I tried out the xrg and I must say it was a real genius move to use the RAC

The xrg just doesn't feel sporty and light...it kinda feels like a truck.

Maybe if it had road supers it would be better, but I'm constantly wrestling the thing around the track...I just don't think you'll get the same feel as a miata.

I did some tweaks to the setup that gimpster posted. I took away a lot more power and loosened the diff way up trying to match the torsen. If you get the inside tire in the air it spins freely, but the car will still spin both if you get em in a slide. Judging by the 1/4 mile times I think the power/weight ratio I have going is pretty good.

The car feels right. Its darty and quick, but understeers if you don't slow down enough. Our miata you have to at least tap the brakes before turn in otherwise you'll understeer. You need to get some weight on the front tires. The car seems to mimic this.

I just did 10 minutes around FE_club and had a blast. I got down to 50.27 as my PB. The car is a real momentum machine. You've gotta keep the pace up otherwise the whole lap is ruined. I think you could have some real fun, tight racing with this setup. Its the best feeling RAC setup I've ever driven :P

glad to see you're still working on it

I'm really excited about the set. My dad owns a 2001 miata and it's a blast to drive. Its got the factory sport suspension package and z rated tires and the torsen diff. I think thats about all thats not stock, and yet it still handles like a gokart.

I did some reading on torsen diffs, and not sure if you'll be able to simulate it with the clutch pack or a viscous diff. I'd say best bet is either open or clutch pack with very low preload, power, and no coast.

" When a Torsen differential is employed, the slower-moving wheel always receives more torque than the faster-moving wheel. The Torsen T-2R RaceMaster is the only Torsen to have a preload clutch. So even if a wheel is airborne torque is applied to the other side. If one wheel were raised in the air, the regular Torsens would act like an open differential and no torque would be transferred to the other wheel."

Its an interesting diff. how it works. It sounds like it has no preload at all.

"When attempting to turn with a torque sensitive differential, the outer wheel will need to rotate more quickly relative to the differential, and the inner wheel will rotate more slowly than the differential. Friction in the differential will oppose motion, and that will work to slow the faster side and 'speed up' the slower/inner side. This leads to asymmetric torque distributions in drive wheels, matching the TBR. Cornering in this manner will reduce the torque applied to the outer tire, leading to possibly greater cornering power, unless the inner wheel is overpowered (which is easier to do than with an open differential). When the inner tire (which has less traction due to weight transfer from lateral acceleration) is overpowered, it angularly accelerates up to the outer wheel speed (small percent wheel spin) and the differential locks, and if the traction difference does not exceed the TBR, the outer wheel will then have a higher torque applied to it. If the traction difference exceeds the TBR, the outer tire gets the tractive torque of the inner wheel multiplied by the TBR, and the remaining applied torque to the differential contributes to wheel spin up."

Quote from Gimpster :

Since Cue-Ball wanted a Spec Miata I build this setup based on the RAC. It's a little light but its close. In the actual class only things like toe, tire pressuer and camber are allowed to be changed. The ARBs, shocks, springs and gear ratios are fixed.

its making way too much power, its way too light, and the car handles aweful

its pretty far from a spec miata, sorry

Quote from Bob Smith :

It would be nice, although more work would be needed on the drag racing side of things (not just the car). If we could find a way to modify the tyre grip, everything else is possible already.

Aside from putting the engine in the rear bumper it looks like (only way to get enough traction I know :P)

That wasn't too far from real life.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XttOe4rerLo

Anything without an automatic transmission pretty much needs a certain amount of wheel spin to get off the line without bogging. I don't think it helps that lfs lays down tire marks as soon as the tire looses any grip at all...it always looks a bit exagerated when you're leaving tire marks behind.

The tires do need more grip though

(I'm sure you know all this, just saying it was pretty close :P)

xrt with more power just means you brake sooner after the straight

There is no need for any of this. Get some friends on an old server with mekanic or something if you really want to race tuned cars.

so the first car down a gravel road is at a disadvantage because the surface is looser and gives less grip?

sounds like Keanu Reeves needs to be the codriver and any car that slows under 55 mph will explode due to on board bombs

wow that was rather harsh of a response :/

pretty misplaced towards me as well, but I'll move on

According to lfs tweak the rear tire of the xrt is 229/40/17

I went to tirerack and punched in 225/40/17

I got no results, but its a very uncommon size, so I went to a 45 sidewall and there were pleanty of choices for tire selection.

I think it would be interesting to see a different wheel choice and tire dimensions with the road super compound like you would commonly see at an autocross or track day event.

Last edited by spanks, Mon 16 Jun 2008, 05:03.

higher grade tires are normally mounted on wider wheels, and also are sometimes lower profile than normal road going tires.

I think it would be nice to see a bit wider tires on the road cars when you swap to road supers, and also maybe a bit less sidewall.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Server-side fixed setup racing would be a great addition to LFS, and has been suggested many times.

Here's hoping the devs get on it eventually.

it is something thats needed imo...would be so much fun

Even if it was just forcing hard track for now...hard track is way more fun to drive than any of the hotlap/faster race sets I have

Quote from MAGGOT :

I'd say no, as it would just be out of place. There is a reason the carousell exists, and it is unique to the Nords. Putting it somewhere else would just be weird. I'd like something similar to the carousel at Sears Point, though. (The sports car layout, not the neutered stock car layout)

+1 to the sears point classic

thats what I thought the thread was about lol

Quote from Bob Smith :

The locked diff will essentially remove itself from popular use once the tyre physics are sufficiently well modelled. Some mechancial stress modelling could help matters also but I can't see that happening.

locked diffs aren't good for turning at parking lot speeds...let alone around a racetrack.

I've got a locked diff in my drag car, and you don't turn that thing sharply or it will bind itself up and start skidding the inside tire. Every time you turn you're wearing out those expensive slicks :P

Going in and out of driveways leaves skid marks from the rear tires :P

I believe that locked diffs are basically abusing the fact that the fastest way around the track in lfs is basically a prolonged slide, but never getting sideways...just floating it through the corners, at least in TBO. (this is just imo and could be very wrong?)

Quote from Jamexing :

Japanese car brakes crap? Yet people have problems trying to overheat the Evolution X's Brembos after multiple laps of full race-pace lapping.

If you are referring to the usual "sport compacts", yes they do have adequately powerful but undersized (durability wise) brakes. But next time, please try to toast Skyline R35 GTR's massive brakes before throwing such sweeping statements.

Last time I checked, one easily toast most non-sport road car brakes after just a few laps of close to 100% driving. Unless you change to suitable pads, get better discs, ...

dude I'm sorry but either you're a massive troll or a retard

for one, I was trying to keep my post to a moderate length so people would actually read it

second of all, I don't much care about the OMGLANCEREVOEXXXXXXX or the R35 BEST CARCREAMINMYPANTSEVER as the brake pedal goes to the floor with no warning in the honda accord (which is Japanese iirc? yes?) we're driving around the track going quite fast towards a 35 degree left turn

I said the domestic cars and the japanese cars frequently had brake problems, whereas none of the european cars did FROM ANY PRICE RANGE. Granted none of the european cars are cheap.

I didn't mention that the more expensive domestic cars and japanese cars could last 3 laps without brake fade because that was not exactly the point I was trying to make.

Please take your downs syndrome and go elsewhere

edit - I just read your second post

Please explain the special cases where the laws of physics don't apply.

Last edited by spanks, Mon 2 Jun 2008, 06:24.

I normally set my car up so that it locks up pretty good in the slowest corner on the track, and then just modulate the brakes there.

Recently I had the chance to go out to Laguna Seca with my dad with WAJ (western automotive journalists). There were like 50 brand new cars begging to be flogged by less than talented journalists. You got 2.7 laps, 2 being full flying laps and the .7 coming onto the track. I couldn't drive, but was there as a guest and was a passenger with my dad all day (who is talented btw, so I had tons of fun).

ok, enough bragging and now the point of the post :P

The European cars had no issues with brakes...they begged to be driven. The domestic and Japanese cars had terrible brakes. At the end of the first or second lap, the brakes were hot, faded, and very unreliable. We weren't completely beating the shit out of them, keeping braking distances reasonable and tidy, and you weren't allowed to hang any tires or they gave you a talking to. They said drive at "8/10"

Anyways, 2 things contribute to this. ABS, and cheap ass brakes. ABS allows you to just mash the pedal and it will give you with confidence max braking of the vehicle. Now, couple this with cheap ass brakes, and they are toast very quickly.

We were only in one precarious situation the whole day...the honda finally gave up and the brakes were gone...Right before turn 6 which is a very fast, hard and short braking zone, left hander going up the hill towards the corkscrew. We inched all the way out to the edge of the rumble strips and finally the right rear slipped off. The hardest part was getting back to the pits and slipping out of the car unnoticed

In conclusion, stock brakes are crap and do fade very quickly, and the audi r8 is one of the greatest cars ever.

The problem with patch X was the power curves...it kept pulling the same from 6k to 9k with no limiter

The limiter was a good quick fix to a pretty unrealistic problem imo...even better would be cylinder head flow data to limit the air flow at high rpm

obviously that would just be added into the power curve...but something is really missing since the cars in patch X just pulled hard until the tach pegged 2000 rpm past the shift point

jumping and then landing while at full throttle (guessing) is different than just power causing it to slip

In the jumping case, you have the engine free reving as high as it will go, and the drivetrain also spinning at a higher rpm because of that. When you land, the wheel speed must match the speed of the vehicle. The wheels slow down, and because the engine is connected to the wheels, it also must slow down.

I would imagine that the clutch would slip for 2 reasons.

First of all, there is a huge shock when it goes from free reving to a large load on the engine like that.

Secondly, I don't think the engine would be able to instantaneously slow down from 6500 rpm to 4500 rpm, and this makes the weakest link in the drivetrain slip while the rpm slows down.

I think that the initial shock of landing would be enough force to make the clutch slip for an instant, and once it has lost its bite, it would be much easier to make it continue to slip while the engine slows down.

also, unless you're on ice or something...I don't think your wheel suddenly becomes light enough to turn with one finger

I've never understeered in a manual steering car, but have in my car with power steering. You don't get feedback from the wheel through difficulty to turn, more the car isn't going where you're telling it to, and you can feel the tires slipping.

In a go kart I didn't get a light steering experience either

Also, I think the ffb is just fine.

what %'age of your yearly income is 24 pound?

thanks for the tip about DXTweak...I've heard about it a few times and finally tried it

I can actually take off from a stop like I would in a real car now :P

Before the bite point was like less than a cm it seemed. Now I actually have some modulation

you guys are so short sighted

you bitch at demo users for not buying the game

when people buy the game you bitch about what they use it for

when people who don't belong in a race with you and crash you...you bitch about it, but if they go drift or cruise...you bitch more

you say that LFS should be bigger budget and get produced faster, and yet you complain about something that keeps people playing, and adds appeal to some people in the demo community

Who gives a rats ass what people use the game for, so long as they aren't ruining other people's time, and they bought the game.

The more users the better.

Quote from CobraDrifter :

Trees moving under windy contitions is very unrealistic IMO.

trees sway a lot when it gets windy

less weight = free horsepower, doesn't matter where you are

Quote from lizardfolk :

I think she's overrated. I dont think she's useless, but I think she's overrated. I like Viso over her (eventhough Viso struggles a bit on the ovals)

if her name was Daniel Patrick she'd get no attention...not saying she's a bad driver, just not a known name(doesn't have a legendary family name), and not out in the front every race.

also, good to know about the minimum weight thing lol

they need to revise the rules to have min weight include the driver

When cars first started ECU's, but still had carbs on them, they would revert back to the original ignition timing that is pre-programmed into the car for startup. This is the base timing that you use to set the timing on the car at idle. Once it fires it goes back into the normal ignition operation.

If you had it set up before that the TPS was affecting the timing during cranking, it possibly saw a lot of throttle, and very little engine load (cranking speed), and cut the timing way back.

If the timing wasn't locked out during cranking before, I think you're definitely on the right path now.

out of curiosity, what is the ECU using to change the spark table? Is it simply using engine rpm, or does it have other sensors? I'm curious what it used when you said it added spark during cranking.

I talked to my dad about it today, because I am curious about this as well. 20 degrees spark during cranking is not too much, but maybe a tad towards the high side. However, its no where near too high, and you should really never have any trouble starting because of it. Higher spark during cranking does add extra load to the starter however, and if you can calibrate it to start with less spark, you might be better off to do so.

I guess to figure out why it was having difficulty starting/why it would be remedied by more spark timing we need to know what sensors told it to increase the timing.