I can imagine what was going through that chaps mind who was running out the way... .
FFFFFFAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGHELL!!
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE. RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!
I'm alive. Oh my god. I'm alive. My trousers are slighty damp but I'm alive. Thankyou god. Thankyou.
Edit - Just watched that BMW chase. I loved the woman at the end jumping the hood and bherating the man and only at the end going back to her baby. Which was being rocked by a copper on the hood of a crashed car. Hmmmm, petrol anyone? If that was blighty they would have been outta there faster than you can say 'anyone got a light?'
FFFFFFAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGHELL!!
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE. RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!
I'm alive. Oh my god. I'm alive. My trousers are slighty damp but I'm alive. Thankyou god. Thankyou.
Edit - Just watched that BMW chase. I loved the woman at the end jumping the hood and bherating the man and only at the end going back to her baby. Which was being rocked by a copper on the hood of a crashed car. Hmmmm, petrol anyone? If that was blighty they would have been outta there faster than you can say 'anyone got a light?'
Last edited by Funnybear, .
That was control . . (Apart from the initial) even whilst on his side he was steering into the roll and kept the power on. His co driver must have shat himself.
I know my local airfield (Abingdon. Oxon.) lets cars on every once in a while. They test (did) the jordans and williams F1 cars on the runway. It's still used as a training field and the army logistics core use the main base. But it might be worth giving them a ring.
But thinking about it it might be too busy a place to be cheap. But you never know.
Used to sit on the end of the runway when I was a nipper and watch the Lightenings take off. Straight up at full after burner. Man those things where loud. Plus the last Vulcans wher housed here too. They where a magnificent sight.
Give 'em a ring.
But thinking about it it might be too busy a place to be cheap. But you never know.
Used to sit on the end of the runway when I was a nipper and watch the Lightenings take off. Straight up at full after burner. Man those things where loud. Plus the last Vulcans wher housed here too. They where a magnificent sight.
Give 'em a ring.
I think that the world cup as a whole as been one of the worst world cups I have seen. The behaviour of players, the seemingly bizarre ref'ing, our (England) rather lacklutstre performance.
I think the professional behaviour of the majority of players just brings the sport down. I'm not getting at the reactions of Zidane or Rooney for example but the goading and the winding up that takes place. It's wrong and completly unsportsmen like. If I was Zidane and someone took my familys name in vain the way the Italian did I would have done more than just head butt him. I would have made sure he never played foorball again. All this falling over, name calling theatrical charade is destroying the beautiful game.
It's up to us to turn our backs and show our disapproval. Take away the revenue and the sponsership audience and the playing will soon pick up.
People power. A global movement to bring football back to the common man. Just turn your backs. It will be difficult. And the road will be long one but you have to play the long game. And you never know, put all your support into your local club team and who knows where it could take you.
I think the professional behaviour of the majority of players just brings the sport down. I'm not getting at the reactions of Zidane or Rooney for example but the goading and the winding up that takes place. It's wrong and completly unsportsmen like. If I was Zidane and someone took my familys name in vain the way the Italian did I would have done more than just head butt him. I would have made sure he never played foorball again. All this falling over, name calling theatrical charade is destroying the beautiful game.
It's up to us to turn our backs and show our disapproval. Take away the revenue and the sponsership audience and the playing will soon pick up.
People power. A global movement to bring football back to the common man. Just turn your backs. It will be difficult. And the road will be long one but you have to play the long game. And you never know, put all your support into your local club team and who knows where it could take you.
Yep. But can you wait until I've taken the other 4,684,006 people before you on the list.
I think I need a bigger car.
I think I need a bigger car.
I Think Ronaldo basically sums up everything that I depsise about modern football. Don't get me wrong, i will watch a good game of football with the most avid supported any day, but I refuse to watch poncy, overpaid, underskilled, boufonted, quifed, crybabies fall over all over the pitch. I wanted Ghana to go through. Watching them play was like watching the beautiful game the way god intended. 10 men moving up and down the pitch playing as a team. It was wonderful to see a well honed team play with skill and intteligence. I really wanted to see that kind of football inthe final. But no, we are given the waste of time that is Champion League Millionaires falling over and complaining about a bruised ego.
I think it's revolting. Ronaldo deserves all the derision he gets as does any other diving, crying wimp. You watch a good Rugby League game. Those guys are crying sweat, blood and tears and they still get up, shake the blood from their eys and go in for another hit.
We paid Sven 5 million quid a year, plus all the rest of it. And we get nothing in return. Same as those supposedly proffesional players. They get paid an absolute fortune and what do we get in return. Stroppy teenagers.
Make the world cup into a non professional game. Or players from bottom leagues. Then we might see some playing. Or some bad manners. I can't imagine a docker from the east end taking that kinda shit from Ronaldo. he would have done the job properly. Given that pretty boy a broken nose for his troubles.
This middle of the road playing for the crowd rubbish has to stop. We, the public have to boycot these big league players and start going to more local clubs. Support your home team.
There is too much money involved in the big names and teams. But they wouldn't have that if they didn't have an audience. Thats us. We ahve the power to change these things. One by one, slowly but surely. Just turn your back and find a brighter light.
You do have the power.
I think it's revolting. Ronaldo deserves all the derision he gets as does any other diving, crying wimp. You watch a good Rugby League game. Those guys are crying sweat, blood and tears and they still get up, shake the blood from their eys and go in for another hit.
We paid Sven 5 million quid a year, plus all the rest of it. And we get nothing in return. Same as those supposedly proffesional players. They get paid an absolute fortune and what do we get in return. Stroppy teenagers.
Make the world cup into a non professional game. Or players from bottom leagues. Then we might see some playing. Or some bad manners. I can't imagine a docker from the east end taking that kinda shit from Ronaldo. he would have done the job properly. Given that pretty boy a broken nose for his troubles.
This middle of the road playing for the crowd rubbish has to stop. We, the public have to boycot these big league players and start going to more local clubs. Support your home team.
There is too much money involved in the big names and teams. But they wouldn't have that if they didn't have an audience. Thats us. We ahve the power to change these things. One by one, slowly but surely. Just turn your back and find a brighter light.
You do have the power.
'But I never touched it!!'
The roads would be great if it wasn't for the other people. I think youshould have one designated driver per country. I claim Britain.
*sigh* I try.
It's got cold here again. I think summer is over. Good old british weather. The only country where global warming will take one look and consider it a wasted effort.
It's got cold here again. I think summer is over. Good old british weather. The only country where global warming will take one look and consider it a wasted effort.
You do have to take into account that in LFS you can do stuff that a real car just couldn't do. You try and pull have the stunts that you can do in LFS, like reversing and flicking into first at full throttle no clutch, would just break stuff in real life. So if you are on the very edge of the perfomance envelope or pushing certain attributes then you won't get a real life equavalent because you just can't do those things in real life.
You probable do get tyre wobble in real life but it would be at such a frequency that you couldn't feel it through the suspension. Or you just lump that wobble into the whole suspension, chassis, tyre, big lardy arse gestalt.
Just a LFS defence.
You probable do get tyre wobble in real life but it would be at such a frequency that you couldn't feel it through the suspension. Or you just lump that wobble into the whole suspension, chassis, tyre, big lardy arse gestalt.
Just a LFS defence.
Havn't we done the Moose example already?
Imagination people. We want old ladies, Athletic trees, drunk hunting on a saterday night. . . . or is that just me.
Imagination people. We want old ladies, Athletic trees, drunk hunting on a saterday night. . . . or is that just me.
We do a good line in black ice. Here around oxford we get some of the coldest temps in the country but it's also one of the dryest areas (If you can believe that at the moment) So during the winter we can get snap freezes that put a lovely sheen of ice over the roads. Great thing black ice, you don't know your on it untill you try and turn a corner or stop. When you don't do either you know your on Black ice.
On topic with a point made earlier about stopping on gravel, would it be the same as stopping on snow?
I.e.the gravel builds up a wall in front of the tyre if you lock up, so the tyres dig in, whilst abs would allow you to ride over the top of the gravel? Just a thought.
Still not convinced that locking up your wheels on a race track is in any way beneficial.
On topic with a point made earlier about stopping on gravel, would it be the same as stopping on snow?
I.e.the gravel builds up a wall in front of the tyre if you lock up, so the tyres dig in, whilst abs would allow you to ride over the top of the gravel? Just a thought.
Still not convinced that locking up your wheels on a race track is in any way beneficial.
What tyre pressures where you running?
Yea.Tell me about it. Needed a new split handbrake cable and a seatbelt mount for it's last MOT. Cost me a fortune to get Chevvy parts.Have since found out that it uses a Vauxhall Astra chassis, engine and running gear. Which means all I need is to go downthe breakers and find an astra to bastardise.
Damn thing. It's such a shit car.
But it gets me from A to B. Slowly and with quite alot of body roll.
I can't go below 25mph in my Daewoo Lanos whilst in 5th gear. Or is that the wrong end of the gear stick . . . Get it. Stick, gear stick. See what I did there.
God, I should be on stage.
God, I should be on stage.
Aye. when you could drink a bottle of Chateau di Chasolaite and still drive.
'Whilst 'oldin Bottle.'
'With c'pper asking for a drink.'
'Aye.'
'We used to have to make roads.'
'And pay council for prv'lage of using 'em.'
'You where lucky.'
'Whilst 'oldin Bottle.'
'With c'pper asking for a drink.'
'Aye.'
'We used to have to make roads.'
'And pay council for prv'lage of using 'em.'
'You where lucky.'
He did a Aston Martin too. I watched the episode on UK Gold just the other day. But I do remember the Corvette.
Didn't 'ol Jeza Clarkson take a Aston Martin or something all the way from standing to a 150 in forth gear?
I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. Just thats what he did.
I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. Just thats what he did.
South City is very bumpy. I managed to trounce my PB's there in my FZR just by loosening the suspension.
If you set it too stiff if bounces of the end stops and makes the car go nuts. I think you can see if you are bottoming out the suspension by f10'ing it and watching the suspension ratings. If you get alot of red (It's been a while. But I'm in the general ball park) then your bouncing the end stops.
Just play around with stuff mate. It'll be frustrating but eventually you will find something that works. I tried to think logically through problems but the bumpiness of teh track eluded me for so long because I'd forgotten just how in depth LFS was. You just can't take LFS for granted (Which is a good thing).
If you set it too stiff if bounces of the end stops and makes the car go nuts. I think you can see if you are bottoming out the suspension by f10'ing it and watching the suspension ratings. If you get alot of red (It's been a while. But I'm in the general ball park) then your bouncing the end stops.
Just play around with stuff mate. It'll be frustrating but eventually you will find something that works. I tried to think logically through problems but the bumpiness of teh track eluded me for so long because I'd forgotten just how in depth LFS was. You just can't take LFS for granted (Which is a good thing).
A crank handle and a manual fuel primer. Oh those where the days. Double De-clutching and flys in the teeth.
A gay trip to Bogner and back intime for tea and medals. Chin chin what. Poop poop.
We dreamed of ABS in those days. The only brakes we had was to throw the mother in law out and hoped she snagged a tree on the way past.
Abs. Honestly. What are pedestrians for if not for stopping with.
A gay trip to Bogner and back intime for tea and medals. Chin chin what. Poop poop.
We dreamed of ABS in those days. The only brakes we had was to throw the mother in law out and hoped she snagged a tree on the way past.
Abs. Honestly. What are pedestrians for if not for stopping with.
In real world Physics (Very applicable within LFS) Speed through corners is gained by downforce. But then increase down force too much and you loose straight line speed. But if you keep the speed throught the bendy stuff then you'll have a faster exit speed and you might be able to maintain a faster straight speed with just a few clicks more of downforce.
Oh, the quandries life throes at us.
Also have a look at tyre camber. By pushing the bottom of the tyre out then you allow yourself more lateral force before the tyre looses grip. This could allow you a faster speed throught the 'S's. I wasn't much of a open wheeler so I don't have a definative answer. Just processes that I would use.
Maybe also, your tyre pressure might be a bit on the high side. Too high and you loose mechanical grip, too low and you loose straight line speed.
Do you have and over steer or understeer going through the S's. You might find you can tailor the suspension somewhat to give you the right amount of both to get you through.
And finally but by no means least. Practice. Watch some of the leaders lines through any problem areas you have. You might actually find that some of them are actually slower into a complex than you are, but due to that they can hold a line and power out with a much greater speed defferential. But that also might be a setup issue.
My utmost respect for doing the Setups the fun way instead of 'cheating'. But sometimes you just gotta ask someone. Get to know a fast guy and just ask some advice. Explain you prefer to do it the hard way and make your own sets (A far more satisfactory method. Plus you learn so much that you can take that knowledge to any track/car combo)He may well send you his setup but use it for reference. Adjust a few things that you feel have promise or that you just hadn't thought of and take it from there.
Happy racing. Let's get those PB's dropping . .
Oh, the quandries life throes at us.
Also have a look at tyre camber. By pushing the bottom of the tyre out then you allow yourself more lateral force before the tyre looses grip. This could allow you a faster speed throught the 'S's. I wasn't much of a open wheeler so I don't have a definative answer. Just processes that I would use.
Maybe also, your tyre pressure might be a bit on the high side. Too high and you loose mechanical grip, too low and you loose straight line speed.
Do you have and over steer or understeer going through the S's. You might find you can tailor the suspension somewhat to give you the right amount of both to get you through.
And finally but by no means least. Practice. Watch some of the leaders lines through any problem areas you have. You might actually find that some of them are actually slower into a complex than you are, but due to that they can hold a line and power out with a much greater speed defferential. But that also might be a setup issue.
My utmost respect for doing the Setups the fun way instead of 'cheating'. But sometimes you just gotta ask someone. Get to know a fast guy and just ask some advice. Explain you prefer to do it the hard way and make your own sets (A far more satisfactory method. Plus you learn so much that you can take that knowledge to any track/car combo)He may well send you his setup but use it for reference. Adjust a few things that you feel have promise or that you just hadn't thought of and take it from there.
Happy racing. Let's get those PB's dropping . .
Old ABS fo'shaw wouldn't be much cop. But you look at the Merc C-class which has been running ABS (Or braking assists, aids, whatever. All adds up the same way.) for well over 30 years. Are you telling me that the new Merc can't out break a human? On virtually any road condition? Granted, humans can react to the unknown very well, but they very rarely react in the correct manner. I have the reaction times of Nigel Mansell if what you want during an accident is a stream of imaginative explietives. If you want controlled cadence braking you'll be lucky to get it from me.
Modern ABS with all it's wheel sensors, suspension settings, et al is far more comprehensive than pure man power. ABS allows the lowest common denominator, the school run house wife in the chelsea tractor, to blithly jam the brake pedal to the ground and the AB . . . 'The all wheel control centre' will allow her to make the red light that she so nearly missed without even spilling her coffee or upsetting her minature Dachshund. She doesn't have a clue about the physics involved and wouldn't know what Cadence braking was even if it came up and repeatedle smacked her around the head.
Modern ABS will not treat the car as a generic entity to stop the fastest way possibe. Modern ABS looks at each wheel, yaw factors, steering imputs, G force, Braking input, decibel level of the occupants screams and a myriad of other things that I have no comprehension of. I'll wager that ABS stops faster than me any day. Even old ABS.
Modern ABS with all it's wheel sensors, suspension settings, et al is far more comprehensive than pure man power. ABS allows the lowest common denominator, the school run house wife in the chelsea tractor, to blithly jam the brake pedal to the ground and the AB . . . 'The all wheel control centre' will allow her to make the red light that she so nearly missed without even spilling her coffee or upsetting her minature Dachshund. She doesn't have a clue about the physics involved and wouldn't know what Cadence braking was even if it came up and repeatedle smacked her around the head.
Modern ABS will not treat the car as a generic entity to stop the fastest way possibe. Modern ABS looks at each wheel, yaw factors, steering imputs, G force, Braking input, decibel level of the occupants screams and a myriad of other things that I have no comprehension of. I'll wager that ABS stops faster than me any day. Even old ABS.
When a tyre locks up it looses grip. No grip, no braking. Same as it does laterally when going around a corner though with braking rather than inducing lateral G through cornering, which can be helped by thicker tyres; greater contact patch, with braking you have a longitudinal force. Treat braking like you would be going around a corner. The tyre will loose grip, start skidding, at some stage of the braking process. Once it does it looses maximum decelleration. Similar to the way a car drifts when it's looses lateral grip in a corner. Maximum braking ability is found right at the boundary between grip and skid. This is where the wheel is actually mechanically slowing the car down by applying controlled friction to the axle, once entering a skid the cars momentum easily overcomes any braking friction that the rubber has with the road surface. This is not a good scenario as it is un controllabel exept in a few circumstances.
Rally drivers obviously use loss of grip to increase rotation through the bendy stuff. Rally cars can develop more forward traction than they can by braking so by getting all four (Or two) driven wheels facing the direction of intended travel as fast as possible the better. You couldn't do this without letting the arse have a good 'ol slide around.
Someone mentioned the Nascars locking up the fronts in an effort to regain control. The only way I can see that working is that the brake bias must be such that the rear virtually gets no braking other than a token amount. Resulting in what can be lickened to a trailing anchor on a ship riding storm. The anchor (Rear brakes) trails behind in the current keeping the ship facing into the storm. With the front wheels locked the rear has more braking potential thus slowing the rear down faster than the front. This means that with a bit of careful steerage you can regain control of the front end because it naturally wants to point in the direction of travel.
But other than a few specialised techniques there is no advantage to locking up your tyres under braking.
I have spoken so therefor it must be true.
Laters kids.
Rally drivers obviously use loss of grip to increase rotation through the bendy stuff. Rally cars can develop more forward traction than they can by braking so by getting all four (Or two) driven wheels facing the direction of intended travel as fast as possible the better. You couldn't do this without letting the arse have a good 'ol slide around.
Someone mentioned the Nascars locking up the fronts in an effort to regain control. The only way I can see that working is that the brake bias must be such that the rear virtually gets no braking other than a token amount. Resulting in what can be lickened to a trailing anchor on a ship riding storm. The anchor (Rear brakes) trails behind in the current keeping the ship facing into the storm. With the front wheels locked the rear has more braking potential thus slowing the rear down faster than the front. This means that with a bit of careful steerage you can regain control of the front end because it naturally wants to point in the direction of travel.
But other than a few specialised techniques there is no advantage to locking up your tyres under braking.
I have spoken so therefor it must be true.
Laters kids.
If you have discounted technical issues with your pedals and what not (Have you tried a spell using the keyboard or mouse. If you get the same result then it's your driving. If the mouse or keys are better then it's your pedals.) then try looking at your driving. The old adage of slow in fast out counts for alot.
This may sound backwards but slow down a bit. Take your time going throught the bandy stuff and work on getting your exit speed up. The faster you leave a corner the faster you will be down the straight. Just back off on your entry speed, try and be more technical throught bends rather than hammering on the brake and throwing it through the bends. Throwing the car around will not get you your ideal exit speed.
Also tyre pressures can effect your top speed by some considerable degree too. The higher the pressure the faster your straight line speed but the less mechanical grip you have. The lower the pressure the more mechanical grip but the lower high speed.
So prehaps you need to work on technique and also your setups. It's all about balancing a setup against the track requirements. You might think that Blackwood would be a low downforce circuit with that big long straight but my best times on BW have always been higher downforce to get through the bendy stuff. It's all about balancing everything against the need for speed against the need for mechanical grip.
HBope that helps.
This may sound backwards but slow down a bit. Take your time going throught the bandy stuff and work on getting your exit speed up. The faster you leave a corner the faster you will be down the straight. Just back off on your entry speed, try and be more technical throught bends rather than hammering on the brake and throwing it through the bends. Throwing the car around will not get you your ideal exit speed.
Also tyre pressures can effect your top speed by some considerable degree too. The higher the pressure the faster your straight line speed but the less mechanical grip you have. The lower the pressure the more mechanical grip but the lower high speed.
So prehaps you need to work on technique and also your setups. It's all about balancing a setup against the track requirements. You might think that Blackwood would be a low downforce circuit with that big long straight but my best times on BW have always been higher downforce to get through the bendy stuff. It's all about balancing everything against the need for speed against the need for mechanical grip.
HBope that helps.
A couple of points I'd thought I would share with group.
Hp. I feel that you feel you have religious freedom because you are a christian in a christian nation. (A particularily fundimentally puritanical one because it's founding fathers where . . . oh lookee here, fundimentally puritanical.) Prehaps if you where a hindu, jew or 'gasp', god forbid a Muslim then prehaps you might be viewing America's religious freedom with slightly different eyes.
If a constition or the bill of rights or whatever you use 'screams out chrisianity' then surely you do not live in a state that operates religious freedom. For gods sake man, you havn't even had a black president yet. And it's more likely you will have a woman before a black gets into power. If you did have religious freedom then there would be no religious overtones to any of your constitution. No swearing unto god, no placing your hand on the bible, no sabbath day, no saints days, no teaching ID in schools (Which is, quite frankly, appalling), no churchs, sunday schools, bible classes, coffee mornings, crosses, nuns, monks, catherdrals or convent schools. There would be no mosks, turbans, beards, kosha meat, circumsision, silly little caps, Ji had's, vestal virgins (Or raisins, depending on how your translating it), martardom. No anti abortion, no anti sexual precautions. No strange men in frocks throwing incense around the place.
If you didn't have any of that, then. And only then would you live in a state completly free from religion. Now that would be religious freedom.
But you don't. You live in a Christian country (Could you remind you president please. He seems to have lost his way a bit. He's kinda lingering in the valley of the shadow of death for a bit too long. You tell him and I'll tell our Prime minister. He's another supposed bible basher. But then his judgement rests with god. Which is fare enough but does that give him the excuse to **** everything else up for the rest of us?). England is a christian country. It's laws are based on the 10 commandments. Iraq is Muslim. And yet they (before the wars at least) had a christian community that in percentage terms out wieghed out Muslim community. The very essense of the Islamic faith is of understanding, acceptance and peace. It's us christians that seem to have the biggest problems when it comes to the teachings of Jesus or Mohammid, take your pick.
The middle East is a ****ed up as it is because we have been raping and pillaging them for millenia and it doesn't look to be stopping any time soon.
Hp, you seem to be under the impression that the Middle East is a very bad place to be. Well the Middle East is a very big place for a start and most of the problems are coming from us at the moment.
The Islam umbrella does not hate christianty. In fact Islam and christianity can, have done and do sit very comfortable together with a lot of familiar precepts and teachings that each side would find similarities with. The feeling I get is that Islam feels it has been under attack for many years by the christians. And quite rightly so. I am not saying it's right but I am possible saying that the attack on 9/11 and 7/7 where justified. The nation of islam have no other ways of fighting back for what they see as encrouchment and degrading of their nationality and countries. We, as chirstians, have made sure they have no other ways of fighting back.
But as i have mentioned before. I am not and would not like to be in a position of power and would probable be seeing things from a very different angle if I was.
I live by my own personal faith with my own personal God. My god is not the same as your god and neither is my faith the same as your faith. All I can do as a country boy from Oxfordshire is live the best I can with the means I have. Which ain't a hell of a lot I can tell you.
edit - I have just reread my 9/11, 7/7 'justified' comment. I don't wnat anyone to think that I find the actions of those few desperate men at all commendable. It was wrong, very wrong. And I might revisit my prhasing of that comment in a bit once I've had a think about what I 'm trying to say. But thinking about it, are their actions more justified than the actions of Bush and Blair. The killing of thousands upon thouasands of innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least the desperate few had the guts die for their cause. I doubt if I will see Bush or Blair placing their lives on the line in quite the same way.
Hp. I feel that you feel you have religious freedom because you are a christian in a christian nation. (A particularily fundimentally puritanical one because it's founding fathers where . . . oh lookee here, fundimentally puritanical.) Prehaps if you where a hindu, jew or 'gasp', god forbid a Muslim then prehaps you might be viewing America's religious freedom with slightly different eyes.
If a constition or the bill of rights or whatever you use 'screams out chrisianity' then surely you do not live in a state that operates religious freedom. For gods sake man, you havn't even had a black president yet. And it's more likely you will have a woman before a black gets into power. If you did have religious freedom then there would be no religious overtones to any of your constitution. No swearing unto god, no placing your hand on the bible, no sabbath day, no saints days, no teaching ID in schools (Which is, quite frankly, appalling), no churchs, sunday schools, bible classes, coffee mornings, crosses, nuns, monks, catherdrals or convent schools. There would be no mosks, turbans, beards, kosha meat, circumsision, silly little caps, Ji had's, vestal virgins (Or raisins, depending on how your translating it), martardom. No anti abortion, no anti sexual precautions. No strange men in frocks throwing incense around the place.
If you didn't have any of that, then. And only then would you live in a state completly free from religion. Now that would be religious freedom.
But you don't. You live in a Christian country (Could you remind you president please. He seems to have lost his way a bit. He's kinda lingering in the valley of the shadow of death for a bit too long. You tell him and I'll tell our Prime minister. He's another supposed bible basher. But then his judgement rests with god. Which is fare enough but does that give him the excuse to **** everything else up for the rest of us?). England is a christian country. It's laws are based on the 10 commandments. Iraq is Muslim. And yet they (before the wars at least) had a christian community that in percentage terms out wieghed out Muslim community. The very essense of the Islamic faith is of understanding, acceptance and peace. It's us christians that seem to have the biggest problems when it comes to the teachings of Jesus or Mohammid, take your pick.
The middle East is a ****ed up as it is because we have been raping and pillaging them for millenia and it doesn't look to be stopping any time soon.
Hp, you seem to be under the impression that the Middle East is a very bad place to be. Well the Middle East is a very big place for a start and most of the problems are coming from us at the moment.
The Islam umbrella does not hate christianty. In fact Islam and christianity can, have done and do sit very comfortable together with a lot of familiar precepts and teachings that each side would find similarities with. The feeling I get is that Islam feels it has been under attack for many years by the christians. And quite rightly so. I am not saying it's right but I am possible saying that the attack on 9/11 and 7/7 where justified. The nation of islam have no other ways of fighting back for what they see as encrouchment and degrading of their nationality and countries. We, as chirstians, have made sure they have no other ways of fighting back.
But as i have mentioned before. I am not and would not like to be in a position of power and would probable be seeing things from a very different angle if I was.
I live by my own personal faith with my own personal God. My god is not the same as your god and neither is my faith the same as your faith. All I can do as a country boy from Oxfordshire is live the best I can with the means I have. Which ain't a hell of a lot I can tell you.
edit - I have just reread my 9/11, 7/7 'justified' comment. I don't wnat anyone to think that I find the actions of those few desperate men at all commendable. It was wrong, very wrong. And I might revisit my prhasing of that comment in a bit once I've had a think about what I 'm trying to say. But thinking about it, are their actions more justified than the actions of Bush and Blair. The killing of thousands upon thouasands of innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least the desperate few had the guts die for their cause. I doubt if I will see Bush or Blair placing their lives on the line in quite the same way.
Last edited by Funnybear, .
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