I ask you, you ask me. Can't be bothered with the whole picture thing. I prefer the -insert high thinking diatribe about how grand and lovely the english language is and how this kind of mind games is good for the soul. Etc. Etc.- thing.
Neighbours or home and away.
Neighbours or home and away.
You have to play with the settings, you will never learn otherwise.
Make a new set up file and called it experimental. (This was my trick. I had my race setup and my experimental) Any thing that I 'm not sure about or didnt' want to implement into my race set without thorough testing went onto the 'experimental' setup. I would play with the Diffs, the gear ratios, everything that I didn't understand or wanted to know how its effects the car I would mess about in experimental. Even go racing with experimental just to see what happens. Anything that I liked, or worked would get transplanted into my race setup. But even then that thing might change the dynamics of my race setup so I would have to run tests and change that setup too. But the system worked quite well for me.
I also had a different setup for each track, but thats for a bit further down the line when you are comfortable with setting up yourself. You can't use an Aston setup on South City and get the most from the car. So many fundemental differences that you have to take into account.
But again. Thats all part of the fun.
Make a new set up file and called it experimental. (This was my trick. I had my race setup and my experimental) Any thing that I 'm not sure about or didnt' want to implement into my race set without thorough testing went onto the 'experimental' setup. I would play with the Diffs, the gear ratios, everything that I didn't understand or wanted to know how its effects the car I would mess about in experimental. Even go racing with experimental just to see what happens. Anything that I liked, or worked would get transplanted into my race setup. But even then that thing might change the dynamics of my race setup so I would have to run tests and change that setup too. But the system worked quite well for me.
I also had a different setup for each track, but thats for a bit further down the line when you are comfortable with setting up yourself. You can't use an Aston setup on South City and get the most from the car. So many fundemental differences that you have to take into account.
But again. Thats all part of the fun.
Last edited by Funnybear, .
Stone him?
I think we shold bring back public humiliation. Make him walk down the street with a sign around his neck proclaiming him to be a cheater. How much longer do you think someone would keep cheating if they new everyone (In RL) knew what he was?
I think we shold bring back public humiliation. Make him walk down the street with a sign around his neck proclaiming him to be a cheater. How much longer do you think someone would keep cheating if they new everyone (In RL) knew what he was?
I'm struggling a bit with this one too.
Ideas anyone? Possible a language thing. You know what these canadians can be like sometimes. Particularily them that hails from the southern eastern bit who think them selves french.
Ideas anyone? Possible a language thing. You know what these canadians can be like sometimes. Particularily them that hails from the southern eastern bit who think them selves french.
Oh it's gotta be 
anyday.
Jade Goody or Nicole Richie.
anyday.Jade Goody or Nicole Richie.
I am sure that once LFS is considered to be finished then any new updates could well have an extra charge placed on them, particularily if they incorporate new tracks and cars. But LFS isn't finished yet. It's work in progress. The Dev's arn't going to spend a hell of a lot of time making new tracks and cars untill they got the actuall simulation where they want it.
It wouldn't matter where you put the chassis. The chassis could sit 100 foot up in the air and LFS could still get it's data from it. So long as points of information (In a real car the bushs that hold the suspension to the chassis) are connected to the chassis and the suspension in one way or another and that that information passed between them is the correct information then the chassis could be racing around on the moon for all LFS cares.
And the backbone method could and would communicate chassis flex in a perfectly adequate way. But, and you'll like this but, if it can be determined that LFS's engine can cope with a more complex chassis structure then so be bit. But advance beyond the backbone and the complexity will rise exponentially. From a system that has 6 moments of rotation to one that will be having to cope with over a hundred and will you be able to taste the difference? I wouldn't have thought the difference would be readily apparent to anything but the most stringent testing.
But anyway, if Lord Scawen was implementing chassis flex anytime soon then I'm sure that the starting point would be a simple model, i.e. the backbone and he too would then work upwards from that if he felt that you needed too.
But as the clever people here are tyring to determine can LFS handle the frequency that chassis flex needs to be sampled at.
Untill thats determined then alot of this talk is moot.
And the backbone method could and would communicate chassis flex in a perfectly adequate way. But, and you'll like this but, if it can be determined that LFS's engine can cope with a more complex chassis structure then so be bit. But advance beyond the backbone and the complexity will rise exponentially. From a system that has 6 moments of rotation to one that will be having to cope with over a hundred and will you be able to taste the difference? I wouldn't have thought the difference would be readily apparent to anything but the most stringent testing.
But anyway, if Lord Scawen was implementing chassis flex anytime soon then I'm sure that the starting point would be a simple model, i.e. the backbone and he too would then work upwards from that if he felt that you needed too.
But as the clever people here are tyring to determine can LFS handle the frequency that chassis flex needs to be sampled at.
Untill thats determined then alot of this talk is moot.
Gotta be Slash
Margeret Thatcher or Margaret Beckett?
Margeret Thatcher or Margaret Beckett?
Was that supposed to be paradoxical?
Big boobs are small or big boobs or small?
I shall go with the latter.
BIG BOOBS. Nothing like a women with curves. I like to feel I'm hugging something more than a skeleton with skin on.
Do you trim or keep a forest?
Big boobs are small or big boobs or small?
I shall go with the latter.
BIG BOOBS. Nothing like a women with curves. I like to feel I'm hugging something more than a skeleton with skin on.
Do you trim or keep a forest?
Mate. I'm not really sure what your trying to bring to this discussion. The original topic was along the lines of 'would chassis flex be noticable enough to warrent inclusion into LFS and/or if so how difficult would it be and to what level of realism'
I think that everyone agrees that to simulate a full chassis for each car would be too resource intensive. It just can't be done at this moment in time.
What seems to be possible is a very simplistic model that will 'simulate' what we are looking for. A given amount of flex, rotation and longitudinal bending. Sure it's not a true facsimile of a racing car's chassis but as pointed out above there isn't much in LFS that is made like a real world car. What is important is that the effect is implemented in a manner that reflects real life. No car in LFS has a real world conterpart (apart from thingy and the F1 wotsit), so nobody knows how these vehicles should react per se. But what can be noticed is if they feel like they should. If a simple backbone chassis model gets across the feeling that is required then a simple backbone model is perfectly adequate for our needs here.
It's all well and good to be able to say that LFS models a realistic chassis, but if you can't tell the difference between that chassis and a simplistic version then why waste the resources.
And in response to your last point, how does the tyre change it's camber angle now whilst it's just attached to a point in space? Just connect that point to a chassis model, ask the suspension to take inputs from both directions and bam, a working chassis / suspension interaction system. A very simplistic view I know, but one that shouldn't need to much work to get to operate properly. (He say's).
As the non techy here and possible a grounding influence, I would not be looking for ultra realism in chassis simulation, it's fine just to know that there is a system in place working in the best way it can to add to my online driving experiance. We have Chassis Flex in real life, LFS has chassis flex, it can't by definition operate in the same way, but it's there and I can play a better game for it. It's not nessesarily what LFS delievers that makes it realistic, it's the processes and the way it delivers the goods that make it what it is.
It would just add to the whole amazing world of LFS. Imagine having to adjust all your setups because you found out that the reason you can't get the BF1 to go around that high speed corner without bouncing 10 foot sideways is because the chassis is bottoming out. It adds a whole new area to take into account.
Cool.
You may want to get as much accuracy out of any chassis flex simulation mate but untill it can be determined that LFS can actually cope and deliever a comprehensive and detailed ouput of chassis flex then surely the simple backbone method will give enough responses for any layman racer to get some benefit.
It's all well and good making yourself perfectly clear but if by implementing full chassis flex you take up a vast amount of resources then what is the point.
Like I have said already, go beyond the 'simple' get the idea across method where do you stop?
Can you design and engineer a fully working chassis for the FZR? Factor in all the different materials spring rates, work out the loading deflection accuratly and make it work using the minimum of resources.
Better off starting simple, the backbone, and working from there. Get the frequencies sorted and if all that works then you can add in more components. It's more than adequate to get the general point across.
It'll give you everything you expect, twist, grounding out, and flex. The given values are adjusted for each vehicle to give appropriate reactions. I would be happy with that.
It's all well and good making yourself perfectly clear but if by implementing full chassis flex you take up a vast amount of resources then what is the point.
Like I have said already, go beyond the 'simple' get the idea across method where do you stop?
Can you design and engineer a fully working chassis for the FZR? Factor in all the different materials spring rates, work out the loading deflection accuratly and make it work using the minimum of resources.
Better off starting simple, the backbone, and working from there. Get the frequencies sorted and if all that works then you can add in more components. It's more than adequate to get the general point across.
It'll give you everything you expect, twist, grounding out, and flex. The given values are adjusted for each vehicle to give appropriate reactions. I would be happy with that.
Too hot. I can handle that. Don't do cold.
Red or yellow ( on a proper car like a Lambo)
Red or yellow ( on a proper car like a Lambo)
Was listening to radio 4 this morning and they where talking about the athletics and doping. A chap from the testing authority was on and he was saying that 17 athletes have missed everyone of their one hour slots (They get one a day for a week) and 3 have missed their second chance slots. That's all they get. After that they are out for failure to provide a sample.
ooooo. Good pic. He'll cherish that one f'shaw.
Ricky Chervais Commentating. Great.
What you want is one of the old playboys who could regale you of era's past and badly behaving drivers. Let's have Stirling, or Patrick Stewart. (No, thats wrong. I don't want to boldly go anywhere.. . . ) But you know what I mean.
Ricky Chervais Commentating. Great.
What you want is one of the old playboys who could regale you of era's past and badly behaving drivers. Let's have Stirling, or Patrick Stewart. (No, thats wrong. I don't want to boldly go anywhere.. . . ) But you know what I mean.
You can't sully the FZR by drifting it. Tch!
TBH if you look at the FZR's layout; big engine over the rear axle, powerful, wide rear track; I shouldn't thinks it's all that conducive to drifting. But then as I have spent most of my LFS racing life trying to get the FZR's rear end from doing anything but drift I wouldn't know how it reacts to drifting sillyness
Tell you what, if you want a challenge in your driving career try and get the FZR around AST. NAT. under 1.42 with a setup you made all by yourself. That should keep you going for a while.
TBH if you look at the FZR's layout; big engine over the rear axle, powerful, wide rear track; I shouldn't thinks it's all that conducive to drifting. But then as I have spent most of my LFS racing life trying to get the FZR's rear end from doing anything but drift I wouldn't know how it reacts to drifting sillyness
Tell you what, if you want a challenge in your driving career try and get the FZR around AST. NAT. under 1.42 with a setup you made all by yourself. That should keep you going for a while.
It ain't a 'ping' sound. It's definatly more of a pink. Pinkpinkpinkpink.
Calling it pinging sounds like your trying to tune a microwave. You yanks and the degredation of the english language.
To be honest Lala, you do sound a bit half cocked sometimes. I know I'm not the be all and end all but I don't try and blag my way through by pretending to know stuff when I don't. Actually, thats a blatent lie, what I'm doing is dumbing down so I don't appear to know everything.
Anyway. What was the topic again?
Calling it pinging sounds like your trying to tune a microwave. You yanks and the degredation of the english language.
To be honest Lala, you do sound a bit half cocked sometimes. I know I'm not the be all and end all but I don't try and blag my way through by pretending to know stuff when I don't. Actually, thats a blatent lie, what I'm doing is dumbing down so I don't appear to know everything.
Anyway. What was the topic again?
Your right in saying that the two structures will react in different ways. But for simplicity's sake surley the single backbone technique qill easily get the basic principles across.
Your box chassis has twenty points of rotation, 8 of which have 3 connections. Sure it will handle differently from the 6 point single backbone chassis (Which has been a technique used for many many years in chassis building. I renovated an old Triumph Spitfire which had a backbone chassis which we painted pink for some reason.) Your open box technique is more represtentative of modern spaceframe chassis.
But where do you stop? Monocoques? Steel, aluminium, carbon fibre, Titanium? Body shell involvement. Roll cages.
Is the simple chassis example good enough for all intents and purposes to get the general idea of Chassis flex without destroying the supposed behaviour of the cars and without complicating matters too much in regard to complexity, cpu load and the like.
With the three 'spring' chassis you will be able to get so many different handling characturistics just by adjusting the arbitrary figures on each spring and the rotational values on the connections. Surely as a simple starting point this would be more than adequate.
Your box chassis has twenty points of rotation, 8 of which have 3 connections. Sure it will handle differently from the 6 point single backbone chassis (Which has been a technique used for many many years in chassis building. I renovated an old Triumph Spitfire which had a backbone chassis which we painted pink for some reason.) Your open box technique is more represtentative of modern spaceframe chassis.
But where do you stop? Monocoques? Steel, aluminium, carbon fibre, Titanium? Body shell involvement. Roll cages.
Is the simple chassis example good enough for all intents and purposes to get the general idea of Chassis flex without destroying the supposed behaviour of the cars and without complicating matters too much in regard to complexity, cpu load and the like.
With the three 'spring' chassis you will be able to get so many different handling characturistics just by adjusting the arbitrary figures on each spring and the rotational values on the connections. Surely as a simple starting point this would be more than adequate.
Last edited by Funnybear, .
Thats all fair enough. But with the speed differential between Liuzzi and the Mclarens they where probable on him quicker than even he had expected, he stayed on the outside because with the Mclarens coming at him so fast crossing across the racing line to get 'off' he could have caused even more damage. Would he be more at fault for violently swerving or for staying neutral where he is. He had two Cars in his rear view mirror, both considerable faster than him, and like Kimi said, he didn't see Liuzzi. If he did he would have moved. Liuzzi's move is obvious and non threatening, Kimi would have got past him perfectly if he and Del la Rosa wern't mucking around with each other.
-edit. Did anyone else actually find the coverage a little difficult to follow? Is was a little sproradic. It was almost as if they didn't have enough camera's to cover all the circuit. The director was flicking about all over the place.
War will happen. People are greedy, people in power don't want to loose that power. It's a powerful thing, power. Even you and me if placed into a position of absolute power would find yourself doing or contimplating inexplicable things.
Wars will never stop. There will always be fighting. If you got invaded would you just sit there and say, 's'ok. Come on in. I don't fight, I'm all for peace. Here have my country, my home, my wife. It's all yours.'
Would you?
Wars happen.
But they need to happen for the right reasons. This defending democracy rubbish, this preemptive dealing with potential evil doers, this using religion as an escuse, it's all big steamy bull doings.
We (In Britain) arn't in fear of our borders. We don't have some megalithic dictatorship breathing down our necks. We live in a Kangeroo democracy and should hold our leaders accountable for his, sorry, their actions.
I've heard of a great new political party that has been formed by the parents and family of sons and daughter lost in Iraq and Afghanistan. People who died in wars and areas that they shouldn't have been in. The party is called spectre and they are putting forward candidates forward in all the constinuencies of Ministers who voted for the Iraq war. Which includes Jack Straw and Margaret Beckett to name just two. Labour have no great majority in anywhere now and I really hope that this Spectre can make real progress. They have already overturned a high court desicion not to have a public inquiry into the Iraq war. So in the autumn hopefully you will see William Goldsmith, Tony Blair, Jack Straw et al having to explain why we where lied too and why we entered into an illiegal war.
I am all for peace. But it ain't never going to happen untill you can take away the motives for war. And as long as there is money, resources and power to be had that will never happen.
And I for one wouldn't think twice about having a go at someone trying to get into my house. Although I wouldn't nessesarily go round to someones house and have a go just because I think they might come round to my house with that big knife that they might have brought but never did, or if they did they got rid of it really quickly, and I know they got a really big knife because I was the one who sold it to them in first place so I know the buggers got a really big knife hidden somewhere in his house because I just know ok. So therefore I'm allowed to go to his house and beat him up because I think he's got a big knife and he's going to use it on me. Well maybe not on me because I live to far away, but he might use it on his nieghbours, ok, more neighbours than he allready has. But I didn't care about that but now I want to build a driveway extenstion that runs through his back garden so if I go and lay into him a bit shouting lots about big knives and how that he might in the future come and murder us in cold blood whilst we are sleeping with the big knife that I sold to him then I can get on and build my driveway without anyone shouting at me for doing it. Great. Only I can't find the big knife that I sold him. Which is strange because it was a really big knife. I've looked everywhere, under the floorboards, in the walls, under the kitchen table. but it's not there at all. So now I've started looking nextdoor as well. Shouting alot about how if they have got the big knife they might come and murder me in cold blood whilst I'm sleeping with the big knife that I sold them. So whilst I'm doing that, I may as well get my driveway to go through their back garden too.
So I wouldn't do any of that. Because I'm a peacable chap.
Just don't come into my house with a big knife.
Wars will never stop. There will always be fighting. If you got invaded would you just sit there and say, 's'ok. Come on in. I don't fight, I'm all for peace. Here have my country, my home, my wife. It's all yours.'
Would you?
Wars happen.
But they need to happen for the right reasons. This defending democracy rubbish, this preemptive dealing with potential evil doers, this using religion as an escuse, it's all big steamy bull doings.
We (In Britain) arn't in fear of our borders. We don't have some megalithic dictatorship breathing down our necks. We live in a Kangeroo democracy and should hold our leaders accountable for his, sorry, their actions.
I've heard of a great new political party that has been formed by the parents and family of sons and daughter lost in Iraq and Afghanistan. People who died in wars and areas that they shouldn't have been in. The party is called spectre and they are putting forward candidates forward in all the constinuencies of Ministers who voted for the Iraq war. Which includes Jack Straw and Margaret Beckett to name just two. Labour have no great majority in anywhere now and I really hope that this Spectre can make real progress. They have already overturned a high court desicion not to have a public inquiry into the Iraq war. So in the autumn hopefully you will see William Goldsmith, Tony Blair, Jack Straw et al having to explain why we where lied too and why we entered into an illiegal war.
I am all for peace. But it ain't never going to happen untill you can take away the motives for war. And as long as there is money, resources and power to be had that will never happen.
And I for one wouldn't think twice about having a go at someone trying to get into my house. Although I wouldn't nessesarily go round to someones house and have a go just because I think they might come round to my house with that big knife that they might have brought but never did, or if they did they got rid of it really quickly, and I know they got a really big knife because I was the one who sold it to them in first place so I know the buggers got a really big knife hidden somewhere in his house because I just know ok. So therefore I'm allowed to go to his house and beat him up because I think he's got a big knife and he's going to use it on me. Well maybe not on me because I live to far away, but he might use it on his nieghbours, ok, more neighbours than he allready has. But I didn't care about that but now I want to build a driveway extenstion that runs through his back garden so if I go and lay into him a bit shouting lots about big knives and how that he might in the future come and murder us in cold blood whilst we are sleeping with the big knife that I sold to him then I can get on and build my driveway without anyone shouting at me for doing it. Great. Only I can't find the big knife that I sold him. Which is strange because it was a really big knife. I've looked everywhere, under the floorboards, in the walls, under the kitchen table. but it's not there at all. So now I've started looking nextdoor as well. Shouting alot about how if they have got the big knife they might come and murder me in cold blood whilst I'm sleeping with the big knife that I sold them. So whilst I'm doing that, I may as well get my driveway to go through their back garden too.
So I wouldn't do any of that. Because I'm a peacable chap.
Just don't come into my house with a big knife.
Liuzzi was doing what he thought was right, he moved of the line and slowed. Can't blame him really. Kimi ran into the back of him because he wasn't looking, it's an accident.
Watched the highlights last night. And now people are talking about it, yes, James Allen is getting a bit big for his boots. I don't want sensasionlism, I want a race commentary that is informative and entertaining. What you get from Shouty Allen is just innane drivel. I did like the Honda guys commentary though. Technical enough and emotive too, nice and chatty without being stupid. Nice to hear what the 'other' side say about stuff.
Watched the highlights last night. And now people are talking about it, yes, James Allen is getting a bit big for his boots. I don't want sensasionlism, I want a race commentary that is informative and entertaining. What you get from Shouty Allen is just innane drivel. I did like the Honda guys commentary though. Technical enough and emotive too, nice and chatty without being stupid. Nice to hear what the 'other' side say about stuff.
Pre-ignition I can cope with as with knocking and pinking. I know those terms amd I know what is happening. Detonation is a new one on me. Seeing as how detonation occurs in the piston anyway it's not a particularily good term.
Jammy, Jammy German. If he didn't finish he didn't finish. Jammy Sod.
How does shuey get a point if he was a DNF?
Or was he the last DNF and so gets a point by default?
Jammy german.
Or was he the last DNF and so gets a point by default?
Jammy german.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG