value, but everything should be taken into account, fuel consumption, tyre wear, acceleration, top speed, AND the ease to drive.
It was the slack balancing in the first place that screwed things from the beginning and the tyre changes just extended them further.
If they end up being balanced hot-lap wise but one car can only go 45min on a tyres/fuel and another can only go 50min on tyres/fuel while the another can stretch the full hour, then that isnt balanced. Some things cant be measured, but things like acceleration & top speed can make a car considerably easier to pass others with.
Hopefully everything will be considered and the results will be balanced cars, otherwise this whole thing is a waste of everyones time and we might as well go back to a 95% FZR grid and enjoy the weather.
My only concern with car balancing is that it actually ends up being balanced, and that a fastest lap isnt the sole peice of information. It seems the FXR gets f*cked over because its AWD and considered so easy to drive it cannot possibly have the same bph/ton value, but everything should be taken into account, fuel consumption, tyre wear, acceleration, top speed, AND the ease to drive.
It was the slack balancing in the first place that screwed things from the beginning and the tyre changes just extended them further.
If they end up being balanced hot-lap wise but one car can only go 45min on a tyres/fuel and another can only go 50min on tyres/fuel while the another can stretch the full hour, then that isnt balanced. Some things cant be measured, but things like acceleration & top speed can make a car considerably easier to pass others with.
Hopefully everything will be considered and the results will be balanced cars, otherwise this whole thing is a waste of everyones time and we might as well go back to a 95% FZR grid and enjoy the weather.
Mercury Skins:
Youngies = Mercury Young Uns, Pecker & Rooble
Oldies = Mercury Old Farts, Viper & PaulC2K
Youngies = Mercury Young Uns, Pecker & Rooble
Oldies = Mercury Old Farts, Viper & PaulC2K
Last edited by PaulC2K, .
Reverse grid race shouldnt be too bad, at least its not on SO3R!! I think that track has enough places to make a move but most of them spots can be defended and unless you make a mess doing so chances are you'll still come out with the placing, but we shall see, im sure passing will be done in the 2nd race, especially having the reversed grid and the (probably) slower cars ahead it will hopefully see the guys at the back able to work there way through some of the pack. My biggest concern is going to be silly mistakes, stuff that isnt intentional but causes trouble, particularly weaving cars down the motorway strip trying to lose the car behind and contact being made because of it. The way i see it is if someone is close enough to be in my slipstream then its their right to use it and mine to defend my position, but driving dangerously to stop the car behind from using it isnt fair racing, by all means change line but you cant do it over and over.
Worth the risk?
Risk is what makes it all fun, keeps you on your toes
I think most will try and take as many points as they can, they already have double points from the previous race, thats bagged, so the 2nd race will be a combination of pushing for more points and driving sensibly to build upon the points you already have rather than risking a 0 or low scoring.
Worth the risk?
Risk is what makes it all fun, keeps you on your toes
I think most will try and take as many points as they can, they already have double points from the previous race, thats bagged, so the 2nd race will be a combination of pushing for more points and driving sensibly to build upon the points you already have rather than risking a 0 or low scoring.
so YOUR the Kenneth bugging the hell out of me on MSN?
That was from 1st of April (guess i was the fool) and suddenly its not Puma its Prawler Motorsports and a 10 week old team?
Eitherway, no offense is meant in this opinion (and its not directed particularly at you & your team), but if MoE started taking any Tom, Dick n Harry who'd had the brainwave idea to start a new team (heck, theres so few of them!) and take part in all the big series, then im pretty sure half the teams would just walk away and start looking for something which is maybe rather elitist, but somewhere that the best teams can race together, not somewhere that anyone can turn up in this weeks team and play with the big boys.
You cant expect to just waltz into a series like MoE, it'd be like making a pub team and asking UEFA if you can be in the Champions League. Concerntraite on building yourself up before even considering putting yourself forward for a team event requiring at bare minimum of 4 dedicated drivers. Start with something simple like BOTT or something that you can learn from, gain some experience and something that shows you have what it takes, you cant just pick a few guys and say here we are. IGTC is a start, but that alone may not be enough to prove that you have the dedication, experience, ability and race sense to be on the track with everyone else in a series thats taken seriously.
Even Mercury wasnt given a guarantee'd slot when they had a couple of spaces for Round 2, we were given a trial run and despite finishing 4th in our first race we were still on a reserve list for the next race.
As my earlier post said, i dont believe there are more than about 25 teams willing and suitable for MoE, and having seen the list of 50 possible teams (including PRWL!!) I think that seems to be the case still.
Im all for big grids and less of the quiet spells, but there needs to be a standard maintained. Something like the old F1 107% qualification rule, but with obvious suitability checks done beforehand. The other issue is that 1 driver can be great, the rest can be n00bs who are a risk to anyone that dares to go near them. Hopefully MoE will start with just those who have been clean and controlled in last seasons LFS-GT or have a bloody good track record elsewhere before throwing them straight into MoE proper, the rest can prove themselves in LFS GT and when deemed able can be moved up if spaces are available.
Incidently, i was wondering now the servers have a ton of race slots and spectator slots, is there any possibility of allowing teams to nominate a single team manager per round who's allowed into the server to spectate? (maybe 2, working in shifts, during the 24hr race)
I remember Vykos saying something i felt i could relate to, in that i really enjoyed being there helping to relay information back to the driver via LFS Spectator and the MoE Tracker, and i dunno about all the other teams but im thinking if we can keep Vykos off the grey stuff and sidelined as team director we all have a better chance
That was from 1st of April (guess i was the fool) and suddenly its not Puma its Prawler Motorsports and a 10 week old team?
Eitherway, no offense is meant in this opinion (and its not directed particularly at you & your team), but if MoE started taking any Tom, Dick n Harry who'd had the brainwave idea to start a new team (heck, theres so few of them!) and take part in all the big series, then im pretty sure half the teams would just walk away and start looking for something which is maybe rather elitist, but somewhere that the best teams can race together, not somewhere that anyone can turn up in this weeks team and play with the big boys.
You cant expect to just waltz into a series like MoE, it'd be like making a pub team and asking UEFA if you can be in the Champions League. Concerntraite on building yourself up before even considering putting yourself forward for a team event requiring at bare minimum of 4 dedicated drivers. Start with something simple like BOTT or something that you can learn from, gain some experience and something that shows you have what it takes, you cant just pick a few guys and say here we are. IGTC is a start, but that alone may not be enough to prove that you have the dedication, experience, ability and race sense to be on the track with everyone else in a series thats taken seriously.
Even Mercury wasnt given a guarantee'd slot when they had a couple of spaces for Round 2, we were given a trial run and despite finishing 4th in our first race we were still on a reserve list for the next race.
As my earlier post said, i dont believe there are more than about 25 teams willing and suitable for MoE, and having seen the list of 50 possible teams (including PRWL!!) I think that seems to be the case still.
Im all for big grids and less of the quiet spells, but there needs to be a standard maintained. Something like the old F1 107% qualification rule, but with obvious suitability checks done beforehand. The other issue is that 1 driver can be great, the rest can be n00bs who are a risk to anyone that dares to go near them. Hopefully MoE will start with just those who have been clean and controlled in last seasons LFS-GT or have a bloody good track record elsewhere before throwing them straight into MoE proper, the rest can prove themselves in LFS GT and when deemed able can be moved up if spaces are available.
Incidently, i was wondering now the servers have a ton of race slots and spectator slots, is there any possibility of allowing teams to nominate a single team manager per round who's allowed into the server to spectate? (maybe 2, working in shifts, during the 24hr race)
I remember Vykos saying something i felt i could relate to, in that i really enjoyed being there helping to relay information back to the driver via LFS Spectator and the MoE Tracker, and i dunno about all the other teams but im thinking if we can keep Vykos off the grey stuff and sidelined as team director we all have a better chance
Yes, Tis true, I am Bawbag, unfortunately whenever both BawBag and PaulC2K are on the track i spend more focus on the BawBag user than the PaulC2K one, which is why PaulC2K is so slow and crashes into everything.
When they're not on the track at the same time i have to keep up the act, its only fair.
Wow, what a weight of my shoulders
Well Random Combo Generator sure loves the brown stuff!
RX, RX, Oval, Track, RX, RX, Oval, RX
Whoever wrote that script should give themselves a serious kick up the arse!!
Im all for restarting things in October, give everyone a break, spend some time coming up with some solid rules and get things nailed down tighter so theres less confusion and everything is black and white instead of having grey areas.
One rule i'd love to see banished is the allowance of people disconnecting, going and watching a bit of TV, bite to eat and take a dump and then right at the end deciding to abuse a rule allowing people to rejoin if they lost connection to the server in order to take points they're not entitled to/worthy of. Anyway, thats for another thread.
At the risk of repeating myself, i just think as you just said, keep things simple and get the series underway, dont overly complicate things and see what happens. try to avoid possible complications and problems that may arrise, but all in all see what happens and learn from it, you only figure these things out by trying them and seeing what happens. Most of the changes ive agreed with, but then a few have seemed needless, tweaking for the sake of tweaking.
Wind or no wind, it wont make or break the series, its an insignificant detail which i like many will have an opinion on, but unless those opinions hold enough weight to warrent any changes, stick to your decisions. I dont want to see wind there, but what i dont want is 1 persons opinions making this series something you dont want it to be.
Im not trying to be negative about the series or suggest its a huge problem, im just pointing out what i see (and hear) as being a bit frustraiting, not in a 'f*ck this im off!' way but in a 'now what?' way. Lets try and stick with things said and go with that unless it has to be changed, it leads to less confusion for everyone as the fewer things changed the more likely people are to know the score.
Wind or no wind, it wont make or break the series, its an insignificant detail which i like many will have an opinion on, but unless those opinions hold enough weight to warrent any changes, stick to your decisions. I dont want to see wind there, but what i dont want is 1 persons opinions making this series something you dont want it to be.
Im not trying to be negative about the series or suggest its a huge problem, im just pointing out what i see (and hear) as being a bit frustraiting, not in a 'f*ck this im off!' way but in a 'now what?' way. Lets try and stick with things said and go with that unless it has to be changed, it leads to less confusion for everyone as the fewer things changed the more likely people are to know the score.
The problem with wind is that you cannot control it, and you cannot predict or force it to be a specific way.
Take the none-SO tracks, Round 2 for instance.
15min Qualifying, wind is 5mph blowing NE
25 lap race, wind is 10mph blowing SE
12 lap race, wind is 8mph blowing SW
That wouldnt happen on a race day, the wind direction would be known before the lights went red, instead unless there are flags either side of the start grid or before the first corner you have little information about the conditions. If you can guarantee the wind will be even throughout qual and both races then thats fair enough, but entering into the unknown, reversed grids... is that a good combination?
If you want to run with different moods with the sky n stuff, that doesnt effect things, so i dont see why that couldnt be done, but unpredictable variables i'd rather see avoided.
Still, im not saying dont have wind, my opinion is that its a trouble causer, but thats just my opinion. How things were this afternoon with all the South City tracks having no wind and the others having low wind at least that was simple to follow, but its the constant changing of changes that just needs limiting to issues that need it. If you want something, enforce it, but stick with your judgement calls unless it has to be changed, thats my only moan. Im not bothered if we have to run wind, i have my opinion and thats it, its great if its taken on board but you have to take a stand on things that you believe are fine and stick to your gun. If someone points out a problem then by all means dont stick with things on principle, find a solution that fits and put an end to it.
Its your league to run how you want, im just speaking as a entrant with an opinion, i wouldnt want rules being changed backwards and forwards everytime someone else asked for something to be changed for the sake of it, and i wouldnt expect this to be granted for me. Just run with what you have and dont worry about small things, just stick with what you believe in for as long as its viable.
Take the none-SO tracks, Round 2 for instance.
15min Qualifying, wind is 5mph blowing NE
25 lap race, wind is 10mph blowing SE
12 lap race, wind is 8mph blowing SW
That wouldnt happen on a race day, the wind direction would be known before the lights went red, instead unless there are flags either side of the start grid or before the first corner you have little information about the conditions. If you can guarantee the wind will be even throughout qual and both races then thats fair enough, but entering into the unknown, reversed grids... is that a good combination?
If you want to run with different moods with the sky n stuff, that doesnt effect things, so i dont see why that couldnt be done, but unpredictable variables i'd rather see avoided.
Still, im not saying dont have wind, my opinion is that its a trouble causer, but thats just my opinion. How things were this afternoon with all the South City tracks having no wind and the others having low wind at least that was simple to follow, but its the constant changing of changes that just needs limiting to issues that need it. If you want something, enforce it, but stick with your judgement calls unless it has to be changed, thats my only moan. Im not bothered if we have to run wind, i have my opinion and thats it, its great if its taken on board but you have to take a stand on things that you believe are fine and stick to your gun. If someone points out a problem then by all means dont stick with things on principle, find a solution that fits and put an end to it.
Its your league to run how you want, im just speaking as a entrant with an opinion, i wouldnt want rules being changed backwards and forwards everytime someone else asked for something to be changed for the sake of it, and i wouldnt expect this to be granted for me. Just run with what you have and dont worry about small things, just stick with what you believe in for as long as its viable.
So now only 2 of 9 races have no wind?? why not just have all of them with wind then, clearly thats what you guys want and despite the fact that it makes things unpredictable and fairly impossible to practice for something that isnt constant, its certainly less of a moving chicane than nearly everything being modified every day.
Personally im getting a little tired with the constant **needless tweaking** of things, if it needs doing then fair enough but you have to take everything with a pinch of salt right now because in 24hrs time it could be completely different, nothing seems to be consistant and the goals keep moving.
Dont get me wrong, im fully behind fixing things or adding things that may be required, but i have to be honest and say im getting fed up of seeing one thing one minute and something else the next.
I know you guys want to get everything right, and thats great, but this series has gone round in so many circles since the sign-up started that im getting dizzy. Make a decision and unless it has to be changed lets stick to it.
Personally im getting a little tired with the constant **needless tweaking** of things, if it needs doing then fair enough but you have to take everything with a pinch of salt right now because in 24hrs time it could be completely different, nothing seems to be consistant and the goals keep moving.
Dont get me wrong, im fully behind fixing things or adding things that may be required, but i have to be honest and say im getting fed up of seeing one thing one minute and something else the next.
I know you guys want to get everything right, and thats great, but this series has gone round in so many circles since the sign-up started that im getting dizzy. Make a decision and unless it has to be changed lets stick to it.
Sounds good, glad they're being announced before the events rather than when everyone turns up, it just means nobody can complain they werent prepared for this.
Same as Mikey, easily doing averages of 49.5-49.8 and if anything the setup gets stronger as the laps go by. 49.42 is my pb, maybe .41 and thats with the race setup after like 20-30 laps.
I think its going to be a round where either theres going to be a lot of carnage as people try moves that just arent sensible or its going to be a car train with just one or 2 managing to pull away from the train and put clean laps in without needing to drive defensively. The only places passes can be made cleanly round SO3R is if the guy infront comes out of the bus-stop badly and a pass is initiated on the up-hill, any later and i dont think it'll end well. Coming into the bus-stop might be another place, but only if theres contact with the wall just before crossing the line. Everywhere else has trouble wrote all over it.
SO2 should be interesting, less corners for a mistake to happen but easier & safer places to trade positions.
I think its going to be a round where either theres going to be a lot of carnage as people try moves that just arent sensible or its going to be a car train with just one or 2 managing to pull away from the train and put clean laps in without needing to drive defensively. The only places passes can be made cleanly round SO3R is if the guy infront comes out of the bus-stop badly and a pass is initiated on the up-hill, any later and i dont think it'll end well. Coming into the bus-stop might be another place, but only if theres contact with the wall just before crossing the line. Everywhere else has trouble wrote all over it.
SO2 should be interesting, less corners for a mistake to happen but easier & safer places to trade positions.
lol @ all of you
Yeah, i think having too big a margin gets too much at the Endurance round. One thing that does seem odd though is that based on last nights results i'd be 3rd overall, i came 2nd and about 14th (felt like 114th!) however having people im not really racing for points in there probably confuses matters, as it has done for Ant.
Ant, you were only racing with Div2 drivers really, you may have been say 8th on the track but if only 2 of those ahead of you were Div2 drivers then thats been scored as a 3rd place finish.
Of the 2 races according to Dru you were the highest and 3rd highest finisher of the Division 2 drivers, so thats what you were scored on.
When we race properly you'll be racing only with Div2 drivers, yesterday was just a mixed bag, so roughly half the people in there you'll never race with. You probably didnt finish ahead of pecker in either race so you couldnt have beat him like for like, the scoring between divisions isnt comparetive at all.
Dru, i have to ask, but are those scores correct?
35 for a Sprint race win, x2 for Feature
So Pecker would have got 70pts from race 1, then 23/26/29 for race 2.
Im ignoring qual bonus points and fastest laps, but I dont see where 71pts comes from tbh (70 for race 1, 1pt for race 2?)
What am i missing/misunderstanding?
edit:
it adds up correct on the previous scoring, but not on the proposed points and the ones quoted in here.
the 40pts for 1st in feature scoring makes 71 for: Q2 + Win + FL & 3rd + FL (3 + 40 + 5 & 28 + 5)
Yeah, i think having too big a margin gets too much at the Endurance round. One thing that does seem odd though is that based on last nights results i'd be 3rd overall, i came 2nd and about 14th (felt like 114th!) however having people im not really racing for points in there probably confuses matters, as it has done for Ant.
Ant, you were only racing with Div2 drivers really, you may have been say 8th on the track but if only 2 of those ahead of you were Div2 drivers then thats been scored as a 3rd place finish.
Of the 2 races according to Dru you were the highest and 3rd highest finisher of the Division 2 drivers, so thats what you were scored on.
When we race properly you'll be racing only with Div2 drivers, yesterday was just a mixed bag, so roughly half the people in there you'll never race with. You probably didnt finish ahead of pecker in either race so you couldnt have beat him like for like, the scoring between divisions isnt comparetive at all.
Dru, i have to ask, but are those scores correct?
35 for a Sprint race win, x2 for Feature
So Pecker would have got 70pts from race 1, then 23/26/29 for race 2.
Im ignoring qual bonus points and fastest laps, but I dont see where 71pts comes from tbh (70 for race 1, 1pt for race 2?)
What am i missing/misunderstanding?
edit:
it adds up correct on the previous scoring, but not on the proposed points and the ones quoted in here.
the 40pts for 1st in feature scoring makes 71 for: Q2 + Win + FL & 3rd + FL (3 + 40 + 5 & 28 + 5)
Last edited by PaulC2K, .
'less points == less risk taking'
If this season is going to be close racing through till the final, every point is going to be important. I dont think anyone will have the outlook that its only for half the points, 70 points are still up for grabs for the winner, and while the difference in points makes it less important, i dont think anyone takes it easy because theres less points, you want to get the most of what is on offer, its the racing attitude.
All that is needed is a clean and fair attitude to be applied with that.
re: Wind
Not a big fan, i can see the arguments for having it, but also see the negative. If wind is an absolute must, then for the love of god keep it at low.
You may argue no wind makes it sterile, but i'd counter with having wind removes a element of knowledge, throws things a little into the region of guesswork when you throw in random factors. Sometimes it isnt a huge problem, yesterday driving down the straight and the car barely needing to be in 4th gear just becomes stupid.
Having just checked the rules and race dates & locations thread, neither suggest wind is going to be applied, so i dont think its unfair for people to question it in the server, that would have been the first time they'd have known it would be applied.
If you want wind, then fair enough, but let keep it at low because htting 30mph winds head on down the straights was dull yesterday (wednesday) and the previous qual before it had side winds doings its best to push you off at the fast chicane. Realism is great, but having races with wind every race isnt realism, its like having all races with rain because it can rain.
maybe we could compromise, have wind at some tracks and not at others?
I'd rather have none, but could live with having low at all, but mixing it up would be more realistic than saying every race has noticable wind.
If this season is going to be close racing through till the final, every point is going to be important. I dont think anyone will have the outlook that its only for half the points, 70 points are still up for grabs for the winner, and while the difference in points makes it less important, i dont think anyone takes it easy because theres less points, you want to get the most of what is on offer, its the racing attitude.
All that is needed is a clean and fair attitude to be applied with that.
re: Wind
Not a big fan, i can see the arguments for having it, but also see the negative. If wind is an absolute must, then for the love of god keep it at low.
You may argue no wind makes it sterile, but i'd counter with having wind removes a element of knowledge, throws things a little into the region of guesswork when you throw in random factors. Sometimes it isnt a huge problem, yesterday driving down the straight and the car barely needing to be in 4th gear just becomes stupid.
Having just checked the rules and race dates & locations thread, neither suggest wind is going to be applied, so i dont think its unfair for people to question it in the server, that would have been the first time they'd have known it would be applied.
If you want wind, then fair enough, but let keep it at low because htting 30mph winds head on down the straights was dull yesterday (wednesday) and the previous qual before it had side winds doings its best to push you off at the fast chicane. Realism is great, but having races with wind every race isnt realism, its like having all races with rain because it can rain.
maybe we could compromise, have wind at some tracks and not at others?
I'd rather have none, but could live with having low at all, but mixing it up would be more realistic than saying every race has noticable wind.
Agreed on what Dru said, i think Division 1 should be able to moderate itself reasonably well, it'll be competitive in there so there might be some hard driving but im hoping it wont be stupid wreckless stuff as was witnessed in the 2nd race.
I have no idea how it compared to the first, i'd *imagine* that has a far greater tendancy to run smoothly as its in order of fastest lap from qual, but turning the table on a pack of Div1 and Div2 drivers it was never going to be easy because you can never really know what they're going to do sometimes, i seemed to get caught up in every single incident that happened near me because I either couldnt avoid being collected or i'd slow just enough and someone else would go barrelling into me.
While that race really pi**ed me off at least i know come the start of the season i shouldnt have to worry about bad driving. My only concern is the short race being in reverse order, it kinda rewards the lucky and kicks the others in the teeth. The ones previously leading have to work through everyone in about 3 laps less than the feature race, 1 mistake sets you back quite a bit.
At least its half points and not the same, but i can see its going to be tricky getting through 15 fast drivers particularly for round 1 race 2 at South City Sprint 1, theres few opportunities to move through the field and if you dont make every move without holdup you're gonna get monstered.
Still, its the first season, we'll only know how it all plays out once we've all got a season under our belt, both drivers and organisers, so i wouldnt go as far as saying it needs reviewing, i just see it being a potential for the slower lot to really be a pain in the arse for the previous race winner (this practice round asside, which i think i must have sleep-bribed everyone, chances i'll be one of the slow people causing so much frustration )
I have no idea how it compared to the first, i'd *imagine* that has a far greater tendancy to run smoothly as its in order of fastest lap from qual, but turning the table on a pack of Div1 and Div2 drivers it was never going to be easy because you can never really know what they're going to do sometimes, i seemed to get caught up in every single incident that happened near me because I either couldnt avoid being collected or i'd slow just enough and someone else would go barrelling into me.
While that race really pi**ed me off at least i know come the start of the season i shouldnt have to worry about bad driving. My only concern is the short race being in reverse order, it kinda rewards the lucky and kicks the others in the teeth. The ones previously leading have to work through everyone in about 3 laps less than the feature race, 1 mistake sets you back quite a bit.
At least its half points and not the same, but i can see its going to be tricky getting through 15 fast drivers particularly for round 1 race 2 at South City Sprint 1, theres few opportunities to move through the field and if you dont make every move without holdup you're gonna get monstered.
Still, its the first season, we'll only know how it all plays out once we've all got a season under our belt, both drivers and organisers, so i wouldnt go as far as saying it needs reviewing, i just see it being a potential for the slower lot to really be a pain in the arse for the previous race winner
(this practice round asside, which i think i must have sleep-bribed everyone, chances i'll be one of the slow people causing so much frustration )Im pretty sure 3 of the 4 Mercury guys will be there in the Div1 server, just need to bully Viper into doing it even though he was getting pi**ed off with the track last night. Im sure he'll take part if only to stop me from moaning at him.
i'd also like to clarify my previous comments incase there was misunderstanding as to whether or not i was moaning.
Incase it wasnt clear, i was moaning, im always moaning, cos im a moaning old sod!
hope that clarifies the matter so theres no confusions
Yeah, points sounds fine, and i think triple points for the Enduro sounds right, and very similar to what i believe the V8 Supercar series does (possibly others too?) where every round has the same maximum points available to it, but it may be split between 1 long race, 2 medium or 3 shorter races, eitherway the maximum points scored would be about 360.
Im sure whatever the point system is its going to be close throughout the season, the only thing i found odd before was the awarding of a large number of points for fastest lap, it seemed to promote pushing for fastest lap a lot more than it did for keeping the series close, but with the comments made by Dru i sense that isnt going to be such a big bonus once fine tuned.
Incase it wasnt clear, i was moaning, im always moaning, cos im a moaning old sod!
hope that clarifies the matter so theres no confusions
Yeah, points sounds fine, and i think triple points for the Enduro sounds right, and very similar to what i believe the V8 Supercar series does (possibly others too?) where every round has the same maximum points available to it, but it may be split between 1 long race, 2 medium or 3 shorter races, eitherway the maximum points scored would be about 360.
Im sure whatever the point system is its going to be close throughout the season, the only thing i found odd before was the awarding of a large number of points for fastest lap, it seemed to promote pushing for fastest lap a lot more than it did for keeping the series close, but with the comments made by Dru i sense that isnt going to be such a big bonus once fine tuned.
No motivation for the win??
Theres 1 point for every placing, whats the motivation for 10th when your in 11th? What it will do is keep everything very very tight, although im quite suprised by the huge (in comparison) gain given to 1 person for fastest lap in the standard races, it kinda conflicts with the tight scoring for finishing and means if your in say 4th you have more to gain by pushing for fastest lap then you do for 1st. Likewise with the top 3 in Qualifying.
Theres 1 point for every placing, whats the motivation for 10th when your in 11th? What it will do is keep everything very very tight, although im quite suprised by the huge (in comparison) gain given to 1 person for fastest lap in the standard races, it kinda conflicts with the tight scoring for finishing and means if your in say 4th you have more to gain by pushing for fastest lap then you do for 1st. Likewise with the top 3 in Qualifying.
Adding with permission
Account Name: NorwegianViper
Screen Name: (\/) E.Larssen
Team: Mercury Racing (Mercury #2)
Number: 59
Account Name: NorwegianViper
Screen Name: (\/) E.Larssen
Team: Mercury Racing (Mercury #2)
Number: 59
Well i can understand the 30 hotlaps situation, but as you say there has been people coming into this section of the forum asking if they can join, and i guess some were stupid and thought it didnt really matter or just havent come back to check.
Quick rant:
IMO a sticky should be put at the top of all these series forums reminding people about the setting to subscribe to a sub-forum, this then informs you of all posts made that day, so if a new thread is created or an existing one has been replied to then you'll get 1 email at midnight saying which threads are new and which are updated, it means you get a constant update on any changes without getting a ton of spam.
/rant
I still think a deadline should be set, so that based on circumstances at a specified time a decision as to how the league is structured is made.
If Patch X isnt available by XX/XX then we wait 1 week/start the series with Patch W.
Just to be annoying, ive had 27 years of practice....
What happens if another 8 people say they want to race in the next few days and then Patch X is released??
X with 28 drivers and telling 9 to get f**ked
X with 19 & 19 drivers in 2 divisions? (or perhaps split at a noticable gap in laptimes if possible)
I would still like to say that i hope X will be available to use in the series, but im just hoping that we dont hold the series up waiting for a patch, hopefully it wont become the UF1 June-hem series
Quick rant:
IMO a sticky should be put at the top of all these series forums reminding people about the setting to subscribe to a sub-forum, this then informs you of all posts made that day, so if a new thread is created or an existing one has been replied to then you'll get 1 email at midnight saying which threads are new and which are updated, it means you get a constant update on any changes without getting a ton of spam.
/rant
I still think a deadline should be set, so that based on circumstances at a specified time a decision as to how the league is structured is made.
If Patch X isnt available by XX/XX then we wait 1 week/start the series with Patch W.
Just to be annoying, ive had 27 years of practice....
What happens if another 8 people say they want to race in the next few days and then Patch X is released??
X with 28 drivers and telling 9 to get f**ked
X with 19 & 19 drivers in 2 divisions? (or perhaps split at a noticable gap in laptimes if possible)
I would still like to say that i hope X will be available to use in the series, but im just hoping that we dont hold the series up waiting for a patch, hopefully it wont become the UF1 June-hem series
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG