Quote from jtw62074 :

You destroyed the tires, that's fine and happens. What happened to the lateral grip before then? Did they heat up and suddenly you couldn't do the same lap times as before? Notice any significant drop off in cornering speed? Where these tires the ones that were recommended for the car or did you pick out your own off the shelf?

This was on a 15 year old sportscar, I dunno if they bother to recommend for those, but they were certainly not 'sports' tyres. You're right that I didn't notice much change in grip until the tread blocks peeled off. I've never noticed any change in grip on road tyres except from cold to warm to destroyed - but then I also have no idea just how hot I've got real 'sports' tyres. It does seem that even my proper 'sports' tyres, when treated in a similar fashion, were heading down the path of destruction without noticeably losing grip. spots of what looked liked blistering, chunks out of side tread, etc.

Quote from jtw62074 :

This isn't an issue of tire destruction, really. You can let the tire cool back down and you'll regain the grip in the sim. Different scenario from what you're describing, I think.

Sure. I was more responding to your argument (or at least, what I thought it was ) that more accurate physics would be be
useful for drifters in terms of tyre life...

Todd - I appreciate your depth of theoretical understanding on these subjects, but I honestly think you're off track on this one. Perhaps the current implementation of temperature vs grip is totally wrong - this doesn't mean a more realistic tyre degradation model would be 'useful' for drifters. I have no temperature data from my experiences, but I do know it didn't take many laps at fairly moderate slide angles / power output, to completely destroy a set of harder compound street tyres - to the point where I had to stop or trash the guards on my car.

the yellow line is the only one that uses the whole track. the red line starts from the inside, and the blue line misses the first apex.
but as others have said - it depends.
As for FE green - over the course of a recent race there in the ufr I generally clipped the first curb, but the fastest laps were generally getting the turn in hard enough so that only the 2nd curb was clipped. That's mainly because they're so goddamn big though

Last edited by Blowtus, Wed, 12 Jul 2006 06:31.

I like assymetric setups. My ideal for a race set is one that is setup optimally for the 'main' side, and then setup so that the less used side responds the same way, albeit with slightly different overall grip. Ie, if you have mild oversteer on turn in on your main side, you want the minor side to do the same, over the course of the race. sometimes this may involve dramatically different pressures and cambers. Try to avoid the temptation to set each side up to heat to optimum temperature - if you're only doing one or two turns a lap on the minor side, it's likely that a little less grip through turns there is more than made up for by running a more realistic tyre pressure and getting better acceleration / top speed.

you sure about that compound stuff Woz? When I stuck 'standard' tyres on the back of my rx7, they were falling apart after about 5 laps (40 seconds in a basic sportscar) of sillyness. They didn't 'wear out' from the heat, the hard rubber just chunked very, very badly and got torn apart. Softer, sportier tyres, last far, far longer in the same circumstances.

left foot braking with the throttle applied is available as a directional control technique even with the brakes set to 'normal' levels. I think it's much more likely the 'friend' originally in question was just wrong

20 below optimum, I believe.

I concur

Quote from george_tsiros :

Does "bad analogy" ring any bells?

I thought it made it's point well enough
Being 'limited' by something that does a better job than you, is not really a problem...

Quote from george_tsiros :

If you brake using ABS, then you are limited by the ABS.

If you brake without ABS, you are limited only by your skills.

if you jump out of an aeroplane with a parachute, you are limited by the parachute.

If you jump out of an aeroplane without a parachute, you are limited only by your skills.

Wish we still had choke knobs to pull out on startup. I was so much better at it than the damn computer

so you have the left wheels in a puddle, the right wheels on dry tarmac, yet somehow, 35 years of track driving experience can overcome the limitation of one brake pedal?

how can one human controlled brake pedal beat 4 computer controlled ones? Seriously? Given entirely optimum surface and vehicle conditions, then perhaps, but in non optimum, real world, repeated tests?

there's a few here showing their ignorance

click for comprehensive ABS vs panic vs best effort test
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/v ... apubs/sae1999-01-1287.pdf

decent abs systems will run more than one channel - so brake pressure can be applied more individually between the wheels, shortening stopping distances.
the single brake pedal is a compromise. given a perfectly talented alien, with a brake pedal for each wheel, I'm sure they'd do a better job than any abs system.

Last edited by Blowtus, Sun, 9 Jul 2006 05:01.

Quote from ajp71 :

Never heard of regaining traction causing problems. It's more common to have a choice in locking up into a wall or spinning the car and risk rolling it in the gravel. I know someone who chose the second option and rolled it at Le Mans Classic (no belts = punctured lung + broken bones :doh.

I was talking about once already in a spin. locked wheels will bring the car to a stop as quickly as possible and avoid spearing off crazily when any wheels find grip. Of course, no extra braking force is required to be able to do that - I can see no reason for having more braking force available than the max possible for any corner.

only reason I'm aware of for intentionally locking your wheels is when things have gone past the point of no return, and you want to limit damage / exert vague control over direction. in a spin without locked wheels you can have them gain traction and cause consiberable problems (rollovers, veering into walls, etc)

many braking zones will lockup one or two wheels before the others - in cases like this it's generally 'faster' (assuming you keep it under control) to put up with a locked wheel or two and get max braking from the other wheels. There are other times where you may go through a bumpy section which temporarily locks wheels - better to temporarily lock them and get maximum braking force the rest of the time, imho.

find an unpopular combination, there are plenty out there. the league I'm in with ufr's has seen 2 of us lapping under wr time on occasions, on race sets...

I did some drags the other night testing effects of rear tyre pressure and toe on the straightline speed of the ufr...

I prefer to call it 'windscreen view'
sif drive with a real and virtual cockpit

a virtual tacho and speedo is very useful - a virtual display of how far my wheel is turned is not. The ability to turn these on and off seperately would be useful.

cars in lfs still slide pretty funny. anyone that doesn't think so need only take the fxo for a gentle drive and feel the rear end float around...

Quote from sgt.flippy :

Sorry if I sound rude, but having the suggestion to press F12 is just lame, it's a simulator, so I should be seeing this kind of stuff in my car and not onscreen.

Do you wear a helmet when you race?

Quote from Gunn :

Well it (test patch beta team special forum) would minimise the need for Scawen to wade through uneccessary posts in order to gauge patch feedback. It would also keep the relevant test patch discussion focused in just one place. Two fair reasons not to release it publicly in the event of a private test forum.

surely the test patch beta team special forum people would post their useful discussion in the test patch beta team special forum, yeah? Not like Scavier is forced to read every random thread around the place if he doesn't want to. Anyway, fairly useless discussion this one so I'm done on this point.