The use of Neural Nets in LFS
Just a thought -
It would appear to me that during the simulation of a car in a complex environment that there are a great many factors where they could be used, obviously so for the AI cars - (they may well be used already).
Trivia -
A neural net can be trained to map any set of inputs of any range to any given response.
Even in the late Eightees ALVINN, a computer controlled van was trained to stay on the road using a Neural Net with a hidden layer of just 5 Nodes, and an input of 30x32 greyscale pixels. Things have come a long way since.
Application -
I was thinking this may be especially useful for simulating engines - where a mathmatical algorithm may prove a close but oversmooth representation of engine behavior, a Neural Net may be trained to give a the correct outputs of all the simulated factors (power/torque production, fuel consumption, heat ouput, stress on components) by the use of training sets with real telemetary as the target results for the end nodes, and backproporgation of the node connection weights via a readily available algorithm.
Resources -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_neural_network
- > Everything you need to know to program one!
It would appear to me that during the simulation of a car in a complex environment that there are a great many factors where they could be used, obviously so for the AI cars - (they may well be used already).
Trivia -
A neural net can be trained to map any set of inputs of any range to any given response.
Even in the late Eightees ALVINN, a computer controlled van was trained to stay on the road using a Neural Net with a hidden layer of just 5 Nodes, and an input of 30x32 greyscale pixels. Things have come a long way since.
Application -
I was thinking this may be especially useful for simulating engines - where a mathmatical algorithm may prove a close but oversmooth representation of engine behavior, a Neural Net may be trained to give a the correct outputs of all the simulated factors (power/torque production, fuel consumption, heat ouput, stress on components) by the use of training sets with real telemetary as the target results for the end nodes, and backproporgation of the node connection weights via a readily available algorithm.
Resources -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_neural_network
- > Everything you need to know to program one!
I'd like to know what kind of atmosphere do you live in where this is commonplace?
Does a score fly in from above and chime at you
"BOILING THE KETTLE 2^10 POINTS!!!"
I mean, seriously, what the hell!?
Does a score fly in from above and chime at you
"BOILING THE KETTLE 2^10 POINTS!!!"
I mean, seriously, what the hell!?
I just threw up all over myself listening to that Austrian stuff, I even contemplated stuffing the chunks in my ears to stop the auditory assault.
It's lucky I've been to Austria or I might've held that against them!
It's lucky I've been to Austria or I might've held that against them!
Aerodynamic Engineer:
"I told you not to paint that bit on the top orange... now look what it does under transient load!"
or
"The sponsorship executives soon realised that by mounting the wings upside down, that the entire of the underside became a sponsorship opportunity."
"I told you not to paint that bit on the top orange... now look what it does under transient load!"
or
"The sponsorship executives soon realised that by mounting the wings upside down, that the entire of the underside became a sponsorship opportunity."
"We have successfully removed all drag from the front tires, however our aerodynamics are some what compromised."
"...Sick and tired of the ever increasing theft in his neighborhood, one man, pictured here, feared for the safety of his favorite tree, and felt chaining it to a car no-one would possibly want to steal, the only way to sleep at night... "
I just thought I'd chuck in that I'd quite like, as soon as the sound hits 5.1 territory, for the sounds of the car to be placed around the driver correctly, in the saloons for example, you would have the tail coming from the rear speakers, and the header mix from just the front, and the middle silencer noise from all four, same applies to gravel getting up in your wheel arches for each wheel, knowing which tire locks up from the speaker it comes out of... you get the idea
I think the roughness and the irregularity of the sound you are all seeking will come with a better engine simulation, with less regular power curves etc, that UF engine would be lumpy as ricepudding on textured wallpaper in real life, not the smooth, but ultimately weak engine it has now.
I think the roughness and the irregularity of the sound you are all seeking will come with a better engine simulation, with less regular power curves etc, that UF engine would be lumpy as ricepudding on textured wallpaper in real life, not the smooth, but ultimately weak engine it has now.
Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
yer that's me top left - My name badge is on the inside of the red jumper - it was colder outside than inside!
I scuppered my results with a DNF on the last race, a pit from bent suspension and a roll afterwards really killed my FXR race! if only the patch had come in time..... i'll blame the instability of no clutch pack preload.... yes... that'll work
edit : "Dave" by the way, as even anyone gives a spark plug.
I scuppered my results with a DNF on the last race, a pit from bent suspension and a roll afterwards really killed my FXR race! if only the patch had come in time..... i'll blame the instability of no clutch pack preload.... yes... that'll work
edit : "Dave" by the way, as even anyone gives a spark plug.
Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
The ability their capable of this season I do not blame you for driving past them.
Another resounding improvement on an already exceptionally well produced and original concept.
bet he can't afford any games now.
LFS UK Gathering Thread 13 - Post Event Discussion
well that was fun 
thanks very much to all involved and especially Bob for sortin' it all.
thanks very much to all involved and especially Bob for sortin' it all.
A Spyker Livery Moped? that truly must be the slowest moving object in the known universe.
Hey Guys,
Just an update - I can hit 1.44's alright on the XFG set, so I'm no where near as bad as the 2 min + my lfsworld personal best suggests, although still not ultra fast.
As for the FXO set - I'm finding the effort to avoid all understeer by cranking the torquesplit to the rear is making it very unstable under braking due to the serious engine-breaking applied mostly to the rear wheels on approach to the corner. I'm practicing with the set most of tonight so hopefully I'll be near pace by tomorrow...
I'm driving down from Dorking saturday morning - if anyone is having transport issues I'll do my very best to find a way to help out, anyone who can get to Guildford/Redhill/Reigate/Gatwick/Dorking/Leatherhead stationwise would be ideal, otherwise, I will consider serious detours if it's the difference between a good time and not.
Just an update - I can hit 1.44's alright on the XFG set, so I'm no where near as bad as the 2 min + my lfsworld personal best suggests, although still not ultra fast.
As for the FXO set - I'm finding the effort to avoid all understeer by cranking the torquesplit to the rear is making it very unstable under braking due to the serious engine-breaking applied mostly to the rear wheels on approach to the corner. I'm practicing with the set most of tonight so hopefully I'll be near pace by tomorrow...
I'm driving down from Dorking saturday morning - if anyone is having transport issues I'll do my very best to find a way to help out, anyone who can get to Guildford/Redhill/Reigate/Gatwick/Dorking/Leatherhead stationwise would be ideal, otherwise, I will consider serious detours if it's the difference between a good time and not.
Actually the STCC ban on drivers with automatic gears and blip/cut has been lifted in a few cases to allow drivers who do not have the dexterity (for whatever reason) to be able to operate the game controller in that manner.
So how about not being so inconsiderate and thoughtless about differently abled people wark.
Coming from the country with the straightest and most boring roads in the world, and the highest ratio of automatics to "stick shifts" (cars with an H gate gearbox where the clutch and gears are manually operated, y'know, good ones) I think that's terminally hypocritical.
So how about not being so inconsiderate and thoughtless about differently abled people wark.
Coming from the country with the straightest and most boring roads in the world, and the highest ratio of automatics to "stick shifts" (cars with an H gate gearbox where the clutch and gears are manually operated, y'know, good ones) I think that's terminally hypocritical.
Jamexing will never be able to form a convincing arguement without matching tristancliffe's mastery of the multiquote addition this forum was gifted last year.
tristancliffe will never be able to win because he is always on the defensive, similarly Jamexing can not win if he continues to make offensives without checking his facts.
Either Jamexing needs to locate a substantial library with a few hundred books on the physics of motorsport, tyre development, new engine technology, and the proper use of English and the formulation of a water tight arguement.
Or, tristancliffe needs to do more than prove he knows more than Jamexing about the subject matter at hand, and genuinly educate him that we already know about everything he's "revealing" to us, the concequence of which being, he shall stop imbedding simplifications into "n00bs".
My own personal opinion, is that it does not matter even slightly within the Live for Speed context which is better, because real racing, and all it's plus points, stem from every competitor having a vehicle that is as similar to all the others as possible. This premotes tight, competative racing, where technique rather than fuel dictates the order of the cars accross the finish line. Except that I am not "revealing" anything to anyone, because we all already know this.
In conclusion, just because you are using standardised point, counterpoint, conclusion based arguements, does not mean you know what you are talking about. As demonstrated ever so clearly by this very post.
tristancliffe will never be able to win because he is always on the defensive, similarly Jamexing can not win if he continues to make offensives without checking his facts.
Either Jamexing needs to locate a substantial library with a few hundred books on the physics of motorsport, tyre development, new engine technology, and the proper use of English and the formulation of a water tight arguement.
Or, tristancliffe needs to do more than prove he knows more than Jamexing about the subject matter at hand, and genuinly educate him that we already know about everything he's "revealing" to us, the concequence of which being, he shall stop imbedding simplifications into "n00bs".
My own personal opinion, is that it does not matter even slightly within the Live for Speed context which is better, because real racing, and all it's plus points, stem from every competitor having a vehicle that is as similar to all the others as possible. This premotes tight, competative racing, where technique rather than fuel dictates the order of the cars accross the finish line. Except that I am not "revealing" anything to anyone, because we all already know this.
In conclusion, just because you are using standardised point, counterpoint, conclusion based arguements, does not mean you know what you are talking about. As demonstrated ever so clearly by this very post.
Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
This is excellent, thank you very much.
Would someone with the POWER please add this to the LFS Wiki perhaps?
That's going to make diagnosing setup faults immeasurably easier.
977
Would someone with the POWER please add this to the LFS Wiki perhaps?
That's going to make diagnosing setup faults immeasurably easier.
977
Another Top Gear Style Challenge
Driving a formula one car with front wheels being the powered ones... :
Last edited by z3r0c00l, .
On your marks, get set, eat my dust:
Fantastic bike, got me home from austria in 22 hours riding time, via Tillburg in the netherlands. 103bhp from a 600, very heavy, couldn´t have enjoyed it more though, love the looks, the brakes (Nissin kick some arse.), the power and the noise (Micron end can and stainless header - absolutely no wadding, 156db). I´d still have it, but a man with a brightly coloured car and blue hat said "no" to my creative driving style.....
So I now have this, which is terrible, but I have all my licenses back now!
Fantastic bike, got me home from austria in 22 hours riding time, via Tillburg in the netherlands. 103bhp from a 600, very heavy, couldn´t have enjoyed it more though, love the looks, the brakes (Nissin kick some arse.), the power and the noise (Micron end can and stainless header - absolutely no wadding, 156db). I´d still have it, but a man with a brightly coloured car and blue hat said "no" to my creative driving style.....
So I now have this, which is terrible, but I have all my licenses back now!
OH MY GOD YOU WALLHAX0R I W1LL PWNZ J00 4 DIZ....
oh wait, it's LFS, wireframe makes it harder rather than easier to shoot through the boxes in de_dust2.bsp....
nevermind
oh wait, it's LFS, wireframe makes it harder rather than easier to shoot through the boxes in de_dust2.bsp....
nevermind
Merso_Perfect,
I noticed you are from
Bosnia and Herzegovina.
I hope you enjoy doing better than "England, nil points" in the Eurovision Song Contest.
I noticed you are from
Bosnia and Herzegovina.
I hope you enjoy doing better than "England, nil points" in the Eurovision Song Contest.
Here it is - This is officially the worst car in the world, it's only got 89hp, no torque what so ever, and all the power is a fraction of a second before the revlimited cuts in anyway so you can't even really use it.
It weighs 1.85 tonnes, cost £500, comes with Traction Control, that only cuts in if you're belting the gas on an icy rounderbout, when all 89hp might just about get the inside wheel to go ever so slightly awry on the iced white road markings, ABS that comes on far too soon, an electronic stability problem that I've had to hack the control box for and replace some capacitors so it cuts in later, wheels that are so wide that it follows any road markings religiously, and an engine that sounds something like a sewing machine.
Generally speaking, it is simply one big joke.
It weighs 1.85 tonnes, cost £500, comes with Traction Control, that only cuts in if you're belting the gas on an icy rounderbout, when all 89hp might just about get the inside wheel to go ever so slightly awry on the iced white road markings, ABS that comes on far too soon, an electronic stability problem that I've had to hack the control box for and replace some capacitors so it cuts in later, wheels that are so wide that it follows any road markings religiously, and an engine that sounds something like a sewing machine.
Generally speaking, it is simply one big joke.
Most real racing books would advise that speed comes from "economy of movement", getting the job done with the minimum amount of force required.
All racing books will tell you that drivers with Mechanical Sympathy are much more likely to win races and secure drives for further seasons. I'm not sure the linkages on a few real cars could stand that amount of unnecessary force! You can be fast AND smooth you know.
Just my two pence of course.
All racing books will tell you that drivers with Mechanical Sympathy are much more likely to win races and secure drives for further seasons. I'm not sure the linkages on a few real cars could stand that amount of unnecessary force! You can be fast AND smooth you know.
Just my two pence of course.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG