Quote from Bob Smith :

Well that's not always been the case, the FO8 was created back before S1 was released, go karts have been created (we presume, there are kart tracks and kart car types) but never released, bits of Aston were in S1, etc. Not totally obvious IMO.

Hence my question above, Bob.

Quote from Scawen :

Well that's not true. Please - if you want to say that I've said things, and you are interpreting them very loosely, could you post a link to the post? Otherwise you are just spreading false information and attaching my name to it. That's how rumours start.

Eric is working on S2 things. He obviously will not work on S3 specific things until S2 is finished. The only thing I could have said about Eric not working full time is that for some time this year he was moving house.

He must be referring to the post about Eric moving house (and the subsequent requests for "kitchen updates"), because that's the only time I've seen you mention him not working on LFS.

And could you clarify one thing for us (me)?

You say Eric will obviously not work on S3 specific things before S2 is final, so would that mean that the fruits of his labor ever since the BF1 introduction and probably everything that was rumored before that will all be released in one giant incompatible update? So if he's been working on new tracks/cars at all, that those are for S2, rather than S3? Not saying there are new tracks or cars, just that we might expect some rather nice updates from Eric's side of things in S2, instead of S3.

BTW, what are you doing here? You're supposed to be taking a break, m8

Quote from Davo :

anime pron.

Which is called Hentai... FYI

(did I give something away now? Oops... I just love Anime, and sometimes when downloading some Anime it turns out to be Hentai )

Quote from CSU1 :

1). I dont understand, no airflow underneath a notebook? I own a Toshiba Equim A60, the 'intake' for the main fan is directly above my right knee which is UNDERNEATH the notebook! I know its a stupid place to put it> why not have it at the side or rear?

2). as above.

3) . Now c'mon "current Architecture"....lmao I think getting a fan to run backwards for a minute or two is not really the most technical of problems! lol, "short the mainboard" ... I was refering to twenty first century hardware

@ 1 + 2... Get anything but a tosti-bah notebook That's not the spot where they all have them. (edit: by the way, that doesn't solve the heat problem on the bottom of notebooks)

@3: It's true... It could be done... But fans aren't designed to run both ways... They simply do not work efficiently at all if they're turning the wrong way. Second is that the mainboard operates on direct current, and the fan is connected directly to the power outlet... It would require a seperate power converter to make it turn both ways... Which requires room, which is in short supply in a notebook. Especially if the fan is not going to work properly running one of the ends.

Quote from CSU1 :

@ jibber: so where did the term/name 'Laptop' come from then?????????

From end-users who didn't know better... The things are called notebooks or portable computers.

Quote :

Also back On topic: I think that designers of 'laptops' MUST design so:
1). They don't burn/slowly cook the users legs, by either letting hot air escape along rear of LCD screen
2). Placing the fan intake ANYWHERE other than the bottom of the box< because that just makes no sense what so ever as thats where the lap is in 'Laptop'.
3). Designing the fan system to 'reverse'/ blow outwards at certain times when there is little heat needing to be dissapated , to clean dust from back of cooling plates.... because that would just make sense

1. Impossible. There's no airflow underneath a notebook. The air is actually led out through the back or side. There is heat leaking through the bottom, but as long as notebooks are supposed to be flat, that will never be fixed (for less than $1000 worth of thermal plating).

2. What air intake? It's at the back or the side (other end of the exhaust, basically).

3. Cannot be done using the current architecture. Fans simply don't blow the way they suck, plus it needs to alternate the current which would short just about everything else on that part of the mainboard.

I just love how M$ said it was a complete re-write from scratch so that all the old bugs were no longer relevant and everything was much better adjusted to everything else in Windows...

Then we get the first vulnerability for Vista... And guess what? The same bug exists in XP and 2000 and NT... What do they mean, complete re-write from scratch?

Quote from herki :

bah!
quoting yourself is important to draw attention to yourself

illepall It worked, too

Quote from herki :

chicken says: "herki made teh bestest post evaar!"

chicken says: "Herki needs to realise it's actually pretty sad if you end up quoting yourself on teh f0rumz"

Chicken looks up and says:
"HAX0RZ!!!! I forgot my computer's password and need HAX0RZ to break it open... Not AXEs!"

Quote from BWX232 :

With Today's CPU's? I doubt it. I'm getting 200 FPS with all settings maxed out- I doubt one more sound reverb affect is going to crush my PC (or anyone else's). I mean it doesn't slow down when you go under a bridge and you hear that echo-reverb affect.

Anyway.. I hope it is something that they at least experiment with on their own and see what happens. Maybe it will add some life to the in-car sounds?

It may have a completely different and far worse effect though. It may produce lag in the audio latency of the mixing drivers, causing constant clicking and hopping in the sound playback. Of course this depends on the driver model used by LFS. I suspect the old Vista sound playback problems were also caused by this phenomenon, but I can't be sure.

I still want these effects, though.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

At Kyoto National you are able to set hotlaps driving with all four wheels on the 'apron' or pit lane entrance and exits. This cuts about 500 metres from the track length. This has a significant effect on laptime.

My suggestion is that in hotlapping HLVC invalidates any laps where all four wheels touch the apron.

Which car?
Most cars I drive there bleed off way too much speed on the apron (or just understeer up). In fact, on the outlap I stay as high as possible to get the most speed on the line for the flying lap.

Quote from AtomAnt :

A Chicken walks into a bar,
Farmer Bob rushes at the chicken with AXE in hand...


Chicken looks up and Says.."

"Craftsman... *Not* the official tool of KFC... The official tool of NASCAR".

I claim Starscream.

Quote from JTbo :

http://home.swipnet.se/850-styling/btcc.htm

Surprisingly, Volvo has been in racing in past and not the slowest team. Also best era in touring cars included Volvo:
Group-a

So granny car that is fast, why not

Hmmm... from your first link:

Although Jan Lammers manage to performe well this was the first and final year from him in the BTCC. He decided after the season to abandon touring cars "because of the driving style".

Even back then they were just a bunch of wreckers, apparently, because he's raced almost everything else with 4 wheels and enjoyed it.

RIP James...

Brings a whole new meaning to this song:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cr_6q9DcSiM

So, you're saying that when LFS is done with all the graphics, physics updates, and sounds in the way the Devs keep saying it's going to be done, it will be the most popular sim in the interwebz?

I can't wait for S3 now

Merry Christmas to all of you.

Quote from JeffR :

In real life, no lift sequential shifters are faster than standard shifters, so why wouldn't a game be the same way? I've notice that LFS doesn't shift as fast as the real thing in some cases.

Fast sequential shifter (like XTRAC), turndown the sound because the rear end whine is really high pitched and loud when the car is at higher speeds.

Assen-bmwSTW.wmv

Formula 1 car back in 2002 when the sequential shifters were fully automatic:

spaf1.wmv

BMW M3 GTR Race car at combined Nurburgring / Nordschleife (two laps at Nurburgring, first is a warmup, at end of second lap, the car goes onto Nordschleife. It's a pattern shifter, but apparently a no clutch / no lift one.

m3gtrnrd.wmv

That BMW at Assen just sounds like it's going to explode.

Regarding the other GTR BMW... That's neither a no clutch nor a no lift one... At least in the slower parts he's definitely clutching and lifting... He may not clutch above 3rd gear on downshifts though. Although the clutches in these things are basically an on/off switch, so it's faster than you can do in LFS. They're also a pita to get off the line in a normal fashion as he proves while leaving the pits

Quote from JeffR :

Which leads to a more factual based answer to the LFS vs XYZ threads. Why is it that so few of the GPL / NR2003 / GTP / ISI based top racers (alians) play LFS? Greger Huttu has moved on to ISI based racing games. So have most of the other "aliens" from the older sims. Now part of this was because LFS had buggy tire physics until the recent releases, but I still don't see much interest in the current LFS from the older "aliens", as only a few of them play LFS.

Greger Huttu is a member of Team Redline. Most of the current team activity invovles ISI based racing sims. There are more Team Redline members that play the Toca Race Driver series than LFS. Aki Räsänen, aka "Lefty" is a member that appears to be the most active with LFS.

What is it about LFS that has made it a "niche" component of PC based sim racing?

I'm way out of line for saying this, so please take it for what it is... A comment made in jest...

But... Could my assumption of 'aliens' have anything to do with it? They don't race LFS as it doesn't allow them to be 'aliens' because of the vastly superior physics?

Then again, for Team Redline (not to be confused with LFS's Redline Racing) it might just be pressure from their Sponsor (BRD, for those that don't know). They need a bigger audience, so they stay away from the really small communities like LFS.

EDIT: I know for a fact that Greger does in fact have an S2 license, and has done some racing in LFS.

Last edited by TagForce, Mon 25 Dec 2006, 01:20.

Quote from RichardTowler :

no fast drivers are fast drivers, the 'bugs' do not make them fast

There's no doubt they are fast drivers. Guys like Greger Huttu have my utmost respect for their abilities.

This whole thing got blown way out of proportion... I urge you to take a look at some RBR World Records to see an exaggerated example of what I was talking about (if you call that realistic driving I'll have to call you illepall, but I know you won't).

In the end, I like LFS for it's realistic physics, and I like GPL for the exact same thing, and I love NR2003S for both realistic physics and oval racing.

Quote from RichardTowler :

I still don't see what the hell that has to do with 'aliens' pushing the sim to its limits is pushing the car to its limits, this is what seperates the really fast drivers from the average drivers. I really doubt most top racing teams and drivers, both real and virtual are where they are by just standard thinking.

Personally I don't like running with some of teh really bad stuff on LFS setups as it really ruins the handling, but I don't hold that against people and I certainly don't think its cheating.

Where did I say it was cheating? Chill, m8.
It is just a fact that in games (LFS included, although atm to a lesser extend) that simulate real cars, it's the bugs in the physics system that make people ultra-fast. Sure there'll be faster and slower drivers, just as there are in real world racing. I never denied that. Just that the playing field will be more level.

Quote from J.B. :

Here's another trailer: http://www.apple.com/trailers/ ... s/transformers_large.html

This one seems to confirm that the movie has little resemblance to the original storyline. IMO the movie should begin with the war on Cybertron, followed by the the Transformers spending millions of years "sleeping" beneath the earth and then being awakened by an earth quake.

They should've used the Phobos 2 mars mission for that, because that actually was a mysterious loss of an otherwise perfectly good craft. It shot pictures that were released, and those pictures contained an unidentified object. It's final video transmission was also released to the general public, minus the final few frames (was the object in it again?). Everything about that failed mission is one big mystery, and the reaction to it was also quite strange (world leaders suddenly talking about extra terrestrial threats in a 'what if...' kind of way and stuff).

I didn't say LFS was perfect... It's just that there were bigger problems that got solved, and the field is now closer as a result of that... And using certain non-setup related settings doesn't qualify as a physics loophole. But that's besides the point. One of the things that DOES still cause big differences is the suspension damage model. It's still possible to jump kerbs unrealistically, and that is a problem.

Quote from RichardTowler :

so aliens are people that exploit the physics and thats the only reason they are fast? uh no. The term alien was just used when someone was faster than expected and people had to make a silly name for it.

They are always just fast and slow drivers, the faster drivers are usually people that just push the sim to its limits, not only from a driving point of view, but setup point of view. And thats the simple reason why some people are faster than others.

The 'oh they are only faster because they drive unrealistic' is just an excuse by slower drivers who cannot handle the fact they are actually slower than other people and need a reason to validate to themself why they are slower which doesn't have to do with driving.

Yes, that is precisely what they're doing. It used to be that way in LFS, with totally unrealistic setups and stuff. It's better now, and guess what... They're not impossibly fast anymore.

The point is, you should not push the SIM to its limits, you should push the CAR to its limits... Pushing the sim to its limits means you're cheating real life physics, which was my point.

If you want to see a great example of a realistic sim with physics holes the size of manhattan, check out RBR.

Quote from StanleyCarter :

What sort of a script is that? is it free for sharing?

LFS scripts...
Yes, I could share them, but you'd need to change all the button and axis numbers because mine are all different... Also, it would only work if you have a G25.

To get the GTRs to have a sequential gearbox, change the 'run road' line into 'run sequential' for all the ??R.lfs files in LFS\data\script

I've included the gearbox script files. Just check it out and then create your own.
If you want to keep using the FO8 with paddles, you'd need to add the /autoclutch 1 line to FO8.lfs


BTW: @devs: Forum misconfiguration... As we can exchange scripts, the .lfs files should be allowed to be attached to forum posts...

LFS, without a doubt.

Although GPL was teh bestest when it came out, it's physics are still among the best ones around, but it is dated. Low Speed grip is way below par, and the sliding that can be done with it is unrealistic. Proof of that is in the difference in fastest laps between mere mortals and "teh aliens".

IMO, in a sim that has ultrarealistic physics without anything that makes it any different from reality, the 'aliens' would not exist. There'd be slow and fast drivers, but they'd all be going for the same limit, the limit of the car. As it is now, limits in the physics engine get exploited by the aliens. LFS doesn't have real 'aliens', just guys that are faster than others. If you compared the average driver's times to the Pre-April-patch physics to the post-april-patch physics, you'll notice that the slower ones are actually closer to world record times, because the physics behave more like real world.

Also, physics is the 'only' thing I want in a sim.