Quote from Nick_ll :

Good points you make, but on this particular one, wouldn't the XRT have wider rear tires than fronts?
I would expect such a car to have 225's rear and something like 205 up front.

I don't believe either the starion or rx7 ever came with wider rear tyres than fronts - it's not a common thing the factory would go for.

the cars should either be balanced or unclassed, and not close enough in performance to class. having classes with 1 clear winner narrows the depth of cars used in lfs massively.

if league organisers ran rb4/xrt and fxr / xrr leagues, there would at least be 2 reasonable car choices instead of one...

I have no idea why... works fine here :|

lx6 so long reversed.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~cdriver/LX6_soLrevq7race.zip

ran 1:46.87 (quicker than current wr) for qual recently, should be pretty easy to drive too. tyres got a little hot after 8 laps so may need tweaking as a longer distance race set.

Hey folks. Figured I'd post the link to a few wrapup movies from one of our Australian leagues, Monday Night Racing. All movies are around 100mb. Most recent one isn't listed under files yet but can be found under news.

http://www.mondaynightracing.com/files.php

Quote from tristancliffe :

Catalysts are very sensitive, as I'm sure you're aware, to mixtures far from stoich, quite apart from the detonation issues (which could be resolved by retarding the ignition), and I'd have thought that even a few seconds of leanness a day would eventually do nasty things to it.

A quick search has a few people talking about pulsing the injectors on occasionally during DFCO (automotive acronym for deceleration fuel cut off, useful for further searches if you're keen) and I know my car kills one bank of injectors before the other - whether that's enough to mitigate any damage, or even whether the damage is worth worrying about, I have no idea.

Quote from evilgeek :

of course it would be simple to program the ecu to tell the injectors to do whatever you want, but unless you have an actual example of a motor that cuts them off, then you are speculating just as much as anyone else. i don;t doubt that some motors reduce the amount of fuel injected at high revs and low throttle, but i am still highly doubtful that any engine would cut the injection completely off, because of the potential damage to the motor. that was my only point, and i don't see why you gotta be so sarcastic.

I posted a few links in the reply to Tristan. My own car, built way back in 1988, has this feature, and it is one of the most dangerous around to run on a lean condition - turbo rotary and all that. Wasn't trying to be particularly sarcastic, I just find it interesting how many people post answers in threads like this without having the answer - but I guess I wasn't expecting deceleration fuel cut to come as such a surprise to people.

but... that'd be a balanced car class? We don't deserve them...

Quote from tristancliffe :

On a gasoline engine, if the throttle is close, the rpms are high and no fuel is added, then it would all go very very lean - this is bad for catalysts, and could potentially cause detonation in the worse cases. Thus a certain amount of fuel is added to combust, so that the catalyst and engine remain safe, but it's a sufficiently small amount so as not to accelerate the engine and nullify the closing of the throttle.

But I might be wrong...

wrong
it's really not an uncommon feature at all.
I don't know heaps about stupidly lean combustion mechanics, but I doubt it's particularly similar to 18:1 style, sucking a gutful of air and running out of fuel, melt your pistons combustion - we'd be talking much less air.

http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=64 see under deceleration
http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelinjection.htm see deceleration fuel cut

2 links, no doubt plenty more if you're keen.

I tweaked the tps on my rx7 a while back to prevent this injector shutoff (15 years of age seems to have made it a little clunky) and the car drove really nicely but gave a lot of backfiring on overrun.

Quote from evilgeek :

so put two and two together, and you'll see that when coasting downhill, the motor is sucking at least some air into itself, and that the injection system will add some fuel to the mix, even though it usually wont be very much.

You don't think it's a simple matter to combine a tps signal of 0% and rpm signal above some arbitrary value, and cut power to the injectors? Or does everything still run on carburettors in Canada?

The amount of people keen to explain stuff without basic knowledge of how and why things works is always interesting...

Quote from wheel4hummer :

It is on a carburated car though. And, isnt it also called the "accelerator"?

It's not! The carby adds fuel because of the air flowing through it, it doesn't add fuel because you pressed the throttle.

most efi cars cut fuel at 0% throttle above a certain rpm.

I generally love the slippy street cars, but that arse heavy thing is horrible. lx6 all the way for me.

thinking back on all my lapping, the corner I think gives me the most trouble to get 'right' is the turn 1 combo on aston club reversed - coming down from high speed, on the brakes, drift right, opens out left. It's not very dangerous, but it was exceedingly rare for me to feel like I got all I could out of it.

Also agree that the final corner of westhill is a bugger to get right.
The bumpy sweeper on south city long reverse is dangerous (particularly for passing!!) but I've never had that much trouble doing it pretty well.

yeah, by 'arbitrarily preheated' I meant the current level of pre-heating (up to what, 90 degrees or so for some tyres?) seemed just as unrealistic as being able to adjust the temp - was curious why you didn't think so, I understand it's just an opinion and your not bashing it as gospel

Quote from tristancliffe :

I know realism isn't totally obtainable, otherwise we'd spend 100 hours working on the car for every hour we drive, but having configurable tyre temps just to make the whole process easier/quicker I personally think would spoil it.

Why do you think it would be worse than arbitrarily preheated tyres??

Quote from joeynuggetz :

I just wish we could get one, just one real world track. My dream would be to unleash LFS's superior physics on a real world track we play everyday in all the ISI based sims. This would be so fulfilling. Not sure what the devs are waiting for. Do like ISI did and call it something else to avoid the licensing issues. Heck, or even make a fictional track thats available in both sims. I'd be more than ok with that.

suppose you learnt that all the tracks in lfs were based on real tracks, but they were not 'big name' real tracks - would that change anything for you? I don't understand it.

Quote from XCNuse :

@jamex; no ones against it, its just that people are against the way other people bring up the topic and how they suggest it

a stabilised keyboard feels more realistic than a dfp...????

yeah, heaps of Starions came out with auto blip, sheesh.

Quote from Woz :

You will also find that almost everyone here prefers RL driving to LFS because of the extra feedback you get. In a sim you have to learn all the queues through the senses the sim does stimulate and then translate those to full in the blanks so you understand what the car is doing.

This means you have a lag in your reactions as the translation takes time and you also receive the queues later than you would get them IRL because IRL the key sense is your body.

You still have to translate and understand the cues from a real car though...?? If anything I'd have thought I had quicker reactions in LFS because the responses are much more 'pure', I'm not getting all manner of feedback from the car that I don't need at that point in time, I can just feel the wheels... I can also set the ff and steering lock to suitable levels such that I can get the wheel to the right spot more quickly.

Quote from tristancliffe :

A real racing driver has the same skills about learning lines and what have you, but has to do it in a cramped and debilitatingly hot environment, being thrown around by g-forces and restrained by tight fitting seats and belts, with a heavy helmet on. They will be more used to feeling the car the conventional way, through the seat of his pants, through his arms and feet, and via perfectly realistic sounds.

All fair points, though not all the cars in LFS would have cramped and debilitatingly hot environments in real life, many would be perfectly comfortable
I'm not even sure I even notice a helmet once I start getting really stuck in...

which itself was almost as quick as the 4 year old win98, yeah?

people really seem to glorify driving 'real' cars. It's just more expensive and you deal with more forces, no? Sure there are physics differences - but to me, driving a formula ford in lfs would seem more similar to doing that in reality, than hauling an econo hatchback around a real race track. Suggesting that a 'real' race driver would have talent at sims, but a 'sim' race driver would have no talent for real, doesn't make much sense to me. Surely if there is a relationship between the two, it would work both ways? I have found this to be the case, though don't do much on the track in my car these days. Experiments with clutch pack difs in lfs have given me much more feel for why my 'real' car exhibits such appalling power on understeer, as one basic example.

Last edited by Blowtus, Thu 7 Sep 2006, 15:45.

what you may know was the best pass of all your lfs driving, can look very average to others. I pulled off a pass in the lx6 on the first turn (starting at the high speed sweeper then into hairpin) at so long rev recently, had been looking for a way around this guy all race, got on the outside of him, forcing him slightly out of position and slower than usual, I backed off early, he drifted wide, I pulled around the inside, he outbraked me up the inside into the hairpin, but couldn't hold it and drifted a touch wide, letting me get the run from the exit. Felt great and I know it *was* great, but on the replay it just looks like a fairly mundane pass

Last edited by Blowtus, Thu 7 Sep 2006, 15:22.

hmm, I thought it was a pretty damn decent pass. I know how hard it is to hang close through corners in the fox with the lack of downforce. Certainly it looked like a struggle to get by, took a long time. Nice work.