Quote from Scawen :

Seems like there's never an easy day when working with the AI code.

Trying not to over post here but I'm sure I speak for the vast majority when I say that your efforts on this are greatly appreciated.

Also it seems to me that when the new physics and graphics are released there will be a sudden focus on LFS and the first thing that reviewers and YouTube Vloggers will do is jump into an AI race so it will be a downer if they all crash on the first corner. However if it is a better experience it should have a positive affect on your bank balance .

On a practical note, it seems to be a downhill braking problem so could there be a compensation factor for the incline? Also, if a human driver locked a wheel they would release the pressure and reapply the brake whilst perhaps taking a wider line - could this be simulated?

Just some thoughts ...

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And the overall length of track ...

For those that might like to see themselves driving round the outline ...

---if you attach a video
it would be no use
video cap has its own fluency rate
but I think there are examples, I have about 10 videos and I think it is possible to recognize the fluency difference in them.
either 200 mb or 2 gb of examples to show
this is the last of them still live
https://streamable.com/ut1ydh
https://streamable.com/y9e6zz
https://streamable.com/fg8ma8 (blackwood lesson)
https://streamable.com/m1t6of
https://streamable.com/3byx35
https://streamable.com/stdbz3 (official avg license 1:33.13)
https://streamable.com/f6bore

but they are recent, maybe the difference is not that big

but i think there are ones that look like they are not from the same driving simulator due to the fluency change
I will take a look at it, and upload 2 the most differential examples


---you are an extremely fast driver
Thipple Alien license online
Twin Tri Megalien license offline (official statistics)

(the difference in online and offline driving seems quite big for me)


---special attention to smallest details
I did so many things in lfs and operating system for best sport simulator on computer ...


---that similar phenomenon may exist even in the virtual world
it used to be some time ago
performance problems and hard variable-unstable framerate turned sport simulator in to clown world
every corner was from different driving simulator and with its own time flow rate
it is was not cool when flow of time changes three times in 1 corner
you can imagine it like if fps number changed to 40 70 110 in just one corner
also, linux graphic performance may be too sensitive




I would say time constant is now about constant.... Car seems to be driving in corners like they are all from the same universe.
but it is constant as if from different driving simulators every day


!
the new auto shift+f only works appropriately in a single offline race (which is good to have) or when there is nobody online on a server and race never restarts


---What you are proposing is a mind blow
pretty much imagine if you had to drive 1 corner in 20 fps another at 10 fps and next in 300 fps
would you consider that to be a sport simulator ?
it would be like time flows at different rate


(there are pretty important fps settings to prevent this)

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One of the distinctive features of this car, and prominent for the in-car view, is the inset brake discs. I wanted to replicate the vented design (even though the drivers apparently didn't like them!).

I couldn't use the LFS editor discs because the 49's disc are inset too much (circa. 130mm front and 190mm rear) so I needed a solution.

This was before Scawen made the "Hub" sub-object available but I am glad I didn't have that option otherwise I wouldn't have found this ...

I defined the disc faces as "Brake" sub-objects which do not rotate - this may seem counter-intuitive but it means that I could use an image of a real disc with all it's reflections and shadows which would have looked wrong rotating. The illusion of rotating is provided by the ventilation holes which I defined in the wheel "Spoke" definition. The result looks really good in action!!



As I further develop the car I intend to redraw the ventilation holes as "Hub" sub-objects and also create a disc _ALP to allow a metal overlay so that the discs reflect the environment.

Improvement Suggestion
- A bigger range of movement for the disc offset (even though I didn't use them)

Quote from gu3st :

I think it'll be a long time before we ever get realistic tracks with the track editor. Most mod tracks in other sims are just rips from other games which likely won't fly here.

I was just having a conversation with my Director of EMS about building a simulator for ambulance driving. I've had this idea for like ... 15 years ... where I would love to build my town and mod in my ambulances to use as a way to teach driving an emergency vehicle without the threat of putting a 175k - 1M dollar ambulance at risk.

No, I don't think this is ideal weight distribution, no idea what would be better ... 50/50? Or more to the rear?

I've added the tachometer, now trying to make it less aggressive at revving at idle.

After watching this video and then trying most of those games, physics were as unconvincing as I remembered (in different ways) so I thought LFS must be able to represent the car better.

It started with wrestling a coffin-shaped experiment around Blackwood, trying to get the right feeling. And then it snowballed ...

This is what it looks like so far.



I hope to use this thread as both a progress report and to contribute some improvement suggestions and their justifications. Hopefully at the end of it there will be a released car!

Hi there
This is my custom mod Yotota Oarer with a 4.5L V8 Turbocharged ... 702 bhp / 523 kW , 799 Nm and some visual modification ! Mod inspired by eunosna !

Qualifying:


Race:


Winner:


Race statistics / RTFR .mpr folder / Event rating and other statistics (will be updated later this week)


This tuesday in RTSR (Rony's Tuesday's Slow Race)... Despite some assumptions,this wasn't even close to be slowest RTFR ever as with average speed of 86km/h yesterday's race was 12km/h faster than 86th RTFR,run with UF1 at Fern Bay's smaller rallycross track. In total there have been 5 RTFR races with slower average speed,unsurprisingly 3 of those were run with slowest LFS' standard car UF1,other 2 - with XRG and MRT each. Also this was the 2nd ever RTFR's visit on South City's Sprint 2 configuration,however the other race was run in other direction,so the series is still discovering new standard tracks. With quite little space around and low speeds,this was pretty much a crowded race where multiple cars were trying to go for same real estate spot,causing plenty of paint trading,still there were no noticable complaints between drivers.

R.Kardol got used to this car well,being the fastest in qualifying just shy of rumored track record (unfortunatelly no readable data with this mod in Airio) set in practice,scoring his 16th and Netherland's 20th pole position. He used his advantage of best starting position well to lead all 35 laps and score his 18th RTFR race win,rounding also in this stat his country's win count to 20. Additionally it was the dutchman's 78th top5 finish. If some struggled with this car,it was the best result ever for others - Doni finished 2nd yesterday,improving his personal best finishing position by 1,while during the race he set his 1st ever fastest lap of the race,additionally scoring also his 15th top5 finish. Arska was one of 3 drivers to finish in same position they started from - the finn took 3rd position in both qualifying and race,which is his 21st top5 finish. Fnatic finished 4th scoring his 4th top5 finish,Three Jump repeated his personal best finishing position 5th for the 2nd time,while improved his best qualifying result by 3 positions as he was 2nd best in the session.

Next week RGE will return to South City with a colorful cars field - the 7th round of RandomCar 2023 series will be run in the longest standard configuration. In 2 weeks time RTFR will start the 2nd scored season of this year with 1st round of 10,run with one of the slick tyre cars. But in 3 weeks time RTFR XL will visit the Layout Square for the 1st time ever - the combo for this race has been submitted and it will be a GT4 version of N.400S run in S1dusring. This combo will be set up for laptime testing soon in RTFR server!

All the tracks have been updated for the new graphics, but some more than others.

From memory, I'll post a few words and you can follow the links for more info. The ones that say "Mainly texture updates" are because the track was already at a high detail level, but needed textures updated for the new specular system (e.g. shine on roads, and many other objects too). Also there would be fixes for objects that did not cast shadows properly.


Blackwood - Mainly texture updates
https://www.lfs.net/report-aug2018-bl

South City - Major overhaul and expansion
https://www.lfs.net/report-may2021-so

Fern Bay - Minor update, mainly road textures and fixes for lighting
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/2028515#post2028515 (December 2022)

Autocross - Major overhaul
https://www.lfs.net/report-dec2018-au

Kyoto - Major overhaul
https://www.lfs.net/report-apr2019-ky

Westhill - Mainly texture updates
https://www.lfs.net/report-jan2019-we

Aston - Major overhaul
https://www.lfs.net/report-oct2018-as

Rockingham - Mainly texture updates
https://www.lfs.net/report-sep2018-ro

...

Most recent South City images: (18 August 2022)
https://www.lfs.net/20th-anniversary

and one week after release you'll get bored again because "it's always the same night and day cycle"... and make a new thread about when the next update because you get bored
hard times in perspective hum lol

Quote from monsternetwork :

Hello, I am recieving issues with PACT, during regular gameplay it ends up crashing after x minutes, and in console it gives an error log «vjoy statement not found» it is not exactly what it says but i can send entire log when i get home

I don’t think i have vjoy installed on current pc, that might be the root issue?

Hey there,

Typically you don't have to install vjoy if...

... You use mouse or keyboard
... Or if you use wheel/joystick and DONT want the car to Autobrake.

If you have a controller/wheel/joystick of some kind or use your mouse as an emulated Controller, deactivate "Auto-Brake" setting in the menu, if you don't wish to install vjoy.

That way the issue should be solved, but the car also will not brake.

Of course you can also install vjoy. Just keep in mind to screenshots or write down your wheel settings as you will need to reset your controller settings in after you've installed vjoy, as it emulates a new controller.

If you have more issues, or that doesn't fix it, feel free to ask

more progress ...

Quote from xolan1993 :

So mainly the goal here isnt to make a copy of LFS but to document the binary for mod development.

Assuming Scawen was OK with it, wouldn't you still need to redo this work every time there's an update? I don't know much about the practicalities of compiling source to an executable (mine are not-that-kind-of-compilation), but is it possible and/or practical to steer a compiler to store variables in a set place in an exe?

Quote from Gutholz :

I am simply not a fan of too much on-screen GUI in sims. For many car classes it feels out of place, too high-tech. I feel that being aware what happens around your car (mirrors, sound, looking around) is an important skill. Radar goes against that. However, on some setups with small screens can be hard to do that so I do not mind if people use it.

Same, if I use a radar it's more for other people's benefit than my own

I always preferred to use the AONIO radar over Lazy's because it was 'lower-tech'... but have to admit Lazy's was much more helpful (too helpful for realism, as you say, but it is nice to not be "that guy who doesn't know what's happening around him" now and then).

Quote from johneysvk :

1 - if you mean code of conduct or gentlemen agreements, won't work, because there's nobody to enforce it and game allows for use of button clutch, to accomodate for different input methods. Maybe it could work differently, sure, but that's one for the devs.
2 - and who's gonna check every lap and do that?

Changing the way the clutch works would result in a noncompatible update, i'm pretty sure, so that would also automatically clear the hotlap list, two birds with one stone.
Maybe it will come in the long awaited update with new physics, guess we'll see

But we can't do anything about this, only the devs do.
Again, assuming you didn't already, if it's really such a big issue, feel free to drop them an e-mail, or maybe wait for one of them to reply on this topic.

And thank you very much for your selfless sacrifice of financing my 'little private games between people that know'
You seem to be thinking it's some super evil cheater cabal, which is really not the case.

P.S.: This game's popularity has little to do with attitudes of 1-2 people in a forum thread (my previous posts might have been a bit over the top though, i admit), but rather slow development pace. I know things are done in a certain way, and it's part of what makes LFS so great, but it's just how it is.
Development is not mine or any other users' responsibility and aside from that i see decent amount of online racing, media content, mods etc. generated by the userbase.
So yeah... crying on the wrong grave here.

1. I haven't thought of a deontology, even if I like the idea . I was talking about the game code which can, for example, make shifting penalizing if the accelerator is left fully depressed. This would partly render the effect of the button clutch obsolete (well, I think).

2. A simple algorithm could analyse the files of the replays and eliminate those on which the pedals are not used correctly. Of course, someone has to be prepared to do this

Don't worry, since there's nothing for me online yet (I don't despair), the sacrifice is bearable. But what I meant was that there are people who love this game (and buy it) who are different from you, who don't have the same ideas or the same practices. They don't expect the same things you do. You still have to give them space for the community to evolve and grow. The important thing, what brings us together, is LFS. Nothing forces us to fight.

For the rest, don't take it for yourself. I said "you" in general. You "people who know" and who remain attached to their customs, little habits and little secrets. I know the LFS community is not a cheating community. It's just disappointing, and also discouraging, to see that the WRs are ... rigged

Without resentment. I'm used to dealing with adversity. I have no problem with that. I sometimes search a bit too

EDIT: We all know that nothing will happen to improve the cheating situation right now. It would be totally counterproductive to spend time on this.
If this discussion makes it possible to underline that the next update will have to be accompanied by a kind of Reset, it is already good.
If the ambition is to cast a wider net than in the existing community, this seems essential. That doesn't mean burying 20 years of history. But to start again on a virgin and healthy base, if possible less permissive.

Last edited by Avraham Vandezwin, Sun 16 Apr 2023, 08:22. Reason : Last clarification

Speaking of nostalgia, I did a small review of my '10 years in LFS' about a year ago:

https://www.facebook.com/micha ... 00/posts/4999071990117482

Had a great time going through all the stuff I've experienced in that time, so many great memories, friendships, battles, championships,... I don't regret a single second spent here

Quote from detail :

They do suport it. Sociology is true...

Apparently you do not live in Russia, which explains a lot. It's funny that when you disagree with my position, you don't offer any counterarguments. You just say no "that's not true"... and what do you expect me to argue with? Am I supposed to answer "no it's not true"? And then we're supposed to throw poop at each other?

Quote from detail :

Pollsters who do these polls, know their job very well -- they do test their questions for bias, they did make different questions to detect different sentiment.

Yes, you're right.. in Russia everything is so fair and correct, sociologists do unbiased surveys, and the police know how to catch criminals, judges know how to punish defendants fairly. Officials in russia know how to take care of citizens and of course they don't take bribes...



Sorry, maybe you put it strangely, but from the outside it looks like you don't know anything about Russia...

Quote from detail :

The argument that Russians are afraid of answering to polls, is a projection of intellectuals.

That's not what I said.

There are at least 3 factors in the fallacy of the poll results in Russia.

1. People with disagreeable opinions will refuse to take the poll. (Fear is one factor in this, most likely the deciding one, but not the only)
2. If people agree to take the survey, they may lie. (All people lie, even in relatively free societies. And they lie even more in authoritarian societies)
3. Faking or manipulating the results. ( Tampering with any results in Russia is common, both with elections and state sociology.)

Each of the three factors affects polling in Russia. And it is obvious to me why.

You haven't given a convincing argument as to why this or that is wrong. Maybe I misunderstood something, and if you have better arguments, I can agree.

Authoritarian societies are characterized by the things I wrote about above. I can't understand what your point is, that Russia is not an authoritarian state? Or that in spite of the fact that Russia is an authoritarian state, why does it drown in things that are characteristic of authoritarian states? Or what?
Lack of reasoning does not bring understanding to your position.

Quote from detail :

Working class and people without degree (that's ~66% of population) don't see the world like a 1984 story and aren't that paranoid. Pollsters say they often started to speak more to them, and those who oppose the official position too.

If you mean higher education (bachelor's degree) as it is called in russia then many of the working class in Russia have degrees, such as designers, engineers, technologists, and so on. Almost all such specialties require a higher education degree. Except for some janitors, cashiers, and so forth. And only those who do not have it 35% So it looks like your figure is taken from the ceiling. As we say in Russia.

And it’s not clear why you decided to take my separate take about the 1984 novel and pass it off as the universal position of all Russians or something, and as if passing it off as my position, you are replacing concepts, I didn’t talk about it. It's called the straw man fallacy.
I spoke about George Ourell's novel as an example to clarify my position .. If you ask 10 Russians what is happening in Russia, you can get 10 different answers. But this does not mean that, for example, most of them will not agree with certain aspects. for example, about the extremely high level of authoritarianism in Russia.
And for some reason you have decided that this part of the population "don't see the world like a 1984 story and aren't that paranoid" I doubt that there was a poll on this particular topic, but even if there had been, it does not invalidate what I said about false statistics based on polls in Russia.

Quote from detail :

Here's good article on this wishful thinking (you may try translating it with Google) written before the war by sociologist Lev Gudkov, who has been making polls since 1980s, and an interview with him. (Another one in English.)

First of all, referring to authority is not an argument.
Second, you don't seem to have read the article yourself, most of it talks about the failure of liberalism in Russia and explains the background and why it happened. Which I mostly agree with. But it is not clear why you referred to it here. I certainly can't call myself a liberal in the modern sense.
You don't need any articles to make an argument, they may be needed in an argument except to prove factual things.
Third, my native language is Russian...because I was born, raised and still live in Russia. I thought that the flag next to the name should be clear but you referred to the article in Russian and you suggest using an translator...

And if you wanted to make an argument about wishful thinking, then why can't I say the same for you? It's your lack of argument here. I am only talking about things that are characteristic of authoritarian and in particular totalitarian systems.


I like to study the history of my country (and not only), philosophy, and geopolitics. And I diligently avoid falling under any kind of propaganda. So yes.. I have some understanding of what is going on in my country.

Quote from detail :

There's a big debate among sociologists on whether or not they make questions correctly, and what kind of bias the methods have. So any layman's claim that this is just "not true" is just a sign of total ignorance. Like a football fan believing he knows better how to coach a team.

I agree, but it doesn't change what I said.

let's raise the level of discussion and after some thesis we will give arguments to this thesis so that it would be clear what we are talking about.

My argument is simple, Russia at the moment is an authoritarian and in many ways a totalitarian country, and what happens in such regimes is characteristic of such regimes. And the main thing is silence, people who do not agree are silent, because they can do nothing else if they do not want to fill the prisons. And Fear of the part of the population that understands the situation. But not only to that part of the population. The lack of rights and freedoms, too, is objectively visible to everyone, and if you are faced with a state in the form of the police or judicial system, then no one can expect justice, and most people understand this. Brainwashing also plays a role. So does the torture system in prisons. And the police state built by Putin which is ready to meet anyone even on a solitary picket.
The silovik in Russia is not the protector of citizens, but the owner of the monopoly of violence, ready to use this violence at any time. i mean we've literally gotten to the point where people are put in jail for making jokes. Fear is understandable, because authoritarianism is based on fear.

All this is a background that forms a special atmosphere. And shapes people. And then there is not just a question of when a person lies or tells the truth. But also, for example, when a person lies to himself.

And I don’t understand why you think that people from this system will decently do work that will show them wrong. It is likely that honest sociological surveys of the population are also being conducted, but if so, then they are not public.

Quote from FIZ :

If you do take ANY complain as offensive, as "being upset", you know why NOBODY ELSE is willing to do any criticism.

For you is perfect as it is SO IT SHOULD BE FOR ANYONE ELSE.
Good way to make people wanting to not say things out loud anymore.

There is difference between complaining and constructive criticism, and sorry, but your post feels very much like the first listed option.
If you come to me and say "I think your mod has wrong drag values" I'll check and if you're right, I'll appreciate your feedback.
But you come and say "I think your mod sucks because it is not frequently updated and doesn't have hundred of fancy skins". That is not constructive criticism, it is just expression of it not being up to your personal standards.

And I nowhere said it is perfect, I had to cut some corners to make it work and already have ideas on how to improve the next championship.

Quote from FIZ :

Very good mods have multiple changes, because they are refined. I can provide example since for you this is new.

For me hundreds of updates being the sign of high quality is definitely a new thing. Almost like I spent half a year building it offline just so I don't have to spam it hundred times to the world.

Quote from FIZ :

Formula category is very important.
More detailed skins are important.

I agree on the category part, however I have already explained why this car is not in the formula category (even if it was a difficult decision).
However I disagree with the desperate need for having fancy skins, I thought this 'game' is about physics simulation in first place, which is where I spent majority of my work at. The car has full skin support and plenty of great community-made skins emerged since then...

Quote from FIZ :

I absolutely am going to not partecipate to such a counter productive event, where the track is not existing, skins are just colours, people drive formulas using handbrakes.

Noone is forcing you to attend the event that had massive impact on the recent evolution of LFS, where tracks are highly accurate replicas of their real counterparts (even if we are essentially racing on a massive parking lot), where the field is very coulourful due to proper skin support,...

Seeing your concern over the singleseater with handbrake, I can imagine that if it was 2013 today, you would accuse me of making shit up, because there is no such thing as an electric-powered formula car and I make the game so 'unrealistic'.

Quote from FIZ :

What you missed in my post is that this mod is below acceptable condition to be included in a proper SIMULATIVE racing competition.
If you are not able to understand the word simulation, that's why you can't comprehend what I said.

Absolutely below acceptable condition indeed. In a world of mods lacking shadows, skin support, proper driver animation, having questionable physics, this one is clearly poorly done.

I think we have different opinion on what 'simulation' atually is.
You seem to feel that simulation is "an attempt to replicate something from the real world as closely as possible at all costs".
Meanwhile to me a simulation is a solution to a question of "what would happen if 'this' was done in the real world?" The simulation uses real-world physics equations and assumptions to tell us how such cars would behave if they did exist (EV singleseaters already exist and while there are not any with handbrake, it is still technologically possible even if no-one has done it and it definitely is not a reason why we should not be allowed to try it in this simulation).
In that case trying to comprehend what you are trying to say is pretty much impossible...

Or should I approach Kerbal Space Program developers and tell them to scrap their work because their imaginative in-game solar system is significantly downscaled and therefore inaccurate, unenjoyable and worthless?

Quote from FIZ :

Can you please do me an example of something on LFS more important than the bigger problems in the world?

Apparently a formula car with handbrake.