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Funnybear
S3 licensed
Neither. LFS all the way baby. Yea!


Apple Pie with cinnamon. Yes or no?
Funnybear
S3 licensed
@silentwar.

Your right mate. Reading what I said about Shuey's tyres. It was something that Matey boy test driver commentator honda boy said about the tyres. He mentinoed that they where slicks for all intents and purposes. But the fact that he had no performance gain (in fact he looked to be goining in reverse mostly) negates any serious issues with the tyres.


But then I just don't like ferrari and Shuey. So any chance I got of bashing either or both of 'em I will take it and run with it.

Better than sex. Love it. He'll be in trouble when he gets home. just imagine Mr's Button 'Better than sex eh? Well you'll never have a chance to prove that theory now will you . . . Honey!'
Funnybear
S3 licensed
I had a head gasket go on my Ford Fiesta once. Lot's of oil, water, a bit of petrol and some blue air from the language I was using but most of it was situated in the engine bay. Mind you, when it went I was generally too busy looking out the front and wondering what the **** had just happened than looking out the back wondering why I couldn't see any smoke.

What would be sweet is wastegate burnoff. That's not an official suggestion because I know it's been said many times already. But it would still be sweet.

And anyway, smoke is pretty cosmetic atm and so is an extensive damage system. Get the racing dynamics right and then I'm sure lord scawen will turn his attention to a ground breaking, comprehensive, innovative and godlike damage incorporation method.

I for one am not worried.
Funnybear
S3 licensed
So does that mean they do suffer from Chassis flex or can you safetly say that chassis flex is minimal in Rollcaged cars?
Funnybear
S3 licensed
As james Allen so eloquently put it . . .

GET IN MY SON!!!!!

Or something.

Saw the last 20 laps of the race so looking forward to getting home and seeing the start. But good on Button.

I think the reason why Shue pitted was to avoid some certain difficult questions over the state of his tyres. Which where technically slicks although I'm sure that becuase he had such a performance deficit it wouldn't have been a majot issue. But his treatment of Del a Rosa and heidfeld was just wrong. 4 seconds off the pace and even if you are racing for points you don't lord it around like that.

In a way I can understand him wanting to keep pushing. I would do the same thing. It is racing after all, but when you know that every other racing driver on the circuit would have let whomever past on that occasion it just sucks of Shumacher arrogance.

I hope he gets some places docked from next race.

But, way to go Button. Long may it continue. This should keep honda in F1 for another year at least.

-edit. And why are people getting their knickers in a twist over the thread. The race is run. Whats happened has happened. I for one wouldn't come on this site if I hadn't watch ed the race or was waiting for the result. You know it's gunna be on here. This is a racing thread at the end of the day. Poeple are going to talk about racing. Bit shortsighted me thinks. But saying that the title could have been slightly more sympathetic.
Funnybear
S3 licensed
Also. To what extent can you simulate chassis flex. Would you integrate each and every component and work out the forces and the interactions between each compenent part. Or would you just come up with some arbitrary figures and implement them into the car model. Could the car model accomodate chassis flex and all it's movements and interactions without a dramatic influence on processor resourses.

Also, bearing in mind that LFS generally uses fully tooled up racing models is chassis flex such an issue. These cars generally have any chassis flex engineered out of them to make for the most stable platform possible.

I think, possible, is just how far you want to open Pandora's chassis flex box. Surely it is an all or nothing intergration. Either simulate chassis flex (Which include chassis simulation, ehich could lead to some interesting future car design. Particularily by us, the general public.) in it's entirety which could potentially eat up precious resources. Or as m,entioned just arbitrarily enter in some figures and roughly give some chassis flex influence.

But then I could be wrong about everything. just trying to sound clever . . . .
Funnybear
S3 licensed
And . . and . . and . . . maybe you could have the hand of god come down and strike retribution and holy wrath upon wreckers and trolls.

Thats realistic isn't it?
Funnybear
S3 licensed
Tracks are tracks. Either race them or don't. The whole point of a track is that it is what it is. With all it's faults, plus points and naked girls . . . Or is that just in my trailor?
Funnybear
S3 licensed
So long as it's optional. If an Admin want's to be an admin on that day or not it's up to them but it is nice to know if an admin is active on the server or not. Would be something that I would look for when cruising for a good racing server then I know if it's being policed or not.

So it's a big + for me.

Let the Admins where their colours on their sleeves . . . or something.
Funnybear
S3 licensed
Would like me to start posting on it . . I'll soon get it deleted . . .

I could lower the tone in a brothel.
Funnybear
S3 licensed
Quote from Leifde :Red

Lager or Bitter?

Shouting LAGER, LAGER, LAGER . . Shouting . . . .


ManU or Chelsea?
Funnybear
S3 licensed
Tight for feeling.


Long and tall or short and solid? (Gearing.)
Funnybear
S3 licensed
*hic*

I'm. Ummm.

*Hic*

Drinksh?

*Hic*

No Occifer. This ish a comp . . . computerer . . . computinglyer . . . C.O.M.P.U.T.E.R. Simuslashion. Simulashion. Sumulcron. Shimmy, shim shimaroo. Sim-U-ation. It's show real it's even got real coppers.

*hic*

Hmm. What? Blow in thish. Ish that really neshashary? Talk about total imershion-ion.

*Hic*

You want me to put the wheel down and shtep away from the deshk? One too many you say? Nonshense. I can handle mush more. No I'm only on the floor becush it seemed to want to be my friend. not many people want to be my friend.

*Hic* . . . . . *Sob* . . . . *Sob. Hic*

Nobody want to be my friend . . . .Waaaaaa.




-I really need to get out more.
Funnybear
S3 licensed
Why is Gaffa tape like the force?

Because there is a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together . . . . .
Funnybear
S3 licensed
Just remember no matter how much people help you and tell you where to look, you'll only learn by doing things yourself and making your own mistakes.

But I hope I was some help.

Go race . . . .

Edit - Reading through my advice again I thought of something else. But it's something that will come to you naturally as you get used to what happens where and when. The point is . . .

Everything to do with a cars setup can and does effect something else. You might find that you do something that will increase rear traction, this might mean you can reduce rear downforce to get some more straight line speed, but this in turn might effect fast corner performance by inducing oversteer which can be counter-acted by some damper adjustment which in turn might effect your corner entry. It's cause and effect. So long as you recognise that you will have to continously adjust both your setups and your driving style in what seems a lap by lap basis you'll do fine. Eventually you will hit your sweet spot and the PB's will just keep dropping. You are a major factor in your cars performance so if you are sympathetic to the mechanical limits and learn your tracks well you are on a winner from the start.
Last edited by Funnybear, .
Funnybear
S3 licensed
You could just take the wheels off and place the ting on a rug so it don't scratch the floor . . .
Funnybear
S3 licensed
Interactive simulation. Why change it? Your experiancing the G!!
Funnybear
S3 licensed
You don't want an oversteery setup with the FZR. If anything you want something that try's to cancel out as much oversteer as possible.

I used mouse and FZR was my car.

I used the mouse buttons to acc and brake while the K/B was used for gear changes. This allows your left hand to go do keyboardy things like F12 and F11 without interferring to much with your driving.

Now. To mouse the FZR you gotta look at a few things. Start with windows. LFS takes it's mouse speed from windows so make sure you have the mouse speed as low as is comfortable and that any acceleration is taken off the mouse. Apparently screen resolution also makes a difference, hi res faster mouse speed. Lo res lower mouse speed.

Then once in LFS itself go to control settings and have a gander at the steer centre reduction. Try and set it as low as you can. This takes off the acceleration on the wheel turn rate. This should reduce any over reaction you get from oversteer and the like which sends you fishtailing into the nearest wall.

I think that about covers the settings side of things. Now to move onto the setup.

Now, don't take any of this as gospel. You have to work somethings out on your own and you need to know how to change your own settings fro different tracks, race distances and cirumstances. But this should give you a rough idea of where to look and what to adjust.

The easy ones first.

Steering. Reduce the degree of wheel turn as much as you can. I generally ran around 20degrees lock to lock, but you can up or lower that to your hearts content. By reducing the steering lock you lower the amount of wheel turn that your mouse is responsible for meaning you can be more accurate and progressive rather than hacking the car around.

Downforce. I ran quite high rear to aid in getting the traction down. But with the new patch you can reduce it quite alot. For AS. NAT I was running between 3 and 4 degrees at the front and around 11 to 14 on the rear depending on my mood. But again, play with these settings untill you find something you are happy with.

Brakes. Just back of the front bias ever so slightly and reduce the overall force untill you can perform a high speed stop with the front tyres just onthe edge of skidding. If you watch yout tyre temp graph if your front tyres are continously running red or bursting then the first thing you need to do is reduce the braking power. It does mean will have to take very careful note of your brake points and you might find pedal users outbraking you as they can brake later. But don't panic. You'll soon be up with them again. Just remember that you are different and that you havee your own way of racing. Don't try and out do them at every corner because you can't.

Speaking of which. Tyres.

Lower pressure, more grip, better braking, higher wear rate, lower top speed.

Higher pressure, less grip, less braking, lower wear rate, higher top speed.

Also if you run front pressure higher than the rear (Particularily the FZR) then you will be able to control the braking much better. If the rear pressure is higher than the front it has a tendancy to put the car on edge during heavy braking. If you are loosing the tail under straightline braking this could be a reason why. You will also notice a handling difference with your pressures. If you run them high you get a much crisper and tighter car. If you run them low then the grip might be higher but the car feels wallowy and not so connected to the tarmac. Again. Play with the settings and find whats best for you.

Whats next. Ah yes. Toe in.

For the FZR get toe in to about 3 or 4 degrees. You can run less if you prefer a looser back end and with the new patch the FZR doesn't punish half as bad as it did if you lost the back end. But with 3 degrees toe in on the rear it really helps you get the power down earlier with the mouse without the rear saying hello to the front. I would stay neutral on the front as I found with the mouse you don't have enough control to get the most from any steering traits that toe in can give you.

What about suspension I hear you say, well I'm am coming to that. Just making sure I havn't forgotten anything else.

Ah yes. Parallel steer. Again, personal preference I think. I used to run pretty high parallel steer prehaps as much as 80-90%. I felt it helped calm the steering down somewhat.

Ok. Suspension.

This is where it get serious. You really are going to have to play with the settings here because everything effects everything else here. But a couple of major pointer would be . . .

Don't run too stiff. You can't control a rigid car with a mouse, bounces you all over the place and you just don't have the control.

Make sure you are not riding the end stops, hit them and you don't have enough control over the car. Make sure your ride height can accomodate the rough patches of the circuit. With the lack of any ground effect ride hieght isn't super critical apart from upsetting your ride. And again. Learn how to adjust as you go. Some track can take lower ride heights and stiffer suspension whilst others you need to run high and soft.

Now with the different damper settings I am going to refer you to the manuals out there. You need to learn how to recognise what a car is doing whilst entering, during and exiting a corner. If you are oversteering in but understeering out. That sortta thing. You need to be able to see whats happening and adjust the dampers to solve the problems. It's all about wieght transfer and it's something you need to learn to get the best from LFS.

And last but by no means least. Anti Roll.

I don't know whether this was just me or whether it's the FZR but I often found I got best result by running the rear anti roll considerable lower than the front. As much as 50 points difference on AS NAT. I couldn't explain why I find that worked. But it did so try some experimentation.

But at the end of the day. Despite any adice you might recieve the best way you are going to learn is by playing witht he settings and finding things out for yourself.

Happy racing.
Funnybear
S3 licensed
Started a BTCC season and waiting for V8's to kick off.
Funnybear
S3 licensed
This dependance on tyres is not good. I look forward to the single make but the only problem will be that any team not already on that make has a lot of testing to catch up on. And I'll just stand aside whilst the flame roars past me but we all know which team benefits from tyre testing atm.

Renault did make a particular comment at Hock when they left the Michelins out the back of the Pit for all to see. They arn't happy with Michlelins performance and I don't blame them.

The performance differential between those two tyre manufacturers is so great that it detracts from the racing. Either open it open to any manufacturer and leave it to the teams to decide or close it down to one make. Either one or the other not to the ones who dangle enough carrots in front of Big Bernie.

As for the mass dampers, they are a well known engineering concept and I'm suprised it has taken F1 this long to include them. Fair play to them if they can get them to work and level out the field slightly. Hopefully the FIA will climb down over this one.
Funnybear
S3 licensed
'I should be feeding the kids'
Funnybear
S3 licensed
I would recommend learning how to make up some sets yourself.

We can give you lots of advice in what to look at.

What is your control method? Mouser or wheel.

If you are a wheel user you can probable get away with using a more unstable setup that rides the edge of performance whilst if you are a mouser then you will need a more stable platform.

Give us some feedback and we will try and help you.
Funnybear
S3 licensed
I just don't like the way it looks . . .

TBH if there was a mid engined rear wheeler in LFS I would be driving that all the time. As it is I think the FZR is the closest thing.

Like I said I didn't actually drive the XRR for any real length of time. That turbo lag doesn't suit a mouser. Where as the Normally aspirated engine of the FZR allows a mouser to be alot smoother.

But I have still had some seriously close races with the XRR. You know when you are up against a good XRR driver. It was always the way, espiacially on the longer tracks like the Aston GP and the Grand Touring that you could put some distance over the XRR down the straights and the faster corners and then coming up to a complex of some slower corners . . WHAM. Right up your backside. I could never figure out where they got there corner speed from. Even when trying the same lines and speeds the FZR just can't do corners in the same way.
Funnybear
S3 licensed
It's worth getting used to a slower mouse speed. It helped me alot with the big rear wheelers. Reducing the cars steering degree really helps too. And like I said, make sure your windows mouse acceleration is OFF!!

If you still have problems with the Rear wheel drives let us know. There are many other things a mouser can do to help himself. Don't give up on the FZR and XRR. They can be very rewarding once you get them sorted. Try and work on making your own setups rather than getting other peoples you will learn so much more and you will be able to setup any car anywhere once you learn the basics.
Funnybear
S3 licensed
It's not only performance of the car that you need to look at. I think the FZR rewards the driver more for the setting up and driving skills. It took me ages to get a good setup for the FZR. Whilst (Although this is a gross generalisation because I didn't really drive it) the XRR is easier to drive out the box.

If you take the FZR's performance bonus away you take away the reward for all FZR's drivers efforts in getting it to work properly.

The car is a right handful. There ain't no denying that. Let me have some fun with it now that I've managed to get it running with the front pointing the way I'm going.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG