a stabilised keyboard feels more realistic than a dfp...????

yeah, heaps of Starions came out with auto blip, sheesh.

Quote from Woz :

You will also find that almost everyone here prefers RL driving to LFS because of the extra feedback you get. In a sim you have to learn all the queues through the senses the sim does stimulate and then translate those to full in the blanks so you understand what the car is doing.

This means you have a lag in your reactions as the translation takes time and you also receive the queues later than you would get them IRL because IRL the key sense is your body.

You still have to translate and understand the cues from a real car though...?? If anything I'd have thought I had quicker reactions in LFS because the responses are much more 'pure', I'm not getting all manner of feedback from the car that I don't need at that point in time, I can just feel the wheels... I can also set the ff and steering lock to suitable levels such that I can get the wheel to the right spot more quickly.

Quote from tristancliffe :

A real racing driver has the same skills about learning lines and what have you, but has to do it in a cramped and debilitatingly hot environment, being thrown around by g-forces and restrained by tight fitting seats and belts, with a heavy helmet on. They will be more used to feeling the car the conventional way, through the seat of his pants, through his arms and feet, and via perfectly realistic sounds.

All fair points, though not all the cars in LFS would have cramped and debilitatingly hot environments in real life, many would be perfectly comfortable
I'm not even sure I even notice a helmet once I start getting really stuck in...

which itself was almost as quick as the 4 year old win98, yeah?

people really seem to glorify driving 'real' cars. It's just more expensive and you deal with more forces, no? Sure there are physics differences - but to me, driving a formula ford in lfs would seem more similar to doing that in reality, than hauling an econo hatchback around a real race track. Suggesting that a 'real' race driver would have talent at sims, but a 'sim' race driver would have no talent for real, doesn't make much sense to me. Surely if there is a relationship between the two, it would work both ways? I have found this to be the case, though don't do much on the track in my car these days. Experiments with clutch pack difs in lfs have given me much more feel for why my 'real' car exhibits such appalling power on understeer, as one basic example.

Last edited by Blowtus, Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:45.

what you may know was the best pass of all your lfs driving, can look very average to others. I pulled off a pass in the lx6 on the first turn (starting at the high speed sweeper then into hairpin) at so long rev recently, had been looking for a way around this guy all race, got on the outside of him, forcing him slightly out of position and slower than usual, I backed off early, he drifted wide, I pulled around the inside, he outbraked me up the inside into the hairpin, but couldn't hold it and drifted a touch wide, letting me get the run from the exit. Felt great and I know it *was* great, but on the replay it just looks like a fairly mundane pass

Last edited by Blowtus, Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:22.

hmm, I thought it was a pretty damn decent pass. I know how hard it is to hang close through corners in the fox with the lack of downforce. Certainly it looked like a struggle to get by, took a long time. Nice work.

Quote from Becky Rose :

When I go karting i'm tough as nails on the circuit, i'll nerf, tap, rub, cut you up and dice you to get passed and I wont think twice about doing so either. I've only ever had 1 black flag penalty in all my years which was a missunderstanding over a yellow flag, but I know what I can get away with and that's exactly how far i'll go.

the level of agression / racing in karting isn't necessarily representative of more 'normal' racing though, from what I've seen??

I think there is heaps to be gained from it. Race lines, race craft, learning to feel what the car is doing and adjusting it's balance to suit you, developing instinctive reactions to certain situations...

Quote from csimpok :

And in real life you can say that you want the tyres to be 70 degrees celsius? Maybe on a BF1 but not on a GTI...

considering the tyres already start pre-warmed, I don't understand this argument? If you were arguing for the tyres to start at ambient temperature on the road cars in all situations I would agree with you - but we would also need better temp vs grip modelling I *think*. Currently the tyres start pre-warmed - It'd be a funny prewarming system that you couldn't specify a rough temperature to get the tyres to I believe.

any other car and I'd probably agree with you I ran totally pumped rear tyres and a very oversteery set, partially compensated for with a 7000rpm idle (dxtweak2 fun) with great success all series - once I'd ironed out that nasty brake reduction snap oversteer. Next time I fire up LFS I'll spend a few minutes checking out this situation again though, and see if lots of toe in causes a similar effect - will help square it up in my mind if nothing else.

Quote from Captain Slow :

ahh but we do get the benefit from the money that comes from demo players getting s2, as it helps improve the game that we use, so although we dont use it, technically, it still affects us.

you don't think that maybe, just maybe, the devs aren't doing this purely out of undying love for us all, and they want to make money out of it too?

Quote from Gentlefoot :

My guess is that you are ending up with too much toe-in on the outside tyre for the fast corner once you set the parallel steer to 0%. This will reduce the amount of grip available at the front drammatically meaning less oversteer. Remember, you need a higher parallel steer percentage for fast corners.

Like I said, it was only in the transition phase though - entry without brakes, mid corner, and exit, were unaffected. I guess it's things like that that are hindering my understanding... I'm going to make a point of experimenting more with the steering settings for my lx6 set this week.

drivers republic sounds interesting. Funny to read about all these 'innovative' development styles of it though when it sounds just like the LFS model
Having a mech engineer as the driving force behind the physics can't hurt...

I don't understand why that effect would only be noticeable when lifting off heavy brakes though - seems like if that were the case I'd have needed to adjust my neutral cornering balance too?

an understanding of the steering geometry strikes me as the thing most lacking in my understanding of setups. I've read in depth articles on ackermann and alignment, but I still can't get the feel for it very well. I'm not sure whether it's a fault of mine, LFS, or it's always just a fairly experimental aspect of setups.

Can anyone explain the dynamics behind the following situation? uf gtr with 100% parallel steer would snap the tail out quite dramatically as brakes were lifted off at high speed (for high speed sweeping corners) but with parallel steer at 0%, this behaviour was much reduced, and no difference was noted anywhere else. This was on kyoto national but I then stayed with 0% for the rest of the series iirc.

the devs have already made the decision to give away a top notch demo - dunno why anyone would realistically think it's any of their business what is included in the demo myself.

urgh, not one of those 'pc's from a shop'
ram and motherboard are not going to play much part in lfs performance, unless you want to get into overclocking, so far as I can see.

my athlon 1800 played lfs fine, main benefit I saw from upgrading it was that I can go through replays at 16x now...

might go make a poll and see if people want more cars, more tracks, better graphics, and better physics... or I guess I could ask them if they'll be buying s3?

Quote from Rtsbasic :

I brought a 6600GT a few months ago for my system. I'm happy with it, runs most games on pretty high settings, and I only paid around £70 new for it.

I am left wanting a little more though in very recent games. Does LFS a treat though.

LFS still looks too jaggy / flickery for my tastes with my 6600gt. if I turn the AA up higher the fps drops too much.

you can easily see what is holding you back. drop your resolution to 640x480 with no antialiasing etc, does your frame rate increase? If yes, your vid card is limiting you. a celeron 2.8 should be plenty to play lfs at a good frame rate, a better graphics card will let you run at a higher res with antialiasing etc turned on, so will look much prettier.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I have raced in LX4 in a mixed grid of LX4s and LX6s and didn't let LX6s pass without fight. Imho, you should always race for position when it's safe and strategically wise. If they are skilled enough they will pass you anyway. In the meantime, enjoy the fight

If you're going to get passed by them eventually, there really is no point holding yourself and them up in a battle - just lets those in front get further away and those behind get closer.
That said, I'd likely do exactly the same

actually I think there is another inaccurate physics effect at work making high pressures more useful than you say. Posted a thread a while back with little response - http://www.lfsforum.net/showth ... 79&highlight=pressure

the fox likes high pressure on all 4 tyres, the ufr / xfr like it on the rear - will be experimenting a little more with the lx6 this evening, but I doubt it will benefit.

interesting thread, nice pics Tweaker. Hard to know whether those pics are representative of the deformation occuring within the physics engine, or whether they are just a graphical thing though? Would be nice to get a shot of a similar 'real' car, without the car there also hahah.

I used to create setups aiming for a fairly even distribution of temperature, at least on the 'heavily used' side of the car - but I'm finding lately that more negative camber is better, and forget the big temp difference. Heat does seem to take a very long time to bleed through the tyres - I wonder whether heat is only transferred between outer tread and inner air, rather than from outer tread to outer tread? Have no real data to base any of those thoughts on.