Joining the discussion late, but i dont care 
Is there 27 teams that are all capable of driving at a suitable standard? Its not individual drivers either, its teams of 6 drivers and a team might be called to use more than that on occasions (6 for 24hr, maybe 1 or 2 'new' drivers may be needed in other rounds) and they have to be of a standard where they're not going to make silly mistakes and spoil races.
We quit the LFS GT series because there were leading GT1 cars making bad mistakes, the explanation that they have to be given a chance to prove themselves was so-so as a reason to accept them in, but will that be good enough for MoE proper??
Last season a few teams stepped in when there was spaces and did well, and for those 3-4 teams im sure they'll only improve the series competitiveness throughout the field, however i have reservations about the other 7 or so teams after those that competed in a round or more last series.
If MoE is the pinical of LFS Racing then the standard of driving needs to reflect that, having 27 teams is great, but I just hope that there arent teams in there who are effectively there to make up the numbers, they may have every intention of doing well, but i've seen the LFS GT standard and some just arent ready for this level IMO.
If someone can say theres 25+ teams perfectly capable of driving side by side each other then what the hell, 1 class or 2, doesnt make much difference as it should be a great series. Call it elitest or whatever you want to call it, but MoE shouldnt be a free-for-all series, it should be locked and only the best need apply. If you dont make the grade you dont get a spot. Personally i dont think we'd get more than 22-24 suitable teams but i'd be happy to be proved wrong .
Fantastic, so is that Cyber putting themselves forward for the GT2 class? How about Thunder & Ocrana or whatever they're called this year?
Is there 27 teams that are all capable of driving at a suitable standard? Its not individual drivers either, its teams of 6 drivers and a team might be called to use more than that on occasions (6 for 24hr, maybe 1 or 2 'new' drivers may be needed in other rounds) and they have to be of a standard where they're not going to make silly mistakes and spoil races.
We quit the LFS GT series because there were leading GT1 cars making bad mistakes, the explanation that they have to be given a chance to prove themselves was so-so as a reason to accept them in, but will that be good enough for MoE proper??
Last season a few teams stepped in when there was spaces and did well, and for those 3-4 teams im sure they'll only improve the series competitiveness throughout the field, however i have reservations about the other 7 or so teams after those that competed in a round or more last series.
If MoE is the pinical of LFS Racing then the standard of driving needs to reflect that, having 27 teams is great, but I just hope that there arent teams in there who are effectively there to make up the numbers, they may have every intention of doing well, but i've seen the LFS GT standard and some just arent ready for this level IMO.
If someone can say theres 25+ teams perfectly capable of driving side by side each other then what the hell, 1 class or 2, doesnt make much difference as it should be a great series. Call it elitest or whatever you want to call it, but MoE shouldnt be a free-for-all series, it should be locked and only the best need apply. If you dont make the grade you dont get a spot. Personally i dont think we'd get more than 22-24 suitable teams but i'd be happy to be proved wrong .
Fantastic, so is that Cyber putting themselves forward for the GT2 class? How about Thunder & Ocrana or whatever they're called this year?
Agree with the Doc, rule changes sometimes are called for, whether its a 1 month before, 1 week before or a week into the series, but the last few discussions havent been about fine tuning, clarifying rules or coming up with solutions for certain problems, they've been about modifying the setup of the series and i think these sort of things need to be rubber stamped early into a series and then only modified if need be.
If just days before the series started you wanted everyone's opinion on whether we should use Patch W or X for the series due to its significant changes then that i can understand, but asking about Ballast a week beforehand, the possibility of using a test patch for a series and going from 2 divisions of 20 to 1 division of 28....
All of this is brought on by the test patch, if it didnt exist then these suggestions wouldnt have come about and we'd have a pretty concrete idea of how things were being done. While i certainly dont think its a bad thing to ask the competitors for their opinions on the organisation of the series I have to say that the current possible concept looks to be changing quite a bit from the original one.
If it was concrete that Patch X would be released on May 1st then lets push things back a week and take full advantage of it, but with no certainty of this and only test patches capable of offering those advantages i think we need to set a deadline and say if it isnt available by say the 28th then we should stick to patch W, if its out by then things go as planned with patch X. Patch W10 can allow people some practice with the new features and asside from its bugs it'll hopefully be no different when released, so lack of practice shouldnt be used as an excuse.
Otherwise we wait until patch X is released, whether thats May 1st or Sept 1st.
Original start date with the original concept or delay the series until the new patch is out and take advantage of what it offers.
Its a brand new series spanning just 28 days, lets get it underway and discuss future options when they're viable options rather than possibilities.
We may find that we dont need to handicap people with ballast, we may find we have 30+ people wanting to take part and 1 server just isnt enough. Lets leave the discussion of options to when they're available without risk.
If just days before the series started you wanted everyone's opinion on whether we should use Patch W or X for the series due to its significant changes then that i can understand, but asking about Ballast a week beforehand, the possibility of using a test patch for a series and going from 2 divisions of 20 to 1 division of 28....
All of this is brought on by the test patch, if it didnt exist then these suggestions wouldnt have come about and we'd have a pretty concrete idea of how things were being done. While i certainly dont think its a bad thing to ask the competitors for their opinions on the organisation of the series I have to say that the current possible concept looks to be changing quite a bit from the original one.
If it was concrete that Patch X would be released on May 1st then lets push things back a week and take full advantage of it, but with no certainty of this and only test patches capable of offering those advantages i think we need to set a deadline and say if it isnt available by say the 28th then we should stick to patch W, if its out by then things go as planned with patch X. Patch W10 can allow people some practice with the new features and asside from its bugs it'll hopefully be no different when released, so lack of practice shouldnt be used as an excuse.
Otherwise we wait until patch X is released, whether thats May 1st or Sept 1st.
Original start date with the original concept or delay the series until the new patch is out and take advantage of what it offers.
Its a brand new series spanning just 28 days, lets get it underway and discuss future options when they're viable options rather than possibilities.
We may find that we dont need to handicap people with ballast, we may find we have 30+ people wanting to take part and 1 server just isnt enough. Lets leave the discussion of options to when they're available without risk.
If ballast was available in an official patch within say 1 week of the start of the series, then i'd be willing to see that added, i'd be neither in favour or against it being added really, i think partly its hard to justify slowing the fastest person down just because they're the fastest, but i also understand the part it can play in having a close series.
The key thing for me would be that we only used what was official, and for a series which lasts exactly 1 month i'd also suggest that we used the same patch from start to finish. ie Patch W (or what was current within a reasonable timeframe before the series started) purely in the interest of keeping everything equal. LFS takes up little space, i'd bet >75% of the HD space LFS uses is skins, install a specific version purely for use in this series, that way if mid-May Patch X is released with a whole host of features the series stays the same, just as it would in real life (ie things rarely change midway through a series, traction control isnt suddenly allowed).
Ballast, i'll be happy with whatever popular opinion says (leaning more towards none, but no strong opinions on the matter) provided it wasnt done via test patches, just because new ones come along every other day and as the name suggests they're just test patches, the current has problems kicking people to spectator for doing nothing, so my only reservation would be in having Ballast via a test patch.
The key thing for me would be that we only used what was official, and for a series which lasts exactly 1 month i'd also suggest that we used the same patch from start to finish. ie Patch W (or what was current within a reasonable timeframe before the series started) purely in the interest of keeping everything equal. LFS takes up little space, i'd bet >75% of the HD space LFS uses is skins, install a specific version purely for use in this series, that way if mid-May Patch X is released with a whole host of features the series stays the same, just as it would in real life (ie things rarely change midway through a series, traction control isnt suddenly allowed).
Ballast, i'll be happy with whatever popular opinion says (leaning more towards none, but no strong opinions on the matter) provided it wasnt done via test patches, just because new ones come along every other day and as the name suggests they're just test patches, the current has problems kicking people to spectator for doing nothing, so my only reservation would be in having Ballast via a test patch.
Havent attempted emailing the hotlap, but as 2 of our guys have tried and seem to have failed i'll stick mine on here too.
Theres still about 8 hours until the deadline (cant recall if its 23:59 UTC, GMT or what atm) so i dont see why people only just realising need another 24hrs, its been open for about 5 days already it wasnt a short notice deadline.
Enjoy the weather for another 6 hours and then spend 1hr hotlapping or whatever you need. Its not a rubicks cube is it?
Enjoy the weather for another 6 hours and then spend 1hr hotlapping or whatever you need. Its not a rubicks cube is it?
Well, it should be a mix of short and long tracks, as well as mixed lengths etc
Im sure for the most part the testers were lapping round all tracks and holding much shorter races as is the norm for public racing, while doing longer events more organised rather than 2-3 people that happen to be around and fancy doing this. However with all that said, what was released was what we have as S2 Alpha, un-balanced cars in which some have stretched far beyond being competitive with others in the class. FZR is the only car in the GTR class, the others serve little purpose competitively because its has 2 key factors, acceleration & speed, its a bit of a handful but the fact that i HATE rwd cars with a passion, but could beat my FXR times by being uber careful just proved to me how wrong things are. The 1 downside is fuel consumption, its noticeable over endurance distances but the weight difference for it compared to the other 2 cars isnt significant in shorter races either.
TBO class is the same, FXO wins hands down (this has been so since S1), the same S1 that had grid spots where cars had 2 tyres down the train/tram lines at South City. Things like that frustraite me, i know its not easy to catch every single bug/problem but it sometimes makes me wonder.
Anyway, it needs input from the people testing it to step up and say this s__t just aint right, often additional new features will make stuff that worked perfect come all out of shape, and that has to be accepted, but it would be nice if continual effort was made to adjust matters like balancing. The only reason i see for not continously fiddling with balancing is consistancy and the HLVC charts.
Cue-Ball:
Agreed, with the power LFSW has available to it, it surely isnt that hard to draw a comparison chart and map out things using that data till its balanced. It does bring up the issue i mentioned of it d**king with the HLVC charts (not that i give a hoot) as personally i'd happily see it disabled for 3 months while such issues were resolved, its for everyones benefit.
I also hope lap times arent the single thing taken into account, currently the FXO is being weighed down, removing 10% surface contact and slowed down by restrictors n stuff, the fact that the RB4 which is by far and away the easiest of the 3 cars is currently waaay faster doesnt seem to be an issue, its lightning off the blocks and shoots past everyone on the grid (esp in S1 days) so i just hope thought goes beyond what each car can do from a flying lap.
I think many people would be happy to help even if it was just Test-Global balancing, something only effected in Test patches so everyone else could carry on if the so wished to. It needs a community effort, but most importantly it needs a Dev team willing to tinker, and it seems we finally have that for this (significant) issue at least.
Im sure for the most part the testers were lapping round all tracks and holding much shorter races as is the norm for public racing, while doing longer events more organised rather than 2-3 people that happen to be around and fancy doing this. However with all that said, what was released was what we have as S2 Alpha, un-balanced cars in which some have stretched far beyond being competitive with others in the class. FZR is the only car in the GTR class, the others serve little purpose competitively because its has 2 key factors, acceleration & speed, its a bit of a handful but the fact that i HATE rwd cars with a passion, but could beat my FXR times by being uber careful just proved to me how wrong things are. The 1 downside is fuel consumption, its noticeable over endurance distances but the weight difference for it compared to the other 2 cars isnt significant in shorter races either.
TBO class is the same, FXO wins hands down (this has been so since S1), the same S1 that had grid spots where cars had 2 tyres down the train/tram lines at South City. Things like that frustraite me, i know its not easy to catch every single bug/problem but it sometimes makes me wonder.
Anyway, it needs input from the people testing it to step up and say this s__t just aint right, often additional new features will make stuff that worked perfect come all out of shape, and that has to be accepted, but it would be nice if continual effort was made to adjust matters like balancing. The only reason i see for not continously fiddling with balancing is consistancy and the HLVC charts.
Cue-Ball:
Agreed, with the power LFSW has available to it, it surely isnt that hard to draw a comparison chart and map out things using that data till its balanced. It does bring up the issue i mentioned of it d**king with the HLVC charts (not that i give a hoot) as personally i'd happily see it disabled for 3 months while such issues were resolved, its for everyones benefit.
I also hope lap times arent the single thing taken into account, currently the FXO is being weighed down, removing 10% surface contact and slowed down by restrictors n stuff, the fact that the RB4 which is by far and away the easiest of the 3 cars is currently waaay faster doesnt seem to be an issue, its lightning off the blocks and shoots past everyone on the grid (esp in S1 days) so i just hope thought goes beyond what each car can do from a flying lap.
I think many people would be happy to help even if it was just Test-Global balancing, something only effected in Test patches so everyone else could carry on if the so wished to. It needs a community effort, but most importantly it needs a Dev team willing to tinker, and it seems we finally have that for this (significant) issue at least.
it could be done by allowing 'private' servers to force a system, as in order to know the password you should have agreed to the terms involved, your part of an organised group rather than a public server where you could randomly join.
Allowing the public servers to force handicaps isnt a bad idea, however im pretty sure that Scawen has said he doesnt care about this right now, the matter of the cars being unbalanced is its own problem and NOT one he wants solving by everyone coming up with their or answer to the problem.
Balancing will be done in due course, i get the impression handycaps were a mixture of being a short term answer to the problem and also the arrival of a worthwhile feature, however probably not for the way that the community is wanting to use it.
That along with what others have said seems to be the outlines of what its for, its not intended to balance classes out, so a server doesnt need to force weight onto a specific car. The balancing will be done globally when the time comes for this to be done (hopefully sooner rather than later) but the fact that some tweaking of certain cars has been done may be confusing the matter.
I just hope it gets done properly, I remember hearing that the testers would met up for 1+ hour races to test them for longer distance races, and ignoring changes made some time after Alpha was released, those GTR cars werent balanced for pick-up races (easily 99% of the races in LFS) or the organised ones, the tyre changes have magnified that too. Argue its Alpha, but i'd like to counter argue p*** poor testing. So hopefully when it comes to balancing everything properly it will be done so with more thought than was given to its Alpha release.
Allowing the public servers to force handicaps isnt a bad idea, however im pretty sure that Scawen has said he doesnt care about this right now, the matter of the cars being unbalanced is its own problem and NOT one he wants solving by everyone coming up with their or answer to the problem.
Balancing will be done in due course, i get the impression handycaps were a mixture of being a short term answer to the problem and also the arrival of a worthwhile feature, however probably not for the way that the community is wanting to use it.
That along with what others have said seems to be the outlines of what its for, its not intended to balance classes out, so a server doesnt need to force weight onto a specific car. The balancing will be done globally when the time comes for this to be done (hopefully sooner rather than later) but the fact that some tweaking of certain cars has been done may be confusing the matter.
I just hope it gets done properly, I remember hearing that the testers would met up for 1+ hour races to test them for longer distance races, and ignoring changes made some time after Alpha was released, those GTR cars werent balanced for pick-up races (easily 99% of the races in LFS) or the organised ones, the tyre changes have magnified that too. Argue its Alpha, but i'd like to counter argue p*** poor testing. So hopefully when it comes to balancing everything properly it will be done so with more thought than was given to its Alpha release.
I remember suggesting similar years ago about charging a bloomin fortune for the tools to do such things in the future, its the only logical way of allowing those with the willpower and dedication to take on such a task. Its no like picking up photoshop and botching something, they're professional tools which create these results, and i dont think they should be put in the hands of the casual gamer who thinks their botch-job efforts are what the community would want.
I'd love to have a go at it all, and if i had to pay say £100 in order to do so, i know for damn sure i aint going to pay for it have a little play and then say 'feck it', im going to sit down and do whatever it takes to get the results required. The downside is that the community would then be partly dependant on certain figures/groups paying for the software and spending hours coming up with these creations, while everyone sits round waiting for them having paid nothing.
It could be amazing, but it could just as easily be quite horrific.
Its either a mass free-for-all, sky-high costs to keep the 'riff-raff' out, or heavy moderation of what is acceptable and approved into the community... or a mix of all 3.
Free-for-all is just a very scary prospect im certain will never happen, i doubt the Dev team would just open the doors and let the rush of sub-standard pap come flooding through with the occasional appearance of a true jem.
I'd love to have a go at it all, and if i had to pay say £100 in order to do so, i know for damn sure i aint going to pay for it have a little play and then say 'feck it', im going to sit down and do whatever it takes to get the results required. The downside is that the community would then be partly dependant on certain figures/groups paying for the software and spending hours coming up with these creations, while everyone sits round waiting for them having paid nothing.
It could be amazing, but it could just as easily be quite horrific.
Its either a mass free-for-all, sky-high costs to keep the 'riff-raff' out, or heavy moderation of what is acceptable and approved into the community... or a mix of all 3.
Free-for-all is just a very scary prospect im certain will never happen, i doubt the Dev team would just open the doors and let the rush of sub-standard pap come flooding through with the occasional appearance of a true jem.
Should manage that, Newc to Midlands is about 5hr 30, take in 1hr faffing a stop at the services, and chances are you'll miss the worst of the traffic, might be a little busy getting into Newc depending where you have to go through etc.
Correct reason would be for when you're in the connections screen and then go to the race, you can have problems with lag after doing this, so the done thing is to do 1/2 a lap (basically 30sec or so) of a lap and allow everyone to get sync'd up and sorted out.
Yesterday because of the lag which was in there I suggested we did a 'lag lap' but for the reason that people might be able to use that to see exactly how tricky the start would be in the first sector of the lap, ideally with everyone seeing it was laggy and taking things easy and whatnot, in the end it didnt help much and the original start it was soon realised that the lag was too bad to get a clean race from it (issues could easily have happened mid-race because of it, not just the start) which is why we moved server and once everyone got onto the track then we did a lag lap for the correct reasons, allow everyone to sync up properly.
Most series have one, but sometimes (as we did the first time round for the start) it isnt really needed.
Oh, and traditionally the done thing in most 'lag laps' is to basically act like a nutter and see who you can hit the hardest into T1, anything that brings a little chaos to proceedings, its nothing more than waiting 30sec to allow everybody chance to settle, get skins cached, stuff like that... except its a little more fun than parking there
Yesterday because of the lag which was in there I suggested we did a 'lag lap' but for the reason that people might be able to use that to see exactly how tricky the start would be in the first sector of the lap, ideally with everyone seeing it was laggy and taking things easy and whatnot, in the end it didnt help much and the original start it was soon realised that the lag was too bad to get a clean race from it (issues could easily have happened mid-race because of it, not just the start) which is why we moved server and once everyone got onto the track then we did a lag lap for the correct reasons, allow everyone to sync up properly.
Most series have one, but sometimes (as we did the first time round for the start) it isnt really needed.
Oh, and traditionally the done thing in most 'lag laps' is to basically act like a nutter and see who you can hit the hardest into T1, anything that brings a little chaos to proceedings, its nothing more than waiting 30sec to allow everybody chance to settle, get skins cached, stuff like that... except its a little more fun than parking there
For the record, for round 3 i was asked to cover for Arrow because he couldnt make it and nobody else was able to do this. I wasnt admin, and as i stated in the server at the time i dont have the power of admin, i'd just been asked earlier in the season if i could cover for Arrow who couldnt make the event to do it himself.
Round 7 started at the same local time as the other previous round, it shouldnt have thats fair to say, however there were 13 of the 16 drivers (+1, myself) in there that turned up for the event effectively over 1hr before the race started, Not one questioned the start, including a Fusion driver. Three people turned up at the correct time and pointed out the error, nobody else did, including yourself.
Secondly, so you got 10 laps into a race, regardless of whether we started a race or not you'd have been there lapping away anyway.
I never initiated the idea that the event should get under way without the organisers, that was done as a group of which you were a part of and could have spoke up at the time if you knew different, however it was kindly noted that when the incorrect start was stopped how everyone accepted responsibility for each getting it wrong rather than just blaming one person.
Yesterdays race would have been stupid to have carried on racing while the lag was there to see, instead the correct decision was made to seek an alterative server for the race. I'm guessing that the reason for the problems may have been down to the new W9 patch as Frankie had been testing its stability on the 500 servers, though it could equally have been completely coincidental. But if you'd have rather have carried on racing while most of the pack got screwed over by lag then thats your opinion to hold, thankfully IMO the organisers made what i'd say was the right decision.
Thx, already posted on our forum saying how proud i am of everyone there, its been quite a team result too because we've managed to get 12 different drivers onto the grid, whether they wanted to or not in some cases (within reason obviously, only friends held hostage, not family, that would be going too far).
Best moment of the series is pretty damn easy to pick, it'd have to be round 2, where i can only assume somehow Viper infected everyone's computer or hacked into LFS in order to make him damn quick round there!
Ditto with st0rm today, Both bl**dy quick with a few laps down, but neither have done an event for about 2 years and have only played LFS on & off for the last year or so.
Also wanted to say congrats to [Elite], they've been pretty consistant through the series, but particularly because asside from ourselves they're the only team to have had 16 finishers from 16 starters. If 1st Racing did the maths they'll see how this cost them joint 2nd place
.Thanks to everyone thats taken part in the series, the standings flatter us and dont show how tight quite a few of those races were, so in the interest of making things fair im demanding all those non-Merc drivers join Mercury immediately, we wont accept a repeat performance next series
Finally, well done to Fusion for organising the series, its had a couple of hairy moments, and could do with some rules coming into play to clarify what is acceptable and what isnt, but bringing together 10 teams to compete together isnt an easy task, and i'll be damned if i'd get up at 5-6am for you lot thats for sure.
Hey, until about 11pm last night no f*cker had bothered to tell me or post the fact that i wasnt even going to be driving! I asked on there and no bugger replied, so guess what, im being 4th in line
If anyone replies after this post i wont see it, im just getting onto a plane to Germany and then Canada, tie those 2 down TIGHT and forcing them to be there for the race!! :chair:
Mercury:
(\/) Biohazard
(\/) St0rm
Reserves:
(\/)Jonesy
Paulie(\)oodles
(\/) Biohazard
(\/) St0rm
Reserves:
(\/)Jonesy
Paulie(\)oodles
I think the Mercury Boys gonna have to bring some pain!
Guess i better go re-install that badboy and go through all the cr*p of installing patch after patch after Add-on after Add-on...zzzzzzzz
Havent played since about August, know a few of the guys re-installed there copys last week to go back to it again, havent played 2142 since Xmas but BF2 was always better and the player roles have deeper meaning, and play a bigger role.
Baggsie being the tank wh*re
Mark, If the patch isnt installing, keeps failing on you for no real reason then check your HD room, it needs something like 1.5gb of free space in order to do it, it wont occupy the whole lot but i'd guess it needs to uncompress quite a lot of data to a temp area and then will remove it all afterwards, i know its caught be out a few times when everything seemed to be just fine.
Guess i better go re-install that badboy and go through all the cr*p of installing patch after patch after Add-on after Add-on...zzzzzzzz
Havent played since about August, know a few of the guys re-installed there copys last week to go back to it again, havent played 2142 since Xmas but BF2 was always better and the player roles have deeper meaning, and play a bigger role.
Baggsie being the tank wh*re
Mark, If the patch isnt installing, keeps failing on you for no real reason then check your HD room, it needs something like 1.5gb of free space in order to do it, it wont occupy the whole lot but i'd guess it needs to uncompress quite a lot of data to a temp area and then will remove it all afterwards, i know its caught be out a few times when everything seemed to be just fine.
Yeah, was some weird sh!t going down that day
Quite suprised i was fairly competitive, silly mistakes spoiled the 2nd race but i still managed a PB lap with some damage having rolled the car in the fast chicane. Did quite a bit of practice, which i think you were there for Mikey? never really got things how i wanted, realised at the last minute it was 7pm start, dived straight into Q and did a so-so lap. did a couple of steady laps and then from that point on somehow i was driving really consistantly which i couldnt do for the life of me for the 90min i'd practiced for beforehand. Just silly mistakes that cost me, a minor one in the first race and a smallish and medium one in the 2nd race. HATE that track too! Never touched it in pre-S1 days
Quite suprised i was fairly competitive, silly mistakes spoiled the 2nd race but i still managed a PB lap with some damage having rolled the car in the fast chicane. Did quite a bit of practice, which i think you were there for Mikey? never really got things how i wanted, realised at the last minute it was 7pm start, dived straight into Q and did a so-so lap. did a couple of steady laps and then from that point on somehow i was driving really consistantly which i couldnt do for the life of me for the 90min i'd practiced for beforehand. Just silly mistakes that cost me, a minor one in the first race and a smallish and medium one in the 2nd race. HATE that track too! Never touched it in pre-S1 days
Pecker - 'we' got emailed about a week ago saying that we could have it updated to W if required, cant quite remember why it wasnt there as a setting to enable us to update via the game panel but there probably was one.
'we' also got an email saying i'd submitted a ticket, which was news to me at the time!! hehe
'we' also got an email saying i'd submitted a ticket, which was news to me at the time!!
heheDru, surely your memory is not that short, you've seen me race who'd want that deadweight?
I've just posted in our forum to see if anyone fancies the task of dragging my sorry ass round the series, so who knows.
Maybe i should pull rank and demand Bawbag takes part, i think we'd make a good partnership and one allowing other teams a chance
My 1pt and bawbags 80pts each round, balances things out nicely
How about a qualifying day, 2 servers with 15-20 in each, select say 3 of the seasons tracks and we run 3 lots of 15min qualifying sessions back to back.
You save the replays, take each drivers qual time from each track and rank each person on their total time.
It gets everything sorted out in less than 90min, and it could be scheduled the week before the season is due to start, that gives time to decide which tracks to base the Qualifying round on, people have time to practice those tracks, and you have 1 week to do the simple task of saying who goes into Division 1 and who goes into Division 2.
The only problem i see with this system is that it kinda makes the constructors championship a little harder to arrange. If you have drivers in seperate divisions then neither a 40-21, 20-1 or 20-1 & 20-1 points system is going to make a competitive or fair way of calculating this.
I cant say im all that bothered about the team aspect, but thats just me.
The other option would be like Pecker mentioned, HLVCs for that track to be submitted between Mon 00:00 & Wed 23:59, use a keyword as a timestamp, so on Monday you say the keyword is 'Im a chunky monkey' and this has to be typed at the beginning of the lap to prove that it was recorded during the window. If its submitted to the forum or wherever on Thurs then thats your call, but if it doesnt include that message at the beginning then people could submit an existing lap they've done months ago.
On the Thursday someone would have to take those HLVC laps and inform everyone what group they're in, and this is done week in week out.
The Qualifying round to me is a better option, the 3 day window means you have 72hrs to get a lap in, no pressures of having just 15min to perform. Though it does allow the constructors system to run as intended.
As already said doing a 40-man qualifying session before the race and then organising who should be in what server is going to be messy as hell. It would take time to get the 2 results and sort them accordingly, then you have to wait for everyone to move to the correct server.
Very messy, and because it only takes 1 or 2 people to disappear when being told to switch server it means people may get impatient with waiting if it keeps happening.
You save the replays, take each drivers qual time from each track and rank each person on their total time.
It gets everything sorted out in less than 90min, and it could be scheduled the week before the season is due to start, that gives time to decide which tracks to base the Qualifying round on, people have time to practice those tracks, and you have 1 week to do the simple task of saying who goes into Division 1 and who goes into Division 2.
The only problem i see with this system is that it kinda makes the constructors championship a little harder to arrange. If you have drivers in seperate divisions then neither a 40-21, 20-1 or 20-1 & 20-1 points system is going to make a competitive or fair way of calculating this.
I cant say im all that bothered about the team aspect, but thats just me.
The other option would be like Pecker mentioned, HLVCs for that track to be submitted between Mon 00:00 & Wed 23:59, use a keyword as a timestamp, so on Monday you say the keyword is 'Im a chunky monkey' and this has to be typed at the beginning of the lap to prove that it was recorded during the window. If its submitted to the forum or wherever on Thurs then thats your call, but if it doesnt include that message at the beginning then people could submit an existing lap they've done months ago.
On the Thursday someone would have to take those HLVC laps and inform everyone what group they're in, and this is done week in week out.
The Qualifying round to me is a better option, the 3 day window means you have 72hrs to get a lap in, no pressures of having just 15min to perform. Though it does allow the constructors system to run as intended.
As already said doing a 40-man qualifying session before the race and then organising who should be in what server is going to be messy as hell. It would take time to get the 2 results and sort them accordingly, then you have to wait for everyone to move to the correct server.
Very messy, and because it only takes 1 or 2 people to disappear when being told to switch server it means people may get impatient with waiting if it keeps happening.
hmm, guess i'll drop myself out of the Mercury standings, unless someone else joins of course but im not really going to chase other drivers to add someone unless they really want to take part so consider me Mercury's #3 driver and if one of the guys wants in then we'll have 2 pairs, otherwise i'll just suck all on my own 
Missed it unfortunately
Had to settle for being there instead, but hey-ho, you win some you lose some.
Smith played exactly how he plays best, never giving the defenders a chance to settle with the ball, chasing it down and basically running round the pitch like a man posessed. He was fortunate to get the ball to put him on for the goal but you cant deny that was beautifully made and tucked away, 5 passes by 5 players, 1 touch each from one end to the other and it ends up in the back of the net.
Having those first 3 goals go in so quickly their heads went down and thankfully rather than backing down and holding onto what we'd got (only a 4-2 lead, nothing concreate) we carried on and continued to hold no prisoners.
Fantastic atmosphere, near perfect performance from all the players, fantastic night of football and possibly 3 from 4 english teams in the final and a damn good shout at an all English final. I dont think theres a more frightful prospect than a Utd v Liverpool final, losing that just doesnt bare thinking about.
Neither does a possible Utd v Chelsea final, which could mean playing them 3 times in an extremely confined timespan of something like 2 weeks (League, and then possibly CL and/or FA Cup) where either team could come out of those 3 games as the competition winners.
Just waiting for the highlights and the full match torrent to get a move on
Actually, were Manchester United, or 'The Hammers, Spurs, Red, Blues and Whites, Barcodes....'
Good, you can hand us our trophy back.
Bloody Media guppy!
Instead of watching Cut & Paste Italian media stories trying to put things in an Anti-English Hooligan spin, open your eyes and wake up!
http://mediacenter.corriere.it/Media...0-0003ba99c53b
ITALIAN website, No cuts, No spin, just raw footage which is indisputable and undefendable!
No steward was 'attached' or attacked either, they come through a 1 man wall of stewards stood on 1 in 3-5 steps, hardly a wall, and hardly any need to attack them to get through to the divider wall. So no stewards were attacked!
Then the police do a mild batton swinging session, see how much needless blood can be spilt of the people walking away from the center of the incident.
The coppers, who'd decided to continuously beat the people on the ground defenseless, who'd caused things to escalate were then getting abuse shouted at them from the fans, most of which appear to be with people who'd just had the crap beat out of them!
There isnt a moment where a 'huge crowd of MU fans' surround the cops, and if they did, SO GOD DAMN WHAT? Beat the crap out of them?? If someone starts attacking them, then thats inexcusable, but instead the Riot Control police fire the first bullet!!
Can i also remind you that this is a football ground, and half of the fans 'surrounding' the coppers are in there god damn seats they've paid to be in! The riot police are the ones placing themselves right in the middle of the trouble, they made NO attempt to retreat and lower the level on intensity, instead they stay put in with the fans when theres plenty of room on the right hand side where they were originally.
" What MU fans do? Attack police obviously!"
You sad, sad little boy! Thats exactly what they were doing wasnt it, it wasnt running away from the stupid idiots put there to CONTROL RIOTS who were swinging their battons at anyone within arms reach, of course it wasnt!
Utd fans didnt start the initial smalltime charge, Roma fans did.
Utd fans didnt start fighting or attacking anyone first, Riot police did.
Utd fans, rightfully p*ssed off ones at that, yelled abuse and in some cases asked for medical attention, and got the crap beat out of them for doing so by the people employed to KEEP THE PEACE.
The Utd fans *Played their part* however NOBODY deserved an ounce of what those Italian pigs were dishing out. You cant throw the first punch as a peacekeeper with battons vs a load of p*ssed off supporters who've just seen them kick lumps of cr*p out of their fellow supporters for no justifiable reason. Its that simple!
Woz:
Selective, sure, but you only need to look at the CCTV footage which is unedited and shows things without prejudice, and its clear as day.
I read your post, and every single point you had to make was based on the fact that the Fans started it, at NO point do you suggest that it WASNT justifiable, your basically laying the blame on the Fans because they made the first move, that move DIDNT justify what they received, but apparently your more interested in consistantly blaming the fans.
'So you are saying that the behaviour is fine?'
What, acting like a bit of a d*ck through a sheet of plastic, no mate thats absolutely scandalous and each one of them should be lined up an executed, clearly 'give it all that' is shocking and im only assuming that the world media have been zapped 'MIB' Style and forgotten about those actions because otherwise they'd be headline news.
Im sure a god is looking down thinking 'what has the world come to when a bunch of idiots try and look hard to other idiots trying to look hard', and both god and yourself would be right, as i say we must hunt these people down and punish them for what they have done!
Or maybe thats the 1 response stupider than what the Italian police felt would defuse the situation and bring peace back to the matter.
A flame alone is harmless, but throw petrol onto it and nasty sh*t happens. Sure the match and the petrol are fine seperated, but just because the match is lit does it come close to excusing or justifying the result when the 2 meet.
It doesnt take a genius to figure the police were the catalyst which caused the explosive scenes, both parts played their parts, but continuously bringing up the fact that if A & B hadnt happened then X wouldnt have happened.
Dalek0220:
Shut the f*ck up until your actually know what your talking about
"I hate Man Utd, cause they are Liverpools rivals, and cause they also, stole our nick name."
PLEASE give everyone the pleasure of being reminded what Manchester Uniteds nickname is, and then remind everyone what Liverpool FC's nickname is, were all dying to know.
If your going to support Liverpool despite living in a completely different country and CLEARLY are nothing more than a sheep following the heard, spend some time to figure out what your hearing is absolute toss.
Figure it out yourself you stupid ignorant sheep.
Take a lesson from G-Fresh on how to be a proper supporter instead of just a little idiot that cant think for itself. I have my own opinions of Liverpool FC, just as im sure G-Fresh and many Liverpool fans have of Manchester United, but have you noticed that it IS actually possible to have a discussion without bringing up childish nonsense, inaccurate childish nonsense at that.
Seeing as your such a dyed in the wool supporter, clearly you know everything there is for your wonderful Liverpool FC, or 'The Red Devils' as you like to call them
so you'd know where that lovely little 'anthem' you lovable scamps hold so dear to your hearts originates from, wouldnt you? 'YNWA' , I believe they're team play in a red shirt, Lancashire based, but i cant for the life of me think which set of fans were the first to sing it, and which team nicked it shortly after (I say shortly, i do mean 2-3 months later, so hardly a close call) and claimed it as their own. Dont suppose you happen to know which teams fans sang it first, and who were the stereotypical thieving scamps?Its so funny, what with you bringing up United supposedly stealing things from Liverpool.
Spend some time and learn about the team you support instead of just going off what you assume, think you know, or some other know-nothing fan tells you similar nonsense.
Thanks for your imput on this discussion, and for extending my opinions on people like yourself.
Chances are by now something may have clicked and you'll have realised your a silly little boy, but incase you havent, im awaiting your reply!!
G-Fresh:
Same Q to you as above seeing as that nitwit probably wont have the balls to comment on another Liverpool based matter.
Yes, i'd agree with that, if the barrier wasnt there, and was replaced with security, they may have approached each other but i find it very hard to believe they would have got to the dividing line of stewards/police.
However i dont think its the barrier really, it was the lack of anything really stopping them from doing what they did. Had a line of police been on either side of the barrier looking on for possible trouble, then there is no way either would have charged at those coppers, men with battons & solid plexiglass barrier = waste of anyones time.
The barriers for games as hate filled as Utd v Liverpool dont have all that much of a dividing line, they have about 2-man wide wall of coppers on each row seperating the 2 fans. Sometimes there will be say 10 seats either side empty, possibly with the netting stuff over the rows, but thats hardly a inpenatratable barrier.
For champions league matches are no different. Possibly less police presence, and those that are there arent armed with battons and sheilds, because the Utd fans have no interest in kicking off, so the only reason they'd step measures up would be if the away supporters were considered to be needing it, as they will on Tuesday.
From Wikipedia:
From Wozipedia:
From Wozipedia:
3 simple letters
S E Y
figure it out yourself
not only are you wrong, your a bloody idiot! people with your attitude should just remove yourself from the Gene pool for the sake of humanity!
You know humanity right, compasion... no?
'The week before a "fan" killed a fellow officer at a match. You probably know them and worked along side them.'
Yep, and what better way to make ammends for that as to attempt to even the score with a foreign teams supporter apparently.
'The fans on both sides have pushed past the grounds staff looking for a mob fight.'
And both stared each other through the Plexiglass giving each other the finger and pretended they're berti big bollox. The dibble did sod all to calm events, they basically threw petrol onto an volatile situation, and when it got nasty figured the best thing to do was throw some more on!
'You are outnumbered and in fear BUT your job is to keep them apart but at least you have a big stick to keep them at arms length.'
You are outnumbered but have about 60 other batton weilding maniacs hell-bent on hitting as many people as they can see.
There are 2 sets of fans there, a set of foreign fans and a set of locals.
Its well known that European coppers are absolute mongs (havent used that word for a while, im going with it!) and are nothing more than prehistoric club weilding cavemen trying to hit anything that moves. So, what do you do, put the coppers on the side of the barrier where they are with someone of the same nationality and way of life, or do they put the on the side with the foreigners who apparently fear for their lives who might shock-horror ask for some medical help after half a dozen of them just t**ted their mate while he's going back to the designated area, and having seen Johnny Foreigner ask for help confuses the concerned figure as being the son of satan and figures theres only 1 thing that can solve this problem.
They are Grade-A morons, that is their profession, they are to CONTROL riots, not help create them, not attack people currently causing no threats to anyone.
If someone is doing something that needs to be stopped, then you use the force that is deemed ACCEPTABLE, you dont just make the rules up as you see fit, they are supposedly trained professionals, and if it was any other situation except a football match it seems to me that you'd have a completely different attitude.
Fans charged, and for all of 10sec max basically screamed and shouted at each other, there was no attempt to stop it, there was no warning, no Plan A, B or C, it was straight in with the weapon and give everyone a damn good beating, whether that was required at the time or not, and if you feel that is acceptable then thats the disgraceful world you must live in.
Some fans are idiots, that doesnt give the police to retaliate in an even more idiotic manner.
There were 2 catalysts from that match, the Roma fans charging and taunting the Utd fans and them reacting to that. That wasnt going anywhere, and looking at it never would have either.
THEN in came the cops to apparently do their job of controlling a riot situation with about an EQUAL amount of fans doing something stupid. One set had battons, the other set were about to get 7 shades of s**t knocked out of them.
I dont think anyone has suggested that the fans were all angels, however the way things were handled you just seem to happily suggest that it was completely justifiable for the circumstances, hellbent on saying the fans only have themselves to blame for SOME fans being stupid, so collectively its tough cookie if you try and protect a fellow fan and you get a batton round the head.
Have a bit of common sense ey!
S E Y
figure it out yourself
not only are you wrong, your a bloody idiot! people with your attitude should just remove yourself from the Gene pool for the sake of humanity!
You know humanity right, compasion... no?
'The week before a "fan" killed a fellow officer at a match. You probably know them and worked along side them.'
Yep, and what better way to make ammends for that as to attempt to even the score with a foreign teams supporter apparently.
'The fans on both sides have pushed past the grounds staff looking for a mob fight.'
And both stared each other through the Plexiglass giving each other the finger and pretended they're berti big bollox. The dibble did sod all to calm events, they basically threw petrol onto an volatile situation, and when it got nasty figured the best thing to do was throw some more on!
'You are outnumbered and in fear BUT your job is to keep them apart but at least you have a big stick to keep them at arms length.'
You are outnumbered but have about 60 other batton weilding maniacs hell-bent on hitting as many people as they can see.
There are 2 sets of fans there, a set of foreign fans and a set of locals.
Its well known that European coppers are absolute mongs (havent used that word for a while, im going with it!) and are nothing more than prehistoric club weilding cavemen trying to hit anything that moves. So, what do you do, put the coppers on the side of the barrier where they are with someone of the same nationality and way of life, or do they put the on the side with the foreigners who apparently fear for their lives who might shock-horror ask for some medical help after half a dozen of them just t**ted their mate while he's going back to the designated area, and having seen Johnny Foreigner ask for help confuses the concerned figure as being the son of satan and figures theres only 1 thing that can solve this problem.
They are Grade-A morons, that is their profession, they are to CONTROL riots, not help create them, not attack people currently causing no threats to anyone.
If someone is doing something that needs to be stopped, then you use the force that is deemed ACCEPTABLE, you dont just make the rules up as you see fit, they are supposedly trained professionals, and if it was any other situation except a football match it seems to me that you'd have a completely different attitude.
Fans charged, and for all of 10sec max basically screamed and shouted at each other, there was no attempt to stop it, there was no warning, no Plan A, B or C, it was straight in with the weapon and give everyone a damn good beating, whether that was required at the time or not, and if you feel that is acceptable then thats the disgraceful world you must live in.
Some fans are idiots, that doesnt give the police to retaliate in an even more idiotic manner.
There were 2 catalysts from that match, the Roma fans charging and taunting the Utd fans and them reacting to that. That wasnt going anywhere, and looking at it never would have either.
THEN in came the cops to apparently do their job of controlling a riot situation with about an EQUAL amount of fans doing something stupid. One set had battons, the other set were about to get 7 shades of s**t knocked out of them.
I dont think anyone has suggested that the fans were all angels, however the way things were handled you just seem to happily suggest that it was completely justifiable for the circumstances, hellbent on saying the fans only have themselves to blame for SOME fans being stupid, so collectively its tough cookie if you try and protect a fellow fan and you get a batton round the head.
Have a bit of common sense ey!
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG